Rapids is gated behind a medical condition: Anxiety

Sgrug · August 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Buy up some cheap sets of cowards gear and hold down that shift key. Wild hunt ring is an option along with Orc sprint passive.

and sta players could have always used a resto staff. I am not sure what your point is here.

Eiagra · August 2020

Hey folks, just a reminder that the scope of this thread are players who experience anxiety when engaging in PvP behaviors, the impact the change to Rapids has had, and methods for these players to succeed.

This is not a space to dismiss a person's mental condition, especially if it's not a condition you experience yourself. Mental health is a sensitive topic. Please keep discussion mindful, respectful, and productive. Thank you.

For those following the spirit of this topic -- thank you again for your insights and suggestions!

Kwoung · August 2020

abigfishy wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Now I think the PvP issue for many is more that it feel much more real and personal the fighting other people rater than wiping over an over in an dungeon.

I'm wondering: Is it the interaction with people itself which causes the problem? Or is it rather knowing that there are jerks who might verbally abuse you? (Or rather: Not knowing if you might run into such people?)

Honestly, Undaunted Pledges with a PUG are the most toxic thing this game offers, everything else is trivial, including PVP.

I have done hundreds of undaunted pledges with a PUG, the top issue there is fake tanks/healers. Toxic players are about one a week. I have done some battlegrounds and toxic players there are about one per two games.

I have actually encountered zero toxic players in PVP and I PVPed almost daily for 4 months and am alliance rank 24 now. The trick, don't read zone chat and mark yourself offline if you don't want tells from the other side. Which if you are a PVEer out there, you won't get tells anyways, because the few idiots that would send them only do so after you beat them. Tons of ways to get alliance points without ever engaging in combat with other players.

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

Sgrug wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Buy up some cheap sets of cowards gear and hold down that shift key. Wild hunt ring is an option along with Orc sprint passive.

and sta players could have always used a resto staff. I am not sure what your point is here.

No, they just went to Cyrodiil and didn’t avoid the grind. If PvP is really that scary to OP I provided some alternatives to rapids.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

[Quoted Post Removed]

Anyone who lacks empathy should consider uninstalling and staying away from games with other people, seriously. They're saying they have anxiety over one part of the game not the whole game.

markulrich1966 · August 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Buy up some cheap sets of cowards gear and hold down that shift key. Wild hunt ring is an option along with Orc sprint passive.

and sta players could have always used a resto staff. I am not sure what your point is here.

No, they just went to Cyrodiil and didn’t avoid the grind. If PvP is really that scary to OP I provided some alternatives to rapids.

those were not alternatives, but nonsense.

It is like telling someone "use darloc brae instead of New Moon Accolyte". If you don't understand why this is nonsense, you have either not understood the meaning of sets or are trolling. As every advanced player knows about sets, I assume the latter...

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

He wants to go fast so I gave him sets that make him go faster is nonsense? My characters can hit the speed cap easily but okay bud you’re the expert. So what is your alternative besides making ANOTHER thread about the same subject?

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

You can AFK in BGs and still get AP. You can also repair walls in Cyrodiil. There are ways to get AP and avoid any action.

Yeah, but AFKing in BGs is kind of a thing that will just *** on people who actually want to do battlegrounds. And I guess this is the sort of thing it's going to force a lot of people to do.

markulrich1966 · August 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

He wants to go fast so I gave him sets that make him go faster is nonsense? My characters can hit the speed cap easily but okay bud you’re the expert. So what is your alternative besides making ANOTHER thread about the same subject?

how is replacing your combat set (that you need for your overland quests) with a fast movement set an alternative?

You must drop your most important resource just to run faster? This IS nonsense when you simply could use a skill instead.

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

So you have no alternative? Okay bud. You know you can have multiple sets of gear in your inventory swapping gear/skills isn’t nonsense players do it every day. And if you chose the right platform(PC) there is a great addon calling dressing room that lets you swap gear in a single key stroke. But I get the impression most of the characters who lost rapids were crafting mules who don’t go much further than the loop. So who needs combat gear when you never see combat?

markulrich1966 · August 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

So you have no alternative? Okay bud. You know you can have multiple sets of gear in your inventory. And if you chose the right platform(PC) there is a great addon calling dressing room that lets you swap gear in a single key stroke. But I get the impression most of the characters who lost rapids were crafting mules who don’t go much further than the loop. So who needs combat gear when you never see combat?

I play xbox, so no addon. The alternative simply is to revert the idiotic switch of vigor and rapid.
There is no other good alternative, hence so many are angered.

Casul · August 2020

Go to sub 50, put LFG in chat, join a emp AP farming group, get level 6 assault, put tyfg in chat, leave.

It's literally that easy.

Eiagra · August 2020

It may help with understanding to know that some scenarios, such as conflict with humans, can be a source of anxiety. In such scenarios, PvE is okay because it's known there is just AI behind the monster, but for PvP there's a person on the other side and it can feel like a personal attack -- i.e. that they are out to get you (not your character in the game -- but you).

The reality of the scenario isn't what is actually perceived, or there is no way to communicate it. For example, a mother might play a friendly game of Gwent with her son, and there's no conflict because of familiarity and trust. That same player might experience anxiety playing Gwent online or in a tournament with a stranger because of a lack of familiarity during what is a form of PvP.

And this is just a single facet -- everyone's brain is different, so there may be widely varying scenarios that cause one to feel anxiety in Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds. Discussing positive, mindful, and pragmatic solutions that can be applied to those who experience anxiety in these scenarios can go far to helping these players enjoy the game. No single solution may apply to all such players, so a broad set of insights is valuable here.

Sylvermynx · August 2020

Jeez Louise. I do get that those of you who got Rapids the previous way, and have now lost it, aren't happy.

However, I have never (in over two years, with at this point 56 active characters) NEEDED Rapids for any damn thing. I have it available on all my mains (because they're the ones that pick up the freebie AP daily rewards) - and I've never used it. Not once. It takes a slot - and since ESO is so cheap with slots, it would never occur to me to put a skill like Rapids there when I could be using something that would keep my character alive, or kill some mob faster. And beyond that, there's no reason to rush for anything in a game. Games are to have fun - rushing around isn't my idea of fun (yeah, I get that other's ideas of fun aren't mine.... and very much vice versa....)

The main thing (eh... I'm going out on a limb and calling it the DEFINING thing) about MMOs is that they change. And mostly, they change in ways that many people don't like. If you're not flexible enough to adapt, why are you playing an MMO in the first place? I learned that the hard way in WoW and RIFT (WoW from 2006 to 2013, RIFT from 2013 to 2016).

The point (for me) in playing an MMO is that the game is NOT STATIC. Things change, all the time, over and over. If you can't adapt, then an MMO may not be the game for you. And that isn't pointed at anyone in particular, it's just a general statement.

Actually, looking back on my years in WoW and RIFT.... so far, ESO is MUCH less likely to cause me heartburn with changes. And I am absolutely 100% serious about that. Considering Cataclysm in WoW..... Yeah. 100% serious.

Psiion · August 2020

Greetings all,

After removing a few non-constructive posts from this thread, we would like to remind everyone that Flaming is against our Forum's Community Rules, as stated below:

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VaranisArano · August 2020

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jeez Louise. I do get that those of you who got Rapids the previous way, and have now lost it, aren't happy.

However, I have never (in over two years, with at this point 56 active characters) NEEDED Rapids for any damn thing. I have it available on all my mains (because they're the ones that pick up the freebie AP daily rewards) - and I've never used it. Not once. It takes a slot - and since ESO is so cheap with slots, it would never occur to me to put a skill like Rapids there when I could be using something that would keep my character alive, or kill some mob faster. And beyond that, there's no reason to rush for anything in a game. Games are to have fun - rushing around isn't my idea of fun (yeah, I get that other's ideas of fun aren't mine.... and very much vice versa....)
.

If I recall correctly, you don't PVP.
Rapids is essential to getting around in the vast, open spaces of Cyrodiil in a timely manner. It's absolutely been the difference between getting to a fight in time vs getting there after the battle is won or lost countless times on my PVP characters.

Will I adapt on my low PVP rank characters?
Yeah.
Am I going to be frustrated when I miss out on fights because I no longer have Rapids?
Absolutely.

Even in PVE, not having Rapids on certain alts is going to make chasing Dragons or Dolmens or World Boss groups so much more frustrating than before. You may not have NEEDED rapids yourself, but that doesn't invalidate anyone being annoyed at having their quality of life speed taken away when it has a very good chance of causing them to miss out on timed events, even in PVE.

JoeCapricorn · August 2020

@ZOS_KageW

So when are the devs going to comment on this issue? As I said before, this is only going to continue to fester. I hate to see the ESO community tear itself apart over this.

The fact is Rapid Maneuver was a basic part of a lot of players' QOL repertoire for the past six years and four months, now suddenly it is locked behind a wall of PVP grind that not everyone has the will to do. I really hope that on one of these threads we get some official acknowledgement that maybe this kind of change was NOT A GOOD <REDACTED> IDEA.

Talking about how this is now locked behind a wall of anxiety is absolutely a valid point. Lots of people are still mostly stuck at home because of what is going on in the world. Elder Scrolls Online is a means to escape that reality, and sometimes that is as simple as fishing in a video game or farming mats. Maybe they are leveling up a new character or collecting skyshards. If it involves getting on a mount and going from A to B, Rapids is probably involved, and I know a few people who never went into Cyrodiil for any other reason than to just get Rapids.

PVP is not a relaxing part of the game at all. There is frustration involved. I don't always like to do it. Maybe that's why I am only really ranked up on my main. All of my other characters are at Assault 2 or 3, with one at 4.

SidraWillowsky · August 2020

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Eiagra wrote: »

Hey folks.

I wanted to open discussion for the recent changes to Rapids that has caused some vocal outcry among the community, with the topic being medical in nature. Specifically: the percentage of players who avoid PvP behaviors because it causes or worsens anxiety. This percentage may not be very large, but that doesn't mean these needs are invalid.

Prior to the change, players who engaged in avoidant behavior to keep anxiety levels from spiking had the option to simply perform the introductory quests or skip them entirely and still get sufficient AP to unlock Rapids. The areas were safe (barring glitches) so a player that wants to gain Rapids to help with overland traversal in other parts of the game can usually acquire it without issue.

After the change, players now must engage in PvP behaviors to effectively gain the ability. I've observed some suggestions that indicate there may be ways to gain the ability without directly engaging in those behaviors (such as intentionally throwing Battlegrounds matches), but I'm not yet sure of their efficacy. It's technically possible to unlock them on alts with a 3000 crown purchase in the Crown Store, but you need to have fully unlocked them on another character first (forcing the player to engage in PvP behaviors in addition to having a monetary cost).

This discussion sets the precedent that Rapids is used for overland traversal, not for PvP -- in other words, it's used significantly in PvE as well.

For those players who experience anxiety when performing PvP behaviors, what are your thoughts on the change? Does the change prevent you from gaining the ability on your primary character due to the PvP engagement requirements? For your alts? Have you found a way to gain the ability in a manner that circumvents situations that cause anxiety? Did this turn into a wall, or were you able to break through it? If distress was caused, to what degree did you experience it? If you broke through it, do you have any tips to help other players who may have a similar condition?

I know this is an emotionally-charged topic, but let's try keep this discussion mindful, respectful, productive, and stay within the scope of what impact it has had on a specific segment of the community with a specific medical condition.

I always knew that people who hate pvp tend to have anxiety, but people always said i was wrong.
Anxiety is a problem YOU should overcome, don't expect the world to be shaped around your mental health problem.

Nah, they avoid PvP because of attitudes like this.

abigfishy · August 2020

Kwoung wrote: »

abigfishy wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Now I think the PvP issue for many is more that it feel much more real and personal the fighting other people rater than wiping over an over in an dungeon.

I'm wondering: Is it the interaction with people itself which causes the problem? Or is it rather knowing that there are jerks who might verbally abuse you? (Or rather: Not knowing if you might run into such people?)

Honestly, Undaunted Pledges with a PUG are the most toxic thing this game offers, everything else is trivial, including PVP.

I have done hundreds of undaunted pledges with a PUG, the top issue there is fake tanks/healers. Toxic players are about one a week. I have done some battlegrounds and toxic players there are about one per two games.

I have actually encountered zero toxic players in PVP and I PVPed almost daily for 4 months and am alliance rank 24 now. The trick, don't read zone chat and mark yourself offline if you don't want tells from the other side. Which if you are a PVEer out there, you won't get tells anyways, because the few idiots that would send them only do so after you beat them. Tons of ways to get alliance points without ever engaging in combat with other players.

If you are a "L33T" PvP player which rank 24 sounds like and have chat blocked then you wont get much abuse. If you are new and don't know what to do get ready [snip]

[edited for inappropriate content]

nud3_voxel · August 2020

I don't see why that should be anyone else's problem. If you get anxious playing a video game honestly don't play it. You don't need Rapids to complete the pve content. This is some next level QQ. Yes the changes makes life slightly harder but no one forces you to use that skill.Some PVE players don't want to do PVP to get some stuff and PVP players don't want to do PVE stuff for gear. That's MMORPG life.

SilverBride · August 2020

I honestly think the significance of "rapids" is being greatly exaggerated. Let's keep this in perspective. Its a skill that makes you move faster. You can play quite well without it, but it's still attainable for those who want it. It will just take a little longer to get it now.

As far as having anxiety over having to PvP to get it, it's in the Alliance War > Assault skill tree, so of course you have to PvP to get it. It may be convenient to use in other situations, but it's still a PvP skill.

Ackwalan · August 2020

How many people here complaining about getting abusive whispers actually get those whispers. The only time I get whispers is after I curb stomp someone or after a spectacular fight. I never get whispers from groups or solo players that roll just over me.

mochizx · August 2020

just make rapids level 3 and everyone will be happy, right?

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

Ackwalan wrote: »

How many people here complaining about getting abusive whispers actually get those whispers. The only time I get whispers is after I curb stomp someone or after a spectacular fight. I never get whispers from groups or solo players that roll just over me.

I got a hate whisper from someone in a big zerg group that rolled over me on a toon once funnily they blocked me right after the whisper so I couldn't respond.

dcam86b14_ESO · August 2020

You've had 5 years to get the skill you needed. They also gave ample time before the patch to catch up as well.
It's a non issue imo.

newtinmpls · August 2020

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

You can AFK in BGs and still get AP. You can also repair walls in Cyrodiil. There are ways to get AP and avoid any action.

Getting to the keep to repair the walls requires rapids. Otherwise it's all been and done by the time you get there.

OldManJim · August 2020

Don't you love people who say "mental issues are all in your head"...

I play ESO to escape the real world & to help tune out for a while. Using rapids helps me get to where I want to go faster. I don't mind zooming around the map to pick up crafting surveys etc. But I won't do it if I have to do it at a crawl.

When it comes to PvP most of the time I'm dead before I even realise I'm being attacked. I suck at it & then when you add the Australia lag it's even worse. I don't want to have to spend 5 minutes on a slow horse (even at rank 60) just to get ganked. It's not fun. It's a waste of my time.

So when all the knuckle-draggers get in here and say suck it up...

Zenimax needs to get in here and shut this crap down. Your silence is deafening and you're just sitting back with the popcorn watching the community rip itself to shreds. The forum moderators refuse to pass the info up the chain. Devs & community reps refuse to listen.

So how's this to the Zenimax staff: DO YOUR FRACKING JOBS AND PUT AN END TO THIS ***. You lot threw this hand grenade in, so clean up your mess.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

If you want to degrade others issues and claim they don't have real issues and put it aside like so many do with people with mental health issues which happens even outside of this game people pretending others mental health issues aren't important then no you don't have empathy. It's in fact a very selfish self centered attitude and if you're going to be like that you should be the one to leave the game cause clearly you can't play nice with others. I mean someone being that nasty to another human being shouldn't be in contact with others especially in the online world where many do have mental health issues.

thorwyn · August 2020

I have empathy for every mental and physical issue. In fact, I'm suffering from social anxiety myself and went through a depression during my life. That being said: this is a computer game. And the designers are making design decisions. It's simply impossible to create a game like ESO and take each and every medical or mental condition into consideration, be it anxiety, arthosis, gambling addiction, phobias, deafness, blindness or lacking reflexes because of old age.
We can discuss the reasoning behind the rapid maneuvre change from a design pov and criticize ZOS for their decisions, but bringing individual conditions into the discussion will get us nowhere.

Shadowproject · August 2020

thorwyn wrote: »

I have empathy for every mental and physical issue. In fact, I'm suffering from social anxiety myself and went through a depression during my life. That being said: this is a computer game. And the designers are making design decisions. It's simply impossible to create a game like ESO and take each and every medical or mental condition into consideration, be it anxiety, arthosis, gambling addiction, phobias, deafness, blindness or lacking reflexes because of old age.
We can discuss the reasoning behind the rapid maneuvre change from a design pov and criticize ZOS for their decisions, but bringing individual conditions into the discussion will get us nowhere.

I agree completely with this.

I also run a guild in ESO that is specifically tailored to people with various life circumstances that may make the game or social interaction more difficult for them (anxiety, phobias, emotional disorders, etc.) It's really difficult to make a game that will be accessible to everyone, so it's incumbent on the community to make places that can help other players feel safe(r), more at home, and more comfortable doing content that may be triggering when done alone.

tl;dr: There's people in ESO who do care and will help you with things that may feel inaccessible otherwise. Yelling at ZoS about something like this solves nothing.