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My Problem with the Hawk Eye Passive in the Bow Skill Line
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nesakinter wrote: »If you think Hawk Eye is so bad, then suggest a changed passive which satisfies the following conditions- Buffs mainly front-bar bow.
- Does not buff back-bar bow in PvE context.
- Hard to keep up to justify the huge boost.
- Takes time to build up, therefore does not buff gank builds.
- Can be used freely in both PvE and PvP, when directly going for it.
With a bow equipped, bow attacks gain [x]% penetration.- Fits archery theme (well-placed arrow penetrates armor).
- Only applies when bow is "equipped" (buff applies for main bar bow, wouldn't work if another weapon is back-bar, but would work for bow/bow).
- Reconfigure numbers on bow skills to compensate for removal of Hawk Eye to insure bow is viable.
- If ganking is an issue, look into the numbers on snipe.
Edited by GrumpyDuckling on October 30, 2020 2:35PM1 -
nesakinter✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »nesakinter wrote: »If you think Hawk Eye is so bad, then suggest a changed passive which satisfies the following conditions- Buffs mainly front-bar bow.
- Does not buff back-bar bow in PvE context.
- Hard to keep up to justify the huge boost.
- Takes time to build up, therefore does not buff gank builds.
- Can be used freely in both PvE and PvP, when directly going for it.
With a bow equipped, bow attacks gain [x]% penetration.- Fits archery theme (well-placed arrow penetrates armor).
- Only applies when bow is "equipped" (buff applies for main bar bow, wouldn't work for back-bar, but would work for bow/bow).
- Reconfigure numbers on bow skills to compensate for removal of Hawk Eye to insure bow is viable.
- If ganking is an issue, look into the numbers on snipe.
Penetration on a weapon passive is useless for PvE (Bosses in any decent group will be 100% shredded, especially now with just Minor and Major breach providing 9k penetration). Also the passive is only supposed to affect bow abilities, extra penetration will Bow backbar more effective, especially on proc builds in PvP.
You can't change damage numbers on any skill, as they are all in tune with the spreadsheet that ZoS uses.
Also you can't nerf Snipe without making it weaker than other spammables in PvE, it follows the same spreadsheet DPS profile.Edited by nesakinter on October 30, 2020 3:14PM1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nesakinter wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »nesakinter wrote: »If you think Hawk Eye is so bad, then suggest a changed passive which satisfies the following conditions- Buffs mainly front-bar bow.
- Does not buff back-bar bow in PvE context.
- Hard to keep up to justify the huge boost.
- Takes time to build up, therefore does not buff gank builds.
- Can be used freely in both PvE and PvP, when directly going for it.
With a bow equipped, bow attacks gain [x]% penetration.- Fits archery theme (well-placed arrow penetrates armor).
- Only applies when bow is "equipped" (buff applies for main bar bow, wouldn't work for back-bar, but would work for bow/bow).
- Reconfigure numbers on bow skills to compensate for removal of Hawk Eye to insure bow is viable.
- If ganking is an issue, look into the numbers on snipe.
You can't change damage numbers on any skill, as they are all in tune with the spreadsheet that ZoS uses.
This is just silly. If ZOS were to change a passive like Hawk Eye, they could most certainly change damage numbers on skills to get them where they want to be. Why are you pretending to be so rigid as if they can't?1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hawkeye kind of does fit the archery theme though. If you've ever fired a bow after a few shots you get an idea of where each shot will land and thus your accuracy will get better. Now the idea of instantly removing this muscle memory after a short time is silly but the logic and theme of this passive is fine.
More you shoot, the better your accuracy, and the more likely you'll hit a vital area which increases the damage you do.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK6 -
The_Camper✭✭✭✭✭looks like someone wants 25% extra damage on bow bar without having to work for it. You keep saying "How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery" without even giving any factual evidence why it does not.
It certainly fits into the Archery theme and this passive is already not a problem in PVE in any way. Easy 25% damage increase if you can keep pressing a button once in a while.
In PVP this already benefits players who know how to be in a fight for longer than a couple of seconds and know how to build up for a damage combo. What this currently DOES NOT benefit is only gankers who would rather advocate on this passive being changed to a easy to use one so they can buff up beforehand and hit players from stealth with a 25% damage increase with no downside or having to work for it. You my friend, belongs to the latter group of players as it seems.4 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hawkeye kind of does fit the archery theme though. If you've ever fired a bow after a few shots you get an idea of where each shot will land and thus your accuracy will get better. Now the idea of instantly removing this muscle memory after a short time is silly but the logic and theme of this passive is fine.
More you shoot, the better your accuracy, and the more likely you'll hit a vital area which increases the damage you do.
The logic and theme of the passive currently includes that removal after a short time, so it doesn't fit the logic and theme of archery.1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Camper wrote: »looks like someone wants 25% extra damage on bow bar without having to work for it. You keep saying "How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery" without even giving any factual evidence why it does not.
It certainly fits into the Archery theme and this passive is already not a problem in PVE in any way. Easy 25% damage increase if you can keep pressing a button once in a while.
In PVP this already benefits players who know how to be in a fight for longer than a couple of seconds and know how to build up for a damage combo. What this currently DOES NOT benefit is only gankers who would rather advocate on this passive being changed to a easy to use one so they can buff up beforehand and hit players from stealth with a 25% damage increase with no downside or having to work for it. You my friend, belongs to the latter group of players as it seems.
Why are you creating a false narrative that I want "25% extra damage on bow bar without having to work for it?"
And as for the theme -- you want "factual evidence" that a damage-building time-dependent mini-game doesn't fit the theme or archery? Lol.Edited by GrumpyDuckling on October 30, 2020 3:49PM1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thank you for bringing this out, it does need fixed.
Zenimax, please look into this and fix it.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.4 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.2 -
Scion_of_Yggdrasil✭✭✭✭✭I have to agree that this passive is less than desirable. Does it function? Yes. But really only if you bow/bow.
Since performance is a hot topic: its passives like these that should be revisited/tested, as well as the... uh..... more distance = more damage passive. Those are continuous, small calculations that probably contribute to the stress on servers.
Nor are these passives even logical. The more you use your bow the more tired you would get, and similarly, the further away you are from your target, your accuracy more than likely decreases, which would lower your damage done since you would be less likely to hit vital spots.
These passives work, technically, but 2 different passives would be a welcomed change.3 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭Makes perfect sense to me. Do a repetitive action and after a bit, it’s almost meditative as the task becomes easier and you don’t really think about doing it, you just do it. But if you get distracted, or otherwise pause, that effortless flow is gone too.6 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Makes perfect sense to me. Do a repetitive action and after a bit, it’s almost meditative as the task becomes easier and you don’t really think about doing it, you just do it. But if you get distracted, or otherwise pause, that effortless flow is gone too.
Among other flaws in this logic, the task "becom[ing] easier" is different than becoming 25% stronger.1 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Makes perfect sense to me. Do a repetitive action and after a bit, it’s almost meditative as the task becomes easier and you don’t really think about doing it, you just do it. But if you get distracted, or otherwise pause, that effortless flow is gone too.
Among other flaws in this logic, the task "becom[ing] easier" is different than becoming 25% stronger.
I was generally speaking.
But if you want specifics, when you’re in that zone, your aiming could improve because you aren’t overthinking. When you do a repetitive action and get in that zone, your movements become more efficient not only from a coordination standpoint, but also from improved neuromuscular efficiency. That means you’re nailing your technique as well as increasing your overall power output.
And before anyone mentions performance degradation from muscle fatigue: this game doesn’t take into account muscle fatigue from light attacks (and heck, if they were to be logical about it, heavy attacks would tire you out, not give you a boost). So that’s not a really sound reason to call it illogical.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.4 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Makes perfect sense to me. Do a repetitive action and after a bit, it’s almost meditative as the task becomes easier and you don’t really think about doing it, you just do it. But if you get distracted, or otherwise pause, that effortless flow is gone too.
Among other flaws in this logic, the task "becom[ing] easier" is different than becoming 25% stronger.
That means you’re nailing your technique as well as increasing your overall power output.
And that overall power output completely vanishes if you wait 6 seconds to fire the arrow instead of 5?1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.0 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Get distracted, lose that meditative state, as I said.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Makes perfect sense to me. Do a repetitive action and after a bit, it’s almost meditative as the task becomes easier and you don’t really think about doing it, you just do it. But if you get distracted, or otherwise pause, that effortless flow is gone too.
Among other flaws in this logic, the task "becom[ing] easier" is different than becoming 25% stronger.
That means you’re nailing your technique as well as increasing your overall power output.
And that overall power output completely vanishes if you wait 6 seconds to fire the arrow instead of 5?
Why 5 seconds? Why not 6, or 7, or 3, or.... It’s still a video game. They’re going to add gamey stuff like this. This isn’t the only skill with this sort of mechanic.
But honestly, I think this is a waste of time because it seems your mind is made up and it doesn’t appear you’re making any good faith effort to see other people’s points.4 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Get distracted, lose that meditative state, as I said.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Makes perfect sense to me. Do a repetitive action and after a bit, it’s almost meditative as the task becomes easier and you don’t really think about doing it, you just do it. But if you get distracted, or otherwise pause, that effortless flow is gone too.
Among other flaws in this logic, the task "becom[ing] easier" is different than becoming 25% stronger.
That means you’re nailing your technique as well as increasing your overall power output.
And that overall power output completely vanishes if you wait 6 seconds to fire the arrow instead of 5?
Why 5 seconds? Why not 6, or 7, or 3, or.... It’s still a video game. They’re going to add gamey stuff like this. This isn’t the only skill with this sort of mechanic.
But honestly, I think this is a waste of time because it seems your mind is made up and it doesn’t appear you’re making any good faith effort to see other people’s points.
You try to poke holes in my arguments, but when I point out flaws in your arguments you accuse me of not making good faith efforts? Seems a bit hypocritical.0 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Get distracted, lose that meditative state, as I said.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Makes perfect sense to me. Do a repetitive action and after a bit, it’s almost meditative as the task becomes easier and you don’t really think about doing it, you just do it. But if you get distracted, or otherwise pause, that effortless flow is gone too.
Among other flaws in this logic, the task "becom[ing] easier" is different than becoming 25% stronger.
That means you’re nailing your technique as well as increasing your overall power output.
And that overall power output completely vanishes if you wait 6 seconds to fire the arrow instead of 5?
Why 5 seconds? Why not 6, or 7, or 3, or.... It’s still a video game. They’re going to add gamey stuff like this. This isn’t the only skill with this sort of mechanic.
But honestly, I think this is a waste of time because it seems your mind is made up and it doesn’t appear you’re making any good faith effort to see other people’s points.
You try to poke holes in my arguments, but when I point out flaws in your arguments you accuse me of not making good faith efforts? Seems a bit hypocritical.
I gave my reason why I think it makes sense. Then I further explained my reason to make it more specifically apply to archery. And added that there’s going to be gamey mechanics in, well, a video game. That’s not so much trying to poke holes in your argument as, well, giving a counter opinion? It doesn’t have to be so combative.
I say it doesn’t seem like you’re arguing in good faith because some of your replies seem willfully obtuse. Other replies to detailed, well thought out posts from others is the exact same mini-game/archery bit. Doesn’t strike me as you giving their arguments any sort of consideration.2 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Get distracted, lose that meditative state, as I said.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Makes perfect sense to me. Do a repetitive action and after a bit, it’s almost meditative as the task becomes easier and you don’t really think about doing it, you just do it. But if you get distracted, or otherwise pause, that effortless flow is gone too.
Among other flaws in this logic, the task "becom[ing] easier" is different than becoming 25% stronger.
That means you’re nailing your technique as well as increasing your overall power output.
And that overall power output completely vanishes if you wait 6 seconds to fire the arrow instead of 5?
Why 5 seconds? Why not 6, or 7, or 3, or.... It’s still a video game. They’re going to add gamey stuff like this. This isn’t the only skill with this sort of mechanic.
But honestly, I think this is a waste of time because it seems your mind is made up and it doesn’t appear you’re making any good faith effort to see other people’s points.
You try to poke holes in my arguments, but when I point out flaws in your arguments you accuse me of not making good faith efforts? Seems a bit hypocritical.
I gave my reason why I think it makes sense. Then I further explained my reason to make it more specifically apply to archery. And added that there’s going to be gamey mechanics in, well, a video game. That’s not so much trying to poke holes in your argument as, well, giving a counter opinion? It doesn’t have to be so combative.
I say it doesn’t seem like you’re arguing in good faith because some of your replies seem willfully obtuse. Other replies to detailed, well thought out posts from others is the exact same mini-game/archery bit. Doesn’t strike me as you giving their arguments any sort of consideration.
That's what Hawk Eye is, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game. The attempted justifications I have read so far just aren't strong points. I can consider them over and over, but it doesn't change the oddity of a bow growing to 25% strength if you play the damage-building time-dependent mini-game. Which "thought out posts" do you want to discuss?1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »I have to agree that this passive is less than desirable. Does it function? Yes. But really only if you bow/bow.
it might function in pve,
but it does NOT function properly in pvp and we explained why several times.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.
Oh, I read it very carefully, and the subsequent posts. As I noted, I am not the only one who has come to this conclusion based on the collection of posts in this thread.
I will say you do bring up a good point about the weapon swap. As we have already pointed out, that seems to be deliberate that we lose the buff if we do not use the bow for a duration of time. Others have pointed out it seems very clear the passive is intended to buff actual bow builds without giving more power to ganking.
However, you have complained that this passive does not fit the theme for archery. I have also clearly pointed out how this clearly fits with the theme of archery as you defined it. Nevertheless, your objection in this last post focuses on the part of the OP is that we lose the buff when we are not participating with archery at all. This is just one great example of how those of us that have read this thread can see a very conflicting message. Thank you for your feedback.4 -
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
It fits the trope of an active combat fantasy archer - think Legolas - to a tee. You're entering into a flow state. We are playing the vestige, a hero of Tamriel a legend in the making not some rando longbowman. If we go by realism 2-handed and Dual Wield needs a complete rework.Edited by jkerlandsenrwb17_ESO on October 31, 2020 12:06AM3 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.
However, you have complained that this passive does not fit the theme for archery. I have also clearly pointed out how this clearly fits with the theme of archery as you defined it. Nevertheless, your objection in this last post focuses on the part of the OP is that we lose the buff when we are not participating with archery at all. This is just one great example of how those of us that have read this thread can see a very conflicting message. Thank you for your feedback.
Nah, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery. You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it. I could eat an apple every time I hear a dog bark -- just because I connected the two doesn't mean they are thematically related at all.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.
However, you have complained that this passive does not fit the theme for archery. I have also clearly pointed out how this clearly fits with the theme of archery as you defined it. Nevertheless, your objection in this last post focuses on the part of the OP is that we lose the buff when we are not participating with archery at all. This is just one great example of how those of us that have read this thread can see a very conflicting message. Thank you for your feedback.
Nah, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery. You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it. I could eat an apple every time I hear a dog bark -- just because I connected the two doesn't mean they are thematically related at all.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.
However, you have complained that this passive does not fit the theme for archery. I have also clearly pointed out how this clearly fits with the theme of archery as you defined it. Nevertheless, your objection in this last post focuses on the part of the OP is that we lose the buff when we are not participating with archery at all. This is just one great example of how those of us that have read this thread can see a very conflicting message. Thank you for your feedback.
Nah, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery.You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it. I could eat an apple every time I hear a dog bark -- just because I connected the two doesn't mean they are thematically related at all.
Since the theme of archery is shooting a bow and arrows, as described by you, then a passive based on light attacks that are shooting a bow and arrow fits the theme of archery perfectly.
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.
However, you have complained that this passive does not fit the theme for archery. I have also clearly pointed out how this clearly fits with the theme of archery as you defined it. Nevertheless, your objection in this last post focuses on the part of the OP is that we lose the buff when we are not participating with archery at all. This is just one great example of how those of us that have read this thread can see a very conflicting message. Thank you for your feedback.
Nah, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery. You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it. I could eat an apple every time I hear a dog bark -- just because I connected the two doesn't mean they are thematically related at all.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
That's nice. The Hawk Eye passive still doesn't fit the archery theme.
No, it doesn't fit YOUR personal theme of Archery.
I think this sums it up. It very much meets the criteria OP stated as being the archery theme. It fits it perfectly.
Nope. How does a damage-building time-dependent mini-game fit into anyone's theme of archery? It has nothing to do with archery.
The shooting of arrows from a bow to build and maintain the stacks exemplifies the archery theme perfectly.
"Maintain the stacks" has nothing to do with archery. Just because you slap the requirement of needing to fire arrows every 5 seconds to play this mini-game doesn't mean it has anything to do with an archery theme in the first place. Again, a damage-building time-dependent mini-game is just out of place when it comes to archery.
It most certainly does have something to do with archery because the action required to maintain the stacks is very much an archery move.
This thread seems more and more just complaining about weaving basic attacks as @YandereGirlfriend suggested earlier. With just a little bit of practice, most players will be able to weave basic attacks into their skill easily. I know this from experience as I had to practice at this myself and I used to lead a group of mostly casual players to the point we were doing leaderboard runs in the early trials back in 2014. Many of them put in that little effort to get comfortable with weaving.
No, this thread does not have anything to do with weaving. I was pretty clear in my first post when I wrote, "...especially when bar-swapping to another weapon, or during combat where mechanics force pauses, or in PVP where enemies LOS and consistently break the stacks with ease."
Please read more carefully so you will avoid making inaccurate assumptions. Thanks.
However, you have complained that this passive does not fit the theme for archery. I have also clearly pointed out how this clearly fits with the theme of archery as you defined it. Nevertheless, your objection in this last post focuses on the part of the OP is that we lose the buff when we are not participating with archery at all. This is just one great example of how those of us that have read this thread can see a very conflicting message. Thank you for your feedback.
Nah, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery.You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it. I could eat an apple every time I hear a dog bark -- just because I connected the two doesn't mean they are thematically related at all.
Since the theme of archery is shooting a bow and arrows, as described by you, then a passive based on light attacks that are shooting a bow and arrow fits the theme of archery perfectly.
Again, just because the mini-game was assigned as a passive for the bow and set to activate under conditions of using a bow doesn't mean it fits the theme of archery. You can slap conditions on any mechanic, but it doesn't mean that mechanic is in any way related to the conditions assigned to it.0