Will we ever get back to "play the way you want"? PvE version

Araneae6537

When were all builds or even all classes equal??? It seems to me that something is always meta and some are always calling for something to be nerfed. Vet dungeons are the level I like — challenging (well, some much more so than others) but you’re expected to know what you’re doing, not that you have to be meta. Now vet trials are supposed to be the ultimate in PVE content difficulty, are they not? It does not surprise me that most groups would want some meta composition or else everyone’s job is harder.

Drdeath20

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

Templar tanks are inferior in every way bcz well they bring nothing to the table but you can still clear 90% of the content as 1.

SeaGtGruff

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

I had to go with the "We already can" option, because it seems to be truest. I've always played that way, and haven't minded very much that I usually stink because of it. As to whether other people have minded playing downwind of me, I don't really know and don't much care.

Sylvermynx

Other: since I don't do group content, and mostly I play every spec/class/race (except necro; and no orcs or argonians), I DO play exactly the way I want. And I'll continue to do so.

tmbrinks

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Templar tanks are inferior in every way bcz well they bring nothing to the table but you can still clear 90% of the content as 1.

You can clear 100% of it. You might not be able to do score pushing.

I don't even main a tank. Yet I've gotten most of my trifectas (in dungeons) as a Templar Tank, just converting my healer main to one. I'm a mediocre tank at best.

Anybody who says you can't "clear" any content on any class is not being honest. Any class composition in any combination with competent players can clear ANY and ALL content in this game. Period.

You may not get Dawnbringer or Godslayer or the 4-man Trifectas on any composition, but to be able to clear the content. Yes, easily.

Cirantille

Going to speak for healing...

I healed on all classes and they are all perfectly capable of healing anything in the game.
The problem is people are close minded.
I don't even attempt to PvE at this point because I am sick of micro managing, toxic groups.
At least in PvP, people are more open minded and welcoming.

Also DK is the only class which has access to 1 button, unconditional major-mending, so yeah they are pretty tanky + huge heals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3b9SRde6IM&t=123s

Raideen

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

This thread bums me out. I play magicka universally, except for my farming toon. Mag Templar is my new main. To think that class/spec is getting nerfed is saddening.

You are not getting nerfed, as a matter of fact, under optimal circumstances, which the dummy has always been a rough but satisfactory example of. Your DPS is going up, everyone's is. These people whining are like supporters of professional football teams, they support magicka, and now that stam are ahead under the most optimal of circumstances, which I might add, is more difficult to achieve as stamina, are going to make irrational complaints, because their bias is itself irrational.

If everyones DPS is going up the same (to balance for content), but the light attack on "ranged classes" (which my templar is not) is getting nerfed, then that is a nerf I dont care how you spin it.

Magicka Templars are already under performing and as many others have said in this thread, that they are not invited to trials on magicka templars, then there is no reason for this light attack nerf to be implemented.

pod88kk

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

There's always going to be a best way to do things, sure you could run a marathon backwards or hop it on one foot but you're likely better off running it the conventional way to do it in the quickest time.

You can't get mad that someone did it faster than you by doing it a better way.

Everest_Lionheart

Raideen wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

This thread bums me out. I play magicka universally, except for my farming toon. Mag Templar is my new main. To think that class/spec is getting nerfed is saddening.

You are not getting nerfed, as a matter of fact, under optimal circumstances, which the dummy has always been a rough but satisfactory example of. Your DPS is going up, everyone's is. These people whining are like supporters of professional football teams, they support magicka, and now that stam are ahead under the most optimal of circumstances, which I might add, is more difficult to achieve as stamina, are going to make irrational complaints, because their bias is itself irrational.

If everyones DPS is going up the same (to balance for content), but the light attack on "ranged classes" (which my templar is not) is getting nerfed, then that is a nerf I dont care how you spin it.

Magicka Templars are already under performing and as many others have said in this thread, that they are not invited to trials on magicka templars, then there is no reason for this light attack nerf to be implemented.

Magplars aren’t getting into many prog groups because people want those Necro ults and magblade has separated from the pack in the DPS department right now. Sorcs and DK hit harder so they end up in the group before most plars. It’s why I made a DK because my magplar was a bit behind. Still prefer the plar in 4 man though. Better overall group utility I find especially when we run 3DD groups. The magplar can cover the shards, orbs and heal the group.

JKorr

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Since we're back on the Stamina is king train ... AGAIN... are the devs ever going to get it right, where all magicka and all stamina builds are mostly equal?
I'm referring to things like... Magplar DPS in vet trials. I haven't seen one in ages. Magden DPS in vet trials, I'm the only one in my 2 PvE guilds. Templar and Sorc tanks (there are some but it's not common), NB and DK healers (more than there used to be but still not common), DK DPS, and the list goes on.

Yes, it is possible to play any build on any class, but on some, DPS is limited (if you can do 80k on a magicka warden, great. Most people can't even do a measly 35k) Templar tanking is possible, but it has a lot of drawbacks. DK and NB healing is possible, even in vet trials, but only very dedicated healers use these classes. I get tired of seeing the same group compositions in every trial.

As long as people want record speed runs, or the most damage, or the highest ever dps, *whatever* they can be competitive about, no, there is no way to "play as you want".

The people who aren't rabidly competitive, who don't care that their character doesn't manage 75 billion dps, who use the crafted gear that suits the way they want to play, who play for fun and relaxation already do play the way they want.

Banana

Group. No. Solo. Yes

CrashTest

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

Banana wrote: »

Group. No. Solo. Yes

Pretty much this. When you're alone, sure, do whatever you want. But when you're in a group, be considerate of your group mates and contribute more than your presence by using what complements your group. Save your High Elf stamina Nightblade dual wield/ice staff healer for soloing.

mav1234

Play as you want was always about soloing the overworld content. It was never about equality of effectiveness across build, skill, class, and role choice.

AyaDark

I play just as i like, but it is not an easy way
Always some kind of - "use this, use that" - but i just say to them - LTP - you are not needed

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/ru/discussion/550729/ha-bildy-mama-ya-heviataker

lolo_01b16_ESO

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

In my opinion many people focus too much on what is currently meta. Just play the class you like and become good with it.
And to be honest classes and mag vs stam are actually quite well balanced in pve. If you play an off meta class, your raid group might lose 1-2% group dps compared to having a similar skilled player on a different class. Which shouldn't matter unless you go for leaderboard scores.

colossalvoids

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

You can play the way you want now.

You was perfectly able to play mag in stamina meta as you were able to play stam in mag meta. It had zero influence on 99% of playerbase which wasn't going for scores. Nowadays playing field more even than ever, you have plenty of choice. You can even beat lots of scores still and be on boards with whatever class you chose, no wr but still competitive, it depends on your group overall optimisation and your player skill way more.

Naftal

This thread implies that there was a time when anyone could play anything and it was good. I haven't been active for the whole time since release but I don't think it's ever been like that.

Are you remembering a time when you played easier content solo so no one was there to tell you to use something better?

Knightpanther

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

BUT you dont suck if you never do trials or group dungeons.
Im solo non meta, full heavy, magika sorcerer (non pet) and i wreck stuff pve.

Be safe

BXR_Lonestar

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

Playing the way you want doesn't mean that you'll always have the most efficient character. Sure, you can make a hybrid character like a spellsword - dump a ton of points into magic and use a dual wield/2handed weapon, but it is never going to be as effective as using a staff as a weapon instead.

Everything IS viable at a basic level of play, but if you are looking to be able to complete the hardest content or compete for score runs, you just aren't going to be competitive with wonky builds. Which is fine. Some people enjoy doing their own thing, and others will constantly be chasing the meta.

JinMori

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

There never was, it's just marketing, matter of fact is that different sets do different things, classes are different etc, so unless you standardize everything, especially sets, you will never reach the "dream".

And it's probably something you don't want either way.

Classes shoud be as closely balanced as possible, while being different in the way they play, and sets are just completely different on what they do on a conceptual point, defensive sets, dps sets, healing sets etc, if you build a dps character but use a healing set you will never reach what you want.

So play how you want, was, and never will be real.

Amarthiul

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Also, getting 35k on a magden takes a lot of work, Alcast’s build won’t do it unless you can ani-cancel perfectly, every time, and never get lag. I live in the real world, and use an very non meta rotation and slightly off meta build. Most players won’t bother with that, and I can guarantee you no one is going to roll a new magden dps to apply minor brittle.

35k may get you through stuff, but it’s not the easiest.

35k on which dummy?

Kiralyn2000

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

...which is true of any online game. No matter how much the devs try to make it "balanced" or "any style", the theorycrafters will find The Best Way,* declare it to be meta, and people making groups for high-end content will kick you for doing anything else.


* and in finding the "best way", the theorycrafters will also find synergies and combinations that never occurred to the devs, making builds that are vastly better, regardless of attempts to make things "any way you want".



(later, in an effort to keep providing "challenge", the devs will make the next content harder for the meta players, thereby forcing more people to play 'better' builds.)

Sanguinor2

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Templar tanks are inferior in every way bcz well they bring nothing to the table but you can still clear 90% of the content as 1.

I templar tank in a DB prog group. Wanna know what I tank in trash and each boss?
In trash I only debuff and chain small adds, mt takes all big adds and is fine.
On 1st boss I only guard a dd or the mt and play as healer otherwise.
On 2nd boss I only guard a dd or the mt and play as healer otherwise.
On 3rd boss I only guard the mt and play as a healer otherwise.
Sure feel valuable as a tank when after 1 blocked heavy from anything big I have to pray for my healer to burst heal me fast enough since the only way I can burst heal myself is if either all the group is dead for repentance or all enemies are dead for repentance.

CrashTest

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I templar tank in a DB prog group.

What's DB?

GrimTheReaper45

Now while I dont think that the game is perfectly balanced by any means, it has gotten worse over the years. I will say trials guilds are a poor judge of balance.

trials guild says only xyz is viable, not a great indicator of what is useable
trials guild stacking blank with the best dps. With every buff imaginable. Say blank is easy. not a great indicator of difficulty.

The whole extreme min/max that goes on there is just fairly bad for game health.

Narvuntien

You can play the way you want now! But you'll suck if you choose the wrong way.

Very very very few people play Vet Trials or even vet DLC dungeons and basically everything else can be done with any kind of sub-optimal build.

Things like fake tanking and fake healing have more to do with how you play not what you choose to play... if that makes sense.
How to tank normal anything: Taunt, stand still, don't die.
How to Heal in normal anything: Make sure people don't die (buffs would be super helpful though).

I have played for 6 years, I have only attempted vet trials a couple of times, otherwise I really enjoy playing Normal trials.

Sanguinor2

CrashTest wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I templar tank in a DB prog group.

What's DB?

Dawnbringer aka all achievements in kynes aegis.

barney2525

The title and the poll don't seem to go together.

You ask if we will be able to " Get Back to " play the way we want - as if we have been told we can no longer do this ...

and then you put up a poll talking about build combat disparity - which is something that has been fluctuating every few months for literally years.... and probably will change again in the future.

weird poll

IMHO

Contaminate

While NB dps roles (*cough*magblade*could*) could stand to have some of their old power returned, for the most part you can tank, heal, and dps with any class and any resource spec to an effective degree, provided you have the skill for it.

If you wanna be in the high-demand endgame scene, obviously you gotta get used to the ever-shifting meta. Anyway, we’re still neck deep in “mag supremacy”. Hard to compete with that amount of safety and cleave when damage numbers are fairly close.

Vanagrand

Is a PVE community problem more than a game design problem. You want to min max yes or yes, so you follow what better players tell you to do. In PVP you can follow build, but at the end you build something more of your taste and playstyle and nobody will say, no, don't go with that. At least, not the majority of guilds.