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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/684716

Addons and the TOS... I'm confused, isn't Lazy Writ addon automating writs? How is it allowed?

  • PizzaCat82
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    especially if you think that precrafting is an addon only thing
    Where did I say pre-craftinng was an addon thing?

    I said in one of my first posts it takes me 6 hours (because I also turn in and sell things, while crafting 9 items for the week on each character)


    Lets be honest here. How does the lazy writ addons NOT trivialize daily writs? How does any addon that does all the work for you not make writs insanely easy to complete for multiple characters?

    Did the devs want this to be the case? Did they really want it to be that simple of a thing? I thought the whole point of a MMO was to prolongue the experience so that people don't burn through the content.

    because you can trivialize it WITHOUT the addon. I have explained to you how. is it as convenient? no its not. its kinda like equivalent of playing with vs without ps plus. but that doesn't mean there are no ways to do it.

    and if it takes you this long becasue you are doing other things? then stop blaming writs for doing other things taking extra time.

    the point is to prolong the EXPERIENCE, not the tedium.

    I'm not saying that console experience needs improvement. it does. in part because this game originally was NOT designed for consoles and only ported later - it creates some issues. but... you. are STILL. shifting the blame. where. it does NOT. BELONG.

    Spare me. The only reason we ever got guild searching and multi-crafting was because people like me kept complaining on the forum.

    We were met with the same arguments at that time as well. Ultimately there's only one group responsible for my gameplay experience and thats the ESO Devs.

    I really doubt you were met with the same arguments if you were asking for a mod to be worked into the base game. You and others are all but arguing that lazy crafter is cheating. We are telling you it is not cheating and offers no advantage to game play. If you were arguing that the features should be added to the base game there would be no serious opposition. Players on PC were right there with you on the multi-crafting and guild searching being base game. It means less add-ons to worry about for us and not being monsters we are all for console players getting the same experience (as much as possible) as we get.

    I posted a link earlier to me politely asking for LWC to be added to console. The replies were NOT in agreement (4 pages)
  • ZaroktheImmortal
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    Writ crafter you still have to go to crafting station and have all the materials needed it just automatically crafts said items for you with your materials. Damage parse it's not a cheat or anything and it's only showing what damage they're doing. Not sure what guild add ons do.
  • ZaroktheImmortal
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    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82, they are going to defend it until their fingers bleed and say it's ok but for the add-on but heaven forbid they include the function into the base game for console players. The only people I hear that 36-54 players are the ones who do for writs on PC. Never heard of anyone on console doing it because it just takes to much time.

    It's not just one add-on but the combination of several

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xnj6TGFeZ4

    Be safe and have fun :)

    thread just in the last 2 months about this
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526626/daily-writs-get-a-job-instead-consoles-vs-pc-vs-lazy-writ-crafter/p1

    What they really need is to find a way for console versions to allow mods if possible.
  • Integral1900
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    Simple

    The vast majority of players in this game do not play group dungeons or trials and do not do PVP.

    Once they have done the quests they have little reason to log in, this is one of the main reasons that the population drops so much between chapters. Logging in to do daily crafting writs is by far the most common reason to open the game at all most of the time. The problem however is that doing writs is inherently soul crushingly boring. All this addon does is shorten the tedium.

    We get our gold and ZOS gets player activity, that activity means more people potentially looking at the cash shop.

    If they stop this add-on or reduce the rewards from writs the result will be a massive drop in daily play counts. I can say for certain that virtually my entire guild would simply stop playing between the chapters as their would be nothing they wanted to do.
    Edited by Integral1900 on August 22, 2020 5:14AM
  • Katlefiya
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    It’s a Marco banning Marcos in an mmorpg would kill most add-ons and drop Quality of life though the floor.

    So, a Mannimarco? /s

  • SidraWillowsky
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    If you're going to argue with me on something I've made tens of millions of gold doing, I'm going to need a video. Because I'm tired of posts telling me how to craft.

    I know how to craft. I have 18 crafters. I have 18 Master Crafters.

    I can show you how long the PS4 loading screens take. I can show you how long the "crafting" takes when pre-crafting for the week.

    But don't treat me like I don't know how to craft. I've been doing it since they had veteran levels in Wrothgar.


    Also a friendly reminder that "You would be happier switching to PC" both neglects the millions of gold I've spent on crown items AND basically insinuates that PC players deserve easy crafting while console players dont.

    If you're unhappy with the time it takes to do writ stuff (understandable), why not advocate for ZOS to implement something similar for consoles vs. rallying to get the PC add-on removed? You're cutting off your nose to spite your face by approaching things from that angle.
  • Tyreal1974
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Ohh you’re on console. Well you chose the wrong platform for QoL that’s for certain. Why do you care what happens on other platforms?

    I'm also on PC. I have multiple accounts. No Addons though.

    Lazywrit is great, but I don't see how they allow it honestly. It basically turns the daily writs into daily turn ins for free stuff.

    While I'd love that on console, I just can't get over how that sort of defeats the purpose of daily writs. Aren't they supposed to be tedious?
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »

    I posted a link earlier to me politely asking for LWC to be added to console. The replies were NOT in agreement (4 pages)
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Lets be honest here. How does the lazy writ addons NOT trivialize daily writs? How does any addon that does all the work for you not make writs insanely easy to complete for multiple characters?

    Did the devs want this to be the case? Did they really want it to be that simple of a thing? I thought the whole point of a MMO was to prolongue the experience so that people don't burn through the content.

    So now I am confused. You talk about how much you dislike addons that make writs easier, then go on to say you think it would be great for console players but defeats the purpose of how the Dev's envisioned writ crafting should be, then follow up with a link to another post of yours asking for easier writ crafting, and then have another post defending tedious writ crafting.

    Out of curiosity what is it that you are asking for? I am kind of lost because you have gone back and forth with wanting and not wanting a easier process for writs. Plus you play on PC so if you want to craft writs easier just use the addon of your choice....or don't if you want it to take longer (your choice). I you want to prolong the experience, go to a workstation and craft your writ, walk/run around your house several times (to simulate travel) and then turn in your writ.


    *edited for clarity

    Edited by Tyreal1974 on August 22, 2020 6:09AM
  • kargen27
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    especially if you think that precrafting is an addon only thing
    Where did I say pre-craftinng was an addon thing?

    I said in one of my first posts it takes me 6 hours (because I also turn in and sell things, while crafting 9 items for the week on each character)


    Lets be honest here. How does the lazy writ addons NOT trivialize daily writs? How does any addon that does all the work for you not make writs insanely easy to complete for multiple characters?

    Did the devs want this to be the case? Did they really want it to be that simple of a thing? I thought the whole point of a MMO was to prolongue the experience so that people don't burn through the content.

    because you can trivialize it WITHOUT the addon. I have explained to you how. is it as convenient? no its not. its kinda like equivalent of playing with vs without ps plus. but that doesn't mean there are no ways to do it.

    and if it takes you this long becasue you are doing other things? then stop blaming writs for doing other things taking extra time.

    the point is to prolong the EXPERIENCE, not the tedium.

    I'm not saying that console experience needs improvement. it does. in part because this game originally was NOT designed for consoles and only ported later - it creates some issues. but... you. are STILL. shifting the blame. where. it does NOT. BELONG.

    Spare me. The only reason we ever got guild searching and multi-crafting was because people like me kept complaining on the forum.

    We were met with the same arguments at that time as well. Ultimately there's only one group responsible for my gameplay experience and thats the ESO Devs.

    I really doubt you were met with the same arguments if you were asking for a mod to be worked into the base game. You and others are all but arguing that lazy crafter is cheating. We are telling you it is not cheating and offers no advantage to game play. If you were arguing that the features should be added to the base game there would be no serious opposition. Players on PC were right there with you on the multi-crafting and guild searching being base game. It means less add-ons to worry about for us and not being monsters we are all for console players getting the same experience (as much as possible) as we get.

    I posted a link earlier to me politely asking for LWC to be added to console. The replies were NOT in agreement (4 pages)

    Saw the link. You are somewhat misrepresenting the initial post and the responses. You started off confrontational right near the top and it escalated quickly after that. A better start might have been to say the add-on in question is a good quality of game play solution and would there be any way it could be made a part of the base game. Instead you right away made it an us vs them situation. Worse your response to either an obvious troll or someone that didn't get what was being said made it even more confrontational. Would have been best if you ignored the 2nd reply in that thread. Instead you let that one dictate the conversation.
    A key to a successful conversation in these forums is knowing who to ignore.

    And I still think what you are asking for would be a nice addition to the base game. No idea how complicated that would be to add. Railing against add-ons that obviously ZoS has no problem with is not the way to achieve your goal.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Hallothiel
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    As a console player, I agree. I think it is sort of cheating, as it is a faster way to get stuff you can then use or sell. This is especially true when it gives reward boxes during event.

    And I know I’ll get shouted at, but part of playing the game is having to chose what you want/need to do, and how to allocate your time. And this just feels.....wrong.

    (And don’t get me started on combat help ones. Bah.)

    I also know that pc players will be wibbling about how it is impossible to play without these add ons but console players seem to manage just fine........
  • idk
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    The lazy writ crafter is no different than the add-ons that save skill and gear sets and allow us to change to them with a press of the button. They do not impact combat in any manner so they do not have any effect on competitiveness in the game.

    It is really that simple and no grey area to speak of.
  • Linaleah
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    Hallothiel wrote: »
    As a console player, I agree. I think it is sort of cheating, as it is a faster way to get stuff you can then use or sell. This is especially true when it gives reward boxes during event.

    And I know I’ll get shouted at, but part of playing the game is having to chose what you want/need to do, and how to allocate your time. And this just feels.....wrong.

    (And don’t get me started on combat help ones. Bah.)

    I also know that pc players will be wibbling about how it is impossible to play without these add ons but console players seem to manage just fine........

    we are not saying its impossible. we are saying its more fun. and the reasonable ones of us - would be MORE THEN HAPPY if some or all of the functionality of lazy writ crafter was made part of base game. because having fewer addons to run and keep updated is a pretty nice.
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • zaria
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Why the personal vendetta against LazyWrit PizzaCat82?

    No vendetta. If its ok then its ok, I'm just trying to get an idea of what is "too automated" and what is ok to have done for you.

    ZOS is already ok with having all the information, including how long the cast times are, at your fingertips. Thats fine! That makes you a better player. Guild info makes guild masters better! No fees because the addon did the work and you all sold enough this week.

    Makes me wonder what kind of information ZOS would not be ok being shown to the player via add-ons.
    User interface mods are supported in the api mods uses, stuff like dressing room who let you swap gear and bars with an click. Lazy writ and trading mods also use this api.

    You can not do anything with the game outside of that the api does, however you can have outside the game actions like communicating with eternal sites for trading data or stuff like crown crate stats
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • PizzaCat82
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    Coatmagic wrote: »
    [Quoted post was removed]

    [snip]
    No idea how complicated that would be to add. Railing against add-ons that obviously ZoS has no problem with is not the way to achieve your goal.

    Because making noise is the only way to get things to change. Politeness doesn't get replies.

    [Edited to remove Baiting and Reference to Mod Action]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 22, 2020 3:43PM
  • MyKillv2.0
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    And doesn't the guild add-on collect information on users without permission, what they sell? Or Parse, if they're in a group with a damage parse add-on?

    [snip]

    [Edited to remove Baiting]

    Obviously, the answer is to nerf add ons. :D:D:D
  • AinSoph
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    Lazy Writ Crafter has existed for 4 years, this one random who just now thinks it's against ToS won't change anything.
  • Ashtaris
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    Add-ons like Lazy Writ Crafter use the approved ZOS API. If they had a problem with what people were doing with the add-on, they would remove calls and other functions that would prevent such use. You are confusing add-on’s with Macros which are entirely different. The last time I checked, LWC didn’t improve my combat capabilities :) Sure, it might allow me to do my writs faster, but thats what add-on’s are all about, improving the UI beyond what ZOS is able or willing to do.
  • idk
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?

    A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.

    Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.

  • PizzaCat82
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Coatmagic wrote: »
    I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.

    Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.

    Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.

    I don't know you.

    I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.

    I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.
    idk wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?

    A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.

    Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.

    Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.

    They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.

    Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.
  • idk
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Coatmagic wrote: »
    I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.

    Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.

    Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.

    I don't know you.

    I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.

    I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.
    idk wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?

    A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.

    Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.

    Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.

    They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.

    Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.

    Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.

    Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.

    edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms

    So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU
    Edited by idk on August 22, 2020 4:45PM
  • x48rph
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    So automation is ok as long as it requires you to still be there?

    Isn't all automation against the TOS? Or is it just depending on what ZOS considers "too automated" this week?

    Users are forbidden from using any unapproved third party applications, programs, scripts or any other game modifying mechanic used to change the game play experience on a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax, including the distribution of said programs via ZeniMax services, sites, forums, communities, etc. This would include but is not limited to using or distributing speed hacks, aim bots, mouse controllers, spam bots, automated game play devices, etc. Third party applications are defined as any program, application or script written by an individual, company, corporation, or private party not employed by or contracted to perform services by ZeniMax.

    I believe this doesn't apply in that way because ZOS allows the use of the public API to create addons. In essence, your not running an unapproved script/program/whatever to modify the game, the game is running the script for you in a manner governed (by the API) and approved by ZOS. This only applies to unapproved stuff such as cheat engine, bot programs, ect...
  • idk
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    x48rph wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    So automation is ok as long as it requires you to still be there?

    Isn't all automation against the TOS? Or is it just depending on what ZOS considers "too automated" this week?

    Users are forbidden from using any unapproved third party applications, programs, scripts or any other game modifying mechanic used to change the game play experience on a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax, including the distribution of said programs via ZeniMax services, sites, forums, communities, etc. This would include but is not limited to using or distributing speed hacks, aim bots, mouse controllers, spam bots, automated game play devices, etc. Third party applications are defined as any program, application or script written by an individual, company, corporation, or private party not employed by or contracted to perform services by ZeniMax.

    I believe this doesn't apply in that way because ZOS allows the use of the public API to create addons. In essence, your not running an unapproved script/program/whatever to modify the game, the game is running the script for you in a manner governed (by the API) and approved by ZOS. This only applies to unapproved stuff such as cheat engine, bot programs, ect...

    You are correct and it should seem rather obvious that Zos permits the use of the API for the creation of add-ons. They even asked and encouraged the player population to create the add-ons.

    More specifically is that clause does not apply to add-ons as they are approved third-party applications that Zos has actually encouraged and controls what they can do via the API.

    So that entire clause is moot when talking about the lazy writ crafter.
    Edited by idk on August 22, 2020 5:51PM
  • heaven13
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    vestahls wrote: »
    There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

    There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

    The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

    How pre-crafting take 5 seconds for each item you can craft in bulk now without add-one so you can make say 15 daggers in the same time it take to make 1

    You have no idea the time it can take on console with 18 master crafting alts. The loading screens alone add up to probably an hour. There's at least 9 "processing" times each of the 5 (ench, jewelry, blacksmith, cloth, wood) that add up each character. Even with Multi-craft it takes forever.

    Not to mention the 70 or 80 inventory spaces it takes up on every character. Craft bags dont help with gear.

    Even using the app the loading screens still happen if you are running more than one character. The app only works to automate the actions at one crafting station. The player then has to manually go to the next station. The only time difference that matters in the difference when you access the crafting station until the time you close it. On 18 characters it might be an extra twenty minutes?

    Yes, but then we just have to get the writs, run to the stations, and turn them in each day. You can't tell me this doesn't save time over crafting for 7 days worth of daily writs.

    There a video, from @ BenevolentBowd (I believe). Where he showed that if you have the inventory space (and that is an IF), pre-crafting 6 days or 9 days worth of writs is FASTER than using LWC each day.

    You can't count loading screens. That is a system limitation.

    And then there's Master Writ crafter addon.. oof. That's at least 30 minutes a day on them. Imagine doing them in 5 minutes just by running back and forth in your guild hall.

    lol why are you running back and forth to your guild hall? You can do ALL of them at once, without Writ Worthy. I did, for a long time. Just note done what you need to make, go make them all, then go to Rolis and select one crafting writ per type and accept quest, turn in, rinse and repeat. You're making more trouble than you need if you're accepting a quest, going to make the item, going to turn it in, and then accepting the next one.
    PC/NA
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    IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS
  • Tandor
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Banana wrote: »
    Come join us on PC. You can use it to?

    I am on PC already. But I craft on both accounts. I just don't see why its not automating when it literally does the work of crafting for you.

    If its ok, why is it not on Console?

    I get that addons help fill gaps in the game that improve quality of life. Like the mass construction and deconstruct, and guild trader searching..

    But if this automates too much, they'll never port it to consoles and those users will never get those QOL updates.

    Add-ons for consoles have to make it pass Microsoft and Sony and with a game like ESO it’s not worth their time to focus it. You take the number of add-on for the game and extra computer power and server lag that adds plus the fact that ESO is far from a console selling game it’s low on the Fs given for console list

    You can't just dismiss something as "oh consoles good luck have fun" especially if having it disabled on the PC would cause a huge fit.

    Console players are not second class citizens. We're more like Oregon, where we get things, just a few months after you guys.

    This seems like something that the devs should take a real hard look at and give it some serious thought.

    I’m not saying console players are an lesser. But this is not a ZoS problem that they can fix Sony and Microsoft make their own rules and move at their own speed. It’s why PC always has more add-ons / mods and release updates on PC faster then Consoles they have to go through a second round of testing and approval on console.

    To me a lot of add-one should be in the base game.

    That's part of the reason I don't like addons being allowed in games. They promote developer apathy and needed features that should be in the game aren't included because they rely instead on third parties to fill the gap.

    This game has a lot of that - especially when it comes to making its economy work efficiently. Though at least they did finally add a search feature. It took a few years, but I have to give them credit for that.

    The reason for that is the history of modding in the TES games. It was a prerequisite of any online TES game that the default UI should be very basic, allowing for those players who wanted more to apply the same modding approach to the game as they had to its TES predecessors. I also think it's in part because they hadn't really thought through the trading system, hence opening it up early on from the even more restricted guild stores that it launched with. Unfortunately this approach was based entirely on the PC version, and wasn't accepted by the console providers for their versions.
  • heaven13
    heaven13
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    Hallothiel wrote: »
    As a console player, I agree. I think it is sort of cheating, as it is a faster way to get stuff you can then use or sell. This is especially true when it gives reward boxes during event.

    And I know I’ll get shouted at, but part of playing the game is having to chose what you want/need to do, and how to allocate your time. And this just feels.....wrong.

    (And don’t get me started on combat help ones. Bah.)

    I also know that pc players will be wibbling about how it is impossible to play without these add ons but console players seem to manage just fine........

    we are not saying its impossible. we are saying its more fun. and the reasonable ones of us - would be MORE THEN HAPPY if some or all of the functionality of lazy writ crafter was made part of base game. because having fewer addons to run and keep updated is a pretty nice.

    Absolutely agree. I've been an advocate for a long time for things that are available on PC through addons (Kyoma's Global Achievements, Crafted Potions, Advanced Filters, etc) to be added to base game functionality. These are all just quality of life improvements to make playing less of a chore.

    As @SidraWillowsky said, railing against addons because "if console can't have it, no one should" is just petty, childish behavior.
    PC/NA
    Mountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of Death
    Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile

    vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRG
    Meet my characters :
    IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    Hallothiel wrote: »
    As a console player, I agree. I think it is sort of cheating, as it is a faster way to get stuff you can then use or sell. This is especially true when it gives reward boxes during event.

    And I know I’ll get shouted at, but part of playing the game is having to chose what you want/need to do, and how to allocate your time. And this just feels.....wrong.

    (And don’t get me started on combat help ones. Bah.)

    I also know that pc players will be wibbling about how it is impossible to play without these add ons but console players seem to manage just fine........

    If we could play across platforms you would be correct that the add-on gives an unfair advantage. As it is now how fast a player can do something in game on the PC has no effect at all for consoles.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    idk wrote: »
    The lazy writ crafter is no different than the add-ons that save skill and gear sets and allow us to change to them with a press of the button. They do not impact combat in any manner so they do not have any effect on competitiveness in the game.

    It is really that simple and no grey area to speak of.

    Those combat layouts of gear makes running dungeons/trials way easier. Not much console players I have known swap gear between bosses. Run what you brung thru the entire trial. I’m sure the high end guilds most likely do this though.
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
    Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'
  • PizzaCat82
    PizzaCat82
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    heaven13 wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    Hallothiel wrote: »
    As a console player, I agree. I think it is sort of cheating, as it is a faster way to get stuff you can then use or sell. This is especially true when it gives reward boxes during event.

    And I know I’ll get shouted at, but part of playing the game is having to chose what you want/need to do, and how to allocate your time. And this just feels.....wrong.

    (And don’t get me started on combat help ones. Bah.)

    I also know that pc players will be wibbling about how it is impossible to play without these add ons but console players seem to manage just fine........

    we are not saying its impossible. we are saying its more fun. and the reasonable ones of us - would be MORE THEN HAPPY if some or all of the functionality of lazy writ crafter was made part of base game. because having fewer addons to run and keep updated is a pretty nice.

    Absolutely agree. I've been an advocate for a long time for things that are available on PC through addons (Kyoma's Global Achievements, Crafted Potions, Advanced Filters, etc) to be added to base game functionality. These are all just quality of life improvements to make playing less of a chore.

    As @SidraWillowsky said, railing against addons because "if console can't have it, no one should" is just petty, childish behavior.

    Well luckily I don't have to convince the mighty forum warriors of anything other than that my post is worthy of coming in here and commenting on.

    And on that note it seems I'm very good at my job.
  • idk
    idk
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    Kalik_Gold wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    The lazy writ crafter is no different than the add-ons that save skill and gear sets and allow us to change to them with a press of the button. They do not impact combat in any manner so they do not have any effect on competitiveness in the game.

    It is really that simple and no grey area to speak of.

    Those combat layouts of gear makes running dungeons/trials way easier. Not much console players I have known swap gear between bosses. Run what you brung thru the entire trial. I’m sure the high end guilds most likely do this though.

    All true. However, consoles and PC do not compete with each other.

  • Wyrd88
    Wyrd88
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    So, console plebs SOSNOOLEY once again and complaining about LazyCrafter? That's something new, I'd say.
    803f9cc8863fb2f16c4d75d944c182e1a4e702d5.jpg?1535159351
    Edited by Wyrd88 on August 23, 2020 2:24AM
  • idk
    idk
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    idk wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Coatmagic wrote: »
    I know this poster; left a guild because of this poster.

    Sounds to me like you are simply annoyed that your console account has no access to the QoL features of PC.

    Trolling is a way of life for some I guess.

    I don't know you.

    I can be both curious as to why some addons that do the work for you are allowed, and envious that there's no plans to bring them to everyone.

    I don't see how that's trolling or asking for different things.
    idk wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?

    A little fact. The API does not permit the creation of an add-on to automate going through a zone up to each resource. This point would be more akin to an addon that moved the character to the writ boards to pick up the writs, then moved the character to the various crafting stations to craft the writs. That is something that Zos does not permit so it is incorrect to try to draw a comparison between the lazy writ crafter and botts as what seems to be the attempt in the question above.

    Sorry, but lazy writ crafter is legitimate and not a bannable offense as seems to be the drive OP is making here.

    Thats fine. I don't know what the API allows and what the API does not allow. If ESO Devs have a hard line "If you can do it with the API then its fine" then its fine.

    They should probably clarify in their terms of use but I'm sure they keep that vague to catch edge cases.

    Maybe they should allow some addons via console. other games do it, and it would greatly improve the QOL of all players.

    Zos has clarified many times starting with when the API was first added to the game in early 2014, pre-launch, and every time they have made changes to the API. Every single major update has changed the API.

    Further, Zos really has no reason to not permit add-ons for consoles so it would stand to reason that something else is in play such as MS or Sony not permitting them. You suggest other console games do have add-ons yet I am only aware of mods, not add-ons that can affect how the game actually plays or they are single-player games. Maybe you can name an MMORPG that has actual add-ons like what we have on PC.

    edit https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms

    So Zos has actually clarified something with a specific Addon ToU

    @PizzaCat82

    I pointed out here that Zos has in fact Zos has clarified things and even has a ToU for add-ons on top of noting Zos adjusts the API quarterly showing they purposefully manage what information we can access for add-ons.

    I also asked if you could name an MMORPG on console that can use actual add-ons like what we have on PC vs mods like we can use for single player TES games. Are there some that fit this bill?
This discussion has been closed.