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To many Proc sets. Needs a nerf
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Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »What they need to do is give us pvpers an option to not partake in the proccing game. Give us a monster set that does something like this:
1p: 400 critical resistance.
2p: No procc or item set can damage or heal you. You can also not gain any buffs from itemsets or any debuffs.
I don't like this at all. Proc sets should exist to open up playstyles, the problem with the way they're designed right now is they overload individual abilities so that you 6 negative effects where you could at most get 3 otherwise.
They also need to scale so they're only usable on builds that stack damage stats. They shouldn't enable you to stack burst on top of existing combos but they should enable you to create new burst combos, like undaunted infiltrator+sargent's mail (although the DW double proc looks like a bug tbh).
Maybe it's too much to ask for ZOS to make these balanced but I don't think they should fix sets with more sets.
I've been saying that for a while now, make procsets scale with stats, like skills do, and suddenly your triple proctards dots won't hit for any dmg.
It would make using 1 procset to enhance an ability playstyle more viable while still requiring the Stat investment.1 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭to me there should be a ramping incoming damage that would of set this sort of thing, if its 1v1 these proc sets are no issue, but when it gets up to how pvp is played at the mo, with 5-50 on one person then a ramping incoming damage would help,, that in, if 2 peeps on 1 person the incoming damage for that person from the 2 should be lowered, as more peeps attack one person the damage output on that person is lowered to a point if 50 on one the damge output of the 50 would euate to just over 1 persons attack, to ofset this change, a change in damage mitigation would also have to take effectMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0
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Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭Recapitated wrote: »What they need to do is give us pvpers an option to not partake in the proccing game. Give us a monster set that does something like this:
1p: 400 critical resistance.
2p: No procc or item set can damage or heal you. You can also not gain any buffs from itemsets or any debuffs.
I don't like this at all. Proc sets should exist to open up playstyles, the problem with the way they're designed right now is they overload individual abilities so that you 6 negative effects where you could at most get 3 otherwise.
They also need to scale so they're only usable on builds that stack damage stats. They shouldn't enable you to stack burst on top of existing combos but they should enable you to create new burst combos, like undaunted infiltrator+sargent's mail (although the DW double proc looks like a bug tbh).
Maybe it's too much to ask for ZOS to make these balanced but I don't think they should fix sets with more sets.
I've been saying that for a while now, make procsets scale with stats, like skills do, and suddenly your triple proctards dots won't hit for any dmg.
It would make using 1 procset to enhance an ability playstyle more viable while still requiring the Stat investment.
the damage from proc sets do scale with your stats, just not as much as it would be good to. Right now if you have for example 3k spd your proc set does 6k dmg, and if you have 2k spd your proc set does 5.5k dmg. It should be that 3k spd deals 6k dmg, and 2k spd deals 3k dmg, or things like these, better scaling in general.
another thing i don't understand is how exactly these scale. On my magnecro tank the Iceheart proc set has on tooltip 750 Frost Damage with a gold frost staff and 1461 spd, and backbar on my purple fire staff and 1258 spd it has on tooltip 765 Frost Damage. How are proc sets damages calculated? i noticed variations on another characters as well, so they're definitely not fixed values and scale somehow-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
Xiomaro✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »What they need to do is give us pvpers an option to not partake in the proccing game. Give us a monster set that does something like this:
1p: 400 critical resistance.
2p: No procc or item set can damage or heal you. You can also not gain any buffs from itemsets or any debuffs.
I don't like this at all. Proc sets should exist to open up playstyles, the problem with the way they're designed right now is they overload individual abilities so that you 6 negative effects where you could at most get 3 otherwise.
They also need to scale so they're only usable on builds that stack damage stats. They shouldn't enable you to stack burst on top of existing combos but they should enable you to create new burst combos, like undaunted infiltrator+sargent's mail (although the DW double proc looks like a bug tbh).
Maybe it's too much to ask for ZOS to make these balanced but I don't think they should fix sets with more sets.
I've been saying that for a while now, make procsets scale with stats, like skills do, and suddenly your triple proctards dots won't hit for any dmg.
It would make using 1 procset to enhance an ability playstyle more viable while still requiring the Stat investment.
the damage from proc sets do scale with your stats, just not as much as it would be good to. Right now if you have for example 3k spd your proc set does 6k dmg, and if you have 2k spd your proc set does 5.5k dmg. It should be that 3k spd deals 6k dmg, and 2k spd deals 3k dmg, or things like these, better scaling in general.
another thing i don't understand is how exactly these scale. On my magnecro tank the Iceheart proc set has on tooltip 750 Frost Damage with a gold frost staff and 1461 spd, and backbar on my purple fire staff and 1258 spd it has on tooltip 765 Frost Damage. How are proc sets damages calculated? i noticed variations on another characters as well, so they're definitely not fixed values and scale somehow
Do procs actually scale with spell/weapon damage? I'm going to need to hop on the PTS to test but it was my understanding that they scale with damage modifiers (like Berserk, Malacath, relevant class passives & CP etc) and penetration. I was under the impression that Stam/Mag/SD/WD/Crit etc have no effect.PC EU No CP PVPXiomaro: Nord Stamsorc
Xio'maro: Breton Magsorc
Falura Avelni: Dunmer Vampblade
Ulric Longboi: Nord Stamden
Sha'boom-boom: Orc Werewolf Tank
Morga The Roarer Nord Stamcro0 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Recapitated wrote: »What they need to do is give us pvpers an option to not partake in the proccing game. Give us a monster set that does something like this:
1p: 400 critical resistance.
2p: No procc or item set can damage or heal you. You can also not gain any buffs from itemsets or any debuffs.
I don't like this at all. Proc sets should exist to open up playstyles, the problem with the way they're designed right now is they overload individual abilities so that you 6 negative effects where you could at most get 3 otherwise.
They also need to scale so they're only usable on builds that stack damage stats. They shouldn't enable you to stack burst on top of existing combos but they should enable you to create new burst combos, like undaunted infiltrator+sargent's mail (although the DW double proc looks like a bug tbh).
Maybe it's too much to ask for ZOS to make these balanced but I don't think they should fix sets with more sets.
I've been saying that for a while now, make procsets scale with stats, like skills do, and suddenly your triple proctards dots won't hit for any dmg.
It would make using 1 procset to enhance an ability playstyle more viable while still requiring the Stat investment.
the damage from proc sets do scale with your stats, just not as much as it would be good to. Right now if you have for example 3k spd your proc set does 6k dmg, and if you have 2k spd your proc set does 5.5k dmg. It should be that 3k spd deals 6k dmg, and 2k spd deals 3k dmg, or things like these, better scaling in general.
another thing i don't understand is how exactly these scale. On my magnecro tank the Iceheart proc set has on tooltip 750 Frost Damage with a gold frost staff and 1461 spd, and backbar on my purple fire staff and 1258 spd it has on tooltip 765 Frost Damage. How are proc sets damages calculated? i noticed variations on another characters as well, so they're definitely not fixed values and scale somehow
Do procs actually scale with spell/weapon damage? I'm going to need to hop on the PTS to test but it was my understanding that they scale with damage modifiers (like Berserk, Malacath, relevant class passives & CP etc) and penetration. I was under the impression that Stam/Mag/SD/WD/Crit etc have no effect.
I am pretty sure that as you said proc sets only scale with CP and buffs that say Something Like "increases your dmg by 25%".
Im pretty sure your SD and WD have no influence on that.PC/EU, StamSorc Main1 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
I think people are missing a very big reason many people are using 2 proc sets now, the only way to get 1 Mythic, 2 Monster, and 2 full 5 piece sets is with proc sets. The Mythic 1 piece is driving this change more than anything. But it is exactly the same when people used 2 monster, 1 full 5 piece, 1 proc set on back bar and maelstrom on front bar. Which is also better than just using 2 static 5 pieces on both bars and 1 monster set.
The game is much funner with all the extra options. ZOS should stop listening to the same PVPers who are always complaining when they can't instantly kill 20 dudes with streak spam, light attack exploit, sweeps spam, etc and instead of changing their tactics/gear they just want everything nerfed so they can play the same way.
The problem is Not that ppl are not able to kill the average proc abuser.(since Most of them are really Bad defensively)
The Problem rather is that literally any player, regardless of their skill level can slot venomous and sheer venom and can put like 2-3k inc dps on you by simply using 2 abilities.
1v1 that is not as much of a problem, since you can yourself Attack the proc User and kill them quickly or at least pressure them so they have to Go on defense (even tho that doesnt matter much cuz they can reapply that pressure with 2 skills...).
If you are 1vx tho you can have like 3+ ppl on you who all have 2/3 proc sets slotted and they keep you dotted up for like 5k+ dps.
That is simply ridiculous by itself and that is without seeing the difference in Player skill, where an absolute noob can dmg you as much as a Player who spend time working on their Set and Skill setup and who on top of that have to spend gcds for that dmg.
This attitude is why a lot of people dislike PVPers. How do you know all these people a noobs? Why do you think you are so good that you should be able to always kill 3-4-20 dudes? The game isn't that hard. Someone who played PVE for 3+ years can quickly with the right gear/skills to not get instantly beat by long time PVPers, as it should be. You have access to all the same gear/skills they have so if your 'skill' is so superior you should still be able to kill 3 dudes.
BTW the more I play PVP the more I can see that what you all call 'skill' are mostly exploits. For instance, light attack animation cancelling, it is not hard to do but it is definitely an exploit, giving multiple attacks in same second there should only be one attack. Also I am seeing the jump/shield exploit, where you can essentially take no damage from some ultimates just by jumping and block while in the air. Always wondered why PVPers in PVE would be jumping around all the time and now I know.
I just started playing BG not long ago and I can kill those proc people just as often as they kill me, even 2 at a time sometimes. BTW I am seeing 5+ surprise attack, whirlwind, blastbone, fury, magnum, sweep/jab and stuff like that in death recap way more than any proc stuff. I am totally against Nerfing anything that isn't actually broken like LA weaving, prefer people just try new things and find new ways to counter.
And actually tired of all the changes/nerfs to satisfy PVPer seem to almost always make PVE harder.
How to ensure no one takes your post seriously:
Step 1: Label animation cancelling as an exploit.
Congratulations you've completed all the steps!14 -
EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭It seems to me that proc sets are at least as big an issue as AOE's when it comes to calculations by the servers, and almost certainly a far greater impact on available resources. And lets face it, everyone has at least one proc set in their build now, and the majority probably have three.0 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭Proc sets are fine IF they have some conditions. Simple things like on "Weapon abilities" is too easy."What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"0 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
I think people are missing a very big reason many people are using 2 proc sets now, the only way to get 1 Mythic, 2 Monster, and 2 full 5 piece sets is with proc sets. The Mythic 1 piece is driving this change more than anything. But it is exactly the same when people used 2 monster, 1 full 5 piece, 1 proc set on back bar and maelstrom on front bar. Which is also better than just using 2 static 5 pieces on both bars and 1 monster set.
The game is much funner with all the extra options. ZOS should stop listening to the same PVPers who are always complaining when they can't instantly kill 20 dudes with streak spam, light attack exploit, sweeps spam, etc and instead of changing their tactics/gear they just want everything nerfed so they can play the same way.
The problem is Not that ppl are not able to kill the average proc abuser.(since Most of them are really Bad defensively)
The Problem rather is that literally any player, regardless of their skill level can slot venomous and sheer venom and can put like 2-3k inc dps on you by simply using 2 abilities.
1v1 that is not as much of a problem, since you can yourself Attack the proc User and kill them quickly or at least pressure them so they have to Go on defense (even tho that doesnt matter much cuz they can reapply that pressure with 2 skills...).
If you are 1vx tho you can have like 3+ ppl on you who all have 2/3 proc sets slotted and they keep you dotted up for like 5k+ dps.
That is simply ridiculous by itself and that is without seeing the difference in Player skill, where an absolute noob can dmg you as much as a Player who spend time working on their Set and Skill setup and who on top of that have to spend gcds for that dmg.
This attitude is why a lot of people dislike PVPers. How do you know all these people a noobs? Why do you think you are so good that you should be able to always kill 3-4-20 dudes? The game isn't that hard. Someone who played PVE for 3+ years can quickly with the right gear/skills to not get instantly beat by long time PVPers, as it should be. You have access to all the same gear/skills they have so if your 'skill' is so superior you should still be able to kill 3 dudes.
BTW the more I play PVP the more I can see that what you all call 'skill' are mostly exploits. For instance, light attack animation cancelling, it is not hard to do but it is definitely an exploit, giving multiple attacks in same second there should only be one attack. Also I am seeing the jump/shield exploit, where you can essentially take no damage from some ultimates just by jumping and block while in the air. Always wondered why PVPers in PVE would be jumping around all the time and now I know.
I just started playing BG not long ago and I can kill those proc people just as often as they kill me, even 2 at a time sometimes. BTW I am seeing 5+ surprise attack, whirlwind, blastbone, fury, magnum, sweep/jab and stuff like that in death recap way more than any proc stuff. I am totally against Nerfing anything that isn't actually broken like LA weaving, prefer people just try new things and find new ways to counter.
And actually tired of all the changes/nerfs to satisfy PVPer seem to almost always make PVE harder.
How to ensure no one takes your post seriously:
Step 1: Label animation cancelling as an exploit.
Congratulations you've completed all the steps!
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit. Do it too soon or to late and only one registers. A proper system would register both clicks but still do them in their correct time. For instance, if a Light attack takes .2 seconds then that should be the same no matter what. If sweeps say it should take 1 second to channel then whether you do a light attack before or after it should still take 1 second for complete. So you get both but never faster than 1.2 seconds. Rather than if you do it right both go off in .5 seconds, if you do it wrong only one goes off. They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.1 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit.
How does having to practice to get it right make it an exploit? Thats like saying its an exploit to learn to Play the game because you have to practice to get good.
They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.
They already said that weaving is not an exploit, but that it is a legitimate game mechanic.
And Ofc you can tell people that you have to do it to get the highest DPS even tho it is not an exploit...
Pls at least try to make any sense with your posts instead of just crying about weaving and ani cancelling cuz you wanna play the game with half the speed.PC/EU, StamSorc Main6 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭kathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
I think people are missing a very big reason many people are using 2 proc sets now, the only way to get 1 Mythic, 2 Monster, and 2 full 5 piece sets is with proc sets. The Mythic 1 piece is driving this change more than anything. But it is exactly the same when people used 2 monster, 1 full 5 piece, 1 proc set on back bar and maelstrom on front bar. Which is also better than just using 2 static 5 pieces on both bars and 1 monster set.
The game is much funner with all the extra options. ZOS should stop listening to the same PVPers who are always complaining when they can't instantly kill 20 dudes with streak spam, light attack exploit, sweeps spam, etc and instead of changing their tactics/gear they just want everything nerfed so they can play the same way.
The problem is Not that ppl are not able to kill the average proc abuser.(since Most of them are really Bad defensively)
The Problem rather is that literally any player, regardless of their skill level can slot venomous and sheer venom and can put like 2-3k inc dps on you by simply using 2 abilities.
1v1 that is not as much of a problem, since you can yourself Attack the proc User and kill them quickly or at least pressure them so they have to Go on defense (even tho that doesnt matter much cuz they can reapply that pressure with 2 skills...).
If you are 1vx tho you can have like 3+ ppl on you who all have 2/3 proc sets slotted and they keep you dotted up for like 5k+ dps.
That is simply ridiculous by itself and that is without seeing the difference in Player skill, where an absolute noob can dmg you as much as a Player who spend time working on their Set and Skill setup and who on top of that have to spend gcds for that dmg.
This attitude is why a lot of people dislike PVPers. How do you know all these people a noobs? Why do you think you are so good that you should be able to always kill 3-4-20 dudes? The game isn't that hard. Someone who played PVE for 3+ years can quickly with the right gear/skills to not get instantly beat by long time PVPers, as it should be. You have access to all the same gear/skills they have so if your 'skill' is so superior you should still be able to kill 3 dudes.
BTW the more I play PVP the more I can see that what you all call 'skill' are mostly exploits. For instance, light attack animation cancelling, it is not hard to do but it is definitely an exploit, giving multiple attacks in same second there should only be one attack. Also I am seeing the jump/shield exploit, where you can essentially take no damage from some ultimates just by jumping and block while in the air. Always wondered why PVPers in PVE would be jumping around all the time and now I know.
I just started playing BG not long ago and I can kill those proc people just as often as they kill me, even 2 at a time sometimes. BTW I am seeing 5+ surprise attack, whirlwind, blastbone, fury, magnum, sweep/jab and stuff like that in death recap way more than any proc stuff. I am totally against Nerfing anything that isn't actually broken like LA weaving, prefer people just try new things and find new ways to counter.
And actually tired of all the changes/nerfs to satisfy PVPer seem to almost always make PVE harder.
How to ensure no one takes your post seriously:
Step 1: Label animation cancelling as an exploit.
Congratulations you've completed all the steps!
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit. Do it too soon or to late and only one registers. A proper system would register both clicks but still do them in their correct time. For instance, if a Light attack takes .2 seconds then that should be the same no matter what. If sweeps say it should take 1 second to channel then whether you do a light attack before or after it should still take 1 second for complete. So you get both but never faster than 1.2 seconds. Rather than if you do it right both go off in .5 seconds, if you do it wrong only one goes off. They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.
if you really wanna know more about weaving and global cooldowns, there's a guide on Steam about the basics-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube2 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
I think people are missing a very big reason many people are using 2 proc sets now, the only way to get 1 Mythic, 2 Monster, and 2 full 5 piece sets is with proc sets. The Mythic 1 piece is driving this change more than anything. But it is exactly the same when people used 2 monster, 1 full 5 piece, 1 proc set on back bar and maelstrom on front bar. Which is also better than just using 2 static 5 pieces on both bars and 1 monster set.
The game is much funner with all the extra options. ZOS should stop listening to the same PVPers who are always complaining when they can't instantly kill 20 dudes with streak spam, light attack exploit, sweeps spam, etc and instead of changing their tactics/gear they just want everything nerfed so they can play the same way.
The problem is Not that ppl are not able to kill the average proc abuser.(since Most of them are really Bad defensively)
The Problem rather is that literally any player, regardless of their skill level can slot venomous and sheer venom and can put like 2-3k inc dps on you by simply using 2 abilities.
1v1 that is not as much of a problem, since you can yourself Attack the proc User and kill them quickly or at least pressure them so they have to Go on defense (even tho that doesnt matter much cuz they can reapply that pressure with 2 skills...).
If you are 1vx tho you can have like 3+ ppl on you who all have 2/3 proc sets slotted and they keep you dotted up for like 5k+ dps.
That is simply ridiculous by itself and that is without seeing the difference in Player skill, where an absolute noob can dmg you as much as a Player who spend time working on their Set and Skill setup and who on top of that have to spend gcds for that dmg.
This attitude is why a lot of people dislike PVPers. How do you know all these people a noobs? Why do you think you are so good that you should be able to always kill 3-4-20 dudes? The game isn't that hard. Someone who played PVE for 3+ years can quickly with the right gear/skills to not get instantly beat by long time PVPers, as it should be. You have access to all the same gear/skills they have so if your 'skill' is so superior you should still be able to kill 3 dudes.
BTW the more I play PVP the more I can see that what you all call 'skill' are mostly exploits. For instance, light attack animation cancelling, it is not hard to do but it is definitely an exploit, giving multiple attacks in same second there should only be one attack. Also I am seeing the jump/shield exploit, where you can essentially take no damage from some ultimates just by jumping and block while in the air. Always wondered why PVPers in PVE would be jumping around all the time and now I know.
I just started playing BG not long ago and I can kill those proc people just as often as they kill me, even 2 at a time sometimes. BTW I am seeing 5+ surprise attack, whirlwind, blastbone, fury, magnum, sweep/jab and stuff like that in death recap way more than any proc stuff. I am totally against Nerfing anything that isn't actually broken like LA weaving, prefer people just try new things and find new ways to counter.
And actually tired of all the changes/nerfs to satisfy PVPer seem to almost always make PVE harder.
How to ensure no one takes your post seriously:
Step 1: Label animation cancelling as an exploit.
Congratulations you've completed all the steps!
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit.
PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK11 -
novemberhhh✭✭✭for the kids that havent hit level 41 yet, heres a minor spoiler:
kinda off topic to whine about this games version of auto-attack in a thread about proc sets tho
really the issue i see with proc sets in pvp is that skills just dont work 80% of the time, so people have given up even trying to use them and now just let the procs do all the work. and since your actual stats are irrelevant to proc dmg, might as well build tanky and/or stack all the procs4045 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭novemberhhh wrote: »for the kids that havent hit level 41 yet, heres a minor spoiler:
kinda off topic to whine about this games version of auto-attack in a thread about proc sets tho
really the issue i see with proc sets in pvp is that skills just dont work 80% of the time, so people have given up even trying to use them and now just let the procs do all the work. and since your actual stats are irrelevant to proc dmg, might as well build tanky and/or stack all the procs
Wow I'll post this Pic in every weave/anim cancel topic from now on.3 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The proc sets are totally out of control right now. It's odd that ZOS hasn't commented on it at all either, as proc damage being too high is something they've usually been pretty receptive of in the past.
During the IC event, I probably had hunter's or sheer on my recap for 75% or more of my deaths. Out of the remaining 25%, a further 10-15% probably contained another proc set.
One thing that would help mitigate the effectiveness of these sets is to make them global debuffs, so that only ONE of any given proc can be applied to you at a time. I shouldn't be able to get 3 hunter's and 3 sheers on me simultaneously.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭Recapitated wrote: »There are also heal, block, thorn, and reflect sets that can counter DOT and direct damage sets. I could throw together something that can make the proc set user kill themself.
Variety is the spice of life. Let people play as they like. Don’t like how they engage you, make them think twice about doing it again.
Post the buildkathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
They should just implement it via Battle Spirit. Or just design proc sets so they have narrow proc conditions that don't really overlap, but the cat is mostly out of the bag now.
I would be ok with an overlap preventative. Such as, After your actions Proc a set, all procs are on Cool Down for 2 seconds. This cannot affect the actual set cool down though.
Example, if a set can proc every 10 seconds, you cannot proc an effect for 2 seconds, after those 2 seconds, the set that proc'd can still trigger 8 seconds later. The goal would be to prevent your other set for triggering for 2 seconds after the first set does.
But the total Cool Down per set cannot be affected, else it makes things quite odd.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »There are also heal, block, thorn, and reflect sets that can counter DOT and direct damage sets. I could throw together something that can make the proc set user kill themself.
Variety is the spice of life. Let people play as they like. Don’t like how they engage you, make them think twice about doing it again.
Post the buildkathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
They should just implement it via Battle Spirit. Or just design proc sets so they have narrow proc conditions that don't really overlap, but the cat is mostly out of the bag now.
I would be ok with an overlap preventative. Such as, After your actions Proc a set, all procs are on Cool Down for 2 seconds. This cannot affect the actual set cool down though.
Example, if a set can proc every 10 seconds, you cannot proc an effect for 2 seconds, after those 2 seconds, the set that proc'd can still trigger 8 seconds later. The goal would be to prevent your other set for triggering for 2 seconds after the first set does.
But the total Cool Down per set cannot be affected, else it makes things quite odd.
That's sensible, don't know if 2 seconds is the right number but the overall shape of the solution should make everyone happy. Except for people currently overperforming in PVP.0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »There are also heal, block, thorn, and reflect sets that can counter DOT and direct damage sets. I could throw together something that can make the proc set user kill themself.
Variety is the spice of life. Let people play as they like. Don’t like how they engage you, make them think twice about doing it again.
Post the buildkathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
They should just implement it via Battle Spirit. Or just design proc sets so they have narrow proc conditions that don't really overlap, but the cat is mostly out of the bag now.
I would be ok with an overlap preventative. Such as, After your actions Proc a set, all procs are on Cool Down for 2 seconds. This cannot affect the actual set cool down though.
Example, if a set can proc every 10 seconds, you cannot proc an effect for 2 seconds, after those 2 seconds, the set that proc'd can still trigger 8 seconds later. The goal would be to prevent your other set for triggering for 2 seconds after the first set does.
But the total Cool Down per set cannot be affected, else it makes things quite odd.
The whole idea of the AOE cooldown test was to see if reducing calculations would improve performance. It seems like adding double conditions to proc sets would not be a good thing for the servers to try and handle.0 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Recapitated wrote: »kathandira wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »There are also heal, block, thorn, and reflect sets that can counter DOT and direct damage sets. I could throw together something that can make the proc set user kill themself.
Variety is the spice of life. Let people play as they like. Don’t like how they engage you, make them think twice about doing it again.
Post the buildkathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
They should just implement it via Battle Spirit. Or just design proc sets so they have narrow proc conditions that don't really overlap, but the cat is mostly out of the bag now.
I would be ok with an overlap preventative. Such as, After your actions Proc a set, all procs are on Cool Down for 2 seconds. This cannot affect the actual set cool down though.
Example, if a set can proc every 10 seconds, you cannot proc an effect for 2 seconds, after those 2 seconds, the set that proc'd can still trigger 8 seconds later. The goal would be to prevent your other set for triggering for 2 seconds after the first set does.
But the total Cool Down per set cannot be affected, else it makes things quite odd.
That's sensible, don't know if 2 seconds is the right number but the overall shape of the solution should make everyone happy. Except for people currently overperforming in PVP.
It wouldn't make me happy (not sure I'm overperforming tho).
Above solution would prevent lining up burst from multiple proc sets, which is a good thing. However, constantly getting a lot of DOT proc pressure from, lets say a single Poison Injection triggering multiple proc sets, is nearly as bad a game experience as eating lined up proc burst damage.Edited by Bergzorn on September 24, 2020 4:25PMno CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭kathandira wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »There are also heal, block, thorn, and reflect sets that can counter DOT and direct damage sets. I could throw together something that can make the proc set user kill themself.
Variety is the spice of life. Let people play as they like. Don’t like how they engage you, make them think twice about doing it again.
Post the buildkathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
They should just implement it via Battle Spirit. Or just design proc sets so they have narrow proc conditions that don't really overlap, but the cat is mostly out of the bag now.
I would be ok with an overlap preventative. Such as, After your actions Proc a set, all procs are on Cool Down for 2 seconds. This cannot affect the actual set cool down though.
Example, if a set can proc every 10 seconds, you cannot proc an effect for 2 seconds, after those 2 seconds, the set that proc'd can still trigger 8 seconds later. The goal would be to prevent your other set for triggering for 2 seconds after the first set does.
But the total Cool Down per set cannot be affected, else it makes things quite odd.
The whole idea of the AOE cooldown test was to see if reducing calculations would improve performance. It seems like adding double conditions to proc sets would not be a good thing for the servers to try and handle.
That is a pretty good point.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit.
How does having to practice to get it right make it an exploit? Thats like saying its an exploit to learn to Play the game because you have to practice to get good.
They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.
They already said that weaving is not an exploit, but that it is a legitimate game mechanic.
And Ofc you can tell people that you have to do it to get the highest DPS even tho it is not an exploit...
Pls at least try to make any sense with your posts instead of just crying about weaving and ani cancelling cuz you wanna play the game with half the speed.
Don't rewrite Ani/cancel history
1. when this was first discovered the 'good' players said it was an exploit and they wouldn't do it
2. the devs said it was exploit, we stupidly didn't add hard coded cooldown to each activity, instead we only used animations not knowing people would figure out how to cancel them
3. then they couldn't fix it, then they said it was a feature not a bug
4. they all got fired, the next devs went with idea it is a feature (they like damage exploits but will stop defensive exploits like roll dodge spamming, it appears to be their preference for the game, so don't be surprised if all your whining about PROC sets doesn't do anything to sway them)
5. then script kiddies were all over (still are) their programmable keypads/mice doing LA/spammable/bash right and left
6. then 'good, elite' players said can't compete, we have to learn this exploit, and make it seem like a great
7. all that is fine but don't act like you are superior to everyone else who doesn't like cheating
My only point is that it is a little bit hysterical/hypocritical all the constant whining about Proc sets, health builds, etc. while at the same time using exploits, cheesy combos and programmable keypads/mice.1 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit.
How does having to practice to get it right make it an exploit? Thats like saying its an exploit to learn to Play the game because you have to practice to get good.
They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.
They already said that weaving is not an exploit, but that it is a legitimate game mechanic.
And Ofc you can tell people that you have to do it to get the highest DPS even tho it is not an exploit...
Pls at least try to make any sense with your posts instead of just crying about weaving and ani cancelling cuz you wanna play the game with half the speed.
Don't rewrite Ani/cancel history
1. when this was first discovered the 'good' players said it was an exploit and they wouldn't do it
2. the devs said it was exploit, we stupidly didn't add hard coded cooldown to each activity, instead we only used animations not knowing people would figure out how to cancel them
3. then they couldn't fix it, then they said it was a feature not a bug
4. they all got fired, the next devs went with idea it is a feature (they like damage exploits but will stop defensive exploits like roll dodge spamming, it appears to be their preference for the game, so don't be surprised if all your whining about PROC sets doesn't do anything to sway them)
5. then script kiddies were all over (still are) their programmable keypads/mice doing LA/spammable/bash right and left
6. then 'good, elite' players said can't compete, we have to learn this exploit, and make it seem like a great
7. all that is fine but don't act like you are superior to everyone else who doesn't like cheating
My only point is that it is a little bit hysterical/hypocritical all the constant whining about Proc sets, health builds, etc. while at the same time using exploits, cheesy combos and programmable keypads/mice.
The difference is everything else in the game has been balanced to account for that, including counters to extra damage, cast times such as dswing etc.
Would be another story if ZOS came out and said counters to proc sets (but not DOT abilities, somehow) specifically will be buffed to bring proc sets in line with other forms of offense. Not really a needed change from the pre-proc meta but at least there would be a balance.2 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit.
How does having to practice to get it right make it an exploit? Thats like saying its an exploit to learn to Play the game because you have to practice to get good.
They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.
They already said that weaving is not an exploit, but that it is a legitimate game mechanic.
And Ofc you can tell people that you have to do it to get the highest DPS even tho it is not an exploit...
Pls at least try to make any sense with your posts instead of just crying about weaving and ani cancelling cuz you wanna play the game with half the speed.
Don't rewrite Ani/cancel history
1. when this was first discovered the 'good' players said it was an exploit and they wouldn't do it
2. the devs said it was exploit, we stupidly didn't add hard coded cooldown to each activity, instead we only used animations not knowing people would figure out how to cancel them
3. then they couldn't fix it, then they said it was a feature not a bug
4. they all got fired, the next devs went with idea it is a feature (they like damage exploits but will stop defensive exploits like roll dodge spamming, it appears to be their preference for the game, so don't be surprised if all your whining about PROC sets doesn't do anything to sway them)
5. then script kiddies were all over (still are) their programmable keypads/mice doing LA/spammable/bash right and left
6. then 'good, elite' players said can't compete, we have to learn this exploit, and make it seem like a great
7. all that is fine but don't act like you are superior to everyone else who doesn't like cheating
My only point is that it is a little bit hysterical/hypocritical all the constant whining about Proc sets, health builds, etc. while at the same time using exploits, cheesy combos and programmable keypads/mice.
Many console players would very much like this to change. While most of us can weave/cancel, it is exhausting and really not "Fun". It is something we are forced to do to compete and push enough DPS to do veteran end game content, but I honestly don't think the majority of us actually enjoy it. Its bad enough we don't get proper DoT/AoE/Buff/Debuff timers (via mods), but we also have to deal with weaving on a controller. Combined with general console performance causing lag spikes/blips due to too many things occurring at the same time on the screen, weaving can be...touch and go at times.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc2 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit.
How does having to practice to get it right make it an exploit? Thats like saying its an exploit to learn to Play the game because you have to practice to get good.
They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.
They already said that weaving is not an exploit, but that it is a legitimate game mechanic.
And Ofc you can tell people that you have to do it to get the highest DPS even tho it is not an exploit...
Pls at least try to make any sense with your posts instead of just crying about weaving and ani cancelling cuz you wanna play the game with half the speed.
Don't rewrite Ani/cancel history
1. when this was first discovered the 'good' players said it was an exploit and they wouldn't do it
2. the devs said it was exploit, we stupidly didn't add hard coded cooldown to each activity, instead we only used animations not knowing people would figure out how to cancel them
3. then they couldn't fix it, then they said it was a feature not a bug
4. they all got fired, the next devs went with idea it is a feature (they like damage exploits but will stop defensive exploits like roll dodge spamming, it appears to be their preference for the game, so don't be surprised if all your whining about PROC sets doesn't do anything to sway them)
5. then script kiddies were all over (still are) their programmable keypads/mice doing LA/spammable/bash right and left
6. then 'good, elite' players said can't compete, we have to learn this exploit, and make it seem like a great
7. all that is fine but don't act like you are superior to everyone else who doesn't like cheating
My only point is that it is a little bit hysterical/hypocritical all the constant whining about Proc sets, health builds, etc. while at the same time using exploits, cheesy combos and programmable keypads/mice.
Many console players would very much like this to change. While most of us can weave/cancel, it is exhausting and really not "Fun". It is something we are forced to do to compete and push enough DPS to do veteran end game content, but I honestly don't think the majority of us actually enjoy it. Its bad enough we don't get proper DoT/AoE/Buff/Debuff timers (via mods), but we also have to deal with weaving on a controller. Combined with general console performance causing lag spikes/blips due to too many things occurring at the same time on the screen, weaving can be...touch and go at times.
Yes if you use a controller, you have to learn to do actually do this exploit. And for someone with arthritis it is brutal and NOT FUN. But for the programmable keypad/mice folks they just set their spammable key to do LA/spammable or LA/spam/block or LA/spam/bash and not just the spammable. Which doesn't require any skill/practice and since the timing is always the same it always works. With a fast paced game you would think controllers would be superior but just look at how many 'elite' people use keypad/mouse.Edited by Merforum on September 24, 2020 5:36PM1 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit.
How does having to practice to get it right make it an exploit? Thats like saying its an exploit to learn to Play the game because you have to practice to get good.
They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.
They already said that weaving is not an exploit, but that it is a legitimate game mechanic.
And Ofc you can tell people that you have to do it to get the highest DPS even tho it is not an exploit...
Pls at least try to make any sense with your posts instead of just crying about weaving and ani cancelling cuz you wanna play the game with half the speed.
Don't rewrite Ani/cancel history
1. when this was first discovered the 'good' players said it was an exploit and they wouldn't do it
2. the devs said it was exploit, we stupidly didn't add hard coded cooldown to each activity, instead we only used animations not knowing people would figure out how to cancel them
3. then they couldn't fix it, then they said it was a feature not a bug
4. they all got fired, the next devs went with idea it is a feature (they like damage exploits but will stop defensive exploits like roll dodge spamming, it appears to be their preference for the game, so don't be surprised if all your whining about PROC sets doesn't do anything to sway them)
5. then script kiddies were all over (still are) their programmable keypads/mice doing LA/spammable/bash right and left
6. then 'good, elite' players said can't compete, we have to learn this exploit, and make it seem like a great
7. all that is fine but don't act like you are superior to everyone else who doesn't like cheating
My only point is that it is a little bit hysterical/hypocritical all the constant whining about Proc sets, health builds, etc. while at the same time using exploits, cheesy combos and programmable keypads/mice.
The difference is everything else in the game has been balanced to account for that, including counters to extra damage, cast times such as dswing etc.
Would be another story if ZOS came out and said counters to proc sets (but not DOT abilities, somehow) specifically will be buffed to bring proc sets in line with other forms of offense. Not really a needed change from the pre-proc meta but at least there would be a balance.
Yeah, adding extra cooldown to proc sets that already have a cooldown doesn't make sense. How about a cooldown on light attacks or if 2 people do a light attack on the same person within 2 seconds only one works. How about heavy attack immunity after you get hit by a heavy attack for 3 seconds? Do these people complaining about proc sets consider DOTs and enchants that add DOTs as proc sets?
BTW way I am not complaining about light attack exploits it has just forced me to use harbinger, so the faster they attack the faster they die in PVP. I have stayed away from PVP because of the toxic people but BG is kind of fun. My real problem is the same people complain over and over about PVP 'balance' which inevitably makes PVE less fun over and over. But the last few changes have had as many good things as bad things so hope things get better. Microsoft has massive server infrastructure so getting new/more servers on back-end should be simple.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »
The mere fact that you have to practice to get it just right is proof that it is an exploit.
How does having to practice to get it right make it an exploit? Thats like saying its an exploit to learn to Play the game because you have to practice to get good.
They haven't fixed it yet so probably won't. BTW you can't tell people this is very important to get highest DPS and at the same time say this isn't exploiting the game mechanics.
They already said that weaving is not an exploit, but that it is a legitimate game mechanic.
And Ofc you can tell people that you have to do it to get the highest DPS even tho it is not an exploit...
Pls at least try to make any sense with your posts instead of just crying about weaving and ani cancelling cuz you wanna play the game with half the speed.
Don't rewrite Ani/cancel history
1. when this was first discovered the 'good' players said it was an exploit and they wouldn't do it
2. the devs said it was exploit, we stupidly didn't add hard coded cooldown to each activity, instead we only used animations not knowing people would figure out how to cancel them
3. then they couldn't fix it, then they said it was a feature not a bug
4. they all got fired, the next devs went with idea it is a feature (they like damage exploits but will stop defensive exploits like roll dodge spamming, it appears to be their preference for the game, so don't be surprised if all your whining about PROC sets doesn't do anything to sway them)
5. then script kiddies were all over (still are) their programmable keypads/mice doing LA/spammable/bash right and left
6. then 'good, elite' players said can't compete, we have to learn this exploit, and make it seem like a great
7. all that is fine but don't act like you are superior to everyone else who doesn't like cheating
My only point is that it is a little bit hysterical/hypocritical all the constant whining about Proc sets, health builds, etc. while at the same time using exploits, cheesy combos and programmable keypads/mice.
Many console players would very much like this to change. While most of us can weave/cancel, it is exhausting and really not "Fun". It is something we are forced to do to compete and push enough DPS to do veteran end game content, but I honestly don't think the majority of us actually enjoy it. Its bad enough we don't get proper DoT/AoE/Buff/Debuff timers (via mods), but we also have to deal with weaving on a controller. Combined with general console performance causing lag spikes/blips due to too many things occurring at the same time on the screen, weaving can be...touch and go at times.
FYI You dont have to animation cancel or light attack weave to complete veteran end game content. There is plenty easy to play builds that will give You more then enough DPS to complete everything game have to offer. Not every run is a score run and when people fail to complete some veteran content most of the time it's because they suck at mechanics.2 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭FYI You dont have to animation cancel or light attack weave to complete veteran end game content. There is plenty easy to play builds that will give You more then enough DPS to complete everything game have to offer. Not every run is a score run and when people fail to complete some veteran content most of the time it's because they suck at mechanics.
I don't feel being bound to a handful of non-weave builds is a good solution.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Vetixio✭✭✭✭The worst offenders are definitely Sheer Venom, Venomous Smite, Caluurions and Unleashed Terror. Some others can be a bit cheesy on certain classes like MagDK with Overwhelming and Grothdarr but its not burst damage and you can more effectively avoid it. Whereas the ones I listed are either instant burst or big dots, both which are gross and need their damage reducing at least in PvP, in PvE you wanna be a proctard you go for it but keep that out of PvP its cheesy afPìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?
Death will be your purge... It works like a proc set: "whenever you die, all debuffs are removed"0