Should ESO make an option to turn off Mystery Meat/Mudballs, etc

scorpius2k1 · November 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Getting mudballed a few times in cities or other busy areas doesn't constitute harassment.
Provide some proof if it is otherwise so!

Doing it repeatedly to stop someone from opening a safebox or chest does. Especially when they are sending you offensive whispers at the same time. And I will provide proof to ZoS when I file a complaint.

If that is what's happening to you then I absolutely agree, it's exactly what you should do! It's entirely just as unfair on the other side of the fence that another case of "the few ruining it for the many" should be allowed to take something fun out of the game. This thread is more about harassment in general than just a game feature, aka "mudballs". The ones who are actually harassing players should be dealt with accordingly (and this far extends past just a mudballing). I would think in a game as big as ESO there would be more moderator/admin presence in-game, instead, it is seemingly only here on the forums. Handicapping a game feature wont stop anything, it will just start again with something else; correct the the problem at the source which is the player itself. That is the point here, and thus the bigger problem at hand.

luen79rwb17_ESO · November 2020

[snip] Turning off in game stuff just because you're getting harrassed is screwing the rest of the 99.9% of the player base just because someone is griefing you. Report, block, move to one of the other dozens of zones and get over it. The solution is faster than making a whole thread about it. Oh and the poll is flawed and biased.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

idk · November 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Did you miss the part that porting out has just the same effect, and is already in the game.

So your "solution" is to stop what you are doing and leave rather than stop the harassment? No. I have the right to do what I want where I want and no other player has the right to run me off.

This question does bring up a good point. With the new TOS update concerning Harassment Zos has specifically acknowledged that under certain circumstances mudballs can be considered harassment.

Just because someone calls it harassment does not make it harassment. It is something Zos would review and consider on a case by case basis. It also may require telling the person to cease and desist, but not necessarily.

All of us on PC have, or should have, the ability to grab the previous X minutes of gameplay. That can serve as powerful evidence if the person truly crossed the line. It can also be personally damming if the accuser was actually part of it as Zos can see more than just what we send them. BTW, I think console can grab footage as well but not positive.

SilverBride · November 2020

Get rid of the interactions entirely

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

So your "solution" is the other person has no right to throw mudballs at you at all, a feature that is built into the game? The logic has to work both ways.

Any feature that allows other players to interact with your character should be implemented with caution, because this opens a big window for harassment to occur.

I've been hit while running through town and it wasn't a big deal because they only did it once, and not while I was doing anything it would disrupt. But I've also been harassed by a random player, and repeatedly annoyed with it by a friend who thought it was funny to keep doing it when asked to stop.

This is why a toggle to stop the one being hit from even noticing it would be nice because it would stop the harassment factor. Although personally I'd like to see these just removed.

Sephyr · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Now depending on where you are, you may not have to deal with this menace. But its a blight on our beautiful cities, rotton meat in front of every daily turn in, and quest giver, etc. Its a low-key form of harassment, and after repeated appeals to stop, the situation has only gotten worse.

How convenient you left off the option to say no. Lol. Seems like a biased poll? (Memeing mainly, no worries. I know not being able to edit sucks.)

Also the correct answer is no.

Absolutely a biased topic.

Also, NO to the poll.

Personally, I think the poll could've used more options because it's not so much the 'being bullied' part on why I voted yes. Being pelted repeatedly with mudballs doesn't happen to me really all that often. It's more or less just dungeon/quest objective interaction stability. They could rectify that problem with having similar options of activation much like they tried with synergy priority, but somehow I doubt they will because they can't even make ally pets click-through. It doesn't happen often, and you're correct. But it'd definitely be a QoL for some in other areas as this would also alleviate things like unlooted corpses, to even how we loot (provided we trusted ZOS enough to allow us a decent way to choose what we prioritize rather than them deciding for us). However based on the current track record, I don't really trust ZOS to take on something like that and it work efficiently (imagine if we can't activate anything, that's very yikes).

For the mudball issue, again, being that it's a memento your other post might be a better compromise than a full on negation of it. People get deterred if they have to wait, but not so long that it affects their performance on getting those quests/achievements done. I still wish they built ult though. That's a feature that is sadly and sorely missed.

Cloudtrader · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

This conversation is giving me flashbacks to the absolute drama over forced emotes in LOTRO. What worked there was a toggle so you wouldn't be affected by the forced emotes, but they still advanced the other persons deed/achievement if they used them on you. There was no visual cue it worked, but the usage wasn't lost on the system and still counted.

Could do the same here to stop griefers from messing with RP parties. It's pretty much a win-win with no downside, except to the griefers, and who even likes those types of people anyway?

While we're at it, can the toggle include that stupidly loud horn noise memento that people like to blare nonstop, too?

PizzaCat82 · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

Cloudtrader wrote: »

This conversation is giving me flashbacks to the absolute drama over forced emotes in LOTRO. What worked there was a toggle so you wouldn't be affected by the forced emotes, but they still advanced the other persons deed/achievement if they used them on you. There was no visual cue it worked, but the usage wasn't lost on the system and still counted.

Could do the same here to stop griefers from messing with RP parties. It's pretty much a win-win with no downside, except to the griefers, and who even likes those types of people anyway?

While we're at it, can the toggle include that stupidly loud horn noise memento that people like to blare nonstop, too?

I'm pretty sure this thread is full of people who crave a negative reaction from their harassment and would be angry that they dont get it.

idk · November 2020

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Did you miss the part that porting out has just the same effect, and is already in the game.

So your "solution" is to stop what you are doing and leave rather than stop the harassment? No. I have the right to do what I want where I want and no other player has the right to run me off.

So your "solution" is the other person has no right to throw mudballs at you at all, a feature that is built into the game? The logic has to work both ways.

Based on Zos' comments related to the new Harassment clauses in the TOS they can lose their right to throw mudballs at someone. Zos has even said it is possible for tea bagging someone's corps in PvP can cross the line and be punishable by Zos.

Zos said it would be handled on a case-by-case basis but logically speaking it is easy to see how constantly throwing mudballs can cross the line. In the same token, it can be just as easy to see someone maybe a little over-sensitive to what harassment which is why we, as individuals playing ESO, are not judge and jury.

I am providing Gina's comments which is also an official statement from Zos on this subject.

As with many things in-game, context is very important. The act of standing and squatting over another NPC or character to teabag them can be considered a form of harassment which can be a violation of the Terms of Service (ToS). As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop. If you continue to teabag someone that asks you to stop, that is a violation of the ToS and may lead to your account being suspended or even permanently banned. Hope this helps clear things up

SilverBride · November 2020

Get rid of the interactions entirely

idk wrote: »

Zos said it would be handled on a case-by-case basis but logically speaking it is easy to see how constantly throwing mudballs can cross the line. In the same token, it can be just as easy to see someone maybe a little over-sensitive to what harassment which is why we, as individuals playing ESO, are not judge and jury.

I wouldn't call someone over-sensitive because they have a lower threshold for annoying behavior. And it's not the right of any player to continue an annoying behavior until they find that threshold.

Until ZoS takes action just report and show proof of any harassment. Maybe if they get enough complaints they will realize this is a problem and do something about it.

idk · November 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Zos said it would be handled on a case-by-case basis but logically speaking it is easy to see how constantly throwing mudballs can cross the line. In the same token, it can be just as easy to see someone maybe a little over-sensitive to what harassment which is why we, as individuals playing ESO, are not judge and jury.

I wouldn't call someone over-sensitive because they have a lower threshold for annoying behavior. And it's not the right of any player to continue an annoying behavior until they find that threshold.

Until ZoS takes action just report and show proof of any harassment. Maybe if they get enough complaints they will realize this is a problem and do something about it.

Ok, some will be more sensitive than others would have been a better way to state it.

In the end, it is Zos that determines if the player has crossed the line into harassment they will take action on and it should be based on the facts and merits of the situation. Also, technically, Zos has done something about it. That comment from Gina that I provided is a very broad statement about what actions can be considered harassment.

And you are correct. Reporting it is important. I think I stated in this thread that PC can grab the last X minutes of gameplay to provide video evidence of what happened. I think consoles can do the same.

I would also add that contributing to what is happening and then complaining about it will make it less likely Zos will act as they can see past our videos and see if we were actually part of the problem. After all, we cannot have players setting up a situation to set someone up.

sevomd69 · November 2020

Don't understand all of you who are against a toggle... if YOU think it FUN... then you can keep at default... and those who think its an asinine attempt at middle school humor can toggle it off...

idk · November 2020

sevomd69 wrote: »

Don't understand all of you who are against a toggle... if YOU think it FUN... then you can keep at default... and those who think its an asinine attempt at middle school humor can toggle it off...

I doubt Zos will make those moments useless which is exactly what a toggle would do. Pretty most of the people that would not have the toggle set to off would be those who do not know about the toggle.

PizzaCat82 · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

idk wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Don't understand all of you who are against a toggle... if YOU think it FUN... then you can keep at default... and those who think its an asinine attempt at middle school humor can toggle it off...

I doubt Zos will make those moments useless which is exactly what a toggle would do. Pretty most of the people that would not have the toggle set to off would be those who do not know about the toggle.

They could simply have a tooltip when getting hit or interacting with momentos to turn them off, the same way you could activate a synergy.. make it lower priority than most actual interactions and it shouldn't cause much an issue for people.

idk · November 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Don't understand all of you who are against a toggle... if YOU think it FUN... then you can keep at default... and those who think its an asinine attempt at middle school humor can toggle it off...

I doubt Zos will make those moments useless which is exactly what a toggle would do. Pretty most of the people that would not have the toggle set to off would be those who do not know about the toggle.

They could simply have a tooltip when getting hit or interacting with momentos to turn them off, the same way you could activate a synergy.. make it lower priority than most actual interactions and it shouldn't cause much an issue for people.

I have already suggested a cooldown per target, but that may add to the sever load.

Regardless, I am very confident Zow will not provide a toggle to avoid being the target of one of these moments altogether. It makes no sense to render a moment useless.

SilverBride · November 2020

Get rid of the interactions entirely

idk wrote: »

Regardless, I am very confident Zow will not provide a toggle to avoid being the target of one of these moments altogether. It makes no sense to render a moment useless.

It makes less sense to introduce things into the game with such a high propensity for harassment.

idk · November 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Regardless, I am very confident Zow will not provide a toggle to avoid being the target of one of these moments altogether. It makes no sense to render a moment useless.

It makes less sense to introduce things into the game with such a high propensity for harassment.

It is a little late for that discussion since it is already in the game. Further, it does not seem to have a high propensity for harassment. It seems the harassment is rather limited. I can attest I have only had one person harass me with this and it lasted one day. Getting hit randomly from time to time is not harassment, especially not by Zos' standards.

Sylvermynx · November 2020

I've never been harassed with this. A person who was registered on my own game forum seemed to be intent on "harassing" me with this thing - which was after s/he was banned from there for being.... not a class member.... or a class act of any sort.

I placed that person on block, and s/he has never bothered me since. And interestingly enough, I did not have any issues completing writ crafting even with his/her bombardment of mudballs.

Then again, I don't have anything approaching an issue with this sort of thing, even if it happens over and over. I get my stuff done, and then I go play something I need to work on.

Miszou · November 2020

So earlier today, I was standing around waiting for a Dolmen to appear, just browsing through my character screen and checking my buffs. All of a sudden, someone threw a frost shield on me and it appeared in my buff list and disrupted my reading.

Please do something about this unwanted intrusion into my gaming experience. It's is beyond the pale that someone else can interfere with my reading.

Thank you.

/s

katanagirl1 · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

There is an option to turn off duel invites, something similar could be used for any emotes that another player could direct at you as well.

As for reporting the player, it is hard for me to get a video of this player when it happens. I try to do my crafting dailies or gear decon as fast as I can and get out so I am concentrating on that. I only have a screen snapshot of the afterward.

I don’t see the cherry blossom thing as griefing, it’s actually sort of nice. Mudballs and squawky birds that crap on you, never nice.

SilverBride · November 2020

Get rid of the interactions entirely

idk wrote: »

Getting hit randomly from time to time is not harassment

I agree, which is why I said it wasn't a big deal when I got hit while running through town. I have just been irritated enough by it in other situations that I would like to toggle it off when I'm actually trying to accomplish something.

sevomd69 · November 2020

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Did you miss the part that porting out has just the same effect, and is already in the game.

So your "solution" is to stop what you are doing and leave rather than stop the harassment? No. I have the right to do what I want where I want and no other player has the right to run me off.

So your "solution" is the other person has no right to throw mudballs at you at all, a feature that is built into the game? The logic has to work both ways.

The solution is that the “prankster” can throw as many mud balls as his juvenile heart wants... but the person that he is throwing it at suffers no effect...win win for all...

Minyassa · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

The fact that someone would assume that if such a toggle existed, everyone would use it...that says that even someone *defending* mudball use thinks most people hate it, which means they think of it as a way to annoy people rather than a way for mutual throwers to have fun with each other. Very telling.

Again...if such a toggle was installed the way LOTRO did it, people who wished to play with involuntary emotes would have to have the toggle set to allow themselves to be affected by them, and people who did not wish to be affected by them would not be able to use them against others either. Those who have achievements to get would have zero trouble finding other people to throw things at because there ARE achievements and there's not only one single lonely frustrated person in the game who wants achievements. There are plenty of people who like throwing mudballs, and there are clearly plenty of people who don't mind having them thrown at them. There's your play base, it's just fine. If you tried to throw at someone who was blocked you'd just get the little bink noise you get when you try to duel someone who has auto-decline, and that hasn't ended the world for duelers, they just move on and find someone who WANTS to duel. This is the exact same principle, except more necessary because you can't literally force someone into a duel in order to beat them to a treasure chest, or follow them down the road for fifteen minutes making them duel you over and over because you're bored.

I stand by my assessment that the only people who would have anything against the toggle idea are people who feel the need to use these things to *bother* others, and the removal of the ability to use them as an aggravation is what's bothering them.

Grianasteri · November 2020

I wont vote because there is no option for, "leave things as they are thanks, I like meat, mud, snow, berries etc".

Why would you not have that as an option in your poll?

CMDR_Un1k0rn · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

Grianasteri wrote: »

I wont vote because there is no option for, "leave things as they are thanks, I like meat, mud, snow, berries etc".

Why would you not have that as an option in your poll?

He literally explained it in the first reply.

Anyway, perhaps all that needs doing is for ZOS to get rid of the interruption. Snowball from the Frost Atronach crates already has no interrupt. Just briefly covers the target in snow.

Yes. ZOS sold us a similar memento for cash years after the mudball was added.

I would think that provides some indication as to their opinion on the matter.

doomette · November 2020

Integral1900 wrote: »

Let’s face it, any thought that these things are being used for fun is delusional.

...

These items in their current form are used for one reason and one reason alone, the same reason that the pie exists, it is to give bullies and those who get their jollies from harassment a tool to torment, pester, and intimidate other players.

These are absurdly broad statements and I think your experience working with people who are bullied (kudos for that, by the way) is clouding your judgement.

For example, when a friend of mine and I are bored, sometimes we’ll zip around on our speedy wood elves, and try to pelt each other mud balls. It’s pure silliness, but this is a video game, not exactly the most serious of endeavors.
I highly doubt that every single person throwing an odd mudball at someone is doing it to bully people. Maybe they’re hoping to start a light-hearted mudball fight.

Of course there are people who do throw mudballs to harass and bully, like the people who do it to disrupt RP events. Those people are jerks and I can only hope ESO makes it clear to them that behavior is unacceptable.

But to assume every single person throwing mudballs is some harassing butthead? That’s a bit much.

SilverBride · November 2020

Get rid of the interactions entirely

doomette wrote: »

But to assume every single person throwing mudballs is some harassing butthead? That’s a bit much.

I don't think anyone here assumes every player tossing a mudball is doing it to aggravate. But we would like protection from those who are.

BXR_Lonestar · November 2020

Bias poll. I'd say just leave it as is. Seriously, its not a big deal if someone hits you with a mudball or a pie. It's actually quite funny IMO (both throwing and getting hit with one). If it bothers you that much, you can always move on or change instances. Not a big deal.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

Integral1900 wrote: »

Let’s face it, any thought that these things are being used for fun is delusional.

I use them for fun.

Integral1900 wrote: »

I spent several years working with the victims of bullying and the consequences that come with it. What is a joke to one person is a crippling experience to another. There are many players in this game who are here because it allows them to escape pressures in the world that they can do nothing about. Items such as these mudballs cannot fail to be anything but a toxic influence.

That's not true. Plenty of people enjoy them or are unbothered by them, as evident in this thread.

Integral1900 wrote: »

I do not think they were introduced out of malice, but there is certainly a considerable amount of ignorance in their implementation.

I mean any player interaction has the potential for harassment. That's why TOS goes by a case by case basis.

Integral1900 wrote: »

These items in their current form are used for one reason and one reason alone, the same reason that the pie exists, it is to give bullies and those who get their jollies from harassment a tool to torment, pester, and intimidate other players.

Even the people annoyed by these mudballs are not intimated by them. This is a bit much and it's pretty terrible to stereotype so many people this way.

Integral1900 wrote: »

These things should never have been put in the game but as they are then I would certainly be willing to pay whatever price the studio deems fit in order to be immune to them. For the love of God get rid of the stuff!

I support a toggle for people like you, as long as it doesn't get in the way of others getting their related achievements.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Give players an option to Turn off PVE interactions with other players (No picking up or even seeing meats, or getting hit with balls, etc)

SilverBride wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

But to assume every single person throwing mudballs is some harassing butthead? That’s a bit much.

I don't think anyone here assumes every player tossing a mudball is doing it to aggravate. But we would like protection from those who are.

@SilverBride

Actually that was explicitly stated in this thread that the sole reason anyone could throw a mudball is to annoy, harass or intimidate by another user. I think some people have a pretty extreme hatred of mudballs and it's kinda transferring to mudballers too. An excellent reason for a toggle imo.

Sarannah · November 2020

I would be for a reflect option.... what goes around comes around!