Elitists "META" Plague

Grimlok_S · December 2020

Sets and skills are OP, need be delete!

Buff light attak so DPS can progress DLC dungeon!

Runefang · December 2020

May
Enrage
The
Average

Runefang · December 2020

I believe the OPs point is a valid one (if I understand it). New players, especially healers and tanks, can benefit from a non-meta set up to begin with. It’s called running a selfish set up, where your gear helps you perform your role rather helps the group i.e. staying alive as the tank, sustaining magicka in order to heal.

The meta for non-DD roles is mostly about optimising group buffs to maximise total group damage. That won’t help you clear if you’re not able to stay alive as the tank or sustain as the healer.

But once you start clearing on selfish gear you should transition to the meta because it’s definitely possible and everything becomes easier to clear in meta gear. If healers and tanks provide damage and sustain buffs to DDs it means they can focus on damage over sustain and things die much faster. It’s an exponential curve of damage when comparing everybody in selfish/non-meta gear to everybody in meta gear.

Blaming content creators for not providing these set ups isn’t helpful. Do some quick research and you can come up with your own build.

B0SSzombie · December 2020

This is written like the ramblings of a madman, without an iota of editorial review for bizarre grammar and typos...

Meta isn't the problem. Look up dominant strategy in game theory. People will use the best stuff most commonly, simple as that.

Dungeons and Trials fail not because people don't have experience, but because they refuse to learn. Doesn't matter what set a person has, if they're lazy and impatient, they won't try to learn the you need to keep the Ogres separate in Scalecaller Peak.

The hardest content in this game requires teamwork, synergy, and patience. Those failures fall upon a player, not a set of gear.

JimmyJuJu · December 2020

Blackbird_V wrote: »

TL;DR: Reason why a lot of parties fail is because people are bad; don't want to learn, or in midst of learning; have awful situational awareness; think they can get carried; don't want to put effort in and hope devs lower the ceiling making everything easy-mode.

Man you really hit the nail on the head. Indeed, this is a life lesson and key reasons why some people are complete failures in life. No awareness. Lower the bar. Rely on/blame others. Always looking for easy-mode.

Massive_Stain · December 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Nah, what the real issue is are those that deny folk access to their grp for dungeon/trial X until such time they have cleared dungeon/trial X. Makes zero sense. You can't do the dungeon until you've done the dungeon? WTF? The best way to learn how to do stuff is by doing stuff, but a lot of folk deny others this opportunity then complain when they get someone they perceive as a chump in their grp.

It's all a vicious cycle because those folk who are excluded tend to be the ones who exclude others down the line because they themselves were once excluded. It's hilarious really.

And that is why guilds exist. There are many types, but some like mine, focus on helping new players learn how to play better, whether it be mechanics, gear, rotations or making a bankload of gold. Random PUG's are not a good way to learn how to play, especially if you don't know what you are doing. A guild group who is willing to help you and deal with missteps patiently, is a much better experience for everyone all around. The newer player learns, the guildies feel like they helped, win/win.

I was in a lot of clans and the same problem - do people different in clans ?

There are really exp, others will try to dps and take good dps people to raid.

What is it all for ? To form own statics to farm some content.
Do they really want to learn people ? Do you see a lot of really good players with all trials pass take low dps low level group who want to learn and play it by mechaniks of the trial ? Exept us or some small groups of people the task of all clans is:
Find 1-2 people in open raids to farm gear with them and try to dps trial you need after that. They do not trully learn people.

If you know to much you can walk away, so you must not know to much - that is how a lot of clans works

Do not tell me about "want to help like" people.

There really are good people who want to help, that even give something to make others happy.

But unfortunatly some people just use it and it do not last long.

Others just look for new bodys to there staticks. That will not walk away.

If you join multiple groups and exp the same problem, it might be time to examine your own build.

Drdeath20 · December 2020

Most
Effective
Tactic
Available

People complaining about this really need to rethink their position.

idk · December 2020

Runefang wrote: »

I believe the OPs point is a valid one (if I understand it). New players, especially healers and tanks, can benefit from a non-meta set up to begin with. It’s called running a selfish set up, where your gear helps you perform your role rather helps the group i.e. staying alive as the tank, sustaining magicka in order to heal.

The meta for non-DD roles is mostly about optimising group buffs to maximise total group damage. That won’t help you clear if you’re not able to stay alive as the tank or sustain as the healer.

But once you start clearing on selfish gear you should transition to the meta because it’s definitely possible and everything becomes easier to clear in meta gear. If healers and tanks provide damage and sustain buffs to DDs it means they can focus on damage over sustain and things die much faster. It’s an exponential curve of damage when comparing everybody in selfish/non-meta gear to everybody in meta gear.

Blaming content creators for not providing these set ups isn’t helpful. Do some quick research and you can come up with your own build.

Criticism of the best builds is not the appropriate judgment. The criticism appropriately lies with the raid leader. It is their job to find solutions to what plagues the group.

That is part of what leadership is about. Unfortunately, there are leaders, both guild and raid, that are not such great leaders.

Paramedicus · December 2020

I agree with OP that newish players shouldnt be forced to run meta (ie alkosh/torug/yoln pre nerf on tank) if other sets may work better. Tho I fail to see how it is content creators fault (tho maybe someone should slap Alcast for using Torug in one of beginner tank builds).

Prob lays in ignorance (you can be ignorant even if you are end game player). This reminded me my 1st CT hm where one of DDs (good dps and all) insisted that tank should wear damage boosting sets, while it was obvious that team was struggling because of aoe dmg and prob with sustain during late 'red tornado phases'.

Moar dps just isnt always the best answer.

highkingnm · December 2020

As others have said, the main reason people die is lack of awareness and ability to play basic mechanics. To give an example of how it is not gear related, go to March of Sacrifices with 5 random groups and see how many people manage to die in the "don't stand in stupid" phases in the Tarcyr fight. The other day I must have explained it with the tank about 15 times and the healer and DPS still couldn't work out how to do it. Don't stand in red doesn't need a video from high-end players to teach you. Nor should you need to be taught interrupt when the prompt comes up the first 50 or so times you can interrupt.

It is not the fault of people making build videos that people cannot be bothered to learn mechanics. When I was stuck in a 12-week vMoL prog, there were always at least two people who, despite being told not to run through the centre of the twins, did so. Ones who were told to focus down adds on some runs and would just parse on the boss.

This game is filled with people who do not want to learn anything other than how to parse. It's not content creators to blame, it's the stubbornness of so many players to refuse to learn.

Jeremy · December 2020

Paramedicus wrote: »

I agree with OP that newish players shouldnt be forced to run meta (ie alkosh/torug/yoln pre nerf on tank) if other sets may work better. Tho I fail to see how it is content creators fault (tho maybe someone should slap Alcast for using Torug in one of beginner tank builds).

Prob lays in ignorance (you can be ignorant even if you are end game player). This reminded me my 1st CT hm where one of DDs (good dps and all) insisted that tank should wear damage boosting sets, while it was obvious that team was struggling because of aoe dmg and prob with sustain during late 'red tornado phases'.

Moar dps just isnt always the best answer.

True. People should play the builds that suit them best. Always gravitating towards the "meta" is not always the best option - especially in the case of DPS since playing builds that maximize DPS often rely on quick reflexes and experience (as well as addons) to stay alive and you're not going to be doing much damage if you're dead.

Kwoung · December 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Nah, what the real issue is are those that deny folk access to their grp for dungeon/trial X until such time they have cleared dungeon/trial X. Makes zero sense. You can't do the dungeon until you've done the dungeon? WTF? The best way to learn how to do stuff is by doing stuff, but a lot of folk deny others this opportunity then complain when they get someone they perceive as a chump in their grp.

It's all a vicious cycle because those folk who are excluded tend to be the ones who exclude others down the line because they themselves were once excluded. It's hilarious really.

And that is why guilds exist. There are many types, but some like mine, focus on helping new players learn how to play better, whether it be mechanics, gear, rotations or making a bankload of gold. Random PUG's are not a good way to learn how to play, especially if you don't know what you are doing. A guild group who is willing to help you and deal with missteps patiently, is a much better experience for everyone all around. The newer player learns, the guildies feel like they helped, win/win.

I was in a lot of clans and the same problem - do people different in clans ?

There are really exp, others will try to dps and take good dps people to raid.

What is it all for ? To form own statics to farm some content.
Do they really want to learn people ? Do you see a lot of really good players with all trials pass take low dps low level group who want to learn and play it by mechaniks of the trial ? Exept us or some small groups of people the task of all clans is:
Find 1-2 people in open raids to farm gear with them and try to dps trial you need after that. They do not trully learn people.

If you know to much you can walk away, so you must not know to much - that is how a lot of clans works

Do not tell me about "want to help like" people.

There really are good people who want to help, that even give something to make others happy.

But unfortunatly some people just use it and it do not last long.

Others just look for new bodys to there staticks. That will not walk away.

You sound pretty negative and jaded if I am deciphering your comments correctly. No, many Guilds (WOW has Clans) help people out. My guild runs 1-5 training trials a week for new players who have just leveled up. YOU are expected to join Discord to listen to instructions, hear the mechanics get explained so you know what to do, and we succeed pretty much every time. We don't care for statistics FYI, we do it to help people learn and get the "meta" gear for their builds, and we all have a blast doing it. Our only requirement is be level 50 to come on trials, gear doesn't matter, because by the time we are done you will have decent gear, and no, we aren't really carrying the new members, we are teaching them how to do it themselves.

Choucroute · December 2020

@AyaDark

Sustain isn't the DPS' job, it's the supports. That's why they're called supports.
As a support healer it means you need to heal the tank and the DPS constantly (with heals over times), you give them resources (with arena weapons, more than enough orbs, monster sets, and possibly 5-pieces sustain sets (they are not a necessity for a support to help with sustain though)), you debuff the targets and buff your allies.
Why heavy attack when you can do more damage by using skills, light attacks, and without caring about your sustain?
I'm a main healer, I am proud when my DPS and tanks claim they had seriously no sustain issues, when they didn't have to think about it because they were given more than enough resources back from me. And it's just how it should be.
Everybody should be doing their job, period.

You keep talking about people and group who don't do their jobs, who aren't useful. If they're not useful, you teach them. If they refuse to learn, get defensive or mad, then just don't run with them. If you play a coop game but refuse to cooperate, then you shouldn't group with others, and others shouldn't have to deal with your selfishness. That's all.
When you have all those sets and skills meant for supports to help the DD damage, kill and sustain, why would it be the DD's job to sustain? That makes absolutely no sense. It's sabotaging yourself because you're too lazy to learn how to play your role and class like it was supposed to be.
I'm not even talking about top tier meta sets: it's just basic strategy of the game.
With your logic, why even bring a healer if all the DDs slot self-heals, sustain themselves and debuff? That's literally all a healer has to do.
A healer doesn't need to 100% focus on a tank to heal them. Tanks come with resistances buffs, mitigation and great passives to help them. They can survive hits with Illustrious alone on them. I would know, I also tank.
A newbie tank will need extra care, and that's fine. They can just speak up about it, the healer will adapt. If the tank fails and causes a wipe, people can go over what needs to be done. As a tank, what matters the most is knowing the mechanics. So you teach them the mechanics and most of all how to deal with them as a tank.
You actually learn by wiping. You check what killed you, you remember what you did before that and ask yourself "What could I have done to prevent my death? What could have my team done?"
That's how you improve. Not only in ESO, but in life in general.
There's no way in hell anybody would get trifecta trial clears if nobody ever thought about that. It's not that people are born with a talent for clearing content, you know. They wipe - A LOT - but they learn from it. They think about what can they do better. They don't find excuses, they admit "I [snip] up", they learn and grow from it.
That's why trifecta progs can take 1 or 2 months of doing the trial once, twice, thrice a week before they can show off their hard-earned title. They work for it, they admit their mistakes and improve.

If you are a mega AOE build, why would you test it on a single target enemy, like the trial dummy or a boss? That makes absolutely no sense. When I play against several enemies (including big bosses that come in numbers) then I use AOE build. When my enemy is all alone for most of the fight, I go single target. You should adapt your build to your enemy, that's logical.
Test your AOE build in a house where there are 10-20 3M or 6M dummies, that's what everybody else does.
You keep making comparisons and giving examples that make no sense, honestly.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

jm42 · December 2020

Noobs can't pass trials because they don't know mechs, not because of sets. And yes, if you don't pass DPS check, you can not go to vet trial, you can call it whatever you want if it hwlps you to find excuses to not improve your chars

AyaDark · December 2020

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Most
Effective
Tactic
Available

People complaining about this really need to rethink their position.

It was not Most Effective for more than 2years.

Most promoted yes - MPTA than.

Jaimeh · December 2020

You should always adjust and tweak builds, whether it's pve or pvp, to your own playstyle, needs, and skill. Good players will still be good regardless of a build--the build just gives them optimal results. For less skilled players, the opposite is true: that same build might be detrimental to them. And not just skill: you might need to play with 1 bar, with pushing less buttons for mobility issues, or have a very high ping, etc., so for example dynamic weapon swapping might not work for you, therefore a rotation like this that you find online will not work. If you copy a build, go and do a content, and if you see that you die easily and can't sustain, then obviously this build need tweaking. It's awesome there's so many builds and guides out there nowadays, but the people who write them can't know the specifics of every single player who might read them, so it's up to you to take away what workds and then change what doesn't. For example, you read up on a build that has a proc on the back bar, but you can't reliably swap to proc it on cooldown, so the back bar set ends up not being really useful, therefore the build will not work as intended, then it's not a good idea to keep that back bar set, and it would be better to change it up.

AyaDark · December 2020

By the way - To many DD say about How effective this are, what tank and healers must wear.

But do you play Healer or Tank yourself ?

Or it is a trend now to learn people to play roles you even do not ever play ?

Who sad that your sustain is other members job ?

All you need to do just do dps and stay alive. It is easy task !
Other members have the same or more important job than you do.
Why do they need to care about Your sustain ? Becouse it is comfortable for you, DD is twice more than others and DD have more votes ?

I just show that because if healers must sustain you, other DD lose 2+ sets and a lot of dps, so becouse of you other lose dps.

The difference is that this game play is hardly promoted.

For more than 3 years people are comfortable to play like they play before. Now time is different, more sets and ability to support. But all you do play like 3 years old META and say that it is most effective.

It is 2 more years not even near most effective.

It is game play that you are accostomed and comfortable to play.

Nothing more.

AyaDark · December 2020

As an example of other game:
We had 2 servers that DPS boss.
10 people party. All difference was that 1 server kills it on left other on right side.

When 2 servers => to 1, that DDDps people can not DPS boss becouse can not agree what is right kill it on left or right side and both think that they knows better.

You are nothing more different for me then they are.

The difference is that we kill boss for party for 10 people with 2 of us by mechanick if party can not dps and even if it all was dead.

The same here.

We can duo a lot of DLC hms and do a lot of vtrials with half of the group.

Because we know mechaniks and do nechaniks of content and can pass it with no skip.

It is how games are supposed to play - do content, do not skip it with DPS.

Some times we do skip, but after 100500 passes of the same with same group.

To go skip to new content is bad idea.

The same for your gear !

What is difference if you do 70 k dps with it and top player do 90k ?

You will newer do 90 k becouse of worse ping and fps.

What is the point if all of this if you can do the same 70 k with better sustain, better live ?

Yes some 100 fps guy will not do 90k in this build but - for you with your 60 k fps damage is the same !

But in this you will live better.

For that guys with DPS 90 k it us 1 big add on tank, how do you think tank must stand in MPTA gear with you if it us 3 big adds on him ?

You ask others to play better than people in best group, but you are not that good, do you not understand it ?

I do not think that that PRO tank sustain in your group, he will be even more dead with you - so how do you learn from wipes ?

Some one say about dark soul, where you learn from wipes, but will you learn from others mistake ?

Will you learn if on 75% boss you will get disconect of your gamepad ?

You learn till this 25% you pass and stuck there.

Furst if all you must do pass a lot of times in the same group and only than think for your iwn how to make run better.

It is freak idea to take others party game style and try to rework all peoples play for that.

It is monkey like play. Copy will never be better than original, remember ?

Zodiarkslayer · December 2020

@AyaDark <applause>

I is simply a fact, that one only gets better with experience.
It is a sad truth, that a lot of people think they are good without knowing they are not.
It is also a fact, that "META man" videos on Youtube promote the sentiment of only META is good.
Combine these three facts and one gets an explosive mix, and I suspect you recently got ignited.

The Elitists "META" Plague is a result of immature people being subject to this explosive mix, in my opinion. And all in a game that does not provide a solid basis for self learning and giving no neutral, quantifiable feedback (as in: "your dungeonscore is X!"). On the other side that is very hard to implement in a non linear game, where progression is self controlled and not checked by a fix system.

To me Elitists are just people with a lack of character and social skills. I am experienced (old

) enough to not let that bother me. I ignore and move on.

On a second remark to these "META man" Videos: They are bad, really bad for the playerbase, especially new players. The reason being, that they put entertainment (infotainment?) and money in the system of learning through "experience and evaluation", ultimately hindering self progress. That corrupts the system and "META man" has a made a buck on the side.

There is a video by Alcast, where he comments on a popular twitch streamer's rage quit in vMA. In that video he pretty much rants about that himself. Especially how the expectation to be a top player without time and dedication is ridiculous. And he is one of these "META men".

jm42 · December 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

But do you play Healer or Tank yourself ?

Or it is a trend now to learn people to play roles you even do not ever play ?

Who sad that your sustain is other members job ?

All you need to do just do dps and stay alive. It is easy task !
Other members have the same or more important job than you do.
Why do they need to care about Your sustain ? Becouse it is comfortable for you, DD is twice more than others and DD have more votes ?

I think the discussion can be closed after that. this game and it's party gameplay and roles just are not for you

AyaDark · December 2020

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@AyaDark <applause>

I is simply a fact, that one only gets better with experience.
It is a sad truth, that a lot of people think they are good without knowing they are not.
It is also a fact, that "META man" videos on Youtube promote the sentiment of only META is good.
Combine these three facts and one gets an explosive mix, and I suspect you recently got ignited.

The Elitists "META" Plague is a result of immature people being subject to this explosive mix, in my opinion. And all in a game that does not provide a solid basis for self learning and giving no neutral, quantifiable feedback (as in: "your dungeonscore is X!"). On the other side that is very hard to implement in a non linear game, where progression is self controlled and not checked by a fix system.

To me Elitists are just people with a lack of character and social skills. I am experienced (old ) enough to not let that bother me. I ignore and move on.

On a second remark to these "META man" Videos: They are bad, really bad for the playerbase, especially new players. The reason being, that they put entertainment (infotainment?) and money in the system of learning through "experience and evaluation", ultimately hindering self progress. That corrupts the system and "META man" has a made a buck on the side.

There is a video by Alcast, where he comments on a popular twitch streamer's rage quit in vMA. In that video he pretty much rants about that himself. Especially how the expectation to be a top player without time and dedication is ridiculous. And he is one of these "META men".

Ok, what did you pass in your opinion ?
What problems did you have due it ?
What did you do better to pass and how did you solve problems that you had ?

It is for me to understand do you really have YOUR or some META opinion.

AyaDark · December 2020

jm42 wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

But do you play Healer or Tank yourself ?

Or it is a trend now to learn people to play roles you even do not ever play ?

Who sad that your sustain is other members job ?

All you need to do just do dps and stay alive. It is easy task !
Other members have the same or more important job than you do.
Why do they need to care about Your sustain ? Becouse it is comfortable for you, DD is twice more than others and DD have more votes ?

I think the discussion can be closed after that. this game and it's party gameplay and roles just are not for you

I may be have more game exp than you do, based on roles in different games, so what makes you to think that you know better ?

Or it is becouse i say some think different from your opinion ?

I do not see anyconstructive or examples in your topic.

I can easely argument all that i say and i do.

Dragonslayerdovakiin · December 2020

Firstly i would like to say i perhaps do not understand the premise of this thread, but i will comment on my assumption (that you, meaning the OP) think content creators are at fault for showcasing what the best builds/gear are and people then asking people to use that? it depends mostly on the content you are doing in my opinion but first several things:

Content creators do theory crafting and testing which is something alot of players do not have time for since they have real lives, the content creators more often than not have youtube/other means as their way of income and therefore have the time/reason to spend time testing things such as what is best, "meta" is a natural byproduct of a game system and will always exist, there cannot be a game like an MMO without meta, unless sets, etc are just different visuals and stats are all the same (which would be boring and counterproductive to gameplay systems like gear farming) that is not to say that meta is the ONLY way to play, those for example in general gameplay who say someone cannot DD if they dont use siroria and mother's sorry for example are wrong, however those sets are some of the BEST sets and higher dps is easier to attain as a result, however for most people in general in the game you wont encounter people telling you what to wear, however in the endgame that is where things change, i called the following things endgame: vet dlc dungeons (especially HM) specifically the ones which released after IC, vet trials (mainly the dlc ones) these instances are different and different rules apply, the endgame content is where you should naturally progress to when you have gotten very good at the game in your respective role, it is fully understandable and in instances completely acceptable to expect people to wear certain gear/use certain skills, a great example is tanks: if you join a vet trial like.....vHoF it is fully acceptable for the raid lead/group to expect you to wear group buff sets such as alkosh, yolna, torugs, worm, hircine, PA, etc since these sets provide a MASSIVE amount of help to the group and if you are doing this level of content it is not unreasonable for people to expect you to wear this gear, now things are SLIGHTLY different for damage dealers as there is not as much pressure set wise unless you are designated EC, etc buff dd, except in that case dds have alot more freedom and i would say only in the most endgame of endgame (scorepushing groups, etc) do you NEED to wear specific gear/use specific skills, however a raid lead expecting you to use gear/skills which allow you to achieve a certain amount of dps is not unreasonable, and i KNOW you can get good dps without meta sets and if you get the results people should not (and usually are not correct) to "force" you to change, i know a mag DK player who uses Z'ens and also uses DK chain as spammable (off-meta, but his sustain is epic and his dps is more than enough).

so to sum up the discussion it really depends on what level of content you are doing, if someone tells you that you need meta gear for a normal dungeon.......well thats totally wrong and unessisary, however as i said endgame is different story

also sorry i apparently dont know about paragraphs xD

AyaDark · December 2020

jm42 wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

But do you play Healer or Tank yourself ?

Or it is a trend now to learn people to play roles you even do not ever play ?

Who sad that your sustain is other members job ?

All you need to do just do dps and stay alive. It is easy task !
Other members have the same or more important job than you do.
Why do they need to care about Your sustain ? Becouse it is comfortable for you, DD is twice more than others and DD have more votes ?

I think the discussion can be closed after that. this game and it's party gameplay and roles just are not for you

And as example:
Lets start from:
1) DD can do dps 2 different ways - own dps or dps + buffs/debuffs. You can not put all sets on heals and tank already. So will you as dd put dps sets on ? Will you go do party mechanik if other dps do more dps and if he do not lose mech ?
2) As a healer will you support DD or Tank if you see both have problems, who will you chouse dead ? Tank for party survive or dd for more dps ?
3) To support group is not as simple, would you like people live not only becouse of you or becouse themselves to ?
4) As a tank will you go with group you are more comfortable to play ? Or with better dps? If with better dps what is the point for you to playwith 80+ k dps guy if he can go to 95k + party ? It will be much easy for him to live there too ?
If you like more comfortable play and party do less damage, he need better sustain. Where will you send DD in this situation if he ask top partys sets and he do not play as top partys DD ?
5) If there are DD who can self sustain and that can not - why you need to support 1 or others ?
If you can buff more dps to self sustainers and do less work with the same dps in raid with them, what is the point for you as support do more work ?
6) If party member get crash (we have perfect game -no crashs/lags,bugs),so this situation will newer happen - but who have more chanse to pass ?More self sustained or group that can not play with out some member ?
7) Who have morechance to pass one whoneed only him work with nomistake or one, who needs his and other party member do no mistake ?

Support is support - it makes your dps better, gives you buffs. It is not something you can not pass with out.

Tank is role, that can wipe your rade. So is not is just stupid to make his chance to wipe you more ?

You can put support sets on tank, if you do not run score what is difference 2-4% ?

In normal sets tanks canstand forewer, in supports sets, what is situation to make 5 minutes fight less for 20 seconds be more alive for him and group ?

If it us 1 minute fight tank will not die DD can live with boss for short time. If you have a long fight it is no difference in 4-5 seconds for ranks, he need to live

How DD can do tanks meta ? People who do not play role ?
May Tanks will do it ? It is desrespect for this role ! Tanks know better what and where he have to put on !

Party will not see difference if you kick 1 DD, but if you remove 1 tank it will be much different !

And do you have a lot of tanks now ? Because full role do not like to play with you and your meta.

Pauwer · December 2020

Good players make hard content look easy on videos. Us mortals will fail when trying to copy.

Buuut... when im in a pvp group with a known streamer, the game really seems to be easier *puts on a tinfoil hat*

Starlight_Whisper · December 2020

I want proof that you can lack healing on a healer build.

Zodiarkslayer · December 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@AyaDark <applause>

I is simply a fact, that one only gets better with experience.
It is a sad truth, that a lot of people think they are good without knowing they are not.
It is also a fact, that "META man" videos on Youtube promote the sentiment of only META is good.
Combine these three facts and one gets an explosive mix, and I suspect you recently got ignited.

The Elitists "META" Plague is a result of immature people being subject to this explosive mix, in my opinion. And all in a game that does not provide a solid basis for self learning and giving no neutral, quantifiable feedback (as in: "your dungeonscore is X!"). On the other side that is very hard to implement in a non linear game, where progression is self controlled and not checked by a fix system.

To me Elitists are just people with a lack of character and social skills. I am experienced (old ) enough to not let that bother me. I ignore and move on.

On a second remark to these "META man" Videos: They are bad, really bad for the playerbase, especially new players. The reason being, that they put entertainment (infotainment?) and money in the system of learning through "experience and evaluation", ultimately hindering self progress. That corrupts the system and "META man" has a made a buck on the side.

There is a video by Alcast, where he comments on a popular twitch streamer's rage quit in vMA. In that video he pretty much rants about that himself. Especially how the expectation to be a top player without time and dedication is ridiculous. And he is one of these "META men".

Ok, what did you pass in your opinion ?
What problems did you have due it ?
What did you do better to pass and how did you solve problems that you had ?

It is for me to understand do you really have YOUR or some META opinion.

I am Sorry, but I do not understand your questions.

I have no problem with META. It is a necessity. The maximum that is possible at the moment.

What is the problem is the the fact, that players do only see META as a set of equipment, because that is what is changing every other patch. But it is much more! It is at least 80% player experience and skill. That requirement just doesn't change with the patches!

You still need to have hundreds of hours in Trials and Dungeons.
You still need to have intimate knowledge of mechanics.
You still need to have situational awareness.
You still need to have the physical and mental abilities for LA weaving.
You still need to have ...

"META man" Videos on Youtube promote the impression, that it is only gear and rotation, that is META. Entirely disregarding the experience Factor. And thus ulltimatly corrupting (new) players.

I hope I made my point clearly this time!

Belegnole · December 2020

You know, I just love these types of threads. Because it's like you're all right and you're all wrong.

Take this thread. There are elitists that play the game. That's a fact and anyone who says that there are not is delusional. However, there are also bad players. I would hazard a guess that there are a heck of a lot more bad players than elitists. But, there are a number of types of bad players. Such as new, uneducated, lazy, determined to play their way (you know, the way that doesn't work so well), bad gear, bad builds... etc.

Now the biggest stumbling block for most newer players is a combination of knowledge and gear. With enough time and a bit of internet searching they can find some knowledge, but getting that gear can be a bit more difficult. Especially without a bit of help getting the better gear from vet dungeons.

That said there are a number of guilds and individuals that try to help needy players get better and get better gear. Like just about anyone that has tried to mentor others they will run into those who cannot be helped. They either just don't get it, resent your trying to help, or something else. Sometimes you're in the middle of a run and either you boot someone or you cut and run. I had a young Leroy Jenkins tonight. After he caused everyone but myself in the group to die I quickly explained why I was the only one left standing. It helped that he was in voice chat with me, but he stopped running off on his own. So some people can be taught and some can't.

Some guilds and again individuals go out of their way to help or make gear for people that need it as well. This along with the tutoring has got to be one of the best gifts that you can give another player.

But then unfortunately we do have those who are not inclined to help. Are not cut out to be teachers, mentors, or anything of the sort. Heck, I'm not always in the mood to teach someone how to tie their shoes. Now add to that, those who really are elitists and you have a wall that some new people run into over and over.

For the new guy who's trying to figure things out, running into an elitist in a dungeon can be a huge negative. Just like the friendly guild is a huge plus.

Firstmep · December 2020

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@AyaDark <applause>

I is simply a fact, that one only gets better with experience.
It is a sad truth, that a lot of people think they are good without knowing they are not.
It is also a fact, that "META man" videos on Youtube promote the sentiment of only META is good.
Combine these three facts and one gets an explosive mix, and I suspect you recently got ignited.

The Elitists "META" Plague is a result of immature people being subject to this explosive mix, in my opinion. And all in a game that does not provide a solid basis for self learning and giving no neutral, quantifiable feedback (as in: "your dungeonscore is X!"). On the other side that is very hard to implement in a non linear game, where progression is self controlled and not checked by a fix system.

To me Elitists are just people with a lack of character and social skills. I am experienced (old ) enough to not let that bother me. I ignore and move on.

On a second remark to these "META man" Videos: They are bad, really bad for the playerbase, especially new players. The reason being, that they put entertainment (infotainment?) and money in the system of learning through "experience and evaluation", ultimately hindering self progress. That corrupts the system and "META man" has a made a buck on the side.

There is a video by Alcast, where he comments on a popular twitch streamer's rage quit in vMA. In that video he pretty much rants about that himself. Especially how the expectation to be a top player without time and dedication is ridiculous. And he is one of these "META men".

Ok, what did you pass in your opinion ?
What problems did you have due it ?
What did you do better to pass and how did you solve problems that you had ?

It is for me to understand do you really have YOUR or some META opinion.

I am Sorry, but I do not understand your questions.

I have no problem with META. It is a necessity. The maximum that is possible at the moment.

What is the problem is the the fact, that players do only see META as a set of equipment, because that is what is changing every other patch. But it is much more! It is at least 80% player experience and skill. That requirement just doesn't change with the patches!

You still need to have hundreds of hours in Trials and Dungeons.
You still need to have intimate knowledge of mechanics.
You still need to have situational awareness.
You still need to have the physical and mental abilities for LA weaving.
You still need to have ...

"META man" Videos on Youtube promote the impression, that it is only gear and rotation, that is META. Entirely disregarding the experience Factor. And thus ulltimatly corrupting (new) players.

I hope I made my point clearly this time!

That may be your impression, if you go Alcasts website he often has multiple sets of gear that all work.
If people blindly copy a meta trial build for a tank ans take it to 4 man content without understanding the build, or why certain gear is used, that's their fault, not the content creators.
Eso has a difficulty curve, but there is no dividing factor as to when players can start doing x content, since gear progression isn't as linear as in other games.
Experience and good mechanics are more important than gear.
Even nowadays you can throw on hundings agility on a Stam DD and do more dps than 90% of the players using the most meta sets.
Alcast and many other content creators have beginner guides, detailed explanations of mechanics for every boss fight in the game etc.

If anyone Ignores all that, and then jumps ahead to the endgame meta builds, and then fails, that's on them, not on the content creators.
Sorry if Alcast doesnt hold your hand personally while you learn to play the game.

Imagine blaming content creators, lol.

Try playing the game without relying on outside advice from other people or copying others builds.
Ive been doing it since launch, and I've cleared pretty much all difficult content in this game, and I'm pretty decent at pvp too.

NEMESIS_97 · December 2020

thegreat_one wrote: »

And then the DPS spawn a Deadroth and that MOFO runs right over my toon, Takes up my entire screen, and I can't see the Selenes proc that killed me right as she dies. Luckily I got the No death run still.

If on pc..suggesting codes combat alert. Will help in situations when dps drops on your face maws and atro ulti