Addons and the TOS... I'm confused, isn't Lazy Writ addon automating writs? How is it allowed?
-
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.
Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.
Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.
I don't know you.
I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.
I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.PizzaCat82 wrote: »If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?
A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.
Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.
Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.
They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.
Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.
Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.
Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.
edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms
So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU
@PizzaCat82
I pointed out here that Zos has in fact Zos has clarified things and even has a ToU for add-ons on top of noting Zos adjusts the API quarterly showing they purposefully manage what information we can access for add-ons.
I also asked if you could name an MMORPG on console that can use actual add-ons like what we have on PC vs mods like we can use for single player TES games. Are there some that fit this bill?
FFXIV Lets you use Macros that are very similar to things like Lazy Writ crafter in game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6lm65cUm1k
On console too.
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.
Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.
Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.
I don't know you.
I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.
I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.PizzaCat82 wrote: »If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?
A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.
Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.
Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.
They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.
Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.
Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.
Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.
edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms
So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU
@PizzaCat82
I pointed out here that Zos has in fact Zos has clarified things and even has a ToU for add-ons on top of noting Zos adjusts the API quarterly showing they purposefully manage what information we can access for add-ons.
I also asked if you could name an MMORPG on console that can use actual add-ons like what we have on PC vs mods like we can use for single player TES games. Are there some that fit this bill?
FFXIV Lets you use Macros that are very similar to things like Lazy Writ crafter in game.
On console too.
By definition, that is not an add-on and it is irrelevant if they permit the use of macros in some instances as this discussion concerns add-ons.0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.
Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.
Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.
I don't know you.
I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.
I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.PizzaCat82 wrote: »If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?
A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.
Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.
Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.
They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.
Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.
Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.
Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.
edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms
So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU
@PizzaCat82
I pointed out here that Zos has in fact Zos has clarified things and even has a ToU for add-ons on top of noting Zos adjusts the API quarterly showing they purposefully manage what information we can access for add-ons.
I also asked if you could name an MMORPG on console that can use actual add-ons like what we have on PC vs mods like we can use for single player TES games. Are there some that fit this bill?
FFXIV Lets you use Macros that are very similar to things like Lazy Writ crafter in game.
On console too.
By definition, that is not an add-on and it is irrelevant if they permit the use of macros in some instances as this discussion concerns add-ons.
An macro that automates the game the same way an addon uses the API in ESO.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
If it was something the devs wanted to have on the base game it would have been implemented by now.
it literally took them 5 years to implement multicraft and search function. it does NOT mean they didn't want it in game until recently. it means it takes them this long to implement new features and I reiterate. without addons paving the way? it may have NEVER been implemented at all.
Why do you think the addons "paved the way"?
If a needed feature (like a search option) didn't have a third party alternative that would mean more players would be clamoring for one. In my experience, people tend to take the easier way out if they can. So if there is someone else doing the work for them - they're going to feel less inclined to do the work themselves.Edited by Jeremy on August 23, 2020 3:05AM1 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The best defense of Lazy Writ is this -
It only takes actions that are have been made available by Zeni as being usable API components for addon developers. It doesn’t add functions or automation that aren’t released by the devs themselves.
When Zeni does have a problem with how addons function, they change the API. They have done this in the past with addons. They have locked down components of the combat messages, guild functions, and sales data, specifically because they wanted to prohibit some addon functionality (shout-out here to Miat who single handedly caused a big API overhaul by making his addon public).
In short, if Zeni didn’t want the Lazy Writ to do what it does they would plug the API, like they’ve done many times in the past.Edited by Reverb on August 23, 2020 3:14AMBattle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.
Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.
Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.
I don't know you.
I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.
I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.PizzaCat82 wrote: »If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?
A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.
Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.
Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.
They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.
Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.
Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.
Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.
edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms
So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU
@PizzaCat82
I pointed out here that Zos has in fact Zos has clarified things and even has a ToU for add-ons on top of noting Zos adjusts the API quarterly showing they purposefully manage what information we can access for add-ons.
I also asked if you could name an MMORPG on console that can use actual add-ons like what we have on PC vs mods like we can use for single player TES games. Are there some that fit this bill?
FFXIV Lets you use Macros that are very similar to things like Lazy Writ crafter in game.
On console too.
By definition, that is not an add-on and it is irrelevant if they permit the use of macros in some instances as this discussion concerns add-ons.
An macro that automates the game the same way an addon uses the API in ESO.
Again, you indicated other games on console allow the use of add-ons which is why I asked you to provide the name of an MMORPG on console that did. Since you have not then it is clear there seems to be a reason why MMOPRPGs on console do not permit the use of add-ons and macros are not add-ons regardless if they can perform a similar function.
Thanks for demonstrating my point.
'
And as I already pointed out that Zos has clarified the use of add-ons, and constantly does so, the premise that the use of the lazy writ crafter add-on being cheating or against the ToS has been laid to rest as false once and for all.
Glad I could help by providing these facts2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.
Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.
Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.
I don't know you.
I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.
I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.PizzaCat82 wrote: »If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?
A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.
Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.
Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.
They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.
Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.
Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.
Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.
edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms
So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU
@PizzaCat82
I pointed out here that Zos has in fact Zos has clarified things and even has a ToU for add-ons on top of noting Zos adjusts the API quarterly showing they purposefully manage what information we can access for add-ons.
I also asked if you could name an MMORPG on console that can use actual add-ons like what we have on PC vs mods like we can use for single player TES games. Are there some that fit this bill?
FFXIV Lets you use Macros that are very similar to things like Lazy Writ crafter in game.
On console too.
By definition, that is not an add-on and it is irrelevant if they permit the use of macros in some instances as this discussion concerns add-ons.
An macro that automates the game the same way an addon uses the API in ESO.
Again, you indicated other games on console allow the use of add-ons which is why I asked you to provide the name of an MMORPG on console that did. Since you have not then it is clear there seems to be a reason why MMOPRPGs on console do not permit the use of add-ons and macros are not add-ons regardless if they can perform a similar function.
Thanks for demonstrating my point.
'
And as I already pointed out that Zos has clarified the use of add-ons, and constantly does so, the premise that the use of the lazy writ crafter add-on being cheating or against the ToS has been laid to rest as false once and for all.
Glad I could help by providing these facts
In Sony's eyes, whats the different between an add-on and a mod?Edited by PizzaCat82 on August 23, 2020 3:25AM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.
Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.
Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.
I don't know you.
I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.
I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.PizzaCat82 wrote: »If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?
A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.
Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.
Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.
They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.
Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.
Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.
Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.
edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms
So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU
@PizzaCat82
I pointed out here that Zos has in fact Zos has clarified things and even has a ToU for add-ons on top of noting Zos adjusts the API quarterly showing they purposefully manage what information we can access for add-ons.
I also asked if you could name an MMORPG on console that can use actual add-ons like what we have on PC vs mods like we can use for single player TES games. Are there some that fit this bill?
FFXIV Lets you use Macros that are very similar to things like Lazy Writ crafter in game.
On console too.
By definition, that is not an add-on and it is irrelevant if they permit the use of macros in some instances as this discussion concerns add-ons.
An macro that automates the game the same way an addon uses the API in ESO.
Again, you indicated other games on console allow the use of add-ons which is why I asked you to provide the name of an MMORPG on console that did. Since you have not then it is clear there seems to be a reason why MMOPRPGs on console do not permit the use of add-ons and macros are not add-ons regardless if they can perform a similar function.
Thanks for demonstrating my point.
'
And as I already pointed out that Zos has clarified the use of add-ons, and constantly does so, the premise that the use of the lazy writ crafter add-on being cheating or against the ToS has been laid to rest as false once and for all.
Glad I could help by providing these facts
In Sony's eyes, whats the different between an add-on and a mod?
What? So I now speak for Sony?
In the context of ESO it is pretty clear what the difference is and the ToS and Add-on ToU make that very clear that one is permitted and the other is not. We have spoken to that fact extensively here.
Hypothetical questions are pointless and irrelevant and asking me to speak for the Sony Corp is in that ballpark.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
If it was something the devs wanted to have on the base game it would have been implemented by now.
it literally took them 5 years to implement multicraft and search function. it does NOT mean they didn't want it in game until recently. it means it takes them this long to implement new features and I reiterate. without addons paving the way? it may have NEVER been implemented at all.
Why do you think the addons "paved the way"?
If a needed feature (like a search option) didn't have a third party alternative that would mean more players would be clamoring for one. In my experience, people tend to take the easier way out if they can. So if there is someone else doing the work for them - they're going to feel less inclined to do the work themselves.
because without being shown alternative - most people either learn to cope or move on to other games. historically. addons have paved the way to base game improvements and NOT just for ESO either. because they don't just show how something can improve - they show which features would be actualy popular with players and therefore, are worth working on to implement, and which features are too niche so the development time could be spent elsewhere. I mean... ZoS in particular HIRES addon makers sometimes, because of what their addons contributed to the game and then we end up with more features added to base game.
believe it or not - plenty of people on PC who either don't want to or are unable to run addons becasue it would impact their performance too much. they clamor for these features to be base game as well. because they can see that these features make the game better.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Also, ZOS can implement solutions to commonly wanted features at a much deeper level. Add-on creators, working within the constraints of what the API allows, often have to resort to work-arounds or inefficient solutions because they can only touch a few things at the surface. ZOS can do these things in a better way, and add more features than add-ons.
ZOS' multicraft solution, parts of their guildstore search, the housing precision edit - all of these are more efficient than their add-on predecessors. (They also suffer from ZOS' perpetual struggle with creating intuitive UI solutions. Most of them have UI quirks that are kind of baffling.)
So they definitely have taken common ideas from popular addons and implemented them into the game. There are just many more factors to be taken into consideration for ZOS' UI department than just "it's popular".
That said, I don't think they'll implement something like the LWC, at least not in the same way the add-on works. The add-on doesn't really add any features, it just streamlines the process. Make it easier to find the things you need to craft? That's definitely possible. Add a "craft writs" button? Probably not going to happen.0 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe soon, you'll have an add-on that logs you in daily, do all your writs/master writs, do riding training, pledges, farm resources and run for crafting surveys - while you are still sleeping or at work. IMAGINE how much time your would save!?
But to not be just "baiting", this is exactly where add-ons gets you. Discussion about how much "automation" is ok or not, and this is exactly the reason why I went back to console after a brief period on PC. I don't want to be part of the same "time saving" and "automation" race that we have in society. Here profession after profession becomes a curiosity, all in the name of "convenience" and "saving time" - here it's because of what? Too lazy to play the game you are playing, for the sake of what? Showing off armor styles, skins and mounts at the Mournhold wayshrine? Really...2 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Errr... on the contrary, I use these convenience add-ons and time savers so I can actually play the game, instead of going through tedious grinding routines that serve no real gameplay purpose.5 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.
Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.
Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.
I don't know you.
I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.
I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.PizzaCat82 wrote: »If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?
A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.
Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.
Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.
They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.
Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.
Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.
Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.
edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms
So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU
@PizzaCat82
I pointed out here that Zos has in fact Zos has clarified things and even has a ToU for add-ons on top of noting Zos adjusts the API quarterly showing they purposefully manage what information we can access for add-ons.
I also asked if you could name an MMORPG on console that can use actual add-ons like what we have on PC vs mods like we can use for single player TES games. Are there some that fit this bill?
FFXIV Lets you use Macros that are very similar to things like Lazy Writ crafter in game.
On console too.
By definition, that is not an add-on and it is irrelevant if they permit the use of macros in some instances as this discussion concerns add-ons.
An macro that automates the game the same way an addon uses the API in ESO.
Again, you indicated other games on console allow the use of add-ons which is why I asked you to provide the name of an MMORPG on console that did. Since you have not then it is clear there seems to be a reason why MMOPRPGs on console do not permit the use of add-ons and macros are not add-ons regardless if they can perform a similar function.
Thanks for demonstrating my point.
'
And as I already pointed out that Zos has clarified the use of add-ons, and constantly does so, the premise that the use of the lazy writ crafter add-on being cheating or against the ToS has been laid to rest as false once and for all.
Glad I could help by providing these facts
In Sony's eyes, whats the different between an add-on and a mod?
Lets assume two people achieved the same time at 100m sprint. One was training hard and following the diet and the second was doing similar things but also helped himself with some extra steroids injections.
In Your eyes what's the difference between them both ? Do You think there is no difference because they both get the same time at 100m sprint ?
Same as in sport if there is certain set of rules that needs to be followed then everything and everyone that was not following them will be disqualified despite getting same results as the others.Edited by Juhasow on August 23, 2020 10:29AM0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This whole conversation is making my head hurt.
Lazy Writ is fine, it’s been around so long now that if the Zos team had an issue with it, they would hobble it.
There are no mods on consoles because the consoles don’t allow it. Period.
Maybe it’s a memory allocation issue. Maybe a processor issue. Maybe it’s a content approval issue. Whatever. If you want mods on console contact Sony and Microsoft about it. It’s their call.Edited by BlueRaven on August 23, 2020 1:27PM0 -
pauld1_ESO✭✭✭✭I sincerely hope this is a call to give consoles the same thing but not take it away from PC because you would have my support.
But if it is something else I would say you chose your gaming platform, not us. And I hope you don't get it because....karma.
Edited by pauld1_ESO on August 23, 2020 2:08PM0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
Its allowed because it uses the API to automate the process and do all the work for you and its always been like this and they haven't changed it, which makes it fine and totally not against the spirit of the game.
The reason we dont have Add-ons on consoles is because Sony and Microsoft will literally explode if we dont. Console players obviously only pay half of what PC gamers pay, and other games that have addons or mods simply don't exist on console so like Fallout 4 and Skyrim.Edited by PizzaCat82 on August 23, 2020 2:07PM0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maybe soon, you'll have an add-on that logs you in daily, do all your writs/master writs, do riding training, pledges, farm resources and run for crafting surveys - while you are still sleeping or at work. IMAGINE how much time your would save!?
But to not be just "baiting", this is exactly where add-ons gets you. Discussion about how much "automation" is ok or not, and this is exactly the reason why I went back to console after a brief period on PC. I don't want to be part of the same "time saving" and "automation" race that we have in society. Here profession after profession becomes a curiosity, all in the name of "convenience" and "saving time" - here it's because of what? Too lazy to play the game you are playing, for the sake of what? Showing off armor styles, skins and mounts at the Mournhold wayshrine? Really...
That addon you mention will never exist because ZOS doesn't allow that.
Just because you can think of a hypothetical doesn't meant that there is any chance of it happening.
I have no idea what cosmetics have to do with this. I have zero interest in cosmetics. I mostly do writs to level crafting on alts in a cost-effective manner. Even with the addon they are a boring time-suck. At the moment, I am not doing writs because they are such a big waste of time.
I'm not feeling your philosophical aside. I don't want efficiency. I want time to sit and listen to all the dialogue from NPC when doing quests. I even want to hear what all the other NPCs have to say, even if there is no marker over their heads for progressing the quest. What I am looking for is less repetitive button pressing and less busy work. At work, I get to use creativity to automate things so that less-skilled resources can just click buttons while following a standard process. I want the addon because nothing can make writs interesting, so the best you can do is get it over quick.2 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm genuinely surprised there isn't more "PS vs. console" fighting in this topic...Edited by Cadbury on August 23, 2020 2:45PM"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
[Quoted post was removed]
Please keep posts on topic and constructive. No one's looking for LWC to go away, just to have it not be needed anymore.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 23, 2020 3:25PM0 -
Jack-0✭✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »ZoS restricts what can and cannot be done thru the API. Lazywrit isn’t breaking the TOS.
This. If zos didn’t want it to happen they wouldn’t include the ability to do so with their api.
Honestly OP, just play pc, or accept that because you choose to play console you are also choosing to restrict your access to quality of life improvements. Pc games have a long-lasting tradition of supporting player mods, console games don’t. This sadly means developers have come to rely on the modders to make improvements to their base games instead of designing better base interfaces themselves.Edited by Jack-0 on August 23, 2020 3:43PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
If it was something the devs wanted to have on the base game it would have been implemented by now.
it literally took them 5 years to implement multicraft and search function. it does NOT mean they didn't want it in game until recently. it means it takes them this long to implement new features and I reiterate. without addons paving the way? it may have NEVER been implemented at all.
Why do you think the addons "paved the way"?
If a needed feature (like a search option) didn't have a third party alternative that would mean more players would be clamoring for one. In my experience, people tend to take the easier way out if they can. So if there is someone else doing the work for them - they're going to feel less inclined to do the work themselves.
because without being shown alternative - most people either learn to cope or move on to other games. historically. addons have paved the way to base game improvements and NOT just for ESO either. because they don't just show how something can improve - they show which features would be actualy popular with players and therefore, are worth working on to implement, and which features are too niche so the development time could be spent elsewhere. I mean... ZoS in particular HIRES addon makers sometimes, because of what their addons contributed to the game and then we end up with more features added to base game.
believe it or not - plenty of people on PC who either don't want to or are unable to run addons becasue it would impact their performance too much. they clamor for these features to be base game as well. because they can see that these features make the game better.
I have no problems believing you that there are plenty of people on PC who either don't want or are unable to run addons. I'm one of those players myself and still remember the hell of trying to find the right crafting motif for sale without a proper search feature. It was something I groaned about frequently, especially on these forums. I just think it would have probably happened sooner had there not been a third party alternative the developers could point to.
Anyway; I think I understand your argument and I would even be inclined to agree with it if we were talking about an addon that added something innovative to the game that the developers had perhaps not considered. But when it comes to such basic functions as a search feature I just have a hard time believing it took an addon to convince them that needed to be in the game.Edited by Jeremy on August 23, 2020 4:08PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
Its allowed because it uses the API to automate the process and do all the work for you and its always been like this and they haven't changed it, which makes it fine and totally not against the spirit of the game.
The reason we dont have Add-ons on consoles is because Sony and Microsoft will literally explode if we dont. Console players obviously only pay half of what PC gamers pay, and other games that have addons or mods simply don't exist on console so like Fallout 4 and Skyrim.
You did get the first part correct. However, Fallout 4 and Skyrim are not the same type of game ESO is which is where the difference lies.Edited by idk on August 23, 2020 3:55PM1 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I must admit I'm too lazy to read all 5 pages, but as I get it:- Addons can automate stuff via API. API is controlled by ZOS and that's why automation via addons is OK
- Macros automate external input which isn't controlled by ZOS which makes macros not OK
- Addons on consoles require approval from Sony/MS and some kind of cooperation between them and ZOS. Whether they couldn't reach an agreement or there are technical limitation we are unlikely to ever know
1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
Its allowed because it uses the API to automate the process and do all the work for you and its always been like this and they haven't changed it, which makes it fine and totally not against the spirit of the game.
The reason we dont have Add-ons on consoles is because Sony and Microsoft will literally explode if we dont. Console players obviously only pay half of what PC gamers pay, and other games that have addons or mods simply don't exist on console so like Fallout 4 and Skyrim.
That is the problem. You expected a certain type of answer and posted in such a manner to get your expected response. Worse you looked at the actual responses twisted and exaggerated them to fit some narrative you created. Many people explained precisely and politely why add-ons are allowed and how they differ from macros. Very few (if any) people are against consoles getting the same access to these features add-ons provide.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."10 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
Its allowed because it uses the API to automate the process and do all the work for you and its always been like this and they haven't changed it, which makes it fine and totally not against the spirit of the game.
The reason we dont have Add-ons on consoles is because Sony and Microsoft will literally explode if we dont. Console players obviously only pay half of what PC gamers pay, and other games that have addons or mods simply don't exist on console so like Fallout 4 and Skyrim.
That is the problem. You expected a certain type of answer and posted in such a manner to get your expected response. Worse you looked at the actual responses twisted and exaggerated them to fit some narrative you created. Many people explained precisely and politely why add-ons are allowed and how they differ from macros. Very few (if any) people are against consoles getting the same access to these features add-ons provide.
Very much this, completely.2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
Its allowed because it uses the API to automate the process and do all the work for you and its always been like this and they haven't changed it, which makes it fine and totally not against the spirit of the game.
The reason we dont have Add-ons on consoles is because Sony and Microsoft will literally explode if we dont. Console players obviously only pay half of what PC gamers pay, and other games that have addons or mods simply don't exist on console so like Fallout 4 and Skyrim.
That is the problem. You expected a certain type of answer and posted in such a manner to get your expected response. Worse you looked at the actual responses twisted and exaggerated them to fit some narrative you created. Many people explained precisely and politely why add-ons are allowed and how they differ from macros. Very few (if any) people are against consoles getting the same access to these features add-ons provide.
Very much this, completely.
The problem is that people who wanted to shove a certain response down all of our throats seemed to take over the thread.
Its exactly what I expected and happens all too often around here.1 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
Its allowed because it uses the API to automate the process and do all the work for you and its always been like this and they haven't changed it, which makes it fine and totally not against the spirit of the game.
The reason we dont have Add-ons on consoles is because Sony and Microsoft will literally explode if we dont. Console players obviously only pay half of what PC gamers pay, and other games that have addons or mods simply don't exist on console so like Fallout 4 and Skyrim.
That is the problem. You expected a certain type of answer and posted in such a manner to get your expected response. Worse you looked at the actual responses twisted and exaggerated them to fit some narrative you created. Many people explained precisely and politely why add-ons are allowed and how they differ from macros. Very few (if any) people are against consoles getting the same access to these features add-ons provide.
Boom, there you go.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.3 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And lastly, no one really addressed the main point. An addon that does all the work seems a bit too much but since it follows the API its fine.
Did the devs intend for people to be able to finish any writ by simply walking up to the right crafting table without pushing more than a single button?
I highly doubt it.Edited by PizzaCat82 on August 23, 2020 7:33PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
Its allowed because it uses the API to automate the process and do all the work for you and its always been like this and they haven't changed it, which makes it fine and totally not against the spirit of the game.
The reason we dont have Add-ons on consoles is because Sony and Microsoft will literally explode if we dont. Console players obviously only pay half of what PC gamers pay, and other games that have addons or mods simply don't exist on console so like Fallout 4 and Skyrim.
every time I try to give you a benefit of a doubt, you go and say something like this. and double down. at this point I have no chance to assume that you are NOT trying to achieve anything positive for consoles by using troll tactics and instead just trolling because you can.
and no, the addon is NOT doing all the work. you don't get to craft just by walking up to a station, you have to come up to a correct station, with correct materials and you DO have to push a button.Edited by Linaleah on August 23, 2020 7:15PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I've pretty much gotten the answer I expected from the forums.
Its allowed because it uses the API to automate the process and do all the work for you and its always been like this and they haven't changed it, which makes it fine and totally not against the spirit of the game.
The reason we dont have Add-ons on consoles is because Sony and Microsoft will literally explode if we dont. Console players obviously only pay half of what PC gamers pay, and other games that have addons or mods simply don't exist on console so like Fallout 4 and Skyrim.
every time I try to give you a benefit of a doubt, you go and say something like this. and double down. at this point I have no chance to assume that you are NOT trying to achieve anything positive for consoles by using troll tactics and instead just trolling because you can.
and no, the addon is NOT doing all the work. you don't get to craft just by walking up to a station, you have to come up to a correct station, with correct materials and you DO have to push a button.
I refuse to believe changes only happen because we're nice and polite on the forums. It just sounds like you're looking for an excuse and latching on to any small thing you can find.0
This discussion has been closed.