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My Problem with the Hawk Eye Passive in the Bow Skill Line
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.
However, you have complained that this passive does not fit the theme for archery. I have also clearly pointed out how this clearly fits with the theme of archery as you defined it. Nevertheless, your objection in this last post focuses on the part of the OP is that we lose the buff when we are not participating with archery at all. This is just one great example of how those of us that have read this thread can see a very conflicting message. Thank you for your feedback.
Nah, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery. You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it. I could eat an apple every time I hear a dog bark -- just because I connected the two doesn't mean they are thematically related at all.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.
However, you have complained that this passive does not fit the theme for archery. I have also clearly pointed out how this clearly fits with the theme of archery as you defined it. Nevertheless, your objection in this last post focuses on the part of the OP is that we lose the buff when we are not participating with archery at all. This is just one great example of how those of us that have read this thread can see a very conflicting message. Thank you for your feedback.
Nah, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery.You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it. I could eat an apple every time I hear a dog bark -- just because I connected the two doesn't mean they are thematically related at all.
Since the theme of archery is shooting a bow and arrows, as described by you, then a passive based on light attacks that are shooting a bow and arrow fits the theme of archery perfectly.
Again, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery. You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it.
Call it a min-game all you want but it is merely a passive that is intended to boost pure bow builds and encourage weaving basic attacks. It works well for that purpose and fits the definition of an archery theme based on your earlier description. Your complaint is that it does not work well for builds that are not pure bow and it appears clearly intended as such.
As stated earlier, everyone is entitled to their opinion of how things are designed. Thank you for sharing yours. Have a good day.2 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭How do you complain about Hawk Eye not fitting in the "theme of archery" when ZOS is literally adding in an arena weapon that gives bonus damage to in-your-face snipes???? Not to mention the Bow ability that straight up just heals you.Edited by AinSoph on October 31, 2020 12:46PM2 -
ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.
You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.2 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How do you complain about Hawk Eye not fitting in the "theme of archery" when ZOS is literally adding in an arena weapon that gives bonus damage to in-your-face snipes???? Not to mention the Bow ability that straight up just heals you.
If you have an issue with the in-your-face snipe set you can choose to equip another set. And if you have an issue with the morph that heals, you can choose the other morph of the skill that doesn't heal. It's too bad we don't have other options for passives as well. I sure would like the option to choose another passive to replace the damage-building, timer-dependent, maintenance mini-game of Hawk Eye.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I honestly fail to see calling the light attack thing a "mini-game" when light attack weaving is engrained into the very soul of this game.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK3 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I honestly fail to see calling the light attack thing a "mini-game" when light attack weaving is engrained into the very soul of this game.
Yes, calling it a mini-game implies you have to do something specific outside of what you would normally do in order to make it work. But the way it functions you generate the stacks just by doing a normal rotation. Yeah sometimes they'll fall off if you can't attack continuously, but that's just how some bigger buffs work.3 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Okay, we'll go with "mechanic" instead of mini-game.
But, as has been said, the "mechanic", "mini game", whatever you want to call it, is just "doing a rotation".
So you are opposed to being asked to play the game semi-competently to maintain reasonable uptime on the buff?1 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »How do you complain about Hawk Eye not fitting in the "theme of archery" when ZOS is literally adding in an arena weapon that gives bonus damage to in-your-face snipes???? Not to mention the Bow ability that straight up just heals you.
If you have an issue with the in-your-face snipe set you can choose to equip another set. And if you have an issue with the morph that heals, you can choose the other morph of the skill that doesn't heal. It's too bad we don't have other options for passives as well. I sure would like the option to choose another passive to replace the damage-building, timer-dependent, maintenance mini-game of Hawk Eye.
Then I can give the same answer. If you arent competent enough to weave in light attacks or even spam it 5 times in a row, then don't take the passive.2 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »How do you complain about Hawk Eye not fitting in the "theme of archery" when ZOS is literally adding in an arena weapon that gives bonus damage to in-your-face snipes???? Not to mention the Bow ability that straight up just heals you.
If you have an issue with the in-your-face snipe set you can choose to equip another set. And if you have an issue with the morph that heals, you can choose the other morph of the skill that doesn't heal. It's too bad we don't have other options for passives as well. I sure would like the option to choose another passive to replace the damage-building, timer-dependent, maintenance mini-game of Hawk Eye.
Then I can give the same answer. If you arent competent enough to weave in light attacks or even spam it 5 times in a row, then don't take the passive.
I don't think you're recognizing the difference why you can't give the same answer. The two examples you give 1) the snipe set, and 2) the heal morph, both have other options available to the player.
That's why I said "It's too bad we don't have other options for passives as well. I sure would like the option to choose another passive to replace the damage-building, timer-dependent, maintenance mini-game of Hawk Eye."Edited by GrumpyDuckling on November 1, 2020 4:24PM1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Okay, we'll go with "mechanic" instead of mini-game.
But, as has been said, the "mechanic", "mini game", whatever you want to call it, is just "doing a rotation".
So you are opposed to being asked to play the game semi-competently to maintain reasonable uptime on the buff?
I think it's an oversimplification to say "just play the game semi-competently" because there are too many different game play variables that create a wide range of outcomes ranging from Hawk Eye being up nearly all of the time, to breaking constantly.
In my opinion, the formula for Hawk Eye is too inconsistent a passive (due to the wide range out outcomes), and has a damage-building component which I don't think represents the theme of archery.0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I think it's an oversimplification to say "just play the game semi-competently" because there are too many different game play variables that create a wide range of outcomes ranging from Hawk Eye being up nearly all of the time, to breaking constantly.
Well it really isn't. It is an extremely powerful buff that clearly isn't meant to have equal effectiveness in all situations. Yeah it might not have great uptime against trash that dies in two hits, but it is a boss killer ability. And it will have significant uptime in the hands of a skilled player against just about any boss in the gameIn my opinion, the formula for Hawk Eye is too inconsistent a passive (due to the wide range out outcomes), and has a damage-building component which I don't think represents the theme of archery.
Except there is no "theme of archery" other than killing stuff with a bow and arrow. Anything else is only in your own head. If you want to argue the lack of "realism" in such a passive you've lost me completely. Even the completely non-magical skills in the game, from every martial skill line, regularly have the character do things that are physically impossible or completely illogical. But this is a fantasy rpg, the game isn't built around realism.3 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I think it's an oversimplification to say "just play the game semi-competently" because there are too many different game play variables that create a wide range of outcomes ranging from Hawk Eye being up nearly all of the time, to breaking constantly.
Well it really isn't. It is an extremely powerful buff that clearly isn't meant to have equal effectiveness in all situations. Yeah it might not have great uptime against trash that dies in two hits, but it is a boss killer ability. And it will have significant uptime in the hands of a skilled player against just about any boss in the gameIn my opinion, the formula for Hawk Eye is too inconsistent a passive (due to the wide range out outcomes), and has a damage-building component which I don't think represents the theme of archery.
Except there is no "theme of archery" other than killing stuff with a bow and arrow. Anything else is only in your own head. If you want to argue the lack of "realism" in such a passive you've lost me completely. Even the completely non-magical skills in the game, from every martial skill line, regularly have the character do things that are physically impossible or completely illogical. But this is a fantasy rpg, the game isn't built around realism.
I'm not sure where you are getting the "realism" argument from. I've stated multiple times already that I think the damage-building component of Hawk Eye plays more like a berserker/adrenaline rush style and would better fit a melee theme.0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I've stated multiple times already that I think the damage-building component of Hawk Eye plays more like a berserker/adrenaline rush style and would better fit a melee theme.
I disagree.
I think the damage building component fits with any damage playstyle in the game given the more general emphasis the game has on rewarding high actions per minute.
Guess we're at an impasse.1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I've stated multiple times already that I think the damage-building component of Hawk Eye plays more like a berserker/adrenaline rush style and would better fit a melee theme.
I disagree.
I think the damage building component fits with any damage playstyle in the game given the more general emphasis the game has on rewarding high actions per minute.
Guess we're at an impasse.
I don't see it the same way. No worries.0 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭They could change it to having any bow light attack or bow direct damage skill land with a 1 second cool down. Weaving bow light attacks were clunkier than ever on the PTS, if I see my character freezing, then spasming and unloading 3 snipes in a row again on a target dummy in an empty house I'll probably need to take a break.Edited by MudcrabAttack on November 2, 2020 4:06PM1