Crafting Surveys -Quality of Life

Anony_Mouse · October 2020

Destai wrote: »

No, there's enough things in the crown store. We don't need another $40 assistant to address poor design decisions. It's better if they treat surveys like leads and give them their own pane in the Journal. It removes them from the inventory and you could easily track them.

At the very least, an NPC that takes a cut in each zone would be a reasonable compromise. So, you have a survey for Grahtwood, you go the Surveyor NPC in that zone and cash in. They take a cut of the materials/gold and you move on with your life. They could also sell surveys for 1000 gold or something reasonable.

This would also be a good solution! I like this one a LOT!

Anony_Mouse · October 2020

volkeswagon wrote: »

I don't know why people want things just handed to them without putting in the work. It seems as if real life ideals are sneaking into the game. I find Crafting writs in general to be monotonous and boring but I don't expect them to just be given to me without working for them like some addons provide. If you want the rewards you gotta put in the work. Good honest work is good for the soul.

Say you have a Grand Master Crafter, maybe even 2 or 4 or more. Say you have played that character for 2-6 years and collected 100s of surveys the manual way. Wouldn't you say they have put in the time?

Sometimes what we enjoy in the game shift, but crafting and upgrading gear will always be needed due to the shifting nature of this game. So why should I keep spending my time running around doing Surveys when I could be doing something I enjoy? You can literally waste hours collecting the mats. For some, that is not a good use of time. Not everyone has unlimited time to spend in the game and perhaps they would rather do something the find fun than collect surveys.

Those who enjoy collecting the surveys, great, carry on. But at this stage of the game, I see no reason for it to be the only way to collect the rewards of the surveys you have earned.

tmbrinks · October 2020

Recremen wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Perhaps you or the theoretical other who actually does these surveys should value your time more?

I value my time enough to spend it doing what I find enjoyable. And I find doing surveys enjoyable.

Same.

Put in the time ... get the rewards.

That's a lot simpler than three paragraphs on how to change the game to get around the current mechanic.

The current mechanic is bad, though, being in the club of 3 people that somehow enjoy it doesn't change the fact that it's a bad reward design that doesn't do anything for the vast majority of crafters. Being resistant to change just because you're fine with the status quo isn't a noble position, it's just mindless stagnation. Also, we already put in the time. That's how quests work, as already stated.

You're allowed to speak for the "vast majority of crafters"

Yet when somebody else says something similar, you demean their opinion...

hmmm...

If you collect your surveys immediately, you'll NEVER get a repeat, since it's impossible. The reward work in a way, that when you turn in the items, somebody gives you a "hint" about a nice cache of resources somewhere.

The only issue is people like us who do writs on dozens of characters (because they are so very profitable), and allow them to stack up, and then (some of us) complain about them stacking up.

If you don't to do surveys, don't do them, it's fine, writs are still more than profitable if you buy materials (probably still the best thing for profit in a given time frame). They're just more profitable if you make the choice to collect your surveys.

It's up to you.

As I said in my original post. Why even make the suggested change if you want to make survey collection automatic? Just change the drops from the writs themselves (which ZoS has already done previously to make them even better than before)

It's not intended to be demeaning, and I offered plenty of rationale for it. To expound on it further, what if we kept extending the "do more work to get the full reward"? If it's not bad in principle the first time, then where exactly is the limit? What if instead of a survey map, you got a map let led you to an NPC that you had to do some more work for so that they would point you to the real survey location? That sounds a bit ridiculous, right? But it's just the same reward principle you're defending extended out a single step further. My argument is that it's bad at any level of extension. You already did the work for the quest, and should not need to do an additional fetch quest to get the full reward. At that point, you should just design a second quest with the rewards you were trying to attach to the first one.

This thing where you're couching it as a choice to go do that second quest to get the full reward is the mindless stagnation I was talking about. Would you say the same for any other quest reward if you had to do Second Work to get it? What if the gold reward at the end of a quest had a fetch component? What about the XP? What about the parting dialogue from the NPCs? That's all immediately recognizable as ridiculous, but you're willing to not only accept the status quo on another quest reward with that same controversial mechanic, but actively go to bat for it as if the people who are suggesting it be changed to achieve parity with other quest rewards are wrong.

And so what if doing writs is currently (allegedly) the best way to make gold right now? The surveys are still part of the reward offering for the quest. I'm much more willing to believe that it was a well-intended feature that simply doesn't work at the mass-production scale we 18+character writ runners have going, than that they intentionally designed a huge part of the quest rewards to be so tedious that the vast majority of crafters don't even engage with it.

Why even make the suggested change if you want to make survey collection automatic? Just change the drops from the writs themselves (which ZoS has already done previously to make them even better than before)

Quoting this again here for emphasis, but I didn't even originally suggest that. I don't think it's good design or player-friendly to have some cash way to get around a mechanic that isn't good design in the first place. While that is one of those "convenience" things that they've monetized in the past, it doesn't sit right with my in principle. My suggestion (just one among many viable options for change) was simply to let you collect all nodes from a particular survey type at once. So if you have a stack of 76 [Alchemist Survey: Coldharbour II], for example, then when you go to the site each flower you pick would be x76 the value it would normally give, and consume the full stack of surveys.

I am curious why you'd be against any s it just the exclusiveness of the club, or change, though, especially a change from which you could also benefit.

Thank you for pointing out with Alchemy. Since that's the one that's the major sticking point for me... Because you can already reset the node to get specific items from it. So I have a stack of 76 alchemy surveys, I just reset it until I get one with 5 or more corn flower nodes and get a major profit. Even more if I get "lucky" and my plentiful harvest passive hits as well. That doesn't sit well with me.

Yes, you can still game the node and run back and reset over and over, but you're not going to do that 76 times to achieve the same result.

Sure, ZoS could program it so that it does the plentiful harvest roll (and the value of the node, either 4 or 6 for alchemy, and 18 or 20 for the craft ones) on each and every chance, but it doesn't fix the "forcing" of alchemy nodes to a specific type by resetting it over and over.

Recremen · October 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Perhaps you or the theoretical other who actually does these surveys should value your time more?

I value my time enough to spend it doing what I find enjoyable. And I find doing surveys enjoyable.

Same.

Put in the time ... get the rewards.

That's a lot simpler than three paragraphs on how to change the game to get around the current mechanic.

The current mechanic is bad, though, being in the club of 3 people that somehow enjoy it doesn't change the fact that it's a bad reward design that doesn't do anything for the vast majority of crafters. Being resistant to change just because you're fine with the status quo isn't a noble position, it's just mindless stagnation. Also, we already put in the time. That's how quests work, as already stated.

You're allowed to speak for the "vast majority of crafters"

Yet when somebody else says something similar, you demean their opinion...

hmmm...

If you collect your surveys immediately, you'll NEVER get a repeat, since it's impossible. The reward work in a way, that when you turn in the items, somebody gives you a "hint" about a nice cache of resources somewhere.

The only issue is people like us who do writs on dozens of characters (because they are so very profitable), and allow them to stack up, and then (some of us) complain about them stacking up.

If you don't to do surveys, don't do them, it's fine, writs are still more than profitable if you buy materials (probably still the best thing for profit in a given time frame). They're just more profitable if you make the choice to collect your surveys.

It's up to you.

As I said in my original post. Why even make the suggested change if you want to make survey collection automatic? Just change the drops from the writs themselves (which ZoS has already done previously to make them even better than before)

It's not intended to be demeaning, and I offered plenty of rationale for it. To expound on it further, what if we kept extending the "do more work to get the full reward"? If it's not bad in principle the first time, then where exactly is the limit? What if instead of a survey map, you got a map let led you to an NPC that you had to do some more work for so that they would point you to the real survey location? That sounds a bit ridiculous, right? But it's just the same reward principle you're defending extended out a single step further. My argument is that it's bad at any level of extension. You already did the work for the quest, and should not need to do an additional fetch quest to get the full reward. At that point, you should just design a second quest with the rewards you were trying to attach to the first one.

This thing where you're couching it as a choice to go do that second quest to get the full reward is the mindless stagnation I was talking about. Would you say the same for any other quest reward if you had to do Second Work to get it? What if the gold reward at the end of a quest had a fetch component? What about the XP? What about the parting dialogue from the NPCs? That's all immediately recognizable as ridiculous, but you're willing to not only accept the status quo on another quest reward with that same controversial mechanic, but actively go to bat for it as if the people who are suggesting it be changed to achieve parity with other quest rewards are wrong.

And so what if doing writs is currently (allegedly) the best way to make gold right now? The surveys are still part of the reward offering for the quest. I'm much more willing to believe that it was a well-intended feature that simply doesn't work at the mass-production scale we 18+character writ runners have going, than that they intentionally designed a huge part of the quest rewards to be so tedious that the vast majority of crafters don't even engage with it.

Why even make the suggested change if you want to make survey collection automatic? Just change the drops from the writs themselves (which ZoS has already done previously to make them even better than before)

Quoting this again here for emphasis, but I didn't even originally suggest that. I don't think it's good design or player-friendly to have some cash way to get around a mechanic that isn't good design in the first place. While that is one of those "convenience" things that they've monetized in the past, it doesn't sit right with my in principle. My suggestion (just one among many viable options for change) was simply to let you collect all nodes from a particular survey type at once. So if you have a stack of 76 [Alchemist Survey: Coldharbour II], for example, then when you go to the site each flower you pick would be x76 the value it would normally give, and consume the full stack of surveys.

I am curious why you'd be against any s it just the exclusiveness of the club, or change, though, especially a change from which you could also benefit.

Thank you for pointing out with Alchemy. Since that's the one that's the major sticking point for me... Because you can already reset the node to get specific items from it. So I have a stack of 76 alchemy surveys, I just reset it until I get one with 5 or more corn flower nodes and get a major profit. Even more if I get "lucky" and my plentiful harvest passive hits as well. That doesn't sit well with me.

Yes, you can still game the node and run back and reset over and over, but you're not going to do that 76 times to achieve the same result.

Sure, ZoS could program it so that it does the plentiful harvest roll (and the value of the node, either 4 or 6 for alchemy, and 18 or 20 for the craft ones) on each and every chance, but it doesn't fix the "forcing" of alchemy nodes to a specific type by resetting it over and over.

I really couldn't possibly care if someone sinks the corn flower market, we don't have a right to a specific selling price. That said, I did always think that resetting the flowers was kind of exploity. I'd rather they change all of those nodes to a generic type like "flower patch" and then you get a random assortment every time from every node. Then it would fix your concern while also working fine with my proposed implementation. And of course they'd do a roll on plentiful harvest at a per-node-per-survey basis, that's easy math.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

I would be more willing to do surveys if I got surveys for the zone I'm currently in when turning in writs.

Otherwise, please, give me a house guest that will do them for me, for a fee. I would gladly pay like 500G to send them to collect the materials. I would also happily wait 1 real-time hour before I can claim the materials.

Cireous · October 2020

The entire function of every one of my storage chests is to collect crafting surveys and treasure maps. ZOS, please send help.

SilverBride · October 2020

Cireous wrote: »

The entire function of every one of my storage chests is to collect crafting surveys and treasure maps. ZOS, please send help.

Why don't you do a zone a day? Or half a zone? Or even a handful? Especially the treasure maps because you can get leads from them.

BleedMe_AnOcean · October 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

I do a lot of writs. They are far and away the best way to make gold in this game. This would make them even more overpowered.

This was also my first thought, but then...

If someone who had that assistant could do more writs (over the daily limit) and therefore surveys each day, then I'd definitely agree that writs & surveys would be insanely OP. But this suggestion doesn't do that. It would just make the process of gathering the survey mats simpler, which really doesn't offer any additional advantage other than saving time.

I hope this makes sense lol.

I kinda dig it. I have a whole chest filled with surveys that I just can't find the time to do. I take the appropriate ones with me when I go into a zone, but I feel like I never get them all done. 😂

Raideen · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

My main problem with surveys is that I let them pile up in the bank and end up with stacks of 20+ to do. Basically I'm lazy.

That isn't lazy. That is just not wanting to waste game time on tedium.

Not everyone finds them tedious.

And not everyone finds them fun, as evidence of this thread and the support for the OP's idea. In fact, the OP's idea does two things. It allows you to still collect and have fun, and it would allow for us to send our paid for, probably $50.00 crown store NPC out on a trip to get the mats.

I completely support the OP's idea. Anything that allows me to play and not do the same old daily, boring grind stuff is worth it.

BleedMe_AnOcean · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

Not everyone finds them tedious.

Then those people wouldn't need to buy the assistant.

tmbrinks · October 2020

BleedMe_AnOcean wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I do a lot of writs. They are far and away the best way to make gold in this game. This would make them even more overpowered.

This was also my first thought, but then...

If someone who had that assistant could do more writs (over the daily limit) and therefore surveys each day, then I'd definitely agree that writs & surveys would be insanely OP. But this suggestion doesn't do that. It would just make the process of gathering the survey mats simpler, which really doesn't offer any additional advantage other than saving time.

I hope this makes sense lol.

I kinda dig it. I have a whole chest filled with surveys that I just can't find the time to do. I take the appropriate ones with me when I go into a zone, but I feel like I never get them all done. 😂

Again I state. Why then don't you just change the drops of the rewards from doing writs so that you no longer even get surveys... instead of introducing another "pay for convenience" option? When the sentiment on these forums in general has been very negative towards those other "pay for convenience" options... going as far to write ZoS as Zo$ (insinuating that they're just greedy and out for profits).

I'm shocked that people are seriously giving more suggestions at another way that ZoS can monetize something else in the game, when it's clear the forum's opinion on monetization is so very negative.

Raideen · October 2020

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

My main problem with surveys is that I let them pile up in the bank and end up with stacks of 20+ to do. Basically I'm lazy.

That isn't lazy. That is just not wanting to waste game time on tedium.

Agreed. These systems are designed to keep players in the game by doing mundane, but "necessary" chores. This does a number of things. For one it slows down the consumption of "fun" content (dungeons, PVP, decorating homes, etc) by ensuring the first 2 hours of your day is taken up by running around the world doing dailies. Any given person only has so much play time, and the chores ensure we do not consume the "good/fun" stuff too fast. Secondly, it helps to inflate the player base by keeping people online longer than they might normally be. Share holders like this kind of stuff, but this does little for the average player.

I find no enjoyment at all in crafting surveys or treasure maps. If they stacked (and there is ZERO technical reason they can't stack, its all designed to inflate bag space), then I might not be bothered so much but they just get in the way of things I'd rather be doing.

SilverBride · October 2020

I just wonder when all these "QoL" changes will end up killing the game. Why even play if you have addons or assistants to play for you? I'd think that would create tedium faster than anything.

BleedMe_AnOcean · October 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

Again I state. Why then don't you just change the drops of the rewards from doing writs so that you no longer even get surveys... instead of introducing another "pay for convenience" option? When the sentiment on these forums in general has been very negative towards those other "pay for convenience" options... going as far to write ZoS as Zo$ (insinuating that they're just greedy and out for profits).

I'm shocked that people are seriously giving more suggestions at another way that ZoS can monetize something else in the game, when it's clear the forum's opinion on monetization is so very negative.

1 - Because there are people who do enjoy doing them. (Those people are crazy. 😂😂😂 )

2 - Most of the negativity surroinding monetization I see has to do with Crown Crates rather than the cash shop itself. If I can choose to pay for convenience, that's fine, but when the only way to get an item is to spend hundreds of dollars appeasing the RNG gods, well...

The beauty of optional conveniences one can buy with real money is that they're optional. Cash shops aren't going anywhere, so why not discuss things that we'd like to see in them? It's like ads on Facebook. They're gonna be there no matter what we do, so we might as well make them relevant where possible.

But I do also see your point.

volkeswagon · October 2020

I would be okay with being able to cash in a survey for half the materials that you would get by doing them. But realistically I don't see Zos changing surveys in anyway. Guaranteed they read these posts and say "man why are people lazy. If you hate them that much then Don't do them, and if you want the reward you gotta work to get it"

DaveMoeDee · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

I just wonder when all these "QoL" changes will end up killing the game. Why even play if you have addons or assistants to play for you? I'd think that would create tedium faster than anything.

Depends on the percentage of players that have so much time to spend in-game that they run out of things to do without tedious busywork. Why play? Because there are lots of interesting things to do in-game, but the resources obviously help.

I imagine you must have an absurd amount of time to burn on gaming, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I know a lot of really active players that just don't bother any more with surveys, even when they do crafting writs. You say "why even play if you have addons," but a better question is why play if it isn't enjoyable.

SilverBride · October 2020

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I just wonder when all these "QoL" changes will end up killing the game. Why even play if you have addons or assistants to play for you? I'd think that would create tedium faster than anything.

Depends on the percentage of players that have so much time to spend in-game that they run out of things to do without tedious busywork. Why play? Because there are lots of interesting things to do in-game, but the resources obviously help.

I imagine you must have an absurd amount of time to burn on gaming, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I know a lot of really active players that just don't bother any more with surveys, even when they do crafting writs. You say "why even play if you have addons," but a better question is why play if it isn't enjoyable.

What I said was "Why even play if you have addons or assistants to play for you". The more automated every activity gets, the quicker the tedium sets in. Having things to do keeps it engaging. At least for me.

Anony_Mouse · October 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

BleedMe_AnOcean wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I do a lot of writs. They are far and away the best way to make gold in this game. This would make them even more overpowered.

This was also my first thought, but then...

If someone who had that assistant could do more writs (over the daily limit) and therefore surveys each day, then I'd definitely agree that writs & surveys would be insanely OP. But this suggestion doesn't do that. It would just make the process of gathering the survey mats simpler, which really doesn't offer any additional advantage other than saving time.

I hope this makes sense lol.

I kinda dig it. I have a whole chest filled with surveys that I just can't find the time to do. I take the appropriate ones with me when I go into a zone, but I feel like I never get them all done. 😂

Again I state. Why then don't you just change the drops of the rewards from doing writs so that you no longer even get surveys... instead of introducing another "pay for convenience" option? When the sentiment on these forums in general has been very negative towards those other "pay for convenience" options... going as far to write ZoS as Zo$ (insinuating that they're just greedy and out for profits).

I'm shocked that people are seriously giving more suggestions at another way that ZoS can monetize something else in the game, when it's clear the forum's opinion on monetization is so very negative.

wait so because "the forum's opinion is negative" on a certain subject, we all have to feel that way? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

tmbrinks · October 2020

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

BleedMe_AnOcean wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I do a lot of writs. They are far and away the best way to make gold in this game. This would make them even more overpowered.

This was also my first thought, but then...

If someone who had that assistant could do more writs (over the daily limit) and therefore surveys each day, then I'd definitely agree that writs & surveys would be insanely OP. But this suggestion doesn't do that. It would just make the process of gathering the survey mats simpler, which really doesn't offer any additional advantage other than saving time.

I hope this makes sense lol.

I kinda dig it. I have a whole chest filled with surveys that I just can't find the time to do. I take the appropriate ones with me when I go into a zone, but I feel like I never get them all done. 😂

Again I state. Why then don't you just change the drops of the rewards from doing writs so that you no longer even get surveys... instead of introducing another "pay for convenience" option? When the sentiment on these forums in general has been very negative towards those other "pay for convenience" options... going as far to write ZoS as Zo$ (insinuating that they're just greedy and out for profits).

I'm shocked that people are seriously giving more suggestions at another way that ZoS can monetize something else in the game, when it's clear the forum's opinion on monetization is so very negative.

wait so because "the forum's opinion is negative" on a certain subject, we all have to feel that way? [snip]

Just saying I'm surprised... because every time that ZoS introduces some new "pay for convenience" or "pay to not play" item in the crown store, the forums (in general) freak out, screaming "P2W!!!" "Zo$!!!" etc...

There's always the dissenters (I've been one of them for several options). Just surprised the general consensus here seems to run counter to the general consensus about these things on the forums.

Wasn't trying to say what you're suggesting, sorry if you misconstrued it. [snip]

[edited to remove quoted content]

themaddaedra · October 2020

Oh boi... I made a similar thread (i think last year) and was shocked by the reaction of people who apparently love doing their surveys and wouldn't like it to change. It seems they are still around, but with a lesser number luckily.

The system with crafting surveys is ancient. It belongs to a time where there weren't sixteen gazillion daily quests to do in game. Where there wasn't dragons to kill, or harrowstorms to halt, or this many item sets to farm... etc. etc. In short, the system belongs to a time where people had more time to spend on nonsense activities.

Only improvement zos made to surveys was making them resettable after an unknown amount of back and forth, so people -thank god- didn't have to relog or teleport everytime to reset a specific survey. Which was flawed in the first hand, as it's really only slightly better than the previous pain.

While i don't think removing surveys and making them a straight reward or having an assistant to do them is a good idea (i believe it would indeed affect the market largely), i do think that there has to be an improvement to collecting them.

I would say letting players to collect all their stacked surveys of the same type at once is a good idea. So if you are in favor of travelling zones for surveys (which i don't understand at all, nobody needs a survey to visit zones, but still...) you can do them on a daily basis and not stack anything, meaning you can still spend the same amount of time doing surveys as before (for whatever reason). While a good number of others, including me myself, could spend the same time doing their writs as before but save themselves from the annoying run back run forth reset mechanic. Seriously, it's tedious, annoying and definitely nowhere near being a modern system.

rumple9 · October 2020

I had 100s of surveys worth many thousands of gold. Deleted them all because I simply don't have time to do them they are so time consuming.

The system seriously needs a re-think. So do hirelings and the need to play the log in/log out game (which probably causes a lot of the problems with server load)

The best solution for surveys wold be if you have a 4th point in hirelings, the hireling collects the survey for you and delivers 75% of the mats 7 days later (keeping 25% for himself). If someone like to do them manually, they get 100% of the mats

ilovemycats · October 2020

Going out and doing surveys can be grueling but it is so satisfying when you finally go out and do your surveys and have thousands of mats to refine. Wouldn't be as satisfying if you just got an assistant to do them. Also, yeah, it would break the economy and nothing is easy, if you want to make gold or get mats you should have to work for it.

Hallothiel · October 2020

Keep my surveys & even treasure maps, then spend an hour or so once a month getting them all done. Like doing them, as also get to do a bit of normal mat farming.

But understand people find them tedious.

Do not think an ££ assistant is ideal; stackable surveys increasing the node value is good though.

Perhaps adding furniture mats into the surveys would make them more desirable to do? I personally would love that, as would help my housing addiction.

Destai · October 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

BleedMe_AnOcean wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I do a lot of writs. They are far and away the best way to make gold in this game. This would make them even more overpowered.

This was also my first thought, but then...

If someone who had that assistant could do more writs (over the daily limit) and therefore surveys each day, then I'd definitely agree that writs & surveys would be insanely OP. But this suggestion doesn't do that. It would just make the process of gathering the survey mats simpler, which really doesn't offer any additional advantage other than saving time.

I hope this makes sense lol.

I kinda dig it. I have a whole chest filled with surveys that I just can't find the time to do. I take the appropriate ones with me when I go into a zone, but I feel like I never get them all done. 😂

Again I state. Why then don't you just change the drops of the rewards from doing writs so that you no longer even get surveys... instead of introducing another "pay for convenience" option? When the sentiment on these forums in general has been very negative towards those other "pay for convenience" options... going as far to write ZoS as Zo$ (insinuating that they're just greedy and out for profits).

I'm shocked that people are seriously giving more suggestions at another way that ZoS can monetize something else in the game, when it's clear the forum's opinion on monetization is so very negative.

Let's be clear - they are out for profit. They're a private company operating with shareholders. No value statement there, it's just objective fact.

I can't speak for everyone, but there's a reason my opinions on monetization are so negative - because it's pervasive and relentless. It feels like they're extracting every penny out of clients under the guise of "giving us choices".

1. Motifs are 5000 crowns. $40 for cosmetics? Some houses are teetering near $100. Does that seem reasonable to you? How easily can I earn these items in game? I'd happily go purchase every Motif right now if they were $10.
2. Limited time crown store offerings. The marketing tactic of FOMO is strong and persistent. Not only am I pestered with the crown store popup everyday at 8pm, but then I'm being nudged to buy something or never see it again. They could just leave things in the store, so that I can buy them at my leisure. But no, no interest in giving us an actual choice just constant pressure.
3. Crown crates. Indulge your gambling addiction! Hopefully one day these are made illegal so I can play a game and enjoy an immersive experience.
4. Spliced up content. Most MMO games release an expansion that's complete. All zones, dungeons, cosmetics, etc in one package. ESO splices it up. Again, constant pressure with sales, collectors edition in an extreme a la carte approach. I can live with this, but I don't purchase dungeon DLCs as a result of this tactic.

I have no problem with them monetizing their game to fund continual development and I'd feel more inclined to support them if they changed just a few things.
1. Reduce prices on cosmetics and give us a clear, non-RNG way to acquire them in game.
2. Retain all offerings in the crown store.
3. Remove crown store pop for subscribers.
4. Release a yearly expansion package for $50 that contains all the DLC and a special motif. Maybe a season pass or something.

The problem with the "pay for convenience" model is that doesn't engender good-will towards the company and dampens the enjoyment of this game. I would never play this game without a subscription, it's unbearable.

Given their handling of this game's aggressive monetization, age old bugs, and draconian community management, I don't see myself supporting any of their future games. I'll continue to buy zone DLCs and play with my friends, but beyond that, it's just too much.

SilverBride · October 2020

themaddaedra wrote: »

I would say letting players to collect all their stacked surveys of the same type at once is a good idea.

Are you saying that if you have 5 Rift Alchemy surveys that you should be able to collect them all at once instead of leaving and coming back 4 more times?

themaddaedra wrote: »

So if you are in favor of travelling zones for surveys (which i don't understand at all, nobody needs a survey to visit zones, but still...) you can do them on a daily basis and not stack anything, meaning you can still spend the same amount of time doing surveys as before (for whatever reason).

I travel zones for surveys because it's a good way to pick up wayshrines in zones I haven't explored yet. Of course I don't need a survey to visit a zone, but if I need to go there for the survey anyway why not accomplish both?

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

ilovemycats wrote: »

Going out and doing surveys can be grueling but it is so satisfying when you finally go out and do your surveys and have thousands of mats to refine. Wouldn't be as satisfying if you just got an assistant to do them. Also, yeah, it would break the economy and nothing is easy, if you want to make gold or get mats you should have to work for it.

The economy is already broke. You mean people would be forced to sell things at a reasonable rate instead of price gouging? You mean more players would have access to materials so that actual players will make a profit instead of mat bots? Yah, sign me up for that broke-ness.

Nothing can really be done about materials that heavily rely on RNG, i.e perfect roe, bots will always hold most of the market for that. However, if more players had easy access to basic materials, the economy would be BETTER for it, not suffer. A well balanced survey assistant would put those profits back in the hands of actual players who earn it (yes, they did the writ, they earned it). Besides, surveys are just another rudimentary method for them to slow players down/waste our time.

And this is coming from someone who enjoys collecting mats (its relaxing lol). I do also enjoy collecting surveys, but I don't enjoy having to stare at a load screen 90% of the time, hopping between zones. If surveys would drop according to the zone you are in when you turn in writs, I would be way more inclined to do them, and I would make it a habit to do them immediately after I've turned in my crafting writs.

Besides, I wouldn't solely rely on the assistant, I would mainly use it for the zones I don't feel like doing, and would still do the zones I enjoy myself.

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

SilverBride · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

idk · October 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Perhaps you or the theoretical other who actually does these surveys should value your time more?

I value my time enough to spend it doing what I find enjoyable. And I find doing surveys enjoyable.

Same.

Put in the time ... get the rewards.

That's a lot simpler than three paragraphs on how to change the game to get around the current mechanic.

The current mechanic is bad, though, being in the club of 3 people that somehow enjoy it doesn't change the fact that it's a bad reward design that doesn't do anything for the vast majority of crafters. Being resistant to change just because you're fine with the status quo isn't a noble position, it's just mindless stagnation. Also, we already put in the time. That's how quests work, as already stated.

You're allowed to speak for the "vast majority of crafters"

Yet when somebody else says something similar, you demean their opinion...

hmmm...

If you collect your surveys immediately, you'll NEVER get a repeat, since it's impossible. The reward work in a way, that when you turn in the items, somebody gives you a "hint" about a nice cache of resources somewhere.

The only issue is people like us who do writs on dozens of characters (because they are so very profitable), and allow them to stack up, and then (some of us) complain about them stacking up.

If you don't to do surveys, don't do them, it's fine, writs are still more than profitable if you buy materials (probably still the best thing for profit in a given time frame). They're just more profitable if you make the choice to collect your surveys.

It's up to you.

As I said in my original post. Why even make the suggested change if you want to make survey collection automatic? Just change the drops from the writs themselves (which ZoS has already done previously to make them even better than before)

I agree with tmbrinks on this. I certainly do not see this as a resistance to change when the suggestion is basically to make everything automatic and fill my bags.

The fact is, the surveys are good for all crafters as they provide a significant amount of resources such as gold upgrade matts. As such, it makes sense Zos is not going to just fill our bags with all of that.

Yes, I do writs on multiple characters and have for years. I do not like grinding but I like the profit and think there should be a barrier of some time and effort to reap that reward.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

If you don't want to use a survey assistant, or just enjoy collecting them yourself, the solution is simple.... don't use the assistant. No one is asking for a cheat code, and some of us are suggesting it have a drawback. Some people just don't want others to have nice things.

It's not that at all. For me it's more about not automating everything to the point that no one has to do anything to earn anything any more. Time and money sinks are not a bad thing. They keep people motivated to log on and accomplish things.

I'm the opposite: I think time and money sinks are lazy excuses to keep players engaged. Instead of genuine/rewarding re-play value, they are forced replay. I get what you are saying though and can agree, but I don't think having an assistant for surveys will undo that. Players will still need to do crafting writs, and if there is a real-time delay before you can claim the rewards, and/or a price to pay for the service, it would be a major QOL improvement without being better than anyone who prefers to do surveys themselves.

Automization isn't the devil, in fact its how you combat the real devil: purposely bad RNG, and tedious game processes. Take fishing for example.... they could have made something really special with this, but instead its just *speaks PS4* press X and wait to press X again. Then you have to one by one- AND I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT, PC PLAYERS *glares enviously in console* filet your fish for a disrespectfully low chance to get a perfect roe. Its like ESO made the system for bots.

So many players ignore crafting because they think its too complicated or monotonous, and not rewarding enough for the effort. Traits that take a month to research? Really? Crafting can use several QOL improvements.

SilverBride · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

So many players ignore crafting because they think its too complicated or monotonous, and not rewarding enough for the effort. Traits that take a month to research? Really? Crafting can use several QOL improvements.

This i agree with completely. I stopped crafting gear long ago because of these reasons, and because the gear was soon replaced by better gear from drops anyway. All I craft now is furnishings.

I'd love to see a furniture crafting station where you could access all your furnishing blueprints, etc., in one place, rather than having to visit all the individual stations. And you could only craft furnishings at that station.