Ganking Players Fighting Mobs (IC)

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

Dovakhan wrote: »

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

Dovakhan wrote: »

It's amazing that people seemingly can't comprehend that the IC (and, to a lesser extent, Cyrodiil) are MIXED PvE/PvP zones (even by Zenimax' own definition), and that there are STORIES, NPC's and bosses that people wants to play and enjoy without some PvP hero jumping out to kill them

well, I think we're pretty much done here as we both made our points and it starts to get repetitive.

One thing though, if you're talking about preferences, start talking for yourself and not in the name of 'people'. As I for one don't feel included in your 'people'.

[snip]

And also, please do note what's exactly the OP complaining about. And like that, all the others who complained about the same thing over the years.

And besides, my suggestions benefit both PvP'ers and PvE'rs. The only ones not benefitted are the boys who feel pleasure killing PvE'rs just for the LOLz. And much like they don't care about others, I also care a crap about their opinions or feelings. Just as everyone should do.

I actually wasn't complaining. I was asking the question since the idea is so foreign to my personality.

I would love the ability to enjoy the content without the ganking however, but the post wasn't made for that. Of course the responses show that it is a deeper issue than "just live with PvP in a PvP zone".

PizzaCat82 · September 2020

jaws343 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

What would it matter to you?

... ZOS shouldn't waste time catering to a handful of players refusing to play a zone as it was designed.

ZOS can waste their time doing whatever they want. Would you be mad at people getting rewards you had to gank and hide to get?

That you had to run off-peak hours to hunt through, or spend time with groups to zerg your way through?

I mean, whats it matter to you? What if they could flip a switch and you'd never be affected by it?

Would you be mad at the skins, polymorphs, pets, and telvar rewards? You can buy those in a trader for gold. Not even step foot in IC.

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

jaws343 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If they made a PVE version of Imperial City or Cyro I guarantee you PVPers would lose their *** and some would probably quit the game.

Cant be a ganker if everone's a ganker.

Nope, at least I wouldn't, but there is one condition, same as with PvE Cyrodiil. No Alliance Points and Tel Vars for PvE version. That's all. Then you can have your PvE Cyrodiil and IC.

I'd go even further. No rewards at all if this became a PVE only zone. You can complete your quests, explore the zone, grab skyshards and books and fish, but absolutely zero drops from mobs and zero drops from quest turn ins. No Tel Var, AP, Key Frags, gold, boxes, nothing. Don't want to take the actual risk the PvPvE zone poses, you don't deserve any rewards for it.

No rewards? What about the storyline in the zone? You are too focused on the PvP stuff....

jaws343 · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If they made a PVE version of Imperial City or Cyro I guarantee you PVPers would lose their *** and some would probably quit the game.

Cant be a ganker if everone's a ganker.

Nope, at least I wouldn't, but there is one condition, same as with PvE Cyrodiil. No Alliance Points and Tel Vars for PvE version. That's all. Then you can have your PvE Cyrodiil and IC.

I'd go even further. No rewards at all if this became a PVE only zone. You can complete your quests, explore the zone, grab skyshards and books and fish, but absolutely zero drops from mobs and zero drops from quest turn ins. No Tel Var, AP, Key Frags, gold, boxes, nothing. Don't want to take the actual risk the PvPvE zone poses, you don't deserve any rewards for it.

No rewards? What about the storyline in the zone? You are too focused on the PvP stuff....

Yeah, none. The rewards come with the risk of PVP in the zone. No risk, no rewards.

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

What would it matter to you?

... ZOS shouldn't waste time catering to a handful of players refusing to play a zone as it was designed.

ZOS can waste their time doing whatever they want. Would you be mad at people getting rewards you had to gank and hide to get?

That you had to run off-peak hours to hunt through, or spend time with groups to zerg your way through?

I mean, whats it matter to you? What if they could flip a switch and you'd never be affected by it?

Would you be mad at the skins, polymorphs, pets, and telvar rewards? You can buy those in a trader for gold. Not even step foot in IC.

Some people on these forums see depriving others as their highest calling.

jaws343 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If they made a PVE version of Imperial City or Cyro I guarantee you PVPers would lose their *** and some would probably quit the game.

Cant be a ganker if everone's a ganker.

Nope, at least I wouldn't, but there is one condition, same as with PvE Cyrodiil. No Alliance Points and Tel Vars for PvE version. That's all. Then you can have your PvE Cyrodiil and IC.

I'd go even further. No rewards at all if this became a PVE only zone. You can complete your quests, explore the zone, grab skyshards and books and fish, but absolutely zero drops from mobs and zero drops from quest turn ins. No Tel Var, AP, Key Frags, gold, boxes, nothing. Don't want to take the actual risk the PvPvE zone poses, you don't deserve any rewards for it.

No rewards? What about the storyline in the zone? You are too focused on the PvP stuff....

Yeah, none. The rewards come with the risk of PVP in the zone. No risk, no rewards.

The only thing I might request is say 1/2 or even 1/10th the Tel Var. That would fit the current paradigm without all the interruptions in working through the story, which I have been doing on a couple of characters.

Though I would still ask what is the point of your anger on this? Tel Var is not all that useful.

Taleof2Cities · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Though I would still ask what is the point of your anger on this? Tel Var is not all that useful.

I don't think they're angry ... they're simply pointing out that the rewards for PvP are earned by risking/participating in PvP gameplay.

Salvas_Aren · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So what is the point? Do the people doing this just want lots of AP or maybe TelVar? Do they enjoy causing other players to have a bad time? Something else?

It does make it VERY frustrating, but I am trying to understand the point of this and whether they feel good when they are done or something else.

(This is a real question. I could easily rant, but I am not trying to do that here.)

Are any of you who are here (and will admit it) able to give insight on that behavior?

I did it and admit it. It fills the kill 40 quest for me and earns me a lot of telvar.

dem0n1k · September 2020

Don't think of it as being ganked... think of it as dying nobly in glorious combat

VaranisArano · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If they made a PVE version of Imperial City or Cyro I guarantee you PVPers would lose their *** and some would probably quit the game.

Cant be a ganker if everone's a ganker.

Nope, at least I wouldn't, but there is one condition, same as with PvE Cyrodiil. No Alliance Points and Tel Vars for PvE version. That's all. Then you can have your PvE Cyrodiil and IC.

I'd go even further. No rewards at all if this became a PVE only zone. You can complete your quests, explore the zone, grab skyshards and books and fish, but absolutely zero drops from mobs and zero drops from quest turn ins. No Tel Var, AP, Key Frags, gold, boxes, nothing. Don't want to take the actual risk the PvPvE zone poses, you don't deserve any rewards for it.

No rewards? What about the storyline in the zone? You are too focused on the PvP stuff....

If all people want is to experience the story with no risk, then getting no rewards shouldn't be an issue.

But when it turns out that people do want the rewards after all, then it starts to look more like they want the rewards of Imperial City with none of the PVP risk that ZOS intended.

Saucy_Jack · September 2020

I've said it before, but I tend to just *walk* around IC in my bright red suit. I generally have less than 30 telvar on me at any point in time. If someone gets one step closer to finishing the "kill 40 players" quest killing someone who's waving at them, then ok, I'm glad to help them out. If someone's so desperate for telvar that they'll take the 10 or so off me, then ok, I'm glad to help them out. I know I'll finish the IC daily, even if takes five deaths; in the meantime I'm helping a bunch of people.

Heck, a lot of times after finishing an IC daily I'll go LOOKING for other people to kill me, because that's a faster route back to base to hand in the quest than skulking around trying to get back through the sewers.

Moral of the story: enjoy the kill and relative pittance of telvar you get from me; I'm enjoying your enjoyment.

PizzaCat82 · September 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

[But when it turns out that people do want the rewards after all, then it starts to look more like they want the rewards of Imperial City with none of the PVP risk that I had.

Fixed that for you.

If ZOS decided to make a version of IC that didn't have the risk, maybe they reduced telvar, or key frags, or left everythign as it was...

Then it'd be exactly what they intended, right?

But it wouldn't be fair to you, right?

Nemeliom · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So what is the point? Do the people doing this just want lots of AP or maybe TelVar? Do they enjoy causing other players to have a bad time? Something else?

It does make it VERY frustrating, but I am trying to understand the point of this and whether they feel good when they are done or something else.

(This is a real question. I could easily rant, but I am not trying to do that here.)

Are any of you who are here (and will admit it) able to give insight on that behavior?

Well, there's a couple of reasons.
For me, it's not about the AP. More like a cool feeling of killing more than dieing. Seeing this kind of Kill/Death ratio really encourages me to keep doing it.

The other reason is the tons of TVS I get from killing players. This event made me over 2m gold.

VaranisArano · September 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

[But when it turns out that people do want the rewards after all, then it starts to look more like they want the rewards of Imperial City with none of the PVP risk that I had.

Fixed that for you.

If ZOS decided to make a version of IC that didn't have the risk, maybe they reduced telvar, or key frags, or left everythign as it was...

Then it'd be exactly what they intended, right?

But it wouldn't be fair to you, right?

Hey, next time you've got a counter argument to make, just say it, okay? Don't go putting words in my mouth, please. Thank you.

I don't really view it as a "I had to quest two miles through the risk of PVP uphill both ways" fairness situation, so much as its the way ZOS intended for this content to be played. Particularly in the case of Tel Var, the entire point of that risk/reward currency is that, unlike gold, its risky to farm it. I could go on with other examples of the rewards, but I'll try not to get long winded.

Like you say, sure, ZOS can always change their intent. If ZOS wants to nerf the zone so people can get rewards for less or no risk, they can.

Its not my preferred solution, but they can if they want to. My preferred solution is A) a rewardless zone for questing or B.) a PVE version designed to have separate rewards and achievements so that if you want the PVP rewards you have to take the risk of PVP as intended but you can still get separate rewards for doing the PVE.

I just usually talk about option A first because its really useful for figuring out who's genuinely just wanting to experience the story and who's actually after getting the IC rewards with less risk. Option B would be fine because then ZOS can go through and figure out rewards that match the new playstyle of the changed zone.

PizzaCat82 · September 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

[But when it turns out that people do want the rewards after all, then it starts to look more like they want the rewards of Imperial City with none of the PVP risk that I had.

Fixed that for you.

If ZOS decided to make a version of IC that didn't have the risk, maybe they reduced telvar, or key frags, or left everythign as it was...

Then it'd be exactly what they intended, right?

But it wouldn't be fair to you, right?

Hey, next time you've got a counter argument to make, just say it, okay? Don't go putting words in my mouth, please. Thank you.

I don't really view it as a "I had to quest two miles through the risk of PVP uphill both ways" fairness situation, so much as its the way ZOS intended for this content to be played. Particularly in the case of Tel Var, the entire point of that risk/reward currency is that, unlike gold, its risky to farm it. I could go on with other examples of the rewards, but I'll try not to get long winded.

Like you say, sure, ZOS can always change their intent. If ZOS wants to nerf the zone so people can get rewards for less or no risk, they can.

Its not my preferred solution, but they can if they want to. My preferred solution is A) a rewardless zone for questing or B.) a PVE version designed to have separate rewards and achievements so that if you want the PVP rewards you have to take the risk of PVP as intended but you can still get separate rewards for doing the PVE.

I just usually talk about option A first because its really useful for figuring out who's genuinely just wanting to experience the story and who's actually after getting the IC rewards with less risk. Option B would be fine because then ZOS can go through and figure out rewards that match the new playstyle of the changed zone.

I just want all the PVErs out of IC. If either of those options works for that then that's fine.

Jaraal · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If they made a PVE version of Imperial City or Cyro I guarantee you PVPers would lose their *** and some would probably quit the game.

Cant be a ganker if everone's a ganker.

Nope, at least I wouldn't, but there is one condition, same as with PvE Cyrodiil. No Alliance Points and Tel Vars for PvE version. That's all. Then you can have your PvE Cyrodiil and IC.

I'd go even further. No rewards at all if this became a PVE only zone. You can complete your quests, explore the zone, grab skyshards and books and fish, but absolutely zero drops from mobs and zero drops from quest turn ins. No Tel Var, AP, Key Frags, gold, boxes, nothing. Don't want to take the actual risk the PvPvE zone poses, you don't deserve any rewards for it.

What about the storyline in the zone?

Story line is one of the best in the game, and the Drake of Blades is the best character in the game.

You can finish the zone quest without ever fighting another player, but you will be facing some of the hardest solo PVE fights you will find. The story could be told in a PvE exclusive zone, but you are forgetting that the whole city is being fought for by three different alliances.... including yours. Why would you not want to help your allies be victorious for your Queen or King?

The quest would not be the same without the risk. NPCs (and possibly players) will die helping you be successful in your mission, the least you can do is magically pop back up at your base and avenge their deaths and honor their sacrifice.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · September 2020

its all a mute point, just add to the game, flagging, so if you dont want to pvp

Daemons_Bane · September 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I just want all the PVErs out of IC.

That's pretty aggressive don't you think.?

James-Wayne · September 2020

Not everyone likes to PvP which is ok but I think ZOS should just implement a system where you opt in for PvP if you want to and when you do there are benefits and negatives to that. This should apply across ALL zones that way PvE players can enjoy the content from a story point of view and PvP players can enjoy the content with the thrill that they love.

Both parties win in this situation. Until this happen understand that PvP zones are risk that you need to accept.

agegarton · September 2020

Personally I tend to limit attacking players unawares if they are not at CP level. If they are CP level, I tend to think of them as fair game. I also won't attack a lone player unless he/she comes for me first. I'm happy to let people quest. It's mostly what I'm doing, after all, with a side order of PVP.

But look, here's the thing: Imperial City is a PVP zone. There are two PVP zones in the game - two out of the dozens of zones for PVE. It isn't right or fair to expect PVPers to "ask nicely" before they attack or to just leave players alone.

I'm a decidedly mediocre PVP player, so I roll with the punches or a I join a group. Sometimes I do pretty well, other days I run out of talent and those days are frustrating. But that's Imperial City for you. It's probably my favourite zone because you never know what you're going to get.

It's as advertised

Runaerian · September 2020

I really don't understand why there are complaints about PvP happening in a PvP zone. Isn't that the point?

Playing 10 years WOW on a PvP server I actually find it boring that Cyrodill and IC are the ONLY places in the game where the activities of other players can make the world feel more random and exciting. I WISH this game had dedicated PvP servers with open world PvP.

So to complain about some actual player on player action happening in only two zones out of DOZENS seems a bit petty and silly to me. You have the WHOLE REST OF THE GAME WORLD to quest and play without having to think or be vigilant.

Just leave the area that makes the game more random and interesting to be what it is. If you don't want to fight other players don't go to a PvP zone. Stick to scripted enemies that offer a different challenge and leave those who like the challenge other players present to have the fun they want.

Or am I missing something?

Amorpho · September 2020

It's the nature of the zone, nothing personal. Make sure to carry invisibility pots that grant speed and just keep watching your back. Also, don't run a squishy build! Make sure you can survive a gank, evade and escape

Inaya · September 2020

Runaerian wrote: »

I really don't understand why there are complaints about PvP happening in a PvP zone. Isn't that the point?

Playing 10 years WOW on a PvP server I actually find it boring that Cyrodill and IC are the ONLY places in the game where the activities of other players can make the world feel more random and exciting. I WISH this game had dedicated PvP servers with open world PvP.

So to complain about some actual player on player action happening in only two zones out of DOZENS seems a bit petty and silly to me. You have the WHOLE REST OF THE GAME WORLD to quest and play without having to think or be vigilant.

Just leave the area that makes the game more random and interesting to be what it is. If you don't want to fight other players don't go to a PvP zone. Stick to scripted enemies that offer a different challenge and leave those who like the challenge other players present to have the fun they want.

Or am I missing something?

If the skyshards and PVE achievements were removed from the PVP zones I'd never step foot in them.

Runaerian · September 2020

So maybe see getting those shards and achievements as a different challenge that you're not forced to do but you want to do because it's there. The primary purpose of those zones is to allow players the freedom to interact in ways they cannot anywhere else in the game. The pve objectives add some variety to the zone and maybe encourage pve players to explore the PvP experience a bit more. But PvP is really the main reason most people are there.

No one's forcing you to step foot in that zone.

VaranisArano · September 2020

Inaya wrote: »

Runaerian wrote: »

I really don't understand why there are complaints about PvP happening in a PvP zone. Isn't that the point?

Playing 10 years WOW on a PvP server I actually find it boring that Cyrodill and IC are the ONLY places in the game where the activities of other players can make the world feel more random and exciting. I WISH this game had dedicated PvP servers with open world PvP.

So to complain about some actual player on player action happening in only two zones out of DOZENS seems a bit petty and silly to me. You have the WHOLE REST OF THE GAME WORLD to quest and play without having to think or be vigilant.

Just leave the area that makes the game more random and interesting to be what it is. If you don't want to fight other players don't go to a PvP zone. Stick to scripted enemies that offer a different challenge and leave those who like the challenge other players present to have the fun they want.

Or am I missing something?

If the skyshards and PVE achievements were removed from the PVP zones I'd never step foot in them.

They aren't PVE skyshards or achievements. They are intended to come with the risk of PVP.

ZOS_ConnorG · September 2020

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jaws343 · September 2020

James-Wayne wrote: »

Not everyone likes to PvP which is ok but I think ZOS should just implement a system where you opt in for PvP if you want to and when you do there are benefits and negatives to that. This should apply across ALL zones that way PvE players can enjoy the content from a story point of view and PvP players can enjoy the content with the thrill that they love.

Both parties win in this situation. Until this happen understand that PvP zones are risk that you need to accept.

They technically already have an opt in system for PVP. In order to enter into a PVP zone, you have to go through your menu and opt in to port to that zone. In order to duel, you have to accept or offer a duel request.

Jaraal · September 2020

Amorpho wrote: »

Also, don't run a squishy build! Make sure you can survive a gank, evade and escape

This is an important point.

Camping Molag Bal in the center of the sewers last night, and a bombblade picked the wrong 48k HP guy to be the detonator for the bomb! Needless to say, he got burned down real quick. Had he picked a squishier target, he would have done a lot more damage. That said, my build could still do enough damage to loot all the bosses. There are some great guides you can watch or read out there that will help make your PvPvE experience a lot more successful and a lot less stressful.

A little more survivability can be just enough to keep you alive until the cavalry rides in to save you.

Linaleah · September 2020

Runaerian wrote: »

I really don't understand why there are complaints about PvP happening in a PvP zone. Isn't that the point?

Playing 10 years WOW on a PvP server I actually find it boring that Cyrodill and IC are the ONLY places in the game where the activities of other players can make the world feel more random and exciting. I WISH this game had dedicated PvP servers with open world PvP.

So to complain about some actual player on player action happening in only two zones out of DOZENS seems a bit petty and silly to me. You have the WHOLE REST OF THE GAME WORLD to quest and play without having to think or be vigilant.

Just leave the area that makes the game more random and interesting to be what it is. If you don't want to fight other players don't go to a PvP zone. Stick to scripted enemies that offer a different challenge and leave those who like the challenge other players present to have the fun they want.

Or am I missing something?

yes. WoW had pvp and PVE servers from the start. yes there were some people who tried to exploit certain issues with how the game worked by trying to get you to flag on pve server before blizzard fixed those issues (took them long enough - you can still get flagged accidentally, but never through player trying to stand in your AoE), BUT... you could easily avoid pvp by simply... rolling on a pve server. and now wow took this even further with addition of warmode.

and before you say anything, yes, I am aware of wintergrasp and ashran (not saying tol barad, cause tol barad is only flagged for pvp during the battle times, the rest of the time, you can just do dailies there without getting flagged) wintergrasp and Asharan do not have any story quests in them. they do not have delves. wintergrasp has mini raid, BUT.. WoW also has flight and you can fly up to the raid while avoiding pvp entirely.

so that is what you are missing. but hey... if ESO introduces something like warmode? I would LOVE that. I wouldn't use it, but its a gain for both those of us who dislike pvp (cause now we can avoid it in IC and Cyrodil) and those of you who are wanting pvp in the rest of the world? can have it. its a win/win.

Tranquilizer · September 2020

Amorpho wrote: »

It's the nature of the zone, nothing personal. Make sure to carry invisibility pots that grant speed and just keep watching your back. Also, don't run a squishy build! Make sure you can survive a gank, evade and escape

Or be the ganker yourself.

I did the IC dailies on three chars before the event started, so that I could turn in one quest a day. But when I turned in the first quest on day one of the event I saw that I got about 1000 TV per Quest and not the mere 200 you get outside of the event.
So I said *** it, put on my big boy pants, dusted off my old stamblade and invested in new armor and weapons to make it a halfway viable gankblade.

What should I say, I had fun. I did all 6 dailies every day of the event with that toon. Sneaking fast (vamp stage 1 and Ring of the Wild Hunt) I did them in under 1 hour, and on top I got some TV from ganking enemy players. I lost a lot of TV because my ganking failed more often than not, but I had fun and I learned a lot. The last days were noticeably better than the first ones.

Runaerian · September 2020

but hey... if ESO introduces something like warmode? I would LOVE that. I wouldn't use it, but its a gain for both those of us who dislike pvp (cause now we can avoid it in IC and Cyrodil) and those of you who are wanting pvp in the rest of the world? can have it. its a win/win.

I support this 100%. I'm not against pve people being able to avoid PvP. My point in this thread is that i just don't think it's fair to take issue with people killing you in the only two zones you can PvP in when the whole rest of the game is designed around PvE.

Having a warmode option would be a good compromise whereby nobody would have to compromise. We'd all get to enjoy the whole game world with the play environment we want.