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Why ask for content to be made harder? Just put on green gear and take out some cp
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HumbleThaumaturge✭✭✭✭@HumbleThaumaturge, was the one ability slotted Puncturing Sweeps?
Why yes, it was!0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just the fact there are threads advising people to purposely degrade their gear and experience to make the landscape content more challenging proves how much of a real problem this is. hahaEdited by Jeremy on November 23, 2020 11:19PM14 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Then you end up with a situation like VMA and MA. The only reason to do MA, before they changed it, was to learn spawn times and some of the mechanics while you work on your rotation and kill priority.
There were pretty much 0 reasons to do it outside of that. Loot? Trash. Title? Meh.
Because nobody farms any normal mode content currently for the gear that drops there? And nobody does any normal mode content just to experience it? And nobody does Hardmode currently just for the accomplishment or titles?
The feeling of progression is important in a game. While doing content is fun, and can be the reason why a lot of people play.. its also quickly forgotten. I don't farm dungeons for gear because the gear is pointless, no matter how much they try to entice me with a collection system.
Same for Normal Trials, and DLC dungeons. There's just not much of a point to run it more than once on Normal.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »
3k daily few times a day is a lot. Imagine respecting between dungeons, every single time. That's easily over 50k a week. Which is over 2 million yearly. Doable? Ye. Worth it? Hell no. Especially since even with add-ons all these resets are way too much work to actually enjoy overland. Refer to one of the previous posters explaining how making yourself weaker doesn't make the bosses more enjoyable.
I get 10-12k from one vet trial run, and that's just from Undaunted Plunder.. so I feel fairly safe when I say that there's no problem paying.. regarding the extra "work" as you call it, try and remember how much extra "work" would be added for thousands of people, if they up the difficulty to suit a few players who are too good to want to downgrade themselves a bit
When did I ever ask for content to be made harder? Most ask for an optional difficulty increase. optional. All your, and op's argument about why it shouldn't be made harder are invalid because you are not even arguing our request. But an imaginary request you made up for us.
To be fair, the majority of your side if the group still forget to use the word optional.. so we're both to blame here.. if you are in the optional camp, my biggest concern is splitting up the players
But do players really team up for landscape content anyway? Outside of World Bosses and Dolmen like activities there is really no reason to group up on this game. So I don't see splitting up the players to be much of an issue.
Perhaps they could put World Bosses, Dragons and other such activities into a separate phase of their own where players can converge? That would probably be a good idea to do anyway.Edited by Jeremy on November 23, 2020 11:25PM1 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »The feeling of progression is important in a game. While doing content is fun, and can be the reason why a lot of people play.. its also quickly forgotten. I don't farm dungeons for gear because the gear is pointless, no matter how much they try to entice me with a collection system.
Same for Normal Trials, and DLC dungeons. There's just not much of a point to run it more than once on Normal.
Ok well you are one person, and we all know that a huge percentage of the playerbase farms normal difficulty content for gear at one point or another. Even vet players.
And we also know that a sizeable portion of the playerbase has no inclination to do anything beyond normal difficulty content.
So what point are you trying to make?Edited by Mindcr0w on November 24, 2020 1:05AM0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »The feeling of progression is important in a game. While doing content is fun, and can be the reason why a lot of people play.. its also quickly forgotten. I don't farm dungeons for gear because the gear is pointless, no matter how much they try to entice me with a collection system.
Same for Normal Trials, and DLC dungeons. There's just not much of a point to run it more than once on Normal.
Ok well you are one person, and we all know that a huge percentage of the playerbase farms normal difficulty content for gear at one point or another. Even vet players.
And we also know that a sizeable portion of the playerbase has no inclination to do anything beyond normal difficulty content.
So what point are you trying to make?
Don't lock all meaningful progression behind vet content is my point. There's a fine line between "being handed everything on normal" and "working for every drop 500X to get the piece you need".
You are right in that people do farm normal dungeons for gear, but I find the biggest problem players have is not knowing how to do a rotation or avoid 1 shot mechanics in DLC dungeons.
How can we expect someone to move from Normal to Vet if they dont have the right skills loadout/food/etc.
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Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Don't lock all meaningful progression behind vet content is my point.
It isn't.
Getting that non-perfected Relequen out of nCR, or non-perfected False God's out of nSS (just to give two examples) is huge for most players working their way up the ladder. Real meaningful achievements that meaningfully improve their characters and help them be ready to move on to bigger things.
And for many that will be good enough and they'll stop there.
That's the way it should be. Normal helping you progress into Vet, or normal being where you prefer to stop. Choice.You are right in that people do farm normal dungeons for gear, but I find the biggest problem players have is not knowing how to do a rotation or avoid 1 shot mechanics in DLC dungeons.
Again I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. I hit 91k and play with people of equal or greater skill level and I'd never farm the non-monster sets out of Frostvault, for example, on vet. That choice isn't a problem or deficiency with the players. That is just simple efficiency.How can we expect someone to move from Normal to Vet if they dont have the right skills loadout/food/etc.
I don't even really know where this conversation is going. This entire back and forth started by me saying I'd like to see more optionally super hard bosses for vets while keeping the normal difficulty for the average guys. You apparently object to that idea but you don't seem to be saying anything about why that is, and seem to have gone on a tangent about the difficulty bads face in learning to be goods.
I mean yeah, the game does a lousy job teaching people to play their class/role. I agree with you there if that is your point. But those that want to learn will, so I'm not sure what that has to do with optional extra difficulty settings for those that have already achieved a high level of play.Edited by Mindcr0w on November 24, 2020 3:28AM0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »
3k daily few times a day is a lot. Imagine respecting between dungeons, every single time. That's easily over 50k a week. Which is over 2 million yearly. Doable? Ye. Worth it? Hell no. Especially since even with add-ons all these resets are way too much work to actually enjoy overland. Refer to one of the previous posters explaining how making yourself weaker doesn't make the bosses more enjoyable.
I get 10-12k from one vet trial run, and that's just from Undaunted Plunder.. so I feel fairly safe when I say that there's no problem paying.. regarding the extra "work" as you call it, try and remember how much extra "work" would be added for thousands of people, if they up the difficulty to suit a few players who are too good to want to downgrade themselves a bit
When did I ever ask for content to be made harder? Most ask for an optional difficulty increase. optional. All your, and op's argument about why it shouldn't be made harder are invalid because you are not even arguing our request. But an imaginary request you made up for us.
To be fair, the majority of your side if the group still forget to use the word optional.. so we're both to blame here.. if you are in the optional camp, my biggest concern is splitting up the players
But do players really team up for landscape content anyway? Outside of World Bosses and Dolmen like activities there is really no reason to group up on this game. So I don't see splitting up the players to be much of an issue.
Perhaps they could put World Bosses, Dragons and other such activities into a separate phase of their own where players can converge? That would probably be a good idea to do anyway.
I see people asking for help for all sorts of stuff, quests included.. so I would still be against splitting up people unless we have no other choice0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »
3k daily few times a day is a lot. Imagine respecting between dungeons, every single time. That's easily over 50k a week. Which is over 2 million yearly. Doable? Ye. Worth it? Hell no. Especially since even with add-ons all these resets are way too much work to actually enjoy overland. Refer to one of the previous posters explaining how making yourself weaker doesn't make the bosses more enjoyable.
I get 10-12k from one vet trial run, and that's just from Undaunted Plunder.. so I feel fairly safe when I say that there's no problem paying.. regarding the extra "work" as you call it, try and remember how much extra "work" would be added for thousands of people, if they up the difficulty to suit a few players who are too good to want to downgrade themselves a bit
When did I ever ask for content to be made harder? Most ask for an optional difficulty increase. optional. All your, and op's argument about why it shouldn't be made harder are invalid because you are not even arguing our request. But an imaginary request you made up for us.
To be fair, the majority of your side if the group still forget to use the word optional.. so we're both to blame here.. if you are in the optional camp, my biggest concern is splitting up the players
But do players really team up for landscape content anyway? Outside of World Bosses and Dolmen like activities there is really no reason to group up on this game. So I don't see splitting up the players to be much of an issue.
Perhaps they could put World Bosses, Dragons and other such activities into a separate phase of their own where players can converge? That would probably be a good idea to do anyway.
I see people asking for help for all sorts of stuff, quests included.. so I would still be against splitting up people unless we have no other choice
There is no splitting up with momento/food debuffs. You can even add different levels to it, catering to the whole spectrum of players, leaving them all in the same instance.0 -
Attackopsn✭✭✭✭✭Because half the fun in an rpg, mmo or otherwise, is using all the cool things you found and learned and taking on ______, taking all that off to create a pseudo increase in difficulty? Even then, it still doesn’t touch the surface, and it definitely doesn’t affect you if you don’t want to participate in that difficulty, since they have standardized normal gear being functionally almost identical to veteran.
Let’s not pretend like they don’t already prop y’all up and make this game easier every patch either, anyone who was beating vma on release could beat it without weapons in first person now because the power creep in relation to difficulty has made old content a joke and new content doesn’t come close. Ive played this game through high school, college, deployment, over half a decade, and I promise you despite the fact that the pool of experienced and skilled players has increased, they have also toned down difficulty tremendously.
All we want is an option, the ability to make things harder and maybe get some cool cosmetics or something, we love this game too, and it takes just about zero development time to make it fun again for us the way it is for you.
If your argument is you want to be able to complete content too, you still can, normal is one click away.
Nothing in this game even touches the difficulty of a commonly considered difficult game, honestly 90% of attacks follow the same speed standard, and are basic light attacks that hardly punish you outside of the biggest hitters in arenas and raids, which often still won’t one shot even a DPS. Everything can be earned, the biggest obstacle will always be the player, not the content.Edited by Attackopsn on November 24, 2020 8:09AMign: ATTACKO
PS4 NA
First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode3 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Attackopsn wrote: »Because half the fun in an rpg, mmo or otherwise, is using all the cool things you found and learned and taking on ______, taking all that off to create a pseudo increase in difficulty? Even then, it still doesn’t touch the surface, and it definitely doesn’t affect you if you don’t want to participate in that difficulty, since they have standardized normal gear being functionally almost identical to veteran.
Let’s not pretend like they don’t already prop y’all up and make this game easier every patch either, anyone who was beating vma on release could beat it without weapons in first person now because the power creep in relation to difficulty has made old content a joke and new content doesn’t come close. Ive played this game through high school, college, deployment, over half a decade, and I promise you despite the fact that the pool of experienced and skilled players has increased, they have also toned down difficulty tremendously.
All we want is an option, the ability to make things harder and maybe get some cool cosmetics or something, we love this game too, and it takes just about zero development time to make it fun again for us the way it is for you.
If your argument is you want to be able to complete content too, you still can, normal is one click away.
Nothing in this game even touches the difficulty of a commonly considered difficult game, honestly 90% of attacks follow the same speed standard, and are basic light attacks that hardly punish you outside of the biggest hitters in arenas and raids, which often still won’t one shot even a DPS. Everything can be earned, the biggest obstacle will always be the player, not the content.
No one ever said it was to be on par with the difficult titles out there.. TES is more about story, always have been.. all the single player games have been that way too0 -
Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Attackopsn wrote: »Because half the fun in an rpg, mmo or otherwise, is using all the cool things you found and learned and taking on ______, taking all that off to create a pseudo increase in difficulty? Even then, it still doesn’t touch the surface, and it definitely doesn’t affect you if you don’t want to participate in that difficulty, since they have standardized normal gear being functionally almost identical to veteran.
Let’s not pretend like they don’t already prop y’all up and make this game easier every patch either, anyone who was beating vma on release could beat it without weapons in first person now because the power creep in relation to difficulty has made old content a joke and new content doesn’t come close. Ive played this game through high school, college, deployment, over half a decade, and I promise you despite the fact that the pool of experienced and skilled players has increased, they have also toned down difficulty tremendously.
All we want is an option, the ability to make things harder and maybe get some cool cosmetics or something, we love this game too, and it takes just about zero development time to make it fun again for us the way it is for you.
If your argument is you want to be able to complete content too, you still can, normal is one click away.
Nothing in this game even touches the difficulty of a commonly considered difficult game, honestly 90% of attacks follow the same speed standard, and are basic light attacks that hardly punish you outside of the biggest hitters in arenas and raids, which often still won’t one shot even a DPS. Everything can be earned, the biggest obstacle will always be the player, not the content.
No one ever said it was to be on par with the difficult titles out there.. TES is more about story, always have been.. all the single player games have been that way too
Story falls flat if the enemy dies too easily. What if Gandalf points his staff at the Balrog and it keels over before he can finish "you shall not pass"?7 -
Attackopsn✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Attackopsn wrote: »Because half the fun in an rpg, mmo or otherwise, is using all the cool things you found and learned and taking on ______, taking all that off to create a pseudo increase in difficulty? Even then, it still doesn’t touch the surface, and it definitely doesn’t affect you if you don’t want to participate in that difficulty, since they have standardized normal gear being functionally almost identical to veteran.
Let’s not pretend like they don’t already prop y’all up and make this game easier every patch either, anyone who was beating vma on release could beat it without weapons in first person now because the power creep in relation to difficulty has made old content a joke and new content doesn’t come close. Ive played this game through high school, college, deployment, over half a decade, and I promise you despite the fact that the pool of experienced and skilled players has increased, they have also toned down difficulty tremendously.
All we want is an option, the ability to make things harder and maybe get some cool cosmetics or something, we love this game too, and it takes just about zero development time to make it fun again for us the way it is for you.
If your argument is you want to be able to complete content too, you still can, normal is one click away.
Nothing in this game even touches the difficulty of a commonly considered difficult game, honestly 90% of attacks follow the same speed standard, and are basic light attacks that hardly punish you outside of the biggest hitters in arenas and raids, which often still won’t one shot even a DPS. Everything can be earned, the biggest obstacle will always be the player, not the content.
No one ever said it was to be on par with the difficult titles out there.. TES is more about story, always have been.. all the single player games have been that way too
I never said it had to be, nobody is asking for that, we are asking for an option to see an increase from what we have, reading what I said instead of skimming a line or two would have told you that.
ign: ATTACKO
PS4 NA
First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode1 -
ke.sardenb14_ESO✭✭✭@stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO you did a wonderful job taking the words right out of my mouth. Thanks
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Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Attackopsn wrote: »Because half the fun in an rpg, mmo or otherwise, is using all the cool things you found and learned and taking on ______, taking all that off to create a pseudo increase in difficulty? Even then, it still doesn’t touch the surface, and it definitely doesn’t affect you if you don’t want to participate in that difficulty, since they have standardized normal gear being functionally almost identical to veteran.
Let’s not pretend like they don’t already prop y’all up and make this game easier every patch either, anyone who was beating vma on release could beat it without weapons in first person now because the power creep in relation to difficulty has made old content a joke and new content doesn’t come close. Ive played this game through high school, college, deployment, over half a decade, and I promise you despite the fact that the pool of experienced and skilled players has increased, they have also toned down difficulty tremendously.
All we want is an option, the ability to make things harder and maybe get some cool cosmetics or something, we love this game too, and it takes just about zero development time to make it fun again for us the way it is for you.
If your argument is you want to be able to complete content too, you still can, normal is one click away.
Nothing in this game even touches the difficulty of a commonly considered difficult game, honestly 90% of attacks follow the same speed standard, and are basic light attacks that hardly punish you outside of the biggest hitters in arenas and raids, which often still won’t one shot even a DPS. Everything can be earned, the biggest obstacle will always be the player, not the content.
No one ever said it was to be on par with the difficult titles out there.. TES is more about story, always have been.. all the single player games have been that way too
Story falls flat if the enemy dies too easily. What if Gandalf points his staff at the Balrog and it keels over before he can finish "you shall not pass"?
Enemy difficulty does not impact the story imo
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UrbanMonk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is the real Argument really, Skills vs Gear+CP? Because as far as difficulty is concerned, normal mode of Dungeons, Trails, Arenas are way way easier when compared to Veteran version of the same. And now the argument of getting Trial/Arena gear only from vet is also out of window, since you can get all of that from normal mode of their counterparts.
And if this argument is about vet Content being too hard vs its availability to those who are not at that skill/gear/CP level to clear it, then that is utter laziness as to I dont want to increase my skills or work on them to better myself, but scale the content down to my level.
In short, if you want to beat hard endgame content then work for it. Calling others Elite because they are like gods, is imo as bad as calling others Whining lazy bunch who do not want to work for it. Those "Elite " were not born with it, they worked for it. Agree there are some Elite a--hol-s who like to rub it around but that does not mean ever one is....Urban.Monk
-Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
-Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
-Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24
youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.0 -
NEMESIS_97✭✭✭Its easy for vets in vma, vdsa and vets trials gear to feel like content is too easy for them BUT instead of asking to make harder content why dont you just adjust your cp and throw on some green gear then go do all the content that feels so easy for you.
I understand you guys get bored and need a good challenge well try soloing the elsweyr dragons with blue normal gear ...You guys complain the game is broken but ask for zos to make more content. Have you all already beat everything ? If you have then maybe this game is just too easy for you cos its hard as hell for a lot of us who have not been able to beat the vet arenas etc cos you know someone like me is just ***.
I pay sub for a game i never progress in this game cos its really made for Gods that can beat things with their 20 year old's reflexes. Every guild ive joined has these Gods in them that love to rub their vettiness up everyones noses.... Now guilds are expecting players to have beat vma and vdsa....just another way to cause division in guilds and big note themselves. Why do games have to be this way? It only benefits leetists in the end.
Nobody likes to hear the damn truth and im ready for zos to monitor my post cios im so honest about what is going on. @Richard Lambert streams himself beating the arenas but he is playing literally in the room the servers are at lol ...0 ms. Plus he made the game, if he couldnt beat it God help us all. Why cant anyone see reality anymore? Why do people accept all the crap being fed to them in games ?
Games should all have a way for players to progress to endgame in a way that feels possible ...not cause so much grief and pain and mental anguish....that is a health hazzard. Why is stress in games okay? Games should be fun, inspiring, fun ....people should have hope that they can achieve and move on and progress by training withing the game. Normal content jump to vets is ridiculous...no training at all. The gap is too big. Its kindergarden to college ...no primary school.
I understand your frustation and believe me, I thought the same.
...buuut at the end things are possible.
vMA is and needs to be a seriously hard piece of dungeon and after some trials and errors I managed to do it with a STAMINA DK, which is literally impossible :'D (this game hates melee, every boss has some big AoEs around or stages like 7 Vault of Umbrage are plainly dumb, magicka people can just find a nice spot and attack while melee almost always need to go inside the poison most of the times just to attack anyone :'D)
So, if I did it (and I'm noob) you can do it.
It's also the word itself "endgame" an important one, it means that you should face it with the best gear, the best party, the best attitude and, of course, the best gameplay.
The game has already been dumbed down by a lot and yesterday I was in a party that was unable to even finish spindleclutch II in vet (I consider Vet basegame dungeons to be the beginning of easy/medium content) and there are classes (I've seen a templar just doing it) that can basically solo those dungeons :'D
Nevertheless, you HAVE to have a good setup to do that content, it should not be viable to casual players at all!
Try doing vet Cloudrest without having 2 tanks with different gears, or without having self heals for who goes into the portals and so on.
The game is hard but it has a logic and if you don't want to see that logic I'm sorry but it's your problem.
There are THOUSANDS of quests if you wanna play solo and man, those are seriously stupid difficulty wise.
You can literally sleep and go afk while a quest boss is hitting you and come back after 20 minutes and probably the boss will be the one dead.
I miss the times when those things were challenging :'D
So, the answer is out there, somebody does it and it's not black magic, the game follows a set of rules with equipment skills and buffs to consider, if you wanna be in the endgame you have to follow them, come on it's endgame what did you expect
For me stamdps in vma is cake walk..some flawless stam toons..only magdps i cleared vma is magplar..#stamforlife0 -
NEMESIS_97✭✭✭Why ask for content to stay easy ? Just learn to play.
Also as other people already pointed out , using weaker gear and less CP's won't make fight suddenly satysfying and challenging because the key factor that makes content easy is knowing excatly how to beat it and that knowledge comes with practice. Lowering stats won't magically wipe the knowledge and experience gained in the game. It'll just make fight even more boring when boredom is a factor because of which people ask to increase difficulty in the 1st place. Beliving that it's all about gear or CP's is a myth.
Perfectly said...cookie from me..whisp me in game will send cookie
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LashanW✭✭✭✭✭
✭
To me it does, because what is told to you and what you feel have a huge gap. I'm talking about overland questing btw.Daemons_Bane wrote: »Enemy difficulty does not impact the story imo
Questing NPCs speak and treat me as a helpful person who can give them a helping a hand, but sometimes they are also concerned about my safety and even try to provide a support companion sometimes or some other help. This gives me the feeling there is a tough task ahead.
Reality is I burn anything and everything that gets in my way in 1-3 seconds, including quest bosses. They don't even get to finish their opening sentence in which they say something to intimidate me. I never get even remotely threatened.
Sometimes quests have objective "survive the enemy attack", some 30k hp poor fellas show up in groups 2-3 at a time. My light attack + spammable does 30k+ dmg without usage of any noteable buffs. All my DoTs and other utility skills are almost never needed.
Regardless of what horror and danger these quests describe to be, all I feel is I'm a god who is simply deleting insects in an instant when they look at me the wrong way. Immersion is out the window when I know I have to severely nerf myself if I want to match the story and the actual experience.
Like some guy said earlier, questing is essentially going from one dialogue to the next. Like those visual novel games. Sometimes puzzles are involved, but real combat is never included. It's not necessarily a bad thing for all players, but some vet players get bored very quick when questing because of this.
Having optional settings to increase the difficulty of quests for yourself would be such an amazing thing. It shouldn't affect other very casual players who play with base settings.---No longer active in ESO---
Platform: PC-EU
CP: 2500+Trial Achievements
Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Immortal Redeemer, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vMoL no death
Arena Achievements
vMA Flawless, vVH Spirit Slayer
DLC Dungeon Trifectas
Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, Icereach7 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...
The fact that you feel the need to add your CP and a list of trials you cleared to your signature is all i need to know about your personality.
It also explains why you keep coming back to calling yourself a "god" and using the term "casual" to describe other players that aren't worth your time and consideration.
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Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I’ve seen many stand alone rpg games with difficulty sliders. I’ve never seen an MMO with one. Has anyone else? How could it even be possible? It seems like in a case like an MMO, the only way a slider could be implemented would be in a way that affects the character doing the sliding, not in a way that would affect anything in the world around the character.0 -
LashanW✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hmm. That's quite the statement there, I posted only once before in this thread and this is the only time in the forums I used the term "god" (feel free to go through my commenting history on this account if you want to make sure, or you can keep telling yourself otherwise, your choice).It also explains why you keep coming back to calling yourself a "god" and using the term "casual" to describe other players that aren't worth your time and consideration.
It was never meant to compare myself against other players, it was meant to compare my dps characters against the 30k-60k HP enemies or 100k-150k HP quest bosses you encounter in questing. Try to understand this part sir, it's important.
I used the term "casual" here to describe players who are content with the current difficulty of questing. I'm not supporting any idea that makes questing experience any more difficult/tedious for them, only proper options that makes questing experience more enjoyable for the more veteran players (and for them alone, other players must not be affected). For example most guild quests and main quest occur in solo instances, could at least have an optional veteran mode there, to match the story telling. In my opinion the only difference between casual and vet/hardcore players is the difference of interest. Never said anything wrong about difference of interests. I'm not sure where you picked up the notion that I use word "casual" to describe players as people who are not worth my time and consideration. Can you provide an example for this? I don't think I ever made a comment indicating this. Perhaps you are confusing my description of quest npc enemies to that of casual players.
Accurately deciphering a human being's personality by only using their account signature in a gaming forum of an MMO. Quite the talent there.The fact that you feel the need to add your CP and a list of trials you cleared to your signature is all i need to know about your personality.
I love the end game content in this game and it's the most enjoyable portion of the game for me, so yes I added them. I enjoy doing difficult achievement in this game so yes I added those too. An account signature is about you. I'm not interested in doing any guild recruitments/advertisements so I don't have such details or several links regarding them in my signature.
However I do now see my account signature can be quite the unnecessary information for some people and take too much footprint in the comments, I apologize. I'll see if I can hide it by making it a spoiler tag.---No longer active in ESO---
Platform: PC-EU
CP: 2500+Trial Achievements
Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Immortal Redeemer, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vMoL no death
Arena Achievements
vMA Flawless, vVH Spirit Slayer
DLC Dungeon Trifectas
Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, Icereach8 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Don't lock all meaningful progression behind vet content is my point.
It isn't.
Getting that non-perfected Relequen out of nCR, or non-perfected False God's out of nSS (just to give two examples) is huge for most players working their way up the ladder. Real meaningful achievements that meaningfully improve their characters and help them be ready to move on to bigger things.
And for many that will be good enough and they'll stop there.
That's the way it should be. Normal helping you progress into Vet, or normal being where you prefer to stop. Choice.You are right in that people do farm normal dungeons for gear, but I find the biggest problem players have is not knowing how to do a rotation or avoid 1 shot mechanics in DLC dungeons.
Again I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. I hit 91k and play with people of equal or greater skill level and I'd never farm the non-monster sets out of Frostvault, for example, on vet. That choice isn't a problem or deficiency with the players. That is just simple efficiency.How can we expect someone to move from Normal to Vet if they dont have the right skills loadout/food/etc.
I don't even really know where this conversation is going. This entire back and forth started by me saying I'd like to see more optionally super hard bosses for vets while keeping the normal difficulty for the average guys. You apparently object to that idea but you don't seem to be saying anything about why that is, and seem to have gone on a tangent about the difficulty bads face in learning to be goods.
I mean yeah, the game does a lousy job teaching people to play their class/role. I agree with you there if that is your point. But those that want to learn will, so I'm not sure what that has to do with optional extra difficulty settings for those that have already achieved a high level of play.
You keep thinking i'm objecting to your points when I'm just making my own.0 -
GrimTheReaper45✭✭✭✭✭I do really think this game needs to to a better job of working up to vet content. Normal and vet are nothing alike, it doesnt even slightly prepare you for vet.
Base game, really needs better tools to help players learn. Pc has tools but console has basically nothing. Nothing that tells you if your weaving good enough, nothing that tells you what your missing uptime on. We get heres a dps number, guess what you did wrong.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I do not think overland needs to be made harder per see. I do think the game needs to be rebalanced to adjust for inflation. We have trials, and certainly dungeons, that have been turned into trivial nonsense because of the power creep. Overland has become far to easy as a result of the same power creep except the new overland content is not designed around the current power settings like most new trials are.2 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OP: Tons of threads about this topic but here is one that I felt had particularly good discussion which may be of interest to you: challening vs punishingIts easy for vets in vma, vdsa and vets trials gear to feel like content is too easy for them BUT instead of asking to make harder content why dont you just adjust your cp and throw on some green gear then go do all the content that feels so easy for you.
I understand you guys get bored and need a good challenge well try soloing the elsweyr dragons with blue normal gear ...
Others have given great answers but I will add one: there are players reporting that their friends or they themselves have quit because, as a brand new player, the game was mind-numbingly easy. These are not people that have awesome gear and feel unchallenged. There are enough of these comments on a regular basis that I believe it is a legitimate problem for the ESO community. These players are being turned off by easy content before they can even learn enough about the game to find the harder content.
You guys complain the game is broken but ask for zos to make more content.
Well, to be fair.... even the majority of people on the forums were behind the "year of performance updates" that would fix the game, even if we didn't get new content. That year has been going on for over a year and we've yet to see significant performance improvements. Instead, we've seen changes implemented in the name of performance that, after they didn't help, were still left in to change the trajectory of the game.
At this point I think a lot of people have given up that the game can be truly fixed and, as such, would rather at least have more content to keep them occupied.
Have you all already beat everything ? If you have then maybe this game is just too easy for you cos its hard as hell for a lot of us who have not been able to beat the vet arenas etc cos you know someone like me is just ***.
I pay sub for a game i never progress in this game cos its really made for Gods that can beat things with their 20 year old's reflexes. Every guild ive joined has these Gods in them that love to rub their vettiness up everyones noses.... Now guilds are expecting players to have beat vma and vdsa....just another way to cause division in guilds and big note themselves. Why do games have to be this way? It only benefits leetists in the end.
Nobody likes to hear the damn truth and im ready for zos to monitor my post cos im so honest about what is going on. @Richard Lambert streams himself beating the arenas but he is playing literally in the room the servers are at lol ...0 ms. Plus he made the game, if he couldnt beat it God help us all. Why cant anyone see reality anymore? Why do people accept all the crap being fed to them in games ?
You're kind of mixing a few different things here and making assumptions.- From PvP to PvE to questing to trials to antiquities to achievement hunting to RP, there are lots of different things people like about ESO and I believe many of them do not like all of the content types. Just watch the whining threads during PvP-focused events.
As such, I don't believe it is the goal of most players to "beat everything" nor does ZOS/the devs act like it should be. Most players want to be engaged, want progression, and yes, want new content in which they are interested when the current content becomes repetitive. Maybe part of your issue is that your goal is to beat everything! That's a lot of content to do in any period of time. I've been playing since beta and I haven't done everything. Veteran Blackrose Prison, for example. :P - It can be hard to find a guild that has a slot for your role and wants to run the same kind of content you want to run when you are available to run it. However, there are LOTS of friendly guilds with no requirements if you are willing to help players newer than yourself with content and/or willing to learn with them. It can be frustrating to run into super-elitist guilds but if you don't like that kind of thing, why would you want to join one?
- Yep, you can lose to lag. We all have. Depending on where you live, your gaming rig, your internet connection, etc., some people's experiences are consistently better than others. However I don't think there's any content in the game that can only be beaten with zero ping.
- You can have a vastly different experience depending on your teammates. I've sailed through VDSA and struggled mightily at the last boss of Darkshade Caverns II. Sometimes the issue isn't you OR the ping OR that the content is crazy-unbeatable. It just may be your group doesn't have what it takes. Tank can't taunt. Healer can't purge. Whatever. Bow out and try again a different day.
- You also can have a vastly different experience depending on your build/role. Years ago I made a leveled a specific "vMA character" because my magicka templar healer wasn't cutting it. Not all builds and roles are equal for [insert content you're working through here.] That would be boring. Be willing to change your build and gear out for different content or prepare to struggle in the harder stuff. Veteran trials have different CP point configurations PER TRIAL that can make a big difference.
Games should all have a way for players to progress to endgame in a way that feels possible ...not cause so much grief and pain and mental anguish....that is a health hazzard. Why is stress in games okay? Games should be fun, inspiring......people should have hope that they can achieve and move on and progress by training within the game by themselves and not be forced to rely on other players to train them. Normal content jump to vets is ridiculous...no training at all. The gap is too big. Its kindergarden to college ...no primary school.
I agree the gap is too big. Many of us do. I don't agree that you should be able to learn everything in the game without interacting with other players. As an MMORPG, that's part of the fun. And ESO even doubled down on that strategy by having a minimalist UI. It's only recently that they've been adding features to help new players level and not be so lost.
Anyway, there are all kinds of reasons why there is a gap but blaming experienced players is not the answer or even correct. Power creep, the CP system, ESO's financial model, the typical community progression of any MMO, the fact that ESO lacks better new player guidance now that there are so many expansions and with each new expansion the game pushes new folks to start in with the new, exciting content... all of these things are factors. I am fine with any difficulty slider that doesn't split up the community but I personally don't think it will solve the underlying issue for the majority of the players. There may not even BE an answer, in which case we just need to accept that this is how ESO is and love it or leave it. However, OP, I think a lot of your issues could be addressed by a friendly, helpful guild that's fun to play with as opposed to one that forces content completion to be accepted. Really strict guilds that compete for scores need those kind of requirements but that doesn't sound like it is your cup of tea, now or maybe ever. I know it's not mine.3 - From PvP to PvE to questing to trials to antiquities to achievement hunting to RP, there are lots of different things people like about ESO and I believe many of them do not like all of the content types. Just watch the whining threads during PvP-focused events.
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JayKwellen✭✭✭✭✭@SirAndy
It also explains why you keep coming back to calling yourself a "god" and using the term "casual" to describe other players that aren't worth your time and consideration.
[Snip]. Any player with an average build and amount of game knowledge can light attack their way through everything overland has to offer except world bosses. You can light attack your through a good many of them too, you'll just have to heal on occasion.
Casual doesn't mean bad either, just means people who play the game casually. Being a casual player doesn't mean you don't know how to put set items together, or that you don't know how your abilities work, that you don't know how to make a build, or that you don't know basic game mechanics. There are players who don't know how to do those things though, and while there may be a correlation between between casualness and ability, a more apt description of them would be to simply address them as what they are - bad at the game. Whether it's because they're brand new, or because for their own reasons they just refuse to learn the basics on how to play, whatever the reason is they're simply bad players. "Casual" is only a descriptor of your intensity, but not necessarily one of your skill.
[Edited for bait]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 26, 2020 6:59PM9 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@JayKwellen
Somehow I think that quote is not what it seems. It shows SirAndy being quoted and tagging himself in the quote. I am guessing he is not suggesting he is calling himself a god and others a casual.0 -
Sarousse✭✭✭✭✭
✭...
Hey mate we're not asking to have hard content in overland like in Dark Souls.
We're just asking for a boss to be a boss. And not being able to take more than 2-3 mobs at once. This is standard to easy to difficulty.
Right now, ESO has a near-to-zero difficulty. Naked with a green weapon witout champion points you can still DESTROY the content. Even World of Warcraft has far harder overland content, and it's still very casual and friendly.
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Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...
Hey mate we're not asking to have hard content in overland like in Dark Souls.
We're just asking for a boss to be a boss. And not being able to take more than 2-3 mobs at once. This is standard to easy to difficulty.
Right now, ESO has a near-to-zero difficulty. Naked with a green weapon witout champion points you can still DESTROY the content. Even World of Warcraft has far harder overland content, and it's still very casual and friendly.
This right here. And on top of that people are asking to this "Harder content" to be totally optional.
As in it wouldn't even affect them at all lol.
People are trying to argue for the sake of arguing, and trying to be difficult just because they can.
It's why we can't have nice things.5