Should Wrath of Elements - staff be looked at...

Flaaklypa · November 2020

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

sharquez wrote: »

I mean the only thing I would concede is that it should be purgable like nearly everything else in this game. But the damage/cost is fine.

yes, 20k over 10 seconds for free is a perfectly balanced damage/cost

YandereGirlfriend · November 2020

No, I have barely noticed it.

Just your weekly reminder to:

Stop trying to treat the symptoms rather than the illness itself.

josiahva · November 2020

No, please let me continue to kill people with ease...

BohnT2 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Yet another thread that is started by PvPers calling for nerfs not caring at all how it affects PvE...what a surprise...If you dont like procs dominating in no-CP....dont play no-CP because I hatre to break it to you...but procs are not going away. This is just more evidence they need to use completely different sets in PvP than PvE...its not even the same game.

Procs dominate any form of pvp they're better in cp and they're better in no cp than stat based sets but thank you for showing that you have now clue about pvp

lol, The difference is that in no-CP they compensate for lower stat pools and CP buffs....so yeah, definately stronger in PvP where players have LESS mitigation, LESS heals, and LESS burst damage. procs have dominated in PvP for YEARS now...and that is exactly my point...proc sets should not be in PvP at all if you want PvP to be purely skill-based(in this case, I use the word "skill" to define who is better at pushing buttons faster in a certain order). Why is everyone so resistant to the idea that PvP and PvE need to be completely seperated? Different skills, different sets entirely. Do you have any idea how many things they have nerfed to make PvP players happy? I play both PvP and PvE and you know the only ones who call for nerfs are those on the PvP side because something or another kills them, it is very rare that the PvE side calls for nerfs so what you have is a small PvP population disproportionately affecting the PVE side of the game. THIS COULD ALL BE STOPPED DEAD IN ITS TRACKS BY SEPARATING THEM. To be clear...this would not stop PvP players from calling for nerfs to this, that, or the other, but it would stop it from affecting PvE when they do.

Now, I am sure wrath of elements is very strong in PvP and probably overperforming compared to other skills, but that is still no reason to ask for it to be ruined for the PvE side of the game. I also agree this skill is not needed for PvE at all, that damage is already ridiculously high and far more than needed to complete the content already...but power creep and the difficulty of PvE content is a separate issue entirely. How would you feel if they decided to cut the speed of rapids by 50% because it was making vet Castle Thorn too easy? Or if they decided to nerf Vigor because some crazy stamina healer build somehow made it overperform in some PvE fight or another? Lucky you though, since you only PvP, you don't have to worry about that happening...the nerfs only go one way.

Sergykid · November 2020

if ever fixed, most probably it will be fixed at next patch in a few months. So until then abuse all you can this weapon, everyone wear it, because otherwise it might not get fixed even then.

nqvarihs · November 2020

op should have precised whether people answering the poll have seen the item in pvp, seems like there's a bunch that didnt catch that

anyone who thinks it is fine as it currently is needs to stay away from any kind of balance discussion

josiahva wrote: »

lol, The difference is that in no-CP they compensate for lower stat pools and CP buffs....so yeah, definately stronger in PvP where players have LESS mitigation, LESS heals, and LESS burst damage. procs have dominated in PvP for YEARS now...and that is exactly my point...proc sets should not be in PvP at all if you want PvP to be purely skill-based(in this case, I use the word "skill" to define who is better at pushing buttons faster in a certain order). Why is everyone so resistant to the idea that PvP and PvE need to be completely seperated? Different skills, different sets entirely. Do you have any idea how many things they have nerfed to make PvP players happy? I play both PvP and PvE and you know the only ones who call for nerfs are those on the PvP side because something or another kills them, it is very rare that the PvE side calls for nerfs so what you have is a small PvP population disproportionately affecting the PVE side of the game. THIS COULD ALL BE STOPPED DEAD IN ITS TRACKS BY SEPARATING THEM. To be clear...this would not stop PvP players from calling for nerfs to this, that, or the other, but it would stop it from affecting PvE when they do.

Now, I am sure wrath of elements is very strong in PvP and probably overperforming compared to other skills, but that is still no reason to ask for it to be ruined for the PvE side of the game. I also agree this skill is not needed for PvE at all, that damage is already ridiculously high and far more than needed to complete the content already...but power creep and the difficulty of PvE content is a separate issue entirely. How would you feel if they decided to cut the speed of rapids by 50% because it was making vet Castle Thorn too easy? Or if they decided to nerf Vigor because some crazy stamina healer build somehow made it overperform in some PvE fight or another? Lucky you though, since you only PvP, you don't have to worry about that happening...the nerfs only go one way.

??

procs were nowhere close to meta before greymoor/stonethorn for a pretty long time, unless you decide to classify fury/clever alch/7th/balorgh as the same kind of procs as sheer venom or vma 2h

if you think pvp is all about some dumb rotation like pve dummy humping, then maybe you need to play pvp

the only people that are actually resistant against the idea that pvp and pve should be balanced separately is zos themselves

and yeah, pve players dont ask for nerfs because there is no actual balance in pve, just endless powercreep to buff whoever got the shorter end of the stick in the last patch. powercreep which totally has 0 effect on pvp, trust 100%. we totally arent having one of the shittiest meta the game ever had because zos tried to "buff" proc sets for pve

Or if they decided to nerf Vigor because some crazy stamina healer build somehow made it overperform in some PvE fight or another? Lucky you though, since you only PvP, you don't have to worry about that happening...the nerfs only go one way.

yeah we totally didnt lose aoe vigor because it was overperforming in pve, right? just like off balance that was balanced for pve dps and is now garbage in pvp? or bash being literally 0 damage because some pvers cried they didnt want to bash weave? or mythics being trash / nerfed into oblivion because they would be broken in pve (thrassian, pale order)?

Dracane · November 2020

Other ( please explain)

Firstly, it can be line of sighted, which is every stamina players favorite activity and 2nd nature. So very easy to cancel.

All classes have an easy answer to it.

Nightblades can cancel it with cloak
Sorcerers can cancel it with ball of lightning
Templars and Necromancers can easily purge it, Wardens as well but not as easily. Some here say that it can not be purged. But I am so certain that it was purgeable in our tests. If I am wrong, then disregard this.

Dragonknight as always with movement related counters, have none. But they just get over 3k spell resistence for free from their passive. So they are but mildly vulnerable anyway.

Also, barely anyone complains when yet another broken stamina proc set releases every patch. But fear ye when magicka builds suddenly get a decent proc set. Then the sky falls.

Of course, none of that is as easily done when you get zerged.
But let me quote a wise man from long ago.
"When you you have 10 people on you, you should die"
Eric Wrobel.

idk · November 2020

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

I was already concerned on PTS and when I saw that it would go live like this, but now, after seeing for myself how utterly broken it is, I need your opinion to decide:
In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)
This is already by itself THE strongest proc set out there: Icy conjurer deals a little less damage 21k and is single target. https://eso-sets.com/set/icy-conjuror

What makes it OP:

- AoE damage on a set that as single target would be strong already
- no brainer application and easy reapplication with zero cost or skill (undodgeable, unblockable) , click and go
- 15 meter range (Zaan was only 8 meters and dominated no-cp until nerf
- cannot be LoSed

I have played all classes in PvP more stam than mag and got my fair share of exp. But this set turns my already oppressive playstyle into an unstoppable onslaught. Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Stamplar and stamsorc have no innate access to major fracture/breach (which is now one, thanks ZoS) so backbaring this was a no-brainer choice.
Pair with Malacath, lover mundus and sharpened backbar, add double dot poisons to the mix, click 1 skill and starting mowing your target down with your spammable.
If they CC and start to outrun it...well, I can just break free (split second if server lag allows) and stay in range anyways. 1vXing has become so much easier, and although I enjoyed the first couple of hours abusing this set. Using it, makes me feel bad.

Either adjust damage OR range of the tether OR the duration OR whatever it is that must be done to address this. Entire groups in BG have started abusing this and it will start to dominate all MMR ranges in no time. Put a stop to this madness please. I have started to dislike this set even more than Syvarra (which also needs nerfing, but that's a story for another day)..

Best regards,
VoC

its about same strength as zaan so its fine

would be ok to reduce the range of it to be inline with zaan
so range from 15m to 8m

maybe ad cd
and remove aoe

would be nerf enought

no dmg nerf!

No offense but you say no yet suggest some changes to nerf it some.

Firstmep · November 2020

Other ( please explain)

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Just your weekly reminder to:

Stop trying to treat the symptoms rather than the illness itself.

I run it with draugrkin and its every bit as broken with it.
Malacath is an issue, but so are procsets.

Dracane · November 2020

Other ( please explain)

Firstmep wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Just your weekly reminder to:

Stop trying to treat the symptoms rather than the illness itself.

I run it with draugrkin and its every bit as broken with it.
Malacath is an issue, but so are procsets.

Well, worry not. Next update it gets nerfed. Markarth must be sold, then they will destroy it like Zaan.

Hence I would not even bother with it. It is shortlived joy/frustration. Nothing in ESO ever stays strong for more than half a year. No fun and power allowed!

BohnT2 · November 2020

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

Dracane wrote: »

Firstly, it can be line of sighted, which is every stamina players favorite activity and 2nd nature. So very easy to cancel.

All classes have an easy answer to it.

Nightblades can cancel it with cloak
Sorcerers can cancel it with ball of lightning
Templars and Necromancers can easily purge it, Wardens as well but not as easily. Some here say that it can not be purged. But I am so certain that it was purgeable in our tests. If I am wrong, then disregard this.
Dragonknight as always with movement related counters, have none. But they just get over 3k spell resistence for free from their passive. So they are but mildly vulnerable anyway.

Also, barely anyone complains when yet another broken stamina proc set releases every patch. But fear ye when magicka builds suddenly get a decent proc set. Then the sky falls.

Of course, none of that is as easily done when you get zerged.
But let me quote a wise man from long ago.
"When you you have 10 people on you, you should die"
Eric Wrobel.

You can't purge the set.
3,3k spell resistance does nothing meaningful that's 5% mitigation.

There have been countless of calls to nerf all procs especially Hunter's venom, sheer venom, vate 2h ...

The set is busted and should be clapped like every other proc as well.

vesselwiththepestle · November 2020

No, please let me continue to kill people with ease...

When I tested this set, it didn't worked on the enemy you are tethered with, so I don't understand how you can compare it to Single Target sets like Zaan.

Dracane · November 2020

Other ( please explain)

BohnT2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Firstly, it can be line of sighted, which is every stamina players favorite activity and 2nd nature. So very easy to cancel.

All classes have an easy answer to it.

Nightblades can cancel it with cloak
Sorcerers can cancel it with ball of lightning
Templars and Necromancers can easily purge it, Wardens as well but not as easily. Some here say that it can not be purged. But I am so certain that it was purgeable in our tests. If I am wrong, then disregard this.
Dragonknight as always with movement related counters, have none. But they just get over 3k spell resistence for free from their passive. So they are but mildly vulnerable anyway.

Also, barely anyone complains when yet another broken stamina proc set releases every patch. But fear ye when magicka builds suddenly get a decent proc set. Then the sky falls.

Of course, none of that is as easily done when you get zerged.
But let me quote a wise man from long ago.
"When you you have 10 people on you, you should die"
Eric Wrobel.

You can't purge the set.
3,3k spell resistance does nothing meaningful that's 5% mitigation.

There have been countless of calls to nerf all procs especially Hunter's venom, sheer venom, vate 2h ...

The set is busted and should be clapped like every other proc as well.

I am all for it. I have little regard for proc sets. Though this one here can hardly compare to all those sets that actually put dots on you that follow you around. This here is so much less harmful.

Then again, it will get overnerfed for pvp like Zaan anyway.

BohnT2 · November 2020

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

When I tested this set, it didn't worked on the enemy you are tethered with, so I don't understand how you can compare it to Single Target sets like Zaan.

It was bugged in the first week of pts.
Back then it applied all ticks to the target you were tethered that should have applied to targets in the tether.

The set on live hits the initial target and everyone in the tether.

Pauls · November 2020

No, I have barely noticed it.

Looks like L2P problem

Voice_of_Chronicles · November 2020

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

When I tested this set, it didn't worked on the enemy you are tethered with, so I don't understand how you can compare it to Single Target sets like Zaan.

Trust me, it works just fine... you are right, it cannot be compared to zaan, it's less bursty but deals just as much damage in total, yet, it has twice the range and hits in an AoE, so it's just alot stronger in every fight besides a gank.

Also I don't see why people don't want to see that the tooltip makes it the sinlge most dmging proc set (+ AoE)

Pauls wrote: »

Looks like L2P problem

can't be cleansed and can't be outrun (or it would be the staffs users L2P issue)

To those PvE players enjoying the nice damage, I understand you don't want it to be nerfed, but as PvP and PvE are not seperately addressed in ESO, you will see this set being used by 1/3 of pvp population in no time (given they need to finish vat arena first)... it's going to be hell.. in no cp and cp

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2020

nqvarihs wrote: »

op should have precised whether people answering the poll have seen the item in pvp, seems like there's a bunch that didnt catch that

anyone who thinks it is fine as it currently is needs to stay away from any kind of balance discussion

josiahva wrote: »

lol, The difference is that in no-CP they compensate for lower stat pools and CP buffs....so yeah, definately stronger in PvP where players have LESS mitigation, LESS heals, and LESS burst damage. procs have dominated in PvP for YEARS now...and that is exactly my point...proc sets should not be in PvP at all if you want PvP to be purely skill-based(in this case, I use the word "skill" to define who is better at pushing buttons faster in a certain order). Why is everyone so resistant to the idea that PvP and PvE need to be completely seperated? Different skills, different sets entirely. Do you have any idea how many things they have nerfed to make PvP players happy? I play both PvP and PvE and you know the only ones who call for nerfs are those on the PvP side because something or another kills them, it is very rare that the PvE side calls for nerfs so what you have is a small PvP population disproportionately affecting the PVE side of the game. THIS COULD ALL BE STOPPED DEAD IN ITS TRACKS BY SEPARATING THEM. To be clear...this would not stop PvP players from calling for nerfs to this, that, or the other, but it would stop it from affecting PvE when they do.

Now, I am sure wrath of elements is very strong in PvP and probably overperforming compared to other skills, but that is still no reason to ask for it to be ruined for the PvE side of the game. I also agree this skill is not needed for PvE at all, that damage is already ridiculously high and far more than needed to complete the content already...but power creep and the difficulty of PvE content is a separate issue entirely. How would you feel if they decided to cut the speed of rapids by 50% because it was making vet Castle Thorn too easy? Or if they decided to nerf Vigor because some crazy stamina healer build somehow made it overperform in some PvE fight or another? Lucky you though, since you only PvP, you don't have to worry about that happening...the nerfs only go one way.

??

procs were nowhere close to meta before greymoor/stonethorn for a pretty long time, unless you decide to classify fury/clever alch/7th/balorgh as the same kind of procs as sheer venom or vma 2h

if you think pvp is all about some dumb rotation like pve dummy humping, then maybe you need to play pvp

the only people that are actually resistant against the idea that pvp and pve should be balanced separately is zos themselves

and yeah, pve players dont ask for nerfs because there is no actual balance in pve, just endless powercreep to buff whoever got the shorter end of the stick in the last patch. powercreep which totally has 0 effect on pvp, trust 100%. we totally arent having one of the shittiest meta the game ever had because zos tried to "buff" proc sets for pve

Or if they decided to nerf Vigor because some crazy stamina healer build somehow made it overperform in some PvE fight or another? Lucky you though, since you only PvP, you don't have to worry about that happening...the nerfs only go one way.

yeah we totally didnt lose aoe vigor because it was overperforming in pve, right? just like off balance that was balanced for pve dps and is now garbage in pvp? or bash being literally 0 damage because some pvers cried they didnt want to bash weave? or mythics being trash / nerfed into oblivion because they would be broken in pve (thrassian, pale order)?

Ummm... Rotations absolutely exist in PVP. Burst rotations, Defensive rotations, Escape rotations. Is it a static 2 minute rotation that is consistent the whole time? But acting like people dont use the same combo of buttons in PVP is insane. That is the "skill" he was talking about. Simmer down.

Firstmep · November 2020

Other ( please explain)

Dracane wrote: »

Firstly, it can be line of sighted, which is every stamina players favorite activity and 2nd nature. So very easy to cancel.

All classes have an easy answer to it.

Nightblades can cancel it with cloak
Sorcerers can cancel it with ball of lightning
Templars and Necromancers can easily purge it, Wardens as well but not as easily. Some here say that it can not be purged. But I am so certain that it was purgeable in our tests. If I am wrong, then disregard this.
Dragonknight as always with movement related counters, have none. But they just get over 3k spell resistence for free from their passive. So they are but mildly vulnerable anyway.

Also, barely anyone complains when yet another broken stamina proc set releases every patch. But fear ye when magicka builds suddenly get a decent proc set. Then the sky falls.

Of course, none of that is as easily done when you get zerged.
But let me quote a wise man from long ago.
"When you you have 10 people on you, you should die"
Eric Wrobel.

I mean, Ive seen more Stam users run it than mag xD

Zekka · November 2020

As much as I like it because OP magicka toys are pretty rare, it's definitely too strong right now.
It doesn't help that just like Draugrkin, it's much easier and stronger to use on stamina builds... thanks to ZOS stupid changes like merging major fracture and breach into one debuff so it's not even like you sacrifice much by backbarring it on a stam character.

And it should absolutely be cleanseable.

Raideen · November 2020

No, I have barely noticed it.

jaws343 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Its ridiculous to suggest that a ranged class should only perform in melee range. So...no.

There are 3 primarily melee ranged mag classes that can utilize this set very effectively. Unless you think DK, Necro, and Templar are primarily ranged classes. Necro have tether mechanics that require melee, and DK and Templars have melee spammables.

And yet there are more ranged options included in this, outside of the fact that as a whole stamina (non-staff builds) are more rampant than magicka.

Bashev · November 2020

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

ZoS cleverly divided the damage between all elemental types so people dont see the big numbers in their recap and start complaining about this set. Good one ZoS!

Bashev · November 2020

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

I also want to add that this set is unpurgable and los does not work neither. The only way is to move far away from your target.

Firstmep · November 2020

Other ( please explain)

Bashev wrote: »

I also want to add that this set is unpurgable and los does not work neither. The only way is to move far away from your target.

Los breaks it all the time for more.
So does cloak, which is funny since the tether is considered aoe(it scales with lightning staff 8%) , but it's not purge able.
I wonder who comes up with the rules for stuff like this,
I think this set is in dire need of some good Ole fashion "standardisation"

vesselwiththepestle · November 2020

No, please let me continue to kill people with ease...

Finally I can have killing blows on my DK without Leap...

The effect is clearly visible. Good players just move away, for example Sorcs are invincible to this set: They just streak away. Making it impossible to purge gives me a decent chance against Templars, although it's funny, when they wear Wrath of Elements, too. In most cases if one players wears Crimson and the other one does not, Crimson will decide the fight. I don't know how often I was already in execute range myself, got healed up by Crimson and could defeat my enemy...

So I don't think Wrath of Elements itself is overpowered, it is a combination of sets which together form a very strong build.

Oh, and LOS easily breaks Wrath of Elements. Those players running around in towers, they are really hard to get with it...

Bashev · November 2020

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Finally I can have killing blows on my DK without Leap...

The effect is clearly visible. Good players just move away, for example Sorcs are invincible to this set: They just streak away. Making it impossible to purge gives me a decent chance against Templars, although it's funny, when they wear Wrath of Elements, too. In most cases if one players wears Crimson and the other one does not, Crimson will decide the fight. I don't know how often I was already in execute range myself, got healed up by Crimson and could defeat my enemy...

So I don't think Wrath of Elements itself is overpowered, it is a combination of sets which together form a very strong build.

Oh, and LOS easily breaks Wrath of Elements. Those players running around in towers, they are really hard to get with it...

In BGs, the beam goes through columns. They dont break it. Maybe in Cyro towers is different.

Firstmep · November 2020

Other ( please explain)

Bashev wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Finally I can have killing blows on my DK without Leap...

The effect is clearly visible. Good players just move away, for example Sorcs are invincible to this set: They just streak away. Making it impossible to purge gives me a decent chance against Templars, although it's funny, when they wear Wrath of Elements, too. In most cases if one players wears Crimson and the other one does not, Crimson will decide the fight. I don't know how often I was already in execute range myself, got healed up by Crimson and could defeat my enemy...

So I don't think Wrath of Elements itself is overpowered, it is a combination of sets which together form a very strong build.

Oh, and LOS easily breaks Wrath of Elements. Those players running around in towers, they are really hard to get with it...

In BGs, the beam goes through columns. They dont break it. Maybe in Cyro towers is different.

Ive seen people in bgs break it behind los all the time.

Honestly what counts as los and what doesnt is anyones guess...

Some maps have small pebbles that you cant streak thru for example..

vesselwiththepestle · November 2020

No, please let me continue to kill people with ease...

Bashev wrote: »

In BGs, the beam goes through columns. They dont break it. Maybe in Cyro towers is different.

Sounds like a bug in BG's, you should write a report. Although many skills need LOS only to active (that's why a projectile still can hit you through walls if you broke los only after it got shot), it doesn't seem to work like this with the tether from Wrath of Elements. It would be interesting to test it in PVE situations. In Cyrodiil you definitely can break LOS and stop the tether.

KhajiitLivesMatter · November 2020

No, please let me continue to kill people with ease...

Bashev wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Balancing around no CP PVP is wrong for every aspect of the game.

Actually CP should be removed and only cosmetic nodes should be added, like faster speed outside of combat, faster gathering and so on

actually that would kill the game 50%+ of all pvper would hate it -> leave game
MANY pve guys would do the same

no cp is the tiny part of the game pve and atleast 50% of pvp is cp
so its logical to balance after the majority

hexnotic · November 2020

Other ( please explain)

Quick question, if you ele drain with the staff equipped and then bar swap does the tether keep tethering?

Bashev · November 2020

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Balancing around no CP PVP is wrong for every aspect of the game.

Actually CP should be removed and only cosmetic nodes should be added, like faster speed outside of combat, faster gathering and so on

actually that would kill the game 50%+ of all pvper would hate it -> leave game
MANY pve guys would do the same

no cp is the tiny part of the game pve and atleast 50% of pvp is cp
so its logical to balance after the majority

ZoS took all our power from the classes when CP came, dont worry with the new sets coming in, soon they will take all that power from CP too.

Xuhora · November 2020

hexnotic wrote: »

Quick question, if you ele drain with the staff equipped and then bar swap does the tether keep tethering?

the restostaff from VH works that way, so i would assume the destroystaff does as well