Should Wrath of Elements - staff be looked at...

Voice_of_Chronicles

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

I was already concerned on PTS and when I saw that it would go live like this, but now, after seeing for myself how utterly broken it is, I need your opinion to decide:
In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)
This is already by itself THE strongest proc set out there: Icy conjurer deals a little less damage 21k and is single target. https://eso-sets.com/set/icy-conjuror

What makes it OP:

- AoE damage on a set that as single target would be strong already
- no brainer application and easy reapplication with zero cost or skill (undodgeable, unblockable) , click and go
- 15 meter range (Zaan was only 8 meters and dominated no-cp until nerf
- cannot be LoSed
- IT CANNOT BE PURGED/CLEANSED

I have played all classes in PvP more stam than mag and got my fair share of exp. But this set turns my already oppressive playstyle into an unstoppable onslaught. Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Stamplar and stamsorc have no innate access to major fracture/breach (which is now one, thanks ZoS) so backbaring this was a no-brainer choice.
Pair with Malacath, lover mundus and sharpened backbar, add double dot poisons to the mix, click 1 skill and starting mowing your target down with your spammable.
If they CC and start to outrun it...well, I can just break free (split second if server lag allows) and stay in range anyways. 1vXing has become so much easier, and although I enjoyed the first couple of hours abusing this set. Using it, makes me feel bad.

Either adjust damage OR range of the tether OR the duration OR whatever it is that must be done to address this. Entire groups in BG have started abusing this and it will start to dominate all MMR ranges in no time. Put a stop to this madness please. I have started to dislike this set even more than Syvarra (which also needs nerfing, but that's a story for another day)..

Best regards,
VoC

KhajiitLivesMatter

No, please let me continue to kill people with ease...

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

I was already concerned on PTS and when I saw that it would go live like this, but now, after seeing for myself how utterly broken it is, I need your opinion to decide:
In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)
This is already by itself THE strongest proc set out there: Icy conjurer deals a little less damage 21k and is single target. https://eso-sets.com/set/icy-conjuror

What makes it OP:

- AoE damage on a set that as single target would be strong already
- no brainer application and easy reapplication with zero cost or skill (undodgeable, unblockable) , click and go
- 15 meter range (Zaan was only 8 meters and dominated no-cp until nerf
- cannot be LoSed

I have played all classes in PvP more stam than mag and got my fair share of exp. But this set turns my already oppressive playstyle into an unstoppable onslaught. Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Stamplar and stamsorc have no innate access to major fracture/breach (which is now one, thanks ZoS) so backbaring this was a no-brainer choice.
Pair with Malacath, lover mundus and sharpened backbar, add double dot poisons to the mix, click 1 skill and starting mowing your target down with your spammable.
If they CC and start to outrun it...well, I can just break free (split second if server lag allows) and stay in range anyways. 1vXing has become so much easier, and although I enjoyed the first couple of hours abusing this set. Using it, makes me feel bad.

Either adjust damage OR range of the tether OR the duration OR whatever it is that must be done to address this. Entire groups in BG have started abusing this and it will start to dominate all MMR ranges in no time. Put a stop to this madness please. I have started to dislike this set even more than Syvarra (which also needs nerfing, but that's a story for another day)..

Best regards,
VoC

its about same strength as zaan so its fine

would be ok to reduce the range of it to be inline with zaan
so range from 15m to 8m

maybe ad cd
and remove aoe

would be nerf enought

no dmg nerf!

Solariken

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

My suggestions:

It should break when LOS is lost. Obviously.

Remove the cooldown, but keep it one target at a time.

Reduce damage slightly but increase range to 22m.

Make the damage type match the staff type. No idea why ZOS keeps crapping on people who want to play pure mages like frost, fire etc.

WrathOfInnos

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

I was already concerned on PTS and when I saw that it would go live like this, but now, after seeing for myself how utterly broken it is, I need your opinion to decide:
In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)
This is already by itself THE strongest proc set out there: Icy conjurer deals a little less damage 21k and is single target. https://eso-sets.com/set/icy-conjuror

What makes it OP:

- AoE damage on a set that as single target would be strong already
- no brainer application and easy reapplication with zero cost or skill (undodgeable, unblockable) , click and go
- 15 meter range (Zaan was only 8 meters and dominated no-cp until nerf
- cannot be LoSed

I have played all classes in PvP more stam than mag and got my fair share of exp. But this set turns my already oppressive playstyle into an unstoppable onslaught. Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Stamplar and stamsorc have no innate access to major fracture/breach (which is now one, thanks ZoS) so backbaring this was a no-brainer choice.
Pair with Malacath, lover mundus and sharpened backbar, add double dot poisons to the mix, click 1 skill and starting mowing your target down with your spammable.
If they CC and start to outrun it...well, I can just break free (split second if server lag allows) and stay in range anyways. 1vXing has become so much easier, and although I enjoyed the first couple of hours abusing this set. Using it, makes me feel bad.

Either adjust damage OR range of the tether OR the duration OR whatever it is that must be done to address this. Entire groups in BG have started abusing this and it will start to dominate all MMR ranges in no time. Put a stop to this madness please. I have started to dislike this set even more than Syvarra (which also needs nerfing, but that's a story for another day)..

Best regards,
VoC

its about same strength as zaan so its fine

would be ok to reduce the range of it to be inline with zaan
so range from 15m to 8m

maybe ad cd
and remove aoe

would be nerf enought

no dmg nerf!

The Zaan range nerf killed the set for a lot of PVE content. It still cannot hit dragons even if standing right next to them because tether range calculations are done poorly. I don’t think this set is being used much for PVE, but it’s worth noting that sometimes seemingly excessive tooltip range is necessary for it to function at all.

BohnT2

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

It's completely overtuned in pvp.
Casting a free skill will grant you:
Major breach, 1680 magicka over 10 seconds, 11-17000 damage over 10 seconds on a single player.

This staff is 4 times more powerful than almost any dot skill we have access too most of them hit for less than 700 every two seconds this staff hits for up to 1.7k every second on a build with 45k Hp and almost no offensive investment.

It's an epitome how proc sets have taken over pvp and are ruining it completely by heavily outperforming stat based builds and abilities

BohnT2

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

Solariken wrote: »

My suggestions:

It should break when LOS is lost. Obviously.

Remove the cooldown, but keep it one target at a time.

Reduce damage slightly but increase range to 22m.

Make the damage type match the staff type. No idea why ZOS keeps crapping on people who want to play pure mages like frost, fire etc.

It breaks on LOS.

Removing the cooldown would remove the last bit of counterplay this set has that is already overperforming.

Voice_of_Chronicles

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

[/quote]

its about same strength as zaan so its fine

would be ok to reduce the range of it to be inline with zaan
so range from 15m to 8m

maybe ad cd
and remove aoe

would be nerf enought

no dmg nerf![/quote]

So you basically agree as well, that it needs a nerf, right?
Thanks for your feedback so far.

Anyone got any more experience with this set they want to share with everyone else?

BraidasNM

No, I have barely noticed it.

I think it's ok but my opinion may change. It's a lot of dmg but it's rare it hits me for more than a couple ticks. Stam slotting it is also funny to see

josiahva

No, please let me continue to kill people with ease...

Yet another thread that is started by PvPers calling for nerfs not caring at all how it affects PvE...what a surprise...If you dont like procs dominating in no-CP....dont play no-CP because I hatre to break it to you...but procs are not going away. This is just more evidence they need to use completely different sets in PvP than PvE...its not even the same game.

Bashev

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

josiahva wrote: »

Yet another thread that is started by PvPers calling for nerfs not caring at all how it affects PvE...what a surprise...If you dont like procs dominating in no-CP....dont play no-CP because I hatre to break it to you...but procs are not going away. This is just more evidence they need to use completely different sets in PvP than PvE...its not even the same game.

As as you said dont play noCP you are telling me dont play Battlegrounds, I can tell you why do you care for the nerfs, dont play vet content and just do overland and normal dungeons, you can do them naked.

BohnT2

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

josiahva wrote: »

Yet another thread that is started by PvPers calling for nerfs not caring at all how it affects PvE...what a surprise...If you dont like procs dominating in no-CP....dont play no-CP because I hatre to break it to you...but procs are not going away. This is just more evidence they need to use completely different sets in PvP than PvE...its not even the same game.

Procs dominate any form of pvp they're better in cp and they're better in no cp than stat based sets but thank you for showing that you have now clue about pvp

dcam86b14_ESO

No, I have barely noticed it.

Anyone with some sense of this, just moves away.

BohnT2

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

Anyone with some sense of this, just moves away.

Anyone with 3 braincells will follow...

sharquez

No, I have barely noticed it.

Nope. Absolutely not its exactly where the intend for it to be as it stand it is magicka's counterpart to the merciless charge, that stam users enjoy so much as far as powerful low cost damage goes. Procs and dots are not going anywhere, and i have found it to be a cool new tool in my arsenal for both PVE and PVP.

itscompton

No, I have barely noticed it.

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)


Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Hard to take you seriously when your argument boils down to 800-1.5K DPS is melting people. Even at the highest quoted damage It would literally take this proc a full 4 seconds to eat 1/4 of the health bar on my glass cannon MagNB.

YandereGirlfriend

No, I have barely noticed it.

Solariken wrote: »

My suggestions:

It should break when LOS is lost. Obviously.

Remove the cooldown, but keep it one target at a time.

Reduce damage slightly but increase range to 22m.

Make the damage type match the staff type. No idea why ZOS keeps crapping on people who want to play pure mages like frost, fire etc.

Completely agree with everything you say here.

Lerozain

Solariken wrote: »

My suggestions:

It should break when LOS is lost. Obviously.

Remove the cooldown, but keep it one target at a time.

Reduce damage slightly but increase range to 22m.

Make the damage type match the staff type. No idea why ZOS keeps crapping on people who want to play pure mages like frost, fire etc.

I'd be on board with this as well.

Voice_of_Chronicles

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

itscompton wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)


Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Hard to take you seriously when your argument boils down to 800-1.5K DPS is melting people. Even at the highest quoted damage It would literally take this proc a full 4 seconds to eat 1/4 of the health bar on my glass cannon MagNB.

How's 1/4 of your health not much, when all I need to do was wait 4 seconds and click one skill...I haven't even started using my spammable or dots and you will be 2/4 dead in another 4 seconds... (yes, I know ppl will fight back, but the dmg is still too much)


Moreover you cannot compare this to Mealstrom 2h for a couple of reasons:
1. Mealstrom is only single target ( +locational AoE...so it applies to everyone nearby at a set location) so it's not always there, where you want it to be
2. 2h charge costs something between 2.6-3.1 k stamina
3. 2h charge can be dodged (no dot applied), the staff's skill cannot be dodged or blocked
4. 2h charge doesn't hit as many targets AoE wise
5. 2h dot can be purged
6. 2h charge might get you into a situation you don't want to be in, while the staff let's you keep a relatively safe distance
7. Oh, and most importantly....I forgot to mention that, this the staffs damaging effect can not be purged or cleansed by any means, it stays. --> heals in no cp are already quite bad, if you don't build for it. 1.5k DPS in case of your glasscannon NB will mean, that damage, unavoidable eating away from your healthbar, without any counterplay (besides cloak) every second.. it's the strongest unpurgeable, unavoidable damage proc in the entire game, and it's ranged and AoE....

I find many of your suggestions fitting, and would like most of the changes better than having this staff stay as it is...
1. shorter range
2. lower dmg
3. dodgeable procc
4. no AoE

quite a few options...

But thanks for everyone's opinions and posts so far anyways, thanks for participating!

sharquez

No, I have barely noticed it.

I mean the only thing I would concede is that it should be purgable like nearly everything else in this game. But the damage/cost is fine.

Voice_of_Chronicles

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

Yeah, it this really struck me as the most OP part about this... it not being purgeable is just wrong.

I still think the dmg needs to be looked at. maybe reduce the base dmg (by quite something), but let it stack to more than 20% --> 40% increase if you hit more targets, would also make this sets purpose (position) a stronger factor in it's power play

BohnT2

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

Let's do a quick comparison for everyone saying the staff doesn't do much damage.
All the screenshots here were taken with on a fully buffed build featuring the following stats:


And here's how different skills and the vate destro compare:








Those stats buff skill tooltips immensely and aren't common to what this build would see for most of the time.

As you can see the destro offers 3.8k damage every second (ignore the shock value that's due to an issue on the build editor)
The other dots shared can't compete at all with that it brings to the table.
Mystic siphon has a much lower tooltip while restoring less resources, is impossible to land for the whole duration in pvp and doesn't apply major breach.

Keep in mind that the vate TT is the same no matter if I'd run 100k magicka or 5k magicka you get exactly the same damage if you just build for penetration.

SgtNuttzmeg

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

I was already concerned on PTS and when I saw that it would go live like this, but now, after seeing for myself how utterly broken it is, I need your opinion to decide:
In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)
This is already by itself THE strongest proc set out there: Icy conjurer deals a little less damage 21k and is single target. https://eso-sets.com/set/icy-conjuror

What makes it OP:

- AoE damage on a set that as single target would be strong already
- no brainer application and easy reapplication with zero cost or skill (undodgeable, unblockable) , click and go
- 15 meter range (Zaan was only 8 meters and dominated no-cp until nerf
- cannot be LoSed

I have played all classes in PvP more stam than mag and got my fair share of exp. But this set turns my already oppressive playstyle into an unstoppable onslaught. Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Stamplar and stamsorc have no innate access to major fracture/breach (which is now one, thanks ZoS) so backbaring this was a no-brainer choice.
Pair with Malacath, lover mundus and sharpened backbar, add double dot poisons to the mix, click 1 skill and starting mowing your target down with your spammable.
If they CC and start to outrun it...well, I can just break free (split second if server lag allows) and stay in range anyways. 1vXing has become so much easier, and although I enjoyed the first couple of hours abusing this set. Using it, makes me feel bad.

Either adjust damage OR range of the tether OR the duration OR whatever it is that must be done to address this. Entire groups in BG have started abusing this and it will start to dominate all MMR ranges in no time. Put a stop to this madness please. I have started to dislike this set even more than Syvarra (which also needs nerfing, but that's a story for another day)..

Best regards,
VoC

its about same strength as zaan so its fine

would be ok to reduce the range of it to be inline with zaan
so range from 15m to 8m

maybe ad cd
and remove aoe

would be nerf enought

no dmg nerf!

You also forgot to mention that one morph of this skill procs Icey Conjurer. This set is severely overturned. I have seen multiple stamina builds run this staff as it costs nothing to use, provides a massive dot and applies major fracture/breach. Throw Malacath on a Magcro. Put on this staff, Icey Conjurer. Run a few dots and people will melt. Best part is you still have another five piece and a one piece that you can run to buff your survivability by that much more.

Ascarl

No, I have barely noticed it.

Balancing around no CP PVP is wrong for every aspect of the game.

Bashev

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

Ascarl wrote: »

Balancing around no CP PVP is wrong for every aspect of the game.

Actually CP should be removed and only cosmetic nodes should be added, like faster speed outside of combat, faster gathering and so on

jaws343

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

I was already concerned on PTS and when I saw that it would go live like this, but now, after seeing for myself how utterly broken it is, I need your opinion to decide:
In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)
This is already by itself THE strongest proc set out there: Icy conjurer deals a little less damage 21k and is single target. https://eso-sets.com/set/icy-conjuror

What makes it OP:

- AoE damage on a set that as single target would be strong already
- no brainer application and easy reapplication with zero cost or skill (undodgeable, unblockable) , click and go
- 15 meter range (Zaan was only 8 meters and dominated no-cp until nerf
- cannot be LoSed

I have played all classes in PvP more stam than mag and got my fair share of exp. But this set turns my already oppressive playstyle into an unstoppable onslaught. Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Stamplar and stamsorc have no innate access to major fracture/breach (which is now one, thanks ZoS) so backbaring this was a no-brainer choice.
Pair with Malacath, lover mundus and sharpened backbar, add double dot poisons to the mix, click 1 skill and starting mowing your target down with your spammable.
If they CC and start to outrun it...well, I can just break free (split second if server lag allows) and stay in range anyways. 1vXing has become so much easier, and although I enjoyed the first couple of hours abusing this set. Using it, makes me feel bad.

Either adjust damage OR range of the tether OR the duration OR whatever it is that must be done to address this. Entire groups in BG have started abusing this and it will start to dominate all MMR ranges in no time. Put a stop to this madness please. I have started to dislike this set even more than Syvarra (which also needs nerfing, but that's a story for another day)..

Best regards,
VoC

its about same strength as zaan so its fine

would be ok to reduce the range of it to be inline with zaan
so range from 15m to 8m

maybe ad cd
and remove aoe

would be nerf enought

no dmg nerf!

You also forgot to mention that one morph of this skill procs Icey Conjurer. This set is severely overturned. I have seen multiple stamina builds run this staff as it costs nothing to use, provides a massive dot and applies major fracture/breach. Throw Malacath on a Magcro. Put on this staff, Icey Conjurer. Run a few dots and people will melt. Best part is you still have another five piece and a one piece that you can run to buff your survivability by that much more.

You've basically laid out the build I want to try with this set. Malacath, Overwhelming Surge, Zaan, this staff, and 2 pieces of Trainee. On a mag necro with like 30K health. Using beckoning armor to keep enemies close.

SgtNuttzmeg

Yes, please! I feel like it's outperforming other sets by quite a bit!

jaws343 wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Hey folks,
this set needs to be looked at asap:
https://eso-sets.com/set/wrath-of-elements

I was already concerned on PTS and when I saw that it would go live like this, but now, after seeing for myself how utterly broken it is, I need your opinion to decide:
In no CP I feel it is completely rampant and killing the competition

23710 dmg / battlespirit / resis reduction etc. still hits my targets for 800/HP - 1.5k HP PER SECOND depending on my setup and theirs (NO CP)
This is already by itself THE strongest proc set out there: Icy conjurer deals a little less damage 21k and is single target. https://eso-sets.com/set/icy-conjuror

What makes it OP:

- AoE damage on a set that as single target would be strong already
- no brainer application and easy reapplication with zero cost or skill (undodgeable, unblockable) , click and go
- 15 meter range (Zaan was only 8 meters and dominated no-cp until nerf
- cannot be LoSed

I have played all classes in PvP more stam than mag and got my fair share of exp. But this set turns my already oppressive playstyle into an unstoppable onslaught. Enemies literally melt away, just because of this. I don't even use any other proc sets, this is enough...

Stamplar and stamsorc have no innate access to major fracture/breach (which is now one, thanks ZoS) so backbaring this was a no-brainer choice.
Pair with Malacath, lover mundus and sharpened backbar, add double dot poisons to the mix, click 1 skill and starting mowing your target down with your spammable.
If they CC and start to outrun it...well, I can just break free (split second if server lag allows) and stay in range anyways. 1vXing has become so much easier, and although I enjoyed the first couple of hours abusing this set. Using it, makes me feel bad.

Either adjust damage OR range of the tether OR the duration OR whatever it is that must be done to address this. Entire groups in BG have started abusing this and it will start to dominate all MMR ranges in no time. Put a stop to this madness please. I have started to dislike this set even more than Syvarra (which also needs nerfing, but that's a story for another day)..

Best regards,
VoC

its about same strength as zaan so its fine

would be ok to reduce the range of it to be inline with zaan
so range from 15m to 8m

maybe ad cd
and remove aoe

would be nerf enought

no dmg nerf!

You also forgot to mention that one morph of this skill procs Icey Conjurer. This set is severely overturned. I have seen multiple stamina builds run this staff as it costs nothing to use, provides a massive dot and applies major fracture/breach. Throw Malacath on a Magcro. Put on this staff, Icey Conjurer. Run a few dots and people will melt. Best part is you still have another five piece and a one piece that you can run to buff your survivability by that much more.

You've basically laid out the build I want to try with this set. Malacath, Overwhelming Surge, Zaan, this staff, and 2 pieces of Trainee. On a mag necro with like 30K health. Using beckoning armor to keep enemies close.

Yea, it's pretty disgusting. I also think that they approached this weapon set in the wrong way. Elemental Drain is a support ability. It's designed for healers/tanks. It's not a dps or damage ability. The weapon set should have been made to reflect this. Especially since the changes to frost staff were aiming to make frost staffs more present in combat.

DTStormfox

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

I think a lot of new item sets need some adjustments for PvP (especially for No-CP PvP). Until then, I dubbed PvP to be called PvPS (Player vs. Proc Sets).

Firstmep

Other ( please explain)

I guess, along with all the other broken procsets, like Frenzied Momentum, which carries more potential dmg on an arena weapon than most 5pc sets.

Urvoth

Yes, it needs some adjustments.

It's also not cleansable like how Zaans is

Raideen

No, I have barely noticed it.

Its ridiculous to suggest that a ranged class should only perform in melee range. So...no.

jaws343

Raideen wrote: »

Its ridiculous to suggest that a ranged class should only perform in melee range. So...no.

There are 3 primarily melee ranged mag classes that can utilize this set very effectively. Unless you think DK, Necro, and Templar are primarily ranged classes. Necro have tether mechanics that require melee, and DK and Templars have melee spammables.