Will we ever get back to "play the way you want"? PvE version

Kurat · October 2020

Wow, everyone saying "you can play how you want right now " or " meta is only for score pushing " or " you can clear any content with any class ". All this is true but in reality its bs. I've been in 10s of pve guilds, some casual some more serious, but ALL of them demand not only certain parse numbers but also build. "You have to be mag" mainly and ranged. So you cant in reality play as you want, even if you are able to clear said content with melee stam for example. Even noob casual guilds are demanding certain builds because they read some guide or saw some badass group in YouTube lmao.
Upcoming patch most stam classes can outparse mag but all the content favores ranged mag.

Contaminate · November 2020

Kurat wrote: »

Wow, everyone saying "you can play how you want right now " or " meta is only for score pushing " or " you can clear any content with any class ". All this is true but in reality its bs. I've been in 10s of pve guilds, some casual some more serious, but ALL of them demand not only certain parse numbers but also build. "You have to be mag" mainly and ranged. So you cant in reality play as you want, even if you are able to clear said content with melee stam for example. Even noob casual guilds are demanding certain builds because they read some guide or saw some badass group in YouTube lmao.
Upcoming patch most stam classes can outparse mag but all the content favores ranged mag.

Just make your own groups. No one with skill gives a damn as long as you’re not weighing down the group.

Joy_Division · November 2020

The thing about the whole "you can play X and do fine, it's just not necessary optimal" is it's kind of a cop out and it's ignoring a sector of the community.

There are certain personalities who just aren;t interested in "min-maxing" and aren;t bothered by playing a spec that not optimized. And that's fine. But since when do is it fine that ESO's goals stop at just a portion of the player community?

It isn't. And even the devs have suggested as much. I remember watching one episode of ESO Live where this very issue game up as far top tier specs and one of the combat devs gave the standard response quoted about since all classes were viable, most players won't know or be annoyed if their spec wasn't at the top and immediately the other combat dev remarked "I'd know!" Indeed.

I play games because I enjoy the competitive aspect. I'm competitive; I don;t like to lose. Or wipe. Constantly while in a progression run. So if I run out there with a spec that I know is inferior and lose a close fight or get the boss down to 2% health before wiping, that feeling is, a least for me, unpleasant.

And avoidable by not running out the "viable, but not necessary optimal" spec.

It's one thing if you're just messing around by yourself questing or solo PvP. But what if you're in a group? Now your choice is affecting other people's experience in the game. Sure, I could say, "Screw you, I'm playing what I want," but that not exactly social nd immediately puts everyone's eyeballs on you. And even if you're a strong player, if your PvP group loses a close fight or PvE raid wipes when the boss is a 2% health, your choice was potentially decisive in a negative way.

JTD · November 2020

It is easy. Play how an what you like if you're alone. There is no person telling you what to do or expecting something from you if you're not in a group.

The moment you group up for a trial or dungeon for example (veteran) the 'community' expects stuff from you. Viable doesn't mean 'good'. In my mind the words viable and a decent player means a struggle completing content. Some combinations in a trial just work significantly better than others.

Just think of water,

It flows the easiest way toward the sea. When water hits a rock it flows around it. It is easier for water to move around the rock than it is to go through it.

Kurat · November 2020

JTD wrote: »

It is easy. Play how an what you like if you're alone. There is no person telling you what to do or expecting something from you if you're not in a group.

The moment you group up for a trial or dungeon for example (veteran) the 'community' expects stuff from you. Viable doesn't mean 'good'. In my mind the words viable and a decent player means a struggle completing content. Some combinations in a trial just work significantly better than others.

Just think of water,

It flows the easiest way toward the sea. When water hits a rock it flows around it. It is easier for water to move around the rock than it is to go through it.

This is elitist attitude. So why is stam and melee even in the game, just for RP? For trials be magblade or f off. I'm more competent with stam than alot of ppl with mag meta.

MaleAmazon · November 2020

The original question assumes that the game is entirely about endgame 12-player vet trials DPS to achieve the fastest clear time, which is an extremely myopic view of the game.(Yes I am aware that stats mostly dont matter that much outside of that, but that is a flaw of the game).

Also, the devs have been working pretty hard to even out the field. People have been complaining about power discrepancy since day 1.

The solution to the incessant complaining is to either:

1. Make all stats exactly equal, ie ban all skills, let people queue as generic DD/tank/healer and replace the bars with "generic attack", "generic attack 2", "generic heal" etc. Then we shall truly see who is the greatest.

or

2. Accept the fact that you will not be let in an elitist (I don´t necessarily mean that in a solely negative way) club unless you pass through that needle´s eye.

LashanW · November 2020

Kurat wrote: »

Wow, everyone saying "you can play how you want right now " or " meta is only for score pushing " or " you can clear any content with any class ". All this is true but in reality its bs. I've been in 10s of pve guilds, some casual some more serious, but ALL of them demand not only certain parse numbers but also build. "You have to be mag" mainly and ranged. So you cant in reality play as you want, even if you are able to clear said content with melee stam for example. Even noob casual guilds are demanding certain builds because they read some guide or saw some badass group in YouTube lmao.
Upcoming patch most stam classes can outparse mag but all the content favores ranged mag.

Kurat wrote: »

So why is stam and melee even in the game, just for RP? For trials be magblade or f off. I'm more competent with stam than alot of ppl with mag meta.

Just keep searching for more friendly trial guilds. They are out there. In the 2 trial guilds I'm in, you are not restricted by play style and is allowed to join open raids with any class (stam/mag) so long as you play it well. Ofc there are still limitations for progression oriented groups that are aiming for tough trials like vAS+2 or vCR+3 or trifecta achievement hunting. Just keep looking for better guilds. There are also a lot of discord based raid guilds (because of in-game guild limitation of 5) that are very friendly and not the "be magblade or f off" type. Just keep looking.

And most raid guilds request parse screenshots because there's no point in bringing in 30k dps DDs (on trial dummy) on hard vet trials, unless they are doing carry runs. Because when the dps is low, it's the support roles that suffer.

Design of some trials and positional desync issues does make stam melee DDs alienated in some content but that's not exactly players' fault.

Aznarb · November 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

Outside of absolute min/max and score pushers, the classes are fairly balanced all things considered.

Now if you are talking about score pushing, there will always be a meta that players gravitate toward. If it's all stamina now, I'm sure we will get back to a point where it will be all magicka eventually. All it takes is a mag set that is ahead of the curve or a few tweaks to magicka skills or abilities. I don't think it's as huge a difference between specs in ESO as you might see in many other games.

^This.

So much people don't get this it trigger me every time.
Their is ton of viable build, don't need to be meta to be viable.

Everest_Lionheart · November 2020

LashanW wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Wow, everyone saying "you can play how you want right now " or " meta is only for score pushing " or " you can clear any content with any class ". All this is true but in reality its bs. I've been in 10s of pve guilds, some casual some more serious, but ALL of them demand not only certain parse numbers but also build. "You have to be mag" mainly and ranged. So you cant in reality play as you want, even if you are able to clear said content with melee stam for example. Even noob casual guilds are demanding certain builds because they read some guide or saw some badass group in YouTube lmao.
Upcoming patch most stam classes can outparse mag but all the content favores ranged mag.

Kurat wrote: »

So why is stam and melee even in the game, just for RP? For trials be magblade or f off. I'm more competent with stam than alot of ppl with mag meta.

Just keep searching for more friendly trial guilds. They are out there. In the 2 trial guilds I'm in, you are not restricted by play style and is allowed to join open raids with any class (stam/mag) so long as you play it well. Ofc there are still limitations for progression oriented groups that are aiming for tough trials like vAS+2 or vCR+3 or trifecta achievement hunting. Just keep looking for better guilds. There are also a lot of discord based raid guilds (because of in-game guild limitation of 5) that are very friendly and not the "be magblade or f off" type. Just keep looking.

And most raid guilds request parse screenshots because there's no point in bringing in 30k dps DDs (on trial dummy) on hard vet trials, unless they are doing carry runs. Because when the dps is low, it's the support roles that suffer.

Design of some trials and positional desync issues does make stam melee DDs alienated in some content but that's not exactly players' fault.

My goal is to push all my DPS to 65K and then bring whatever is needed to complete the group. Depending which I am running with and on which night sometimes unable options, other time so don’t. Like tonight I have core vSS where I am strictly MagDK for the group. That’s my role on Sunday night.

Other vet trials I am often MagDK out of necessity but if we’ve got a trial where it’s better to play in ranged I prefer to bring my magplar and use ele weapon. The craglorn vet trials I will bring my Stamden or Stamblade sometimes. There isn’t anything particularly hard or overly mechanicy about them. Playing in melee has its challenges compared to range but awareness of situation and good group communication goes a long way.

JTD · November 2020

Kurat wrote: »

This is elitist attitude. So why is stam and melee even in the game, just for RP? For trials be magblade or f off. I'm more competent with stam than alot of ppl with mag meta.

I don't care that you think that is elitist. I don't see the point of making it intentionally hard on yourself and the other 11 in the trial with the reason being 'I'll wear what I feel like'.

And you and me both know that your magblade example a great 'on paper' reality. If you're competent on your stam character play that (I've got 3 in my progression group) they do great but still wear meta sets. And so does the tank to help the group.

The whole play how you want is fine but its a facade. Like a western cardboard cutout town... behind all those literal set-pieces are a couple of numerical superior sets.

Jeremy · November 2020

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Since we're back on the Stamina is king train ... AGAIN... are the devs ever going to get it right, where all magicka and all stamina builds are mostly equal?
I'm referring to things like... Magplar DPS in vet trials. I haven't seen one in ages. Magden DPS in vet trials, I'm the only one in my 2 PvE guilds. Templar and Sorc tanks (there are some but it's not common), NB and DK healers (more than there used to be but still not common), DK DPS, and the list goes on.

Yes, it is possible to play any build on any class, but on some, DPS is limited (if you can do 80k on a magicka warden, great. Most people can't even do a measly 35k) Templar tanking is possible, but it has a lot of drawbacks. DK and NB healing is possible, even in vet trials, but only very dedicated healers use these classes. I get tired of seeing the same group compositions in every trial.

I don't think the developers can fix this problem. It's been this way on every MMORPG I have ever played.

Those "endgame" guilds are always going to gravitate toward the path of least resistance. So unless the developers manage to balance the game perfectly (which is impossible unless they just clone every class) they are always going to prefer x over y and conform.

It's one reason I think they should add trials to the group finder. That way players don't have to deal with this sort of thing.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

No. Deal with it and make a stamina DPS.

Narvuntien wrote: »

Very very very few people play Vet Trials or even vet DLC dungeons and basically everything else can be done with any kind of sub-optimal build.

Things like fake tanking and fake healing have more to do with how you play not what you choose to play... if that makes sense.
How to tank normal anything: Taunt, stand still, don't die.
How to Heal in normal anything: Make sure people don't die (buffs would be super helpful though).

I have played for 6 years, I have only attempted vet trials a couple of times, otherwise I really enjoy playing Normal trials.

The reason so few people run those things is BECAUSE non-meta builds make things painful due to the constant nerfing.

omnidoh · November 2020

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

Option 3 is basically the truth.
Appropriate how it also aligns with reality.

Anything less, and well...diversity would have little to no meaning.

Kiralyn2000 · November 2020

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

Kurat wrote: »

This is elitist attitude. So why is stam and melee even in the game, just for RP? For trials be magblade or f off.

It's an MMO - the meta changes over time. Magblade may be the current flavor, but it wasn't always.

Athan1 · November 2020

In order to make all classes perform the same in all roles, then all class uniqueness has to be sacrificed as they all need access to the same tools.

Players complain when classes have access to different tools.

Players also complain when classes are the same.

Make up your minds.

Sylvermynx · November 2020

Athan1 wrote: »

In order to make all classes perform the same in all roles, then all class uniqueness has to be sacrificed as they all need access to the same tools.

Players complain when classes have access to different tools.

Players also complain when classes are the same.

Make up your minds.

I gave you an insightful. Then I re-thought. And gave you an awesome.

Spot on.

AyaDark · November 2020

Kurat wrote: »

Wow, everyone saying "you can play how you want right now " or " meta is only for score pushing " or " you can clear any content with any class ". All this is true but in reality its bs. I've been in 10s of pve guilds, some casual some more serious, but ALL of them demand not only certain parse numbers but also build. "You have to be mag" mainly and ranged. So you cant in reality play as you want, even if you are able to clear said content with melee stam for example. Even noob casual guilds are demanding certain builds because they read some guide or saw some badass group in YouTube lmao.
Upcoming patch most stam classes can outparse mag but all the content favores ranged mag.

The same problem.

People just think that if they put on Alcasts meta, they will start play good.

They just do not understand, that to play it they have play better and first close trial 50 times, before put sets like this on.

They put sets for score run and - they can not pass.

They can easely pass in not meta gear, but they do not understand it.

They even do not understand that it is 2020 year and this meta is already too old even to be a meta. It is not already a meta - it is just like "top score players was accostomed to play like this".

Mother sorrow from 2016 year in all builds - seriosly ?

- It is already 2020, it was tons of updates. Do you know it ?
- Mother sorrow !!!

They play bad - and they say something:
I play meta and you not ! We will not take you, because on dummy that was made for there build they can parse good dps. Even if in raid they can not do it and dps less - they are more powerfull on meta dummy, so they think they are better.

And if they can not pass some thing - the only thing in there head is:
We have not enough dps on dummy !
They do not even thing - may be, just may be they thing or do some thing wrong ?
We pass vSS with a lot of 180+ in group. Some 810+ wipes on it.

Need more damage ! The earth is flat ! If we damage enough we do hole under the boss he fall in it and 3 fish 🐟 earth stands will eat him !

I thing they use some kind of logick like this.

Daemons_Bane · November 2020

How about some justice for crafters instead.? We were promised, back in the days of launch, that we could level up our characters AS crafters.. we never could, as in ever.. we still had/have to do quests and farm skyshards to get levels and skillpoints

AyaDark · November 2020

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

How about some justice for crafters instead.? We were promised, back in the days of launch, that we could level up our characters AS crafters.. we never could, as in ever.. we still had/have to do quests and farm skyshards to get levels and skillpoints

You can get a lot of exp on craft, writs.
Skill points can be get by skyshards.
I really do not like quests. I have 20k- achivment points because of it. And it is really hard content for me - because in any game i play - 30 minutes of quests and i can not do anything with it - i just sleeping.

So i really understand your pain. But skyshards are not that bad - i like see the world when i gather it

LashanW · November 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

They even do not understand that it is 2020 year and this meta is already too old even to be a meta. It is not already a meta - it is just like "top score players was accostomed to play like this".

Mother sorrow from 2016 year in all builds - seriosly ?

- It is already 2020, it was tons of updates. Do you know it ?
- Mother sorrow !!!

Who are "they" you keep talking about? And why do you try to play with "them"? I'm sure you can find people who think like you and are skilled like you, so play with those people. There are always people who blindly follow meta, just ignore them if you don't like them.

Also, mother's sorrow is still a very strong set. Not only it increases your dmg output (assuming you run a decent dps rotation and not a bunch of proc sets) but it also affects your self heals (by a lot if you also use shadow mundus).

AyaDark · November 2020

LashanW wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

They even do not understand that it is 2020 year and this meta is already too old even to be a meta. It is not already a meta - it is just like "top score players was accostomed to play like this".

Mother sorrow from 2016 year in all builds - seriosly ?

- It is already 2020, it was tons of updates. Do you know it ?
- Mother sorrow !!!

Who are "they" you keep talking about? And why do you try to play with "them"? I'm sure you can find people who think like you and are skilled like you, so play with those people. There are always people who blindly follow meta, just ignore them if you don't like them.

Also, mother's sorrow is still a very strong set. Not only it increases your dmg output (assuming you run a decent dps rotation and not a bunch of proc sets) but it also affects your self heals (by a lot if you also use shadow mundus).

A lot of our russian players unfortunatly.
I think the same problems for all players with not English first language.

And i always play with thinking groups and players, but not to many of them.

Always have the same problems - people try to copy thingth that they do not understand and use it in wrong way.

colossalvoids · November 2020

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

AyaDark wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

They even do not understand that it is 2020 year and this meta is already too old even to be a meta. It is not already a meta - it is just like "top score players was accostomed to play like this".

Mother sorrow from 2016 year in all builds - seriosly ?

- It is already 2020, it was tons of updates. Do you know it ?
- Mother sorrow !!!

Who are "they" you keep talking about? And why do you try to play with "them"? I'm sure you can find people who think like you and are skilled like you, so play with those people. There are always people who blindly follow meta, just ignore them if you don't like them.

Also, mother's sorrow is still a very strong set. Not only it increases your dmg output (assuming you run a decent dps rotation and not a bunch of proc sets) but it also affects your self heals (by a lot if you also use shadow mundus).

A lot of our russian players unfortunatly.
I think the same problems for all players with not English first language.

And i always play with thinking groups and players, but not to many of them.

Always have the same problems - people try to copy thingth that they do not understand and use it in wrong way.

One of the reasons why all russian speaking players i know never play with full russian groups, too much of "I've heard it's that way" while there are multitude of ways available and non constructive empty talking eating too much time, also not being able to find a compromise and talk things through.

LashanW · November 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

A lot of our russian players unfortunatly.
I think the same problems for all players with not English first language.

And i always play with thinking groups and players, but not to many of them.

That is very sad to hear. I've been doing vet trials for 1-2 years now and I have never met people who force dps players to wear specific sets, just a basic dps parse requirement (which vary based on content) which is very easy to achieve with many different builds. Unfortunately not much freedom for tanks and healers in trials. DPS players have a lot more freedom of choice than support roles when it comes to gear sets.

People that want to do group content by playing however they want, usually get together with like-minded people and form their own guilds (either in-game guilds or discord guilds). No one can stop them from doing group content the way they want then. It's the only answer if you don't like to play meta builds.

AyaDark · November 2020

colossalvoids wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

They even do not understand that it is 2020 year and this meta is already too old even to be a meta. It is not already a meta - it is just like "top score players was accostomed to play like this".

Mother sorrow from 2016 year in all builds - seriosly ?

- It is already 2020, it was tons of updates. Do you know it ?
- Mother sorrow !!!

Who are "they" you keep talking about? And why do you try to play with "them"? I'm sure you can find people who think like you and are skilled like you, so play with those people. There are always people who blindly follow meta, just ignore them if you don't like them.

Also, mother's sorrow is still a very strong set. Not only it increases your dmg output (assuming you run a decent dps rotation and not a bunch of proc sets) but it also affects your self heals (by a lot if you also use shadow mundus).

A lot of our russian players unfortunatly.
I think the same problems for all players with not English first language.

And i always play with thinking groups and players, but not to many of them.

Always have the same problems - people try to copy thingth that they do not understand and use it in wrong way.

One of the reasons why all russian speaking players i know never play with full russian groups, too much of "I've heard it's that way" while there are multitude of ways available and non constructive empty talking eating too much time, also not being able to find a compromise and talk things through.

True. And to play with english speaking is hard for some our group members - they do not understand each other.
So we are limited in choise if we want to play together.

So 2 language + time need to say the same as example.

As example i once see healer - he play really good.
He was from China and now live in German.

So it was hard to speak even on english with him, because he learn German and his first language was not english too.

zvavi · November 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

They even do not understand that it is 2020 year and this meta is already too old even to be a meta. It is not already a meta - it is just like "top score players was accostomed to play like this".

Mother sorrow from 2016 year in all builds - seriosly ?

- It is already 2020, it was tons of updates. Do you know it ?
- Mother sorrow !!!

Who are "they" you keep talking about? And why do you try to play with "them"? I'm sure you can find people who think like you and are skilled like you, so play with those people. There are always people who blindly follow meta, just ignore them if you don't like them.

Also, mother's sorrow is still a very strong set. Not only it increases your dmg output (assuming you run a decent dps rotation and not a bunch of proc sets) but it also affects your self heals (by a lot if you also use shadow mundus).

A lot of our russian players unfortunatly.
I think the same problems for all players with not English first language.

And i always play with thinking groups and players, but not to many of them.

Always have the same problems - people try to copy thingth that they do not understand and use it in wrong way.

I actually never had an issue with russian players. Whenever I pug vDLC and I get inexperienced pugs, I have higher success rate with russians, they are willing to listen to mechanics (usually).

Thor199389 · November 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

How is it fun if you have to redo your toon or make a new one just to do a vet trial? There should be more viability at endgame.
That said, part of the problem is the players. Maybe some of the builds are actually viable but everyone's afraid to fail so no matter what they will peer pressure people into meta builds.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Another problem is that players who insist on meta builds then also insist on setting the difficulty bar for achievements.
This just ends up reducing the viable builds for endgame achievements. When the window for success is very small, people start playing math and then get upset when everyone else doesn't do the same to contribute to success.

Basically, it's the fault of players. Especially "veteran" and "endgame" elitists.

Maybe some players are a problem, but its not about the "endgame elitists". Most groups are okay with a non meta build as long as you do your job (which means e.g. do the same amount of damage that a meta build would do).
Thing is, there is a reason why meta is meta. If a group of players wants to push for an achievement its up to them what they require for a player to do. Its not up to you to tell them what they may expect from you. Their group, their rules. Simple as that. Dont want to follow? Make your own group and see where it leads. If you do not want to put effort into it, dont blame others for doing it.

Other than scorepushing groups - I would say Liko will outparse 99% of the Players on any class. So it might lead to the conclusion that it is not a matter of the class but a matter of the player playing the class. But that is just my unpopular opinion.

AyaDark · November 2020

zvavi wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

They even do not understand that it is 2020 year and this meta is already too old even to be a meta. It is not already a meta - it is just like "top score players was accostomed to play like this".

Mother sorrow from 2016 year in all builds - seriosly ?

- It is already 2020, it was tons of updates. Do you know it ?
- Mother sorrow !!!

Who are "they" you keep talking about? And why do you try to play with "them"? I'm sure you can find people who think like you and are skilled like you, so play with those people. There are always people who blindly follow meta, just ignore them if you don't like them.

Also, mother's sorrow is still a very strong set. Not only it increases your dmg output (assuming you run a decent dps rotation and not a bunch of proc sets) but it also affects your self heals (by a lot if you also use shadow mundus).

A lot of our russian players unfortunatly.
I think the same problems for all players with not English first language.

And i always play with thinking groups and players, but not to many of them.

Always have the same problems - people try to copy thingth that they do not understand and use it in wrong way.

I actually never had an issue with russian players. Whenever I pug vDLC and I get inexperienced pugs, I have higher success rate with russians, they are willing to listen to mechanics (usually).

Russian people who know english is not as bad

A lot that do not know it are not bad too, but a lot of our players are:

But there is kind of our players like - "do not know nothing, do not want to do anything, even if you learn russian and try to tell me i will not do anything".
Not the best type of players.

And i really do not like to play with this part if our russian community .
They do not listen, always hear some thing and newer try to understand it. We have 5 big clans like this - very toxic and all game guides and etc are from them.
They do not let players play the way they like, extreamly toxic.

And on our forums they " i hope " really hates me, because they always looks like clowns after i communicate with them.

But just to many of them.

Just as example look in RU section of this forums. It is near epmty

All use other forums, even do not know may be about it.

So all information they have is very ... limited by those guides.
They can not read the sources on engluish, they believe in thingth they hear before.
And they really do not like to think.

Daemons_Bane · November 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

How about some justice for crafters instead.? We were promised, back in the days of launch, that we could level up our characters AS crafters.. we never could, as in ever.. we still had/have to do quests and farm skyshards to get levels and skillpoints

You can get a lot of exp on craft, writs.
Skill points can be get by skyshards.
I really do not like quests. I have 20k- achivment points because of it. And it is really hard content for me - because in any game i play - 30 minutes of quests and i can not do anything with it - i just sleeping.

So i really understand your pain. But skyshards are not that bad - i like see the world when i gather it

It does not matter whether skyshards are bad or not.. a promise was made to us.. a promise that was not kept.. even the PvP crowd had more promises kept to them than crafters

Grianasteri · November 2020

Im not answering with any of those options. None are appropriate.

The meta will always be the meta, all it means is maximum optimisation for any given state of the game, which the elite end of the spectrum will always strive for.

But something I think a lot of players, particularly average, casual ones who perhaps drift past these forums or redits etc, probably dont understand enough, is that the meta generally only makes a noticeable difference at the elite end of the spectrum. For everyone else, a few percent difference here and there is insignificant and most wont even notice it, therefore play as you want, is absolutely possible, within reason.

One class or set, may well outperform others by a few % on average according to any given meta... if you are doing 90K dps, thats quite a few thousand. If you are an average, casual player, with related dps, say less than 25k dps... well then a few % is much more negligible, its not a big deal if you do 25,000 dps or 26,000 dps, is it.

Note I am not criticising the meta, I have a number of meta focused builds and yes, they tend to do more damage and perform better in end game. But the majority of my builds are self created, themed or just for fun and most still have no trouble engaging with vet content. All I am saying is, the reality is that for most folk, adherence to the meta set ups is not going to magically make them a better player or kick out much more dps.

I think Alcast did a recent vid where he showed parse information for meta set ups, and also with "trash", Julianos etc on. The difference was literally just a few %, and thats an elite end player who can do 90k dps etc. Think about that for an average player, casual player... now chill out and play how you want

Varana · November 2020

I'm levelling my banking alt through crafting writs. She's level 25 now.
It's definitely possible, just very, very slow.