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Game full of Bots... and Zos lack of action...
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Rantog✭✭✭✭Reignskream wrote: »All in all, lets hope they come off a little stronger in fixing the bots, but IMO, i believe they will.
Well, there's no doubt they will. The question is will it be too late.
We aren't asking for them to rush out the autodetection measures right now. We are just asking that they send around a GM to get rid of the blatantly obvious botters.
Hang out at said boss encounter (invisible) and observe behavior for 9-10 spawns. Draw conclusions based on all factors involved, rather than cherry picking from a list. Ban the ones that leave no doubt, leave the rest.
Move on to the next dungeon. I have no doubt that if GMs were doing this, they'd easily outpace the rate at which new bots can signup and level up.
All they need to do is add an Overwrite to closed chat windows - and a large, distinct font and color for GM messages.
Then they only need 2 spawns.
1 spawn to see which of the characters are attacking Before the boss appears..
Then send a random sort of Question to each of them on that GM- Message option..
And /BAN any who fail to respond but continue attacking the boss.
At Worst - for a real player - the GM mis-clicks and asks you a question.
Meanwhile, easily a hundred bots an hour, gone.Edited by Rantog on April 22, 2014 7:50PM0 -
Naisho✭I take my words back regarding good job.
Just was in Ondil, Auridon , EU server (last skyshard in Auridon) - TRAINS of bots running around killing everything.
NO acting GM with bannhammer = no future for this game.
I'm frustrated to the point of loosing any interest in this game now.2 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Let's not forget that we don't want to sweep up innocents in the bannings.
Doing things like having the GM ask the player a question, and banning them if they don't give a timely response could prove a false positive:- Player doesn't understand English very well. Yes, we do have non-native English speakers who live inside the United States.
- Player has filtered out private messages by creating a new chat tab.
- Some other chat has pushed the private messages out of the way.
- Player is an extremely slow typer (yes I know lots of hunt and peckers who take up to a minute to type a single tell/reply).
- Player is so immersed/focused on the fighting that they don't notice incoming messages.
- Player is colorblind and doesn't differentiate the private tell from other chat, and thus is not drawn to it.
In reality, a GM need not even contact the bots. It's pretty blatantly obvious who is botting and who is a real player. You can observe the way they move and react to the environment. There names are usually a dead give away, but shouldn't be a sole identifier.
Like I said, don't match them to a single item on a checklist. Match them to ALL items on a checklist, then ban them.0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm sorry but you're totally clueless as to the scale you're talking about here.
I guess you forgot that accounts cost money. If they are having to spend tons of money on new accounts, they aren't going to stick around for long.
It's called cost-benefit analysis.
Take a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost–benefit_analysis
Except they use stolen credit card info so what do they care.0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »Except they use stolen credit card info so what do they care.
- Stop allowing them to steal your information by being a dutz and filling out obvious phishing forms or downloading malicious software.
- They'll eventually run out of accounts, even if they are stealing them.
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Holycannoli wrote: »Except they use stolen credit card info so what do they care.- Stop allowing them to steal your information by being a dutz and filling out obvious phishing forms or downloading malicious software.
- They'll eventually run out of accounts, even if they are stealing them.
They'll run out of accounts? No. They don't. Why? Because they buy new ones using...stolen credit card details. Remember that players aren't the only ones who have their CC details stolen. There's lots of ways for a scammer to get a load of CC details and then sell them to a gold farming company.Edited by rioinsigniab16_ESO on April 22, 2014 8:06PMHow can you soar with eagles.....when you work with turkeys?0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »They'll run out of accounts? No. They don't. Why? Because they buy new ones using...stolen credit card details. Remember that players aren't the only ones who have their CC details stolen.
And just how many stolen CC's do you think they have access to that are active and not being refused/canceled/disputed immediately?
Hundreds? Thousands? ... Millions?
I'd venture to guess it's in the tens of thousands, which is a number easily defeatable. Don't forget they aren't conserving all of these stolen credit cards just to be used here at ESO.
Edited by crush83 on April 22, 2014 8:09PM0 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭[*] Player doesn't understand English very well. Yes, we do have non-native English speakers who live inside the United States.
[*] Player has filtered out private messages by creating a new chat tab.
[*] Some other chat has pushed the private messages out of the way.
[*] Player is an extremely slow typer (yes I know lots of hunt and peckers who take up to a minute to type a single tell/reply).
[*] Player is so immersed/focused on the fighting that they don't notice incoming messages.
[*] Player is colorblind and doesn't differentiate the private tell from other chat, and thus is not drawn to it.
[/list]
In reality, a GM need not even contact the bots. It's pretty blatantly obvious who is botting and who is a real player. You can observe the way they move and react to the environment. There names are usually a dead give away, but shouldn't be a sole identifier.
Like I said, don't match them to a single item on a checklist. Match them to ALL items on a checklist, then ban them.
Okay, let's look at these Points..
Language - they Understood English well enough to agree to a Contract with the company (ULA) didn't they?
Filtered, Other Chats, Color Blind - Read what i said again. FONT (size type) and Overwrite - meaning it forces the GM message Over all other chats and makes an open chat window if there isn't one.
Extremely slow Typist.. who also happens to have such inhumanly fast keyboard reflexes they can Attack a boss Before it gets Placed in the client...
Immersed - immersion.. while surrounded by Bots...
And even if you were a Non-English speaking, Color Blind, depth perception deprived, notoriously slow typing space case named "ahslbvhasd" who just happened to be nearly identical to the bots all around you, and using the same attack(s) as them, And in the same sequence as them, AND in perfect unison with them..
That's what the appeal process is for.
But given the chances of this ever actually happening, I'd be more likely tho throw money away on a lotto ticket.1 -
samooryesordb14_ESOSoul ShrivenMay be full of bots, but at least some of them are getting stuck in just the right places!
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crush83✭✭✭✭And even if you were a Non-English speaking, Color Blind, depth perception deprived, notoriously slow typing space case named "ahslbvhasd" who just happened to be nearly identical to the bots all around you, and using the same attack(s) as them, And in the same sequence as them, AND in perfect unison with them..
That's what I'm saying though. Make a checklist of all the determining factors, and hold that as a standard, instead of fitting someone's behavior to 1 out of 15 factors and banning them for that.
I think we are on the same page here. Just have to be mindful of special needs players. And yes, clicking a mouse button is completely different than typing out a 40 word response that requires critical response to a question.0 -
Xaaz✭✭✭Koltiros1005b14a_ESO wrote: »
Ragnarok is a 2-bit game played by 12 year olds, you're comparing that to a world of pixelated adult brutality created by people with their masters degree in the computer arts, also Ragnarok or whatever the hell it is, isn't holding a big name brand that supports its title like BETHESDA! Your argument could not be more irrelevant here. Also if they placed a GM in the dungeon to creep on these botters and just stand there, real players would gather around them and whine about bugs, it's a GM's job to NOt be apparent in the gaming atmosphere, instead of being the sunlight on a 12 year olds day. And before you use the stupid excuse that they could go invisible or what have you, they would still need to open chat up. So shut up mister Ragnarok GM and let REAL people of business do their job as they HAVE been doing as evidenced by threads like:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/82424/recent-actions-against-exploiters-appealing-a-ban#latest
They care about their product, enough said.
LOL at this clown1 -
YourNameHere✭✭✭I hope something is done. I saw a bot I reported 2 weeks ago, leveled up and in a different dungeon.
As for describing what they are doing in the ticket ... how? I mean ... if they are clearly with a gibberish name, standing in one spot unmoving, using skills just as the mob is appearing, then rinse and repeat ... what more can one tell?
I've done this for each one, and guess what? They're still around, a higher level and in higher level public dungeons.NA Megaserver / RPer
Alinyssa Gaethar - AD || Raahni-do - AD || Wind-In-Tree's-Shadow - DC2 -
Milanna✭✭✭Reignskream wrote: »
MM, no. I'm still level 25 and i was in early access, nice try though. I participate in everything in that zone before i leave, dungeons, quests, achievs, skyshards, etc.
Ive killed bosses surrounded by 10+ bots, and gotten my achiev easily. stand where he spawns, wack him when he spawns, it is not that hard. Again, i understand it sucks.
I dont understand why it is so important to you to point out that you don´t feel it is a big problem, and that you manage to bypass this not so big problem. Obviously this is something that a lot of people are suffering from. Are their experiences not valid according to you?
You seem to take their complaints personally. I assure you, no one blames you for the bots in the game... well, unless you run some.EU-server
Mila the True (Aldmeri Dominion)
Milanna the Cold-hearted (Aldmeri Dominion)
Raphael the Cunning (Ebonheart Pact)
NA-server
Cassius Tanicius (Daggerfall Covenant)
I just found garlic, you blood-suckers better stay clear1 -
Saerydoth✭✭✭✭Actually, they very stealthily put a timer on the public dungeon loot last night. Apparently now you can only get loot from public dungeon bosses once every 3 minutes. The bots are already starting to clear out of there, because it's not profitable for them. No doubt they will find other places to farm, but for now at least, it looks like they won't be concentrating in the public dungeons anymore, which should make them MUCH less annoying.
This will not get rid of bots, not by a long shot - but it is a good first step.Edited by Saerydoth on April 22, 2014 9:11PM0 -
Laerune✭✭✭I have just started doing the Public Dungeons and so far there are alot of bots at the boss. I even saw bots leveling outside the dungeon.
There are alot of bots on the EU side aswell, so I realy hope that ZeniMax pays some attention to our server aswell. The bots are a pain and because of them, I am not able to kill a boss or hit it with a spell.
If this keeps up, this game will be known for having more bots then players and I think we can all agree, that this is something that we do not want to see happen.0 -
It IS simply done. I've done it myself in Ragnarok online, I was a bot-baning GM and I did my job pretty danm right. You just walk into the dungeon and whisper to the bot "Mr askjdalksdjasdk -typical name of the bots- I'm from the Staff, please answer to me or your account might get baned." "I just saw you killing that boss, I know you are there, please asnwer to me." *keeps talking to him for 5 minutes in different chats*. After 5 minutes of no answer, you ban him and take screenshot for when the bot owner comes to complain to the forums. If you want to avoid people arguing that they were not paying attention to the chat window, you just teleport the player to somewhere else and keep talking to him until you got the proof he's a bot. Done. It's as simple as that. One person could do the job. I could do the job. It's really the easiest thing in the world. ZOS is not taking measures at all.Koltiros1005b14a_ESO wrote: »There are numerous threads about this, ZOS knows it and issue and they ARE handling it, maybe not in the public outcry domination way that you'd like it to be, however banning bots is not simply done, it requires that YOU the player give detailed reports on the botters and that the ZOS team reviews these reports to determine if said botter was actually botting, they can't afford to ban people falsely based on loose information. How would you like to be banned because someone said you were botting, and provided little to no information that said otherwise. This isn't like getting rid of gold farmers, it takes time.
From the repetition of your posts I suspect that you sir are a forum bot.
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crush83✭✭✭✭The real immediate goal was to find a way to prevent the bots from impacting the player experience of legitimate players. As far as I'm concerned, Zenimax can take their time finding a long-term solution to automatically handling the bots. As long as bots aren't impeding our play experience, I'm okay with waiting for them to be completely eradicated.
If this simple timer is enough to force the bots out of the caves and dungeons, then it is the right move by Zenimax. If not, then they need to go to the next step and implement diminishing returns.Edited by crush83 on April 22, 2014 9:25PM0 -
dr_zed✭✭✭
So are you telling me solving the bot problem is the players responsability? Really? Wow. You are really a blind fanboy. Fyi, I DO report every bot I encounter, but when I encounter 15 per dungeon I visit, it kinds of descourages me. But do not be mistaken, reporting the bots is not my obligation, and solving the bot issue is not my responsability. Reporting is just a courtesy I do to make ZOS job easier. But I can report every bot in the game, but if ZOS does nothing with that, then it's the same as nothing. ZOS should be taking cards in the issue, wherever or not the players report or not. And, for what I can see, the players ARE reporting, but the bots are still there..Reignskream wrote: »Someone posts their opinion and they're trolling all the sudden? One thing I'm getting sick of is being called a fanboy & a troll because we tend to backup ZOS when people come out and cry over something that THE PLAYERS need to take a stand against. /report is all you have to do and it takes less than a minute, but no, you don't "get paid" to do that.
That's your problem then, not ZOS, because like every job, not everybody can do every single thing with the flip of a switch. Us sending in reports is what helps the community out, and if you cant take a second to help the community out, then why are you here whining in the first place.
Your not even doing your part to make this game a better place, but you will sit around and cry about it, huh?
Just because ZOS doesnt inform you guys about what is going on, does NOT mean things arent happening. Oh but wait, i guess I'm a fanboy and im trolling now, and my opinion is bleak.Edited by dr_zed on April 22, 2014 9:34PM1 -
pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭What does it matter at this point? The economy is completely totally ruined already.End the tedious inventory management game.2
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dr_zed✭✭✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVi2xi-XKzQ
"Oh, it's so difficult to tell between bots and inocent players!"
Idiots...1 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Reignskream wrote: »
MM, no. I'm still level 25 and i was in early access, nice try though. I participate in everything in that zone before i leave, dungeons, quests, achievs, skyshards, etc.
Ive killed bosses surrounded by 10+ bots, and gotten my achiev easily. stand where he spawns, wack him when he spawns, it is not that hard. Again, i understand it sucks.
I dont understand why it is so important to you to point out that you don´t feel it is a big problem, and that you manage to bypass this not so big problem. Obviously this is something that a lot of people are suffering from. Are their experiences not valid according to you?
You seem to take their complaints personally. I assure you, no one blames you for the bots in the game... well, unless you run some.
Because I'm entitled to my opinion, as you are. I take it personally, as i love contributing to forums, and the minute i say my opinion, about bots not being a major issue for me, I'm immediately attacked and called a troll, I'm called a fanboy, and many other things.
Thats the part i take personally, because my opinion is not trolling, but people are so uptight on these CS forums, that god forbid someone posts an opinion in here that isnt something involving a person complaining about something. Its very rude, and it upsets me as i enjoy giving my 2 cents about these issues.
But if someone agrees with ZOS's side of things a little, they're labeled a fanboy troll. its utterly rediculous.
Edited by Reignskream on April 22, 2014 9:52PM0 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭
So are you telling me solving the bot problem is the players responsability? Really? Wow. You are really a blind fanboy. Fyi, I DO report every bot I encounter, but when I encounter 15 per dungeon I visit, it kinds of descourages me. But do not be mistaken, reporting the bots is not my obligation, and solving the bot issue is not my responsability. Reporting is just a courtesy I do to make ZOS job easier. But I can report every bot in the game, but if ZOS does nothing with that, then it's the same as nothing. ZOS should be taking cards in the issue, wherever or not the players report or not. And, for what I can see, the players ARE reporting, but the bots are still there..Reignskream wrote: »Someone posts their opinion and they're trolling all the sudden? One thing I'm getting sick of is being called a fanboy & a troll because we tend to backup ZOS when people come out and cry over something that THE PLAYERS need to take a stand against. /report is all you have to do and it takes less than a minute, but no, you don't "get paid" to do that.
That's your problem then, not ZOS, because like every job, not everybody can do every single thing with the flip of a switch. Us sending in reports is what helps the community out, and if you cant take a second to help the community out, then why are you here whining in the first place.
Your not even doing your part to make this game a better place, but you will sit around and cry about it, huh?
Just because ZOS doesnt inform you guys about what is going on, does NOT mean things arent happening. Oh but wait, i guess I'm a fanboy and im trolling now, and my opinion is bleak.
If i said it was your responsibility, i would have said that. All i said was it doesnt hurt to help out. Please learn to read, and stop assuming what you think I am saying. I wasn't even talking to you in the first place.
Thats the exact kind of stuff im talking about. A person comes in, doesnt have an issue with the bots, puts his opinion in, and all the sudden he is a fanboy troll.
This bs has to stop, and people need to be able to hear others opinions without being such a whiney baby about it. Reporting isnt your obligation, but you know what, if people have the entitlement to sit here and complain about it, when they dont help out themselves, then i find that to be extremely hypocritical.
Edited by Reignskream on April 22, 2014 10:06PM0 -
Etchesketch✭✭✭✭Bots in public dungeons is THE game killer, only slightly ahead of terrible grouping interaction between friends. I say the public bots ahead of it only because it will affect more people early in their game experience and force them to opt out of subscribing faster.
Astonishing that ZoS doesn't see it.The number one rule of online gaming is now and has always been, Never play on Patch Day.1 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Etchesketch wrote: »Astonishing that ZoS doesn't see it.
Because ZoS isn't in the subscriber phase yet. They are still banking on new copies purchased.0 -
Noth✭✭✭✭Etchesketch wrote: »Bots in public dungeons is THE game killer, only slightly ahead of terrible grouping interaction between friends. I say the public bots ahead of it only because it will affect more people early in their game experience and force them to opt out of subscribing faster.
Astonishing that ZoS doesn't see it.
They see it, they are working on it. the GM approach is also a reactive approach. Designing an actual backend system like other MMOs have is the best way to lessen botting, and that takes time.2 -
crush83✭✭✭✭They see it, they are working on it. the GM approach is also a reactive approach. Designing an actual backend system like other MMOs have is the best way to lessen botting, and that takes time.
Developers develop that system. GMs should be manually banning bots as they come across them in the mean time.0 -
Etchesketch✭✭✭✭Etchesketch wrote: »Bots in public dungeons is THE game killer, only slightly ahead of terrible grouping interaction between friends. I say the public bots ahead of it only because it will affect more people early in their game experience and force them to opt out of subscribing faster.
Astonishing that ZoS doesn't see it.
They see it, they are working on it. the GM approach is also a reactive approach. Designing an actual backend system like other MMOs have is the best way to lessen botting, and that takes time.
Sorry this argument and all the other like them don't hold water.
ZoS needs to do something that gets the bots out NOW. Not next week, not next year.
They are losing customers NOW.
Get in game GMS and ban these bots today.
The number one rule of online gaming is now and has always been, Never play on Patch Day.1 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Etchesketch wrote: »They are losing customers NOW.
Get in game GMS and ban these bots today.
No one will remember how bad the bots were 2-3 months after they've been severely diminished. It's a pressing concern now, but once it's been handled, everyone will be back in their happy place.Edited by crush83 on April 22, 2014 10:08PM1 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Etchesketch wrote: »Etchesketch wrote: »Bots in public dungeons is THE game killer, only slightly ahead of terrible grouping interaction between friends. I say the public bots ahead of it only because it will affect more people early in their game experience and force them to opt out of subscribing faster.
Astonishing that ZoS doesn't see it.
They see it, they are working on it. the GM approach is also a reactive approach. Designing an actual backend system like other MMOs have is the best way to lessen botting, and that takes time.
Sorry this argument and all the other like them don't hold water.
ZoS needs to do something that gets the bots out NOW. Not next week, not next year.
They are losing customers NOW.
Get in game GMS and ban these bots today.
Thats clearly not going to happen. They're doing what they can behind the scenes, and im sure a fix will be around soon. Fact is, bots are an ongoing thing, and when one bot is banned, there is another to take his place.
They're bots in WoW still, and the games been out for 10 yrs. Bots are not going to go away any time soon, but im sure they're working on a fix to get them out quicker.0 -
Noth✭✭✭✭Etchesketch wrote: »Etchesketch wrote: »Bots in public dungeons is THE game killer, only slightly ahead of terrible grouping interaction between friends. I say the public bots ahead of it only because it will affect more people early in their game experience and force them to opt out of subscribing faster.
Astonishing that ZoS doesn't see it.
They see it, they are working on it. the GM approach is also a reactive approach. Designing an actual backend system like other MMOs have is the best way to lessen botting, and that takes time.
Sorry this argument and all the other like them don't hold water.
ZoS needs to do something that gets the bots out NOW. Not next week, not next year.
They are losing customers NOW.
Get in game GMS and ban these bots today.
Completely unrealistic. GMs will not be able to ban fast enough. Further hiring GMs to do such takes time.
There is realism and idealism. Guess which one occurs more in the real world.1