The shield is gonna be ... Lacking. It kinda has to be, if its decent in PvE it'll probably be too strong for PvP because to be useful to a tank it'll have to be independent of spell damage or max mag.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually mostly like these changes, but by removing the innate block cost and damage reduction from ice staves and moving it to a skill that will likely never be slotted... Ice staves have been pretty well hurt for tanks in PvE.

If ZoS were to incorporate all of the changes, and leave ancient knowledge untouched, ice staves would be, IMO, well balanced and viable for many pve scenarios. But by making all of these changes AND removing ice staves innate blocking potential, the purpose of the ice staff is lost and garbled as it is no longer a very good defensive weapon, AND an inferior offensive weapon as well.

IMO ice staff needs an offensive bonus tied to it exclusively like the other two destruction elements have (single target bonus for fire, multi target bonus for lightning) in order for the staff to have an actual balance of offensive and defensive capability. It has no offensive capability right now. The changes they're giving are a lowering of WOE's damage and a support-based debuff, Minor Brittle, neither of which truly up its offensive capability.

As in, if they ''incorporate all of the changes and leave ancient knowledge untouched,'' it won't be a better offensive weapon than if they DO touch ancient knowledge. I just want to clarify that.

As far as I can see, though, they aren't changing ancient knowledge. Trifocus is the passive that makes ice staff heavy attacks taunt. Ancient knowledge is the passive that offers the ice staff's block cost and damage reduction. They've only reported on changing trifocus. Or did I miss something?

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

adding major breach and fracture to it sort of devalues weakness to elements as that skill already has major breach on it, along with a morph that no-one in their right mind ever uses.

Yeah, but tanks already face a severe bar-space crunch with all of the mandatory skills that they need to slot for de-buffs.

Having to run two separate skills to fulfill taunt + resistance debuffs is a gigantic nerf compared to simply using S&B and Puncture.

There's also no reason to use the Frost taunt if you're using S&B and Frost Staff since, as has been said, the Undaunted ranged taunt is leagues better. Frost Clench definitely needs to have resistance de-buffs if it wants to see any use outside of purposely inefficient theme builds.

And then Elemental Weakness should have the unused morph drop the resistance de-buffs and instead apply Minor Maim and Minor Heroism so that double Frost Staff tanks can obtain those S&B buffs without having to rely on RNG Chilled procs or having to play only a certain class or use only certain inefficient armor sets.

thadjarvis wrote: »

Things like projectile shield could be useful in PvP, but for PvE everything but Minor Brittle seems like fluff.

Question is who applies it?

Healer: unlikely as most time is spent on resto bar
Tank: OT can forgo SnB and run two frost staffs as well as run charged trait
DD: if two frost staffs and charged trait is reuqired then it's probably a big DPS loss and letting an OT do it is probably better.
However, it's good for frost magden RPers in non-meta groups (likely running tanks with SnB as well) as they bring a lot to the table.

That is the question right now, as it's certainly between off tank and dps. if we can guarentee magden's place as being the best chilled applicant that would likely be for the best as it means tanks can't steal the utility. it involves buffing by changing the damage types of animal companions skills to frost, and just giving magden another skill in winter's embrace like AB4.0 that helps a ton with chilled proc.

thadjarvis wrote: »

Proccing chilled is a minor issue. The problem is that you have to run 1 or 2 frost staffs

i don't think that's a problem. we wanted them to be used in the first place.

Pauwer wrote: »

Nooooo don't touch the frost staff. I have the best heavy armor pvp sorc tank with frost staff and it is perfect as it is. Don't change anything. Pretty please with sugar on top. It's great as it is. Dps have already other staves, why why why ruin at option to play other kinds of builds too? I need the heavy attack taunt and damage shield and need the blocking to cost magicka. Whyyyyyyyyyyy? I need the wall of elements as it is. It's great as it is. Wtf actually wtf?? Stop this nonsense and focus on performance pls.

well, i'm not zos, but mag dps have a severe lack of options compared to stamdps with flame being the best for pretty much the entire history of the game. you're in the minority when it comes to liking the tri focus passive. most people find it annoying and don't consider taking it. frost wall of elements definitely needs some help as currently shown on the PTS though.

Really should have Ice Staff be a DPS weapon, given that it's part of the -Destruction- school like its Fire and Shock counterparts. Ice is always going to be mediocre at tanking and damage as long as it tries to do both, rather, it should be a damage weapon with a different utility than what Shock offers.

Then come in with something like "Alteration Staff" to bring in another classic TES magic school and just dedicate it to tanking so it can actually be properly balanced for Magicka tanks. Alteration for tanking, Restoration for healing, Destruction (Fire, Shock, AND Frost) for damage.

Move it to S&B here is the link for the suggestion

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546712/move-frost-staff-changes-to-s-b#latest

This is my thoughts about the changes.

Impulse: Each elemental type of this ability and its morphs have gained new functionality.

Flame Impulse now deals bonus damage that scales based on missing health if the target hit was burning.

Frost Impulse now applies Minor Protection to up to 6 group members for 6 seconds.

Shock Impulse now deals 5% more damage for each enemy hit, up to 30%.

The Frost Staff version may want to consider applying Minor Vulnerability to targets, if you want to be semi-consistent with m/M Brittle with a different debuff. You have already a protective skill via Wall of Elements, that's effectively a barrier that protects user and group members.

I am weary that ZOS is trying to add too much to defensive qualities and not enough utility that could swing both ways for dps and tanking.

Tri-Focus:

This passive no longer causes your Heavy Attacks with a Frost Staff to taunt the enemy.

Increased the strength of the Damage Shield granted from Heavy Attacking with a Frost Staff to 12.5/25% of your Max Health, up from 4/8%.

This should be streamlined to provide a flat +4/8% strength to Damage Shields. This would support a broad range of players, not specific to tanking, but very beneficial for tanks that use harden armor, igneous shield, bone shield, etc. In addition to other class and non-class skills that offer this type of protection.