Crafting Surveys -Quality of Life

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

So many players ignore crafting because they think its too complicated or monotonous, and not rewarding enough for the effort. Traits that take a month to research? Really? Crafting can use several QOL improvements.

This i agree with completely. I stopped crafting gear long ago because of these reasons, and because the gear was soon replaced by better gear from drops anyway. All I craft now is furnishings.

I'd love to see a furniture crafting station where you could access all your furnishing blueprints, etc., in one place, rather than having to visit all the individual stations. And you could only craft furnishings at that station.

I quite fancy that idea! Or at the very least, give us the ability to deconstruct furnishings to get materials back. Furniture crafting is another beast..... trying to get mundane runes???? :'(

Fishing: pleeeeeease let us filet fish in bulk at the provisioning station, similar to how we refine materials at crafting stations.

idk · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

So many players ignore crafting because they think its too complicated or monotonous, and not rewarding enough for the effort. Traits that take a month to research? Really? Crafting can use several QOL improvements.

Researching traits is not complicated nor does it require enough of our time to be considered monotonous. Start the research and then do whatever we want until it is done. Further, I get free research scrolls from the free crates Zos gives us for setting a PC to stream twich. We can also purchase more research scrolls via the master writs, iirc, and the crown store.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

idk wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

So many players ignore crafting because they think its too complicated or monotonous, and not rewarding enough for the effort. Traits that take a month to research? Really? Crafting can use several QOL improvements.

Researching traits is not complicated nor does it require enough of our time to be considered monotonous. Start the research and then do whatever we want until it is done. Further, I get free research scrolls from the free crates Zos gives us for setting a PC to stream twich. We can also purchase more research scrolls via the master writs, iirc, and the crown store.

Exactly. How is that a rewarding experience? You set a timer, and wait. You then do non-crafting-activities while you wait. And those scrolls wouldn't be necessary if there wasn't such a ridiculous timer to begin with. I created my guild to help new players, and the most common complaint about crafting is research.

Your suggestion is in-game purchases or to engage in out-of-game activities to alleviate the frustrations of the existing crafting system in-game? I rest my case.

I am almost a master crafter. Just a handful of traits left. I could've been done by now (I take breaks, and occasionally forget about long-wait research), but I definitely don't slack off on research or crafting writs. Its been almost a year since I started playing, and I still don't know all the traits.... that is the problem. What a cheap, meaningless way to keep players "engaged."

Don't get me wrong, I like crafting, its why I put up with it. Outfit system? Love it. But I'm not blind to the major flaws.

idk · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

So many players ignore crafting because they think its too complicated or monotonous, and not rewarding enough for the effort. Traits that take a month to research? Really? Crafting can use several QOL improvements.

Researching traits is not complicated nor does it require enough of our time to be considered monotonous. Start the research and then do whatever we want until it is done. Further, I get free research scrolls from the free crates Zos gives us for setting a PC to stream twich. We can also purchase more research scrolls via the master writs, iirc, and the crown store.

Exactly. How is that a rewarding experience? You set a timer, and wait.
You then do non-crafting-activities while you wait. And those scrolls wouldn't be necessary if there wasn't such a ridiculous timer to begin with. I created my guild to help new players, and the most common complaint about crafting is research.

Your suggestion is in-game purchases or to engage in out-of-game activities to alleviate the frustrations of the existing crafting system in-game? I rest my case.

I am almost a master crafter. Just a handful of traits left. I could've been done by now (I take breaks, and occasionally forget about long-wait research), but I definitely don't slack off on research or crafting writs. Its been almost a year since I started playing, and I still don't know all the traits.... that is the problem. What a cheap, meaningless way to keep players "engaged."

Don't get me wrong, I like crafting, its why I put up with it. Outfit system? Love it. But I'm not blind to the major flaws.

How is pressing a button on a PC to do anything a rewarding experience? Seriously, that is what you are asking here and it can apply to anything and everything about playing a game.

You claimed that so many players ignore crafting because it was complicated and monotonous. I merely pointed out the fact that it is neither. It is rather simple and straightforward. We do not have to spend much actual time researching traits, which was your example. Click a button and go do what we want. What is so complicated about that?

But what is rewarding about finishing out crafting? First, the easy part to do, leveling it up, is we can upgrade any gear we get as drops for a lower cost than if we had not leveled up the crafting line. We can change traits on gear which reduces the time needed to do a monotonous and boring grind of the same content over and over. We will soon be able to craft any gear we have equipped. Let us not forget one of the most lucrative means to earn gold in-game is doing the quick writs each day. That is a monotonous grind but the benefit of the fast gold is very sweet.

That is very rewarding. If someone finds it too monotonous to click a button every once in a while to obtain those perks then that is a personal issue.

spartaxoxo · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

I just wonder when all these "QoL" changes will end up killing the game. Why even play if you have addons or assistants to play for you? I'd think that would create tedium faster than anything.

I don't really consider going to a spot and pressing x a couple of times playing the game. It's busy work. It's designed to be a tedious chore so less people do it.

spartaxoxo · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

I personally believe there is a middle ground between not automating everything and automating nothing.

Surveys don't have any actual gameplay. The vast majority of time doing multiple surveys is actually just loading screens. Seems like a perfect task for automation to me.

SilverBride · October 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't really consider going to a spot and pressing x a couple of times playing the game. It's busy work. It's designed to be a tedious chore so less people do it.

Every single thing you do in a game involves pressing something. Gathering surveys is playing the game as much as anything else is. It's productive and some players find it enjoyable.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

idk wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

So many players ignore crafting because they think its too complicated or monotonous, and not rewarding enough for the effort. Traits that take a month to research? Really? Crafting can use several QOL improvements.

Researching traits is not complicated nor does it require enough of our time to be considered monotonous. Start the research and then do whatever we want until it is done. Further, I get free research scrolls from the free crates Zos gives us for setting a PC to stream twich. We can also purchase more research scrolls via the master writs, iirc, and the crown store.

Exactly. How is that a rewarding experience? You set a timer, and wait.
You then do non-crafting-activities while you wait. And those scrolls wouldn't be necessary if there wasn't such a ridiculous timer to begin with. I created my guild to help new players, and the most common complaint about crafting is research.

Your suggestion is in-game purchases or to engage in out-of-game activities to alleviate the frustrations of the existing crafting system in-game? I rest my case.

I am almost a master crafter. Just a handful of traits left. I could've been done by now (I take breaks, and occasionally forget about long-wait research), but I definitely don't slack off on research or crafting writs. Its been almost a year since I started playing, and I still don't know all the traits.... that is the problem. What a cheap, meaningless way to keep players "engaged."

Don't get me wrong, I like crafting, its why I put up with it. Outfit system? Love it. But I'm not blind to the major flaws.

How is pressing a button on a PC to do anything a rewarding experience? Seriously, that is what you are asking here and it can apply to anything and everything about playing a game.

You claimed that so many players ignore crafting because it was complicated and monotonous. I merely pointed out the fact that it is neither. It is rather simple and straightforward. We do not have to spend much actual time researching traits, which was your example. Click a button and go do what we want. What is so complicated about that?

But what is rewarding about finishing out crafting? First, the easy part to do, leveling it up, is we can upgrade any gear we get as drops for a lower cost than if we had not leveled up the crafting line. We can change traits on gear which reduces the time needed to do a monotonous and boring grind of the same content over and over. We will soon be able to craft any gear we have equipped. Let us not forget one of the most lucrative means to earn gold in-game is doing the quick writs each day. That is a monotonous grind but the benefit of the fast gold is very sweet.

That is very rewarding. If someone finds it too monotonous to click a button every once in a while to obtain those perks then that is a personal issue.

Its easy to make an argument when you cut quotes and simplify points so far down they lose context...

You just keep proving my point: if anyone is into crafting, ESO crafting isn't scratching that itch. Researching traits could be something like deconstructing ever so many pieces with a particular trait to learn it. That involves actual crafting. Instead, you do research by not spending time at the crafting station. How is that crafting???

Leveling crafting is a joke, I maxed out alchemy, provisioning, and enchanting in one sitting (and all three in the same day). How is that challenging/rewarding? Not even TESV:Skyrim allows you to level crafting that fast.

My point is.... its not a deep/involved system. Its TOO simple, yet still very complicated for a new player: several crafting stations, materials, levels, traits, styles......... Its busy work. And the crafted sets available do not compare to dungeon/overland/trial sets, making your time investment not that worth it. Further, its like that on purpose, because ESO prioritizes the PvE grind over crafters.

Furnishing crafting, however, has a more reliable market imo. But even then, it has its own set of pain points, and several threads about them already. Mundane runes? Pain to obtain, or expensive, and are used up on crafting just a few furnishings. Yet players are expected to buy 700 slot homes, and to be honest, thats not even enough slots!

To make things worse, bots hold the majority of the market (regarding crafting mats). I make it a point to not by mats from guild traders, unless its one of my guilds' stores. Perfect roe? Enjoy spending several days/weeks, or gold, for just ONE.

As an MMO, I don't deny that things must take a liiiiiittle longer to keep players engaged, but ESO has stepped over that line and just outright disrespects players time.

Extra convenient how you left out the fact that it will soon be a year and I am still not a master crafter. I have taken 2 around-1-month-long breaks since I started playing, and will occasionally forget to start research for a week. However, had I done things perfectly, it still would have been almost a year.

If there are 7 gear slots per 3 gear weights, that makes a total of 21 traits that will take 30 days to research for the average player. That does not account for the fact you can research 3 at a time, but it also doesn't account for jewelry traits that will need researched (and rarer to obtain), or how the second to last trait would still take 2 weeks, the one prior one week? Something like that. And in game purchases is not a solution, its part of the problem.

The crafting system was not designed to be intuitive or rewarding, it was designed to be a lucrative time suck.

Again, I play ESO just about every day, and I still love it despite its flaws, but lets not pretend its perfect or that it doesn't need improvements here or there.

BXR_Lonestar · October 2020

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

I will just put this out there

I would pay a decent amount of crowns for an Assistant who could be sent to collect all my Crafting Surveys (Alchemy, Enchanting, Woodworking etc). Let us buy an assistant who can be sent out once a week or once a month to collect all our gathered Crafting Surveys and bring back the materials a day or so later.

So much time is taken up by collecting the surveys, it is just not an enjoyable use of time (for some). While some would prefer spending their time doing Trials, House Decorations, PvP, what have you, the surveys end up piling up. I don't want to spend hours upon hours running around different maps to collect the crafting mats. I have already completed 90% of the maps in the game.. Let me spend the time how I like, while I can still get the crafting mats which I have earned from doing Writs, and which I need the mats from to do crafting on gear for my adventures.

Pretty please?

Someone posted a month or so back that it would be nice to be able to assign your surveys to your hirelings instead of having them give you random stuff, and I think that would be a great idea. It would be an option available to anyone with the skill points to invest in hirelings and it would help slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by a lot.

Sometimes I don't mind doing my surveys, but other times, I look in my inventory and see 40-50 of them and I just want to log off.

Taleof2Cities · October 2020

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

I will just put this out there

I would pay a decent amount of crowns for an Assistant who could be sent to collect all my Crafting Surveys (Alchemy, Enchanting, Woodworking etc). Let us buy an assistant who can be sent out once a week or once a month to collect all our gathered Crafting Surveys and bring back the materials a day or so later.

So much time is taken up by collecting the surveys, it is just not an enjoyable use of time (for some). While some would prefer spending their time doing Trials, House Decorations, PvP, what have you, the surveys end up piling up. I don't want to spend hours upon hours running around different maps to collect the crafting mats. I have already completed 90% of the maps in the game.. Let me spend the time how I like, while I can still get the crafting mats which I have earned from doing Writs, and which I need the mats from to do crafting on gear for my adventures.

Pretty please?

Someone posted a month or so back that it would be nice to be able to assign your surveys to your hirelings instead of having them give you random stuff, and I think that would be a great idea. It would be an option available to anyone with the skill points to invest in hirelings and it would help slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by a lot.

Sometimes I don't mind doing my surveys, but other times, I look in my inventory and see 40-50 of them and I just want to log off.

What would happen if you slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by actually doing fewer writ dailies, @BXR_Lonestar?

That way, you're not looking at 40-50 at a time ...

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

Surveys don't have any actual gameplay. The vast majority of time doing multiple surveys is actually just loading screens. Seems like a perfect task for automation to me.

So, there's no gameplay between the zone's wayshrine and the survey site itself?

For me, it's a chance to collect a few more mats, continuing to level skills, pick up mages guild skill books, and start or finish a quest.

You think it's a "tedious chore" ... I think it's an opportunity.

linuxlady · October 2020

Stinkyremy wrote: »

An assistant to puck up treasure map loot too
Ohh and an assistant to go around every trader and check for an Item I want so I can tell what store has the item for cheapest.....
Yeah, ZOS aren't really gonna help us out with QoL like that.

TTC on the web does that for you

SilverBride · October 2020

I don't think it's a good idea to completely automate surveys, but they could make some improvements, as some have suggested.

Let players collect all the surveys located in the same spot at once.
Consolidate the survey spots in each zone so they are concentrated in a small area, rather than spread out all over the zone.

This should greatly cut down on the time needed to complete these.

doomette · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ilovemycats wrote: »

Going out and doing surveys can be grueling but it is so satisfying when you finally go out and do your surveys and have thousands of mats to refine. Wouldn't be as satisfying if you just got an assistant to do them. Also, yeah, it would break the economy and nothing is easy, if you want to make gold or get mats you should have to work for it.

The economy is already broke. You mean people would be forced to sell things at a reasonable rate instead of price gouging? You mean more players would have access to materials so that actual players will make a profit instead of mat bots? Yah, sign me up for that broke-ness.

Nothing can really be done about materials that heavily rely on RNG, i.e perfect roe, bots will always hold most of the market for that. However, if more players had easy access to basic materials, the economy would be BETTER for it, not suffer. A well balanced survey assistant would put those profits back in the hands of actual players who earn it (yes, they did the writ, they earned it). Besides, surveys are just another rudimentary method for them to slow players down/waste our time.

Just curious, what do you think is a fair price for a stack of basic materials? I’ve found on both PC and XBox ingots, planks, leather, and cloth are all quite cheap. So much so that I have thousands of them (on console, just got to 160 on PC) but don’t find it worth it to sell them because the price is so low. And I’m definitely not super duper rich, the most I’ve had in the bank at one time was probably 1.5 million (that’s long gone, dang Proudspire Manner). Heck I regular give guildies stacks of mats for free if they need it.
Alchemy mats, yeah, those can be pricey because they’re used in consumables and harder to farm for specific reagents.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

doomette wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ilovemycats wrote: »

Going out and doing surveys can be grueling but it is so satisfying when you finally go out and do your surveys and have thousands of mats to refine. Wouldn't be as satisfying if you just got an assistant to do them. Also, yeah, it would break the economy and nothing is easy, if you want to make gold or get mats you should have to work for it.

The economy is already broke. You mean people would be forced to sell things at a reasonable rate instead of price gouging? You mean more players would have access to materials so that actual players will make a profit instead of mat bots? Yah, sign me up for that broke-ness.

Nothing can really be done about materials that heavily rely on RNG, i.e perfect roe, bots will always hold most of the market for that. However, if more players had easy access to basic materials, the economy would be BETTER for it, not suffer. A well balanced survey assistant would put those profits back in the hands of actual players who earn it (yes, they did the writ, they earned it). Besides, surveys are just another rudimentary method for them to slow players down/waste our time.

Just curious, what do you think is a fair price for a stack of basic materials? I’ve found on both PC and XBox ingots, planks, leather, and cloth are all quite cheap. So much so that I have thousands of them (on console, just got to 160 on PC) but don’t find it worth it to sell them because the price is so low. And I’m definitely not super duper rich, the most I’ve had in the bank at one time was probably 1.5 million (that’s long gone, dang Proudspire Manner). Heck I regular give guildies stacks of mats for free if they need it.
Alchemy mats, yeah, those can be pricey because they’re used in consumables and harder to farm for specific reagents.

PS4 NA here.

You're right, blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking materials tend to be cheap, and there's usually many sellers. I never buy those things though, I have plenty just from deconstructing gear, and like I've stated before, I quite enjoy going on mat gathering runs, and I haaaave to stop and harvest whatever nodes I stop by lol. If I dont... it makes my eye twitch.

Alchemy, furnishing, and provisioning items. I'm a master cook and alchemist, and that makes up the majority of what I sell in the guild store. I often give guildies psijic ambrosia, and also sell many, so when it comes time to get more perfect roe........ I can spend hours fishing without getting one, and they usually sell for 8K+ each. Mundane runes have been the bane of my existence. I forget the name of it, but there's a woodworking equivalent for furnishing plans. RNG is a [enter creative insult], you can't get these items from crafting writ rewards, and sellers will price gouge because they know how popular they are in the housing community.

There are also so many "players" selling psijic ambrosia for less than 2000K each.... and biiiiig stacks of psijic ambrosia. Do they expect us to believe they are running a non-profit? No, its selling at a deficit honestly. Do they just love fishing so much that they spend all day every day doing nothing else, and want to gift their RNG prowess? That to me screams bots.

doomette · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ilovemycats wrote: »

Going out and doing surveys can be grueling but it is so satisfying when you finally go out and do your surveys and have thousands of mats to refine. Wouldn't be as satisfying if you just got an assistant to do them. Also, yeah, it would break the economy and nothing is easy, if you want to make gold or get mats you should have to work for it.

The economy is already broke. You mean people would be forced to sell things at a reasonable rate instead of price gouging? You mean more players would have access to materials so that actual players will make a profit instead of mat bots? Yah, sign me up for that broke-ness.

Nothing can really be done about materials that heavily rely on RNG, i.e perfect roe, bots will always hold most of the market for that. However, if more players had easy access to basic materials, the economy would be BETTER for it, not suffer. A well balanced survey assistant would put those profits back in the hands of actual players who earn it (yes, they did the writ, they earned it). Besides, surveys are just another rudimentary method for them to slow players down/waste our time.

Just curious, what do you think is a fair price for a stack of basic materials? I’ve found on both PC and XBox ingots, planks, leather, and cloth are all quite cheap. So much so that I have thousands of them (on console, just got to 160 on PC) but don’t find it worth it to sell them because the price is so low. And I’m definitely not super duper rich, the most I’ve had in the bank at one time was probably 1.5 million (that’s long gone, dang Proudspire Manner). Heck I regular give guildies stacks of mats for free if they need it.
Alchemy mats, yeah, those can be pricey because they’re used in consumables and harder to farm for specific reagents.

PS4 NA here.

You're right, blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking materials tend to be cheap, and there's usually many sellers. I never buy those things though, I have plenty just from deconstructing gear, and like I've stated before, I quite enjoy going on mat gathering runs, and I haaaave to stop and harvest whatever nodes I stop by lol. If I dont... it makes my eye twitch.

Alchemy, furnishing, and provisioning items. I'm a master cook and alchemist, and that makes up the majority of what I sell in the guild store. I often give guildies psijic ambrosia, and also sell many, so when it comes time to get more perfect roe........ I can spend hours fishing without getting one, and they usually sell for 8K+ each. Mundane runes have been the bane of my existence. I forget the name of it, but there's a woodworking equivalent for furnishing plans. RNG is a [enter creative insult], you can't get these items from crafting writ rewards, and sellers will price gouge because they know how popular they are in the housing community.

There are also so many "players" selling psijic ambrosia for less than 2000K each.... and biiiiig stacks of psijic ambrosia. Do they expect us to believe they are running a non-profit? No, its selling at a deficit honestly. Do they just love fishing so much that they spend all day every day doing nothing else, and want to gift their RNG prowess? That to me screams bots.

Ah, okay, what I pictured as basic materials was too limited.

And ugh, I agree that furnishing mats are a major pain point. If feel like I can passively farm for a month, picking every dang wood node I find (probably why I have 10K ruby ash lol) and all my heartwood is gone after I craft like 3 things. Maddening. Same with mundane runes.

I wasn’t aware of the issues with perfect roe/psijic ambrosia. I rarely make it, so I don’t know anything about its market. Makes sense there would be botting, farming for it is even more tedious than farming other nodes Not that I’m condoning bots, I’m not, it just seems like if anything would be bottled, it would be casting a line over and over (and over) again then filleting stacks upon stacks of fish.

(but ugh, that brings to mind how many stacks of white fish I vendored years ago because I had no idea. We’re talking fish from at least one whole faction’s fishing achievements 😞 )

Zulera301 · October 2020

it'd be nice if we could sell crafting surveys the same way we sell treasure maps. That would solve the problem for the lazy people that don't want to farm the mats themselves but still want a bit of the gold cut.

idk · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

So many players ignore crafting because they think its too complicated or monotonous, and not rewarding enough for the effort. Traits that take a month to research? Really? Crafting can use several QOL improvements.

Researching traits is not complicated nor does it require enough of our time to be considered monotonous. Start the research and then do whatever we want until it is done. Further, I get free research scrolls from the free crates Zos gives us for setting a PC to stream twich. We can also purchase more research scrolls via the master writs, iirc, and the crown store.

Exactly. How is that a rewarding experience? You set a timer, and wait.
You then do non-crafting-activities while you wait. And those scrolls wouldn't be necessary if there wasn't such a ridiculous timer to begin with. I created my guild to help new players, and the most common complaint about crafting is research.

Your suggestion is in-game purchases or to engage in out-of-game activities to alleviate the frustrations of the existing crafting system in-game? I rest my case.

I am almost a master crafter. Just a handful of traits left. I could've been done by now (I take breaks, and occasionally forget about long-wait research), but I definitely don't slack off on research or crafting writs. Its been almost a year since I started playing, and I still don't know all the traits.... that is the problem. What a cheap, meaningless way to keep players "engaged."

Don't get me wrong, I like crafting, its why I put up with it. Outfit system? Love it. But I'm not blind to the major flaws.

How is pressing a button on a PC to do anything a rewarding experience? Seriously, that is what you are asking here and it can apply to anything and everything about playing a game.

You claimed that so many players ignore crafting because it was complicated and monotonous. I merely pointed out the fact that it is neither. It is rather simple and straightforward. We do not have to spend much actual time researching traits, which was your example. Click a button and go do what we want. What is so complicated about that?

But what is rewarding about finishing out crafting? First, the easy part to do, leveling it up, is we can upgrade any gear we get as drops for a lower cost than if we had not leveled up the crafting line. We can change traits on gear which reduces the time needed to do a monotonous and boring grind of the same content over and over. We will soon be able to craft any gear we have equipped. Let us not forget one of the most lucrative means to earn gold in-game is doing the quick writs each day. That is a monotonous grind but the benefit of the fast gold is very sweet.

That is very rewarding. If someone finds it too monotonous to click a button every once in a while to obtain those perks then that is a personal issue.

Its easy to make an argument when you cut quotes and simplify points so far down they lose context...

You just keep proving my point: if anyone is into crafting, ESO crafting isn't scratching that itch. Researching traits could be something like deconstructing ever so many pieces with a particular trait to learn it. That involves actual crafting. Instead, you do research by not spending time at the crafting station. How is that crafting???

Leveling crafting is a joke, I maxed out alchemy, provisioning, and enchanting in one sitting (and all three in the same day). How is that challenging/rewarding? Not even TESV:Skyrim allows you to level crafting that fast.

My point is.... its not a deep/involved system. Its TOO simple, yet still very complicated for a new player: several crafting stations, materials, levels, traits, styles......... Its busy work. And the crafted sets available do not compare to dungeon/overland/trial sets, making your time investment not that worth it. Further, its like that on purpose, because ESO prioritizes the PvE grind over crafters.

Furnishing crafting, however, has a more reliable market imo. But even then, it has its own set of pain points, and several threads about them already. Mundane runes? Pain to obtain, or expensive, and are used up on crafting just a few furnishings. Yet players are expected to buy 700 slot homes, and to be honest, thats not even enough slots!

To make things worse, bots hold the majority of the market (regarding crafting mats). I make it a point to not by mats from guild traders, unless its one of my guilds' stores. Perfect roe? Enjoy spending several days/weeks, or gold, for just ONE.

As an MMO, I don't deny that things must take a liiiiiittle longer to keep players engaged, but ESO has stepped over that line and just outright disrespects players time.

Extra convenient how you left out the fact that it will soon be a year and I am still not a master crafter. I have taken 2 around-1-month-long breaks since I started playing, and will occasionally forget to start research for a week. However, had I done things perfectly, it still would have been almost a year.

If there are 7 gear slots per 3 gear weights, that makes a total of 21 traits that will take 30 days to research for the average player. That does not account for the fact you can research 3 at a time, but it also doesn't account for jewelry traits that will need researched (and rarer to obtain), or how the second to last trait would still take 2 weeks, the one prior one week? Something like that. And in game purchases is not a solution, its part of the problem.

The crafting system was not designed to be intuitive or rewarding, it was designed to be a lucrative time suck.

Again, I play ESO just about every day, and I still love it despite its flaws, but lets not pretend its perfect or that it doesn't need improvements here or there.

Your comment I replied to was immediately above my reply so it would have been hard to hide the rest of your comments.

I should have left in the part where you were dismissive at the various means Zos has added to the game to speed these things up since that would have really put this conversation into perspective.

The actual time required to be actually involved with leveling crafting in ESO is not very significant. It is only that the research takes a while, which as has several means to shorten it including the occasional free item from the daily login. Regardless, every MMORPG I have ever played has required some sort of investment into crafting to get the most out of it. After all, many of us have done this successfully and repeated it on alts many times. It is not a big deal to most of us.

ichsuisme · October 2020

I’d be happy if once a year, during an event I could trade in surveys and get the appropriate amount of mats in return.

This wouldn’t help outside of the week-long event, but still, that event would instantly be my favorite and I think it’d be enough for me. I would stop complaining.

SilverBride · October 2020

I wonder how many characters players are doing writs on for that many surveys to accumulate.

barney2525 · October 2020

Recremen wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Perhaps you or the theoretical other who actually does these surveys should value your time more?

I value my time enough to spend it doing what I find enjoyable. And I find doing surveys enjoyable.

Same.

Put in the time ... get the rewards.

That's a lot simpler than three paragraphs on how to change the game to get around the current mechanic.

The current mechanic is bad, though, being in the club of 3 people that somehow enjoy it doesn't change the fact that it's a bad reward design that doesn't do anything for the vast majority of crafters. Being resistant to change just because you're fine with the status quo isn't a noble position, it's just mindless stagnation. Also, we already put in the time. That's how quests work, as already stated.

Can't agree with the " doesn't do anything for the vast majority of crafters ". Top level mats = money.

Running around the map, apparently, is an integral part of the ESO game. Just look at the Trader system for verification. It's part of their philosophy. So don't expect them to automate anything.

And just curious, since the mats correspond to the level of the character farming them, what level is said assistant supposed to be ? And why would an assistant have CPs, when they won't even show up to do business in Cyradil ?

IMHO

Cireous · October 2020

I just want to sell mine to all the weirdos who want to do them

But, I am also desperate for functionality in my homes, so I would enjoy some type of interactive measure to get rid of the dull time wasters by traveling to my house to do so (i.e. through a fun interaction with a new houseguest or something).

spartaxoxo · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't really consider going to a spot and pressing x a couple of times playing the game. It's busy work. It's designed to be a tedious chore so less people do it.

Every single thing you do in a game involves pressing something. Gathering surveys is playing the game as much as anything else is. It's productive and some players find it enjoyable.

Yes. But those involve pressing something in a correct time or specific way, not unlike real life puzzles or sports. Surveys do not. They are not actual gameplay which is why they could easily be replaced by a menu.

spartaxoxo · October 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

I will just put this out there

I would pay a decent amount of crowns for an Assistant who could be sent to collect all my Crafting Surveys (Alchemy, Enchanting, Woodworking etc). Let us buy an assistant who can be sent out once a week or once a month to collect all our gathered Crafting Surveys and bring back the materials a day or so later.

So much time is taken up by collecting the surveys, it is just not an enjoyable use of time (for some). While some would prefer spending their time doing Trials, House Decorations, PvP, what have you, the surveys end up piling up. I don't want to spend hours upon hours running around different maps to collect the crafting mats. I have already completed 90% of the maps in the game.. Let me spend the time how I like, while I can still get the crafting mats which I have earned from doing Writs, and which I need the mats from to do crafting on gear for my adventures.

Pretty please?

Someone posted a month or so back that it would be nice to be able to assign your surveys to your hirelings instead of having them give you random stuff, and I think that would be a great idea. It would be an option available to anyone with the skill points to invest in hirelings and it would help slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by a lot.

Sometimes I don't mind doing my surveys, but other times, I look in my inventory and see 40-50 of them and I just want to log off.

What would happen if you slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by actually doing fewer writ dailies, @BXR_Lonestar?

That way, you're not looking at 40-50 at a time ...

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

Surveys don't have any actual gameplay. The vast majority of time doing multiple surveys is actually just loading screens. Seems like a perfect task for automation to me.

So, there's no gameplay between the zone's wayshrine and the survey site itself?

For me, it's a chance to collect a few more mats, continuing to level skills, pick up mages guild skill books, and start or finish a quest.

You think it's a "tedious chore" ... I think it's an opportunity.

There is gameplay near the surveys, but the surveys themselves are not actual gameplay. They are designed to be tedious chores so that a lot of people will hate doing them, limiting the number of surveys that get accomplished. What you're describing isn't even enjoying the survey itself but the stuff nearby. Which you could do without a survey as they are unrelated.

Muttsmutt · October 2020

when i stopped playing 2 years ago it was because of this.
i said i had enough while clearing out 100+ surveys.

i agree with this suggestion, and the ones with stacking in-world survey amounts so there is no necessity to run back and forth.

SilverBride · October 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

What you're describing isn't even enjoying the survey itself but the stuff nearby. Which you could do without a survey as they are unrelated.

You can't tell someone else what they enjoy. I know that I actually enjoy traveling to the survey site and gathering the mats they provide. It's rewarding to accomplish that.

tmbrinks · October 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

I will just put this out there

I would pay a decent amount of crowns for an Assistant who could be sent to collect all my Crafting Surveys (Alchemy, Enchanting, Woodworking etc). Let us buy an assistant who can be sent out once a week or once a month to collect all our gathered Crafting Surveys and bring back the materials a day or so later.

So much time is taken up by collecting the surveys, it is just not an enjoyable use of time (for some). While some would prefer spending their time doing Trials, House Decorations, PvP, what have you, the surveys end up piling up. I don't want to spend hours upon hours running around different maps to collect the crafting mats. I have already completed 90% of the maps in the game.. Let me spend the time how I like, while I can still get the crafting mats which I have earned from doing Writs, and which I need the mats from to do crafting on gear for my adventures.

Pretty please?

Someone posted a month or so back that it would be nice to be able to assign your surveys to your hirelings instead of having them give you random stuff, and I think that would be a great idea. It would be an option available to anyone with the skill points to invest in hirelings and it would help slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by a lot.

Sometimes I don't mind doing my surveys, but other times, I look in my inventory and see 40-50 of them and I just want to log off.

What would happen if you slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by actually doing fewer writ dailies, @BXR_Lonestar?

That way, you're not looking at 40-50 at a time ...

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

Surveys don't have any actual gameplay. The vast majority of time doing multiple surveys is actually just loading screens. Seems like a perfect task for automation to me.

So, there's no gameplay between the zone's wayshrine and the survey site itself?

For me, it's a chance to collect a few more mats, continuing to level skills, pick up mages guild skill books, and start or finish a quest.

You think it's a "tedious chore" ... I think it's an opportunity.

There is gameplay near the surveys, but the surveys themselves are not actual gameplay. They are designed to be tedious chores so that a lot of people will hate doing them, limiting the number of surveys that get accomplished. What you're describing isn't even enjoying the survey itself but the stuff nearby. Which you could do without a survey as they are unrelated.

So, the people who farm materials to make their gold in the game aren't participating in "actual gameplay"? Because surveys are certainly a huge part of somebody who does writs and material collection and the way they make gold in this game.

Just because it's not your preferred style doesn't mean the game has to adapt to you.

doomette · October 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

I will just put this out there

I would pay a decent amount of crowns for an Assistant who could be sent to collect all my Crafting Surveys (Alchemy, Enchanting, Woodworking etc). Let us buy an assistant who can be sent out once a week or once a month to collect all our gathered Crafting Surveys and bring back the materials a day or so later.

So much time is taken up by collecting the surveys, it is just not an enjoyable use of time (for some). While some would prefer spending their time doing Trials, House Decorations, PvP, what have you, the surveys end up piling up. I don't want to spend hours upon hours running around different maps to collect the crafting mats. I have already completed 90% of the maps in the game.. Let me spend the time how I like, while I can still get the crafting mats which I have earned from doing Writs, and which I need the mats from to do crafting on gear for my adventures.

Pretty please?

Someone posted a month or so back that it would be nice to be able to assign your surveys to your hirelings instead of having them give you random stuff, and I think that would be a great idea. It would be an option available to anyone with the skill points to invest in hirelings and it would help slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by a lot.

Sometimes I don't mind doing my surveys, but other times, I look in my inventory and see 40-50 of them and I just want to log off.

What would happen if you slow the rate at which you accumulate surveys by actually doing fewer writ dailies, @BXR_Lonestar?

That way, you're not looking at 40-50 at a time ...

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

Surveys don't have any actual gameplay. The vast majority of time doing multiple surveys is actually just loading screens. Seems like a perfect task for automation to me.

So, there's no gameplay between the zone's wayshrine and the survey site itself?

For me, it's a chance to collect a few more mats, continuing to level skills, pick up mages guild skill books, and start or finish a quest.

You think it's a "tedious chore" ... I think it's an opportunity.

There is gameplay near the surveys, but the surveys themselves are not actual gameplay. They are designed to be tedious chores so that a lot of people will hate doing them, limiting the number of surveys that get accomplished. What you're describing isn't even enjoying the survey itself but the stuff nearby. Which you could do without a survey as they are unrelated.

So, the people who farm materials to make their gold in the game aren't participating in "actual gameplay"? Because surveys are certainly a huge part of somebody who does writs and material collection and the way they make gold in this game.

Just because it's not your preferred style doesn't mean the game has to adapt to you.

I’d consider surveys and farming more administrative tasks (e.g. chores) that support the things I enjoy doing more (housing and PVE/PVP), but you’re right. This game supports all sorts of gameplay focuses, and there’s nothing wrong with farming/economics being a focus rather than a means to an end. No gameplay style is better or worse than the other (well, besides scammers and such, obvs), it’s silly to think one way of playing is superior to the other.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

I know this may seem counterproductive, given the current conversation, but what about adding some surveys?

Furnishing and fishing surveys. Woodworking survey would lead to heartwood, and enchanting would lead to mundane. Provisioning would lead to special fishing spots that drop "hearty fish" or something else uniquely named that would have much better chances at giving you perfect roe.

FireBreathingNord · October 2020

This will be a non-issue once the new update goes live. Ample bank space will mean less worrying about surveys taking up inventory space. When you've accumulated staggering about of a particular survey you can do them all in one go. This is what I tend to do currently, only complaint/issue I see is the lack of respawning nodes. I don't know if it is intended, but I find myself logging out and or running across half the map in order to get nodes to respawn. This wasn't an issue in prior updates - only had to ride a short distance away.... bug?

Veinblood1965 · October 2020

Personally I think it should be even easier, just log in and each day there is an extra 50k gold on your crafting toon and 12 random writs. Take it a step farther and those writs are automatically just completed for you. And while we are at it how about all you do is log in and each toon is max CP with max gear and all the bells and whistles.

Joking, I thought about this before but it is an option for people to do them, if you chose to do all crafting surveys that is a choice. You can chose to not do them as well. I too get burnt out from them and then just take a break for a while, after you reach a certain amount of gold you can't spend it all anyway.