GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

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kathandira wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I feel it is more important for a player to actually learn to tank instead of dealing with a crutch which is all an AoE taunt in ESO is as we clearly do not actually need it by any means.

Thing is, if Zos added an actual AoE taunt then we would have tanks that never actually learned to tank well because they went EZ mode. If they ever wanted to get serious about tanking and get into challenging trials they would quickly find they need to quickly learn to hold groups of NPCs by only using the single-target tanks or get kicked from the raid group for being a bad tank. All because they did not develop the actual player skill.

Mmm, the good ol' crutch argument.

I tell the same thing to my little cousins about riding a bicycle for the first time. No, you don't get training wheels to learn the basics of riding a bike because "if you ever wanted to get serious about [cycling on a team you'll get kicked from the team for being a bad cyclist]"... all because they did not develop the actual skill of riding a bike without training wheels.

Or... I dunno... maybe, the wheels could eventually come off? Just a thought.

I mean that's fine, just tell your cousin to spend some skill points on the soul magic passives. No matter how bad the bike ride, he'll be able to recover from the worst of it once an hour without even needing a soul gem.

Or, maybe, the "training wheels," are playing non-DLC dungeons on normal, as you're leveling.

Paramedicus wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Auto Healing - There are a few, but off top of my head, Leeching Plate.

which class have this cool skill leeching plate?

kathandira wrote: »

Pending on your build, it really isn't a waste at all.
Blocking to activate is actually doing two things at once, rather than only 1, so it is more beneficial than not using it in this case. And it's range is just as long as Silver Leash.

If u cant wear SoB then it is wasted 4 of 5 times.
I never used it in pve but it sounds like lotta perm blocking just to pull some trash (if it decides to actually hit you instead of teammate). Sounds bit unreliable or source consuming (u always need to taunt and keep block to pull). Idk, not that silver leash is great.

It's an armor set that drops in Imperial City Prison (Leeching Plate). It does have pretty powerful healing, especially if you have a lot of mobs on you.

Ysbriel wrote: »

After ready through all the rebuttals to this idea i can safely say, add a AoE Taunt, give it a cooldown so its not a spammable.

As a general rule, ESO's design eschews cooldowns on active skills. Proc sets, passives, potions? Sure. But not on the activated skills themselves.

the only way they could implement a cooldown on a active skill is to make said skill an ulitmate.

at first i was like; no ESO does not need an AoE taunt, because reasons other people have given in this thread allready (target prio, AoE CC and so on)
but i can see how tanking is hard to learn for beginners, and by now i am thinking about the "oh snap" button as a training wheel.
Implementing an Ultimate that is an AoE taunt (SnB skillline i guess?) could give newcommer Tanks that desired safetynet while learning which targets they need to prio and which they can CC. furthermore it does not lead to a bad habbit in just standing there, aoe taunting every third skill and be happy about the "awesome" "tanking" they are doing.

I could see that as a compromise tbh.

Xuhora wrote: »

the only way they could implement a cooldown on a active skill is to make said skill an ulitmate.

at first i was like; no ESO does not need an AoE taunt, because reasons other people have given in this thread allready (target prio, AoE CC and so on)
but i can see how tanking is hard to learn for beginners, and by now i am thinking about the "oh snap" button as a training wheel.
Implementing an Ultimate that is an AoE taunt (SnB skillline i guess?) could give newcommer Tanks that desired safetynet while learning which targets they need to prio and which they can CC. furthermore it does not lead to a bad habbit in just standing there, aoe taunting every third skill and be happy about the "awesome" "tanking" they are doing.

I could see that as a compromise tbh.

When I read your post, I thought the only way to make it an ultimate, would be to put it in the Undaunted skill line. My next thought was that by the time you reach Undaunted 10, you shouldn't be a beginner tank.

Having it in the 1 hand and shield line would mean getting that skill to 50 before it becomes available and you should probably learn to tank before you get there.

I personally don't see a need for an aoe taunt and think the only way for it to happen would be through spell crafting. Like that's gonna be a thing.

starkerealm wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Tormentor enables this with the use of some abilities. Problem is that not enough classes have a direct damage based aoe.

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When you deal direct damage with a Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, you gain 3642 Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance and taunt the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds.

https://eso-sets.com/set/tormentor

Its not about the AoE, it's about the Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability--you're right that not all classes have one of these, but there are out of class options (weapon and guild for example) and sub-class options (werewolf).

However, what makes this viable as AoE Taunt is when the ability used to proc it has splash damage or an AoE component, like explosive charge , dragon leap, brutal pounce, etc

Tormentor would be a fun set to play with...if the 3 and 4 piece weren't such garbage. If 3 and 4 were max stam and max magicka respectively I would definitely farm it. As a tank, the very LAST thing I need is healing received...even if I am getting no heals from the healer I am perfectly able to outheal any incoming damage. To make a real difference in healing received you would have to have 4 bonuses...below that...you just double cast(or cast 2 different heals) instead if you get that low on health.

No, no, you're thinking of health recovery. Health recovery is hot garbage. Healing taken isn't exciting, but it does help you stay in the fight.

No it really doesnt. lets say its gold and 3 and 4 give you 6% healing taken instead of 4%...together, that is a whopping 12% healing taken...that means if you get healed for 10000 normally...you get healed for 11200 instead.....really? Ok, double that to big heals and instead of 20,000 you are getting 22400 instead...2400 health is not going to make a difference 99% of the time...and 1200 health is not going to make a difference 99.999999% of the time as a tank. I can count on one hand in 6 YEARS of playing that I went under 1200 health and still survived...maybe a couple dozen times where I went under 2400 health....but that would apply to max health....healing received is even more worthless, since it happens AFTER you have taken damage...it doesn't prevent anything, it doesn't mitigate anything, in the case of an extra 12%, what that really means is that it saves you(or healer) a cast of a healing spell every 8 casts...whereas if you had 2 max magicka buffs in its place, you could just cast regeneration(or similarly priced heal) instead and outheal it by a LARGE margin.

This is the exact same reason healers and tanks don't run Sanctuary as a set...because its a useless reactive set that only marginally helps afterward...far better to double cast.

Minyassa wrote: »

It would be really nice. Some of us with wonky hands/wrists that cannot target and click around fast would still like to be able to play tanks and help keep our group alive without having to go soak in ice water afterward! xD

Just taunt the priority targets....there are plenty of new tanks out there who can't handle the aggro an entire mob without a lot of healer support anyway.

Here is the fact...most ads in the game aren't dangerous...as a tank, you cast an AOE damage ability(caltrops, wall of elements, whatever) to aggro the mob on you...at this point, you can either root them if you don't feel the snare applied is good enough, or you prioritize the dangerous ads, gargoyles, 2 hander guys, whatever it happens to be and taunt them. by the time you have done that your DPS should have the mob half dead and you turn your attention to ranged targets and drag them in(this ALSO applies to non-ranged targets that may or may not be heading toward your group members). Then you apply a root and the mob is dead unless DPS is low...in which case you re-taunt any dangerous mobs left alive. it does not take high APM to do all this...it just takes situational awareness, which is the number one skill you need to develop as a tank. An AOE taunt would stifle the development of situational awareness as well. Like I said....if you had to implement an AOE taunt, put it on a monster set proc that triggers when you taunt an enemy. That way, tanks that want it can have access to it, but experienced tanks that dont need it can run more useful monster sets and groups aren't going to expect ALL tanks to have it and demand they slot it because it exists.

Paramedicus wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Auto Healing - There are a few, but off top of my head, Leeching Plate.

which class have this cool skill leeching plate?

It's an armor set that drops in Imperial City Prison (Leeching Plate). It does have pretty powerful healing, especially if you have a lot of mobs on you.

/s off

you u need to fulfill two major conditions: 1) u 'waste' 5 pcs 2) u need lotta mobs

even tormentor doesnt give u taunt for free: 1) u 'waste' 5 pcs 2) u need to use specific skill

so i think it is fair trade: it makes newbie tank's life easier, but it comes at cost

adding aoe taunt skill is against that philosophy

I didn't know you were being sarcastic in that post. haha

I just saw a post asking what class has this cool skill leeching plate while reading through the thread and noticed no one answered you. So if you were just joking ignore my post. I wasn't trying to make an argument either for or against using it.

Ysbriel wrote: »

@starkerealm but aren’t AoE cooldowns comming soon? or was that idea canned?

They've been doing some testing in Cyrodiil to try to identify the most significant source of lag. To that end, yeah, they implemented a cooldown on AoE abilities to see what effect it had on server performance. I haven't been participating in those tests, but from what I've heard, that experiment was a dud, with lag remaining as bad as usual if not worse.

So, it's not that the idea was canned, or that this was coming in the future, per se. It was an experiment, they've collected the data, and moved on to testing other things.

While, I get that it's frustrating for the players in PvP, I'm glad that ZOS is finally taking the Cyrodiil issue seriously enough that they're using the place as a lab to collect data and try to identify the problem.