Addons and the TOS... I'm confused, isn't Lazy Writ addon automating writs? How is it allowed?

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

And doesn't the guild add-on collect information on users without permission, what they sell? Or Parse, if they're in a group with a damage parse add-on?

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Dusk_Coven · August 2020

Probably because they don't see daily writs as being unbalancing or competitive in the same say as exploiting/cheating PvP or PvE for rare rewards and achievements.
It's little different from seeing people automate mass deconstruction -- and then ultimately implementing that feature.

Daily Writs needs automation because that's clearly what people want to avoid grind -- and so Console can be on equal quality of life with PC.
http://gq-game-mods.blogspot.com/2020/07/eso-crafting-writs-need-an-overhaul.html

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

And doesn't the guild add-on collect information on users without permission, what they sell? Or Parse, if they're in a group with a damage parse add-on?

I guess there's a large grey area there.

For Lazy Writ it’s not automated you still have to go to the station and interact with it, it just fires off a macro which is allowed.

Automatic play is like bots you walk away and it plays by itself that’s not how Lazy Writs work.

Guild sells are visible in the guild tab the add on just makes it easier the guild tab just records buying and selling you can sort it and the add-on lets you sort the info is there for you.

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

No, you see I still have to walk over to the bench and click it. That’s not automated and within the TOS. Good try.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

No, you see I still have to walk over to the bench and click it. That’s not automated and within the TOS. Good try.

Ummm yes that’s how that works the rest is just a Marco to ban that you would be saying that Marcos are bad and need to be banned. Automatic would be you or the add on going to the board getting the quest, doing the crafting and turning itself automatic means you can go AFK and the game is being played by itself this is not that.

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If I made an addon that ran through a zone and mined every resource but required me to click a specific wayshrine that would be against the TOS, right?

Yes cause you can walk around and it still running if you do that with Lazy Writ you will come back to your character just standing there at the station you left them at with no change

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

So automation is ok as long as it requires you to still be there?

Isn't all automation against the TOS? Or is it just depending on what ZOS considers "too automated" this week?

Users are forbidden from using any unapproved third party applications, programs, scripts or any other game modifying mechanic used to change the game play experience on a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax, including the distribution of said programs via ZeniMax services, sites, forums, communities, etc. This would include but is not limited to using or distributing speed hacks, aim bots, mouse controllers, spam bots, automated game play devices, etc. Third party applications are defined as any program, application or script written by an individual, company, corporation, or private party not employed by or contracted to perform services by ZeniMax.

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

Why the personal vendetta against LazyWrit PizzaCat82?

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Why the personal vendetta against LazyWrit PizzaCat82?

No vendetta. If its ok then its ok, I'm just trying to get an idea of what is "too automated" and what is ok to have done for you.

ZOS is already ok with having all the information, including how long the cast times are, at your fingertips. Thats fine! That makes you a better player. Guild info makes guild masters better! No fees because the addon did the work and you all sold enough this week.

Makes me wonder what kind of information ZOS would not be ok being shown to the player via add-ons.

vestahls · August 2020

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

vestahls wrote: »

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

So automation is ok as long as it requires you to still be there?

Isn't all automation against the TOS? Or is it just depending on what ZOS considers "too automated" this week?

Users are forbidden from using any unapproved third party applications, programs, scripts or any other game modifying mechanic used to change the game play experience on a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax, including the distribution of said programs via ZeniMax services, sites, forums, communities, etc. This would include but is not limited to using or distributing speed hacks, aim bots, mouse controllers, spam bots, automated game play devices, etc. Third party applications are defined as any program, application or script written by an individual, company, corporation, or private party not employed by or contracted to perform services by ZeniMax.

The way the add-on works is like a short marco that fires off without you setting up marcos it’s not at all close to automatic. To ban it would be pointless as anyone with a gaming mouse can just program the Marco themselves and then it would be the same thing.

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

The way the add-on works is like a short marco that fires off without you setting up marcos it’s not at all close to automatic. To ban it would be pointless as anyone with a gaming mouse can just program the Marco themselves and then it would be the same thing.

But if you don't do anything.... Ok now I'm confused again.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

How pre-crafting take 5 seconds for each item you can craft in bulk now without add-one so you can make say 15 daggers in the same time it take to make 1

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

The way the add-on works is like a short marco that fires off without you setting up marcos it’s not at all close to automatic. To ban it would be pointless as anyone with a gaming mouse can just program the Marco themselves and then it would be the same thing.

But if you don't do anything.... Ok now I'm confused again.

It’s a Marco banning Marcos in an mmorpg would kill most add-ons and drop Quality of life though the floor.

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

How pre-crafting take 5 seconds for each item you can craft in bulk now without add-one so you can make say 15 daggers in the same time it take to make 1

You have no idea the time it can take on console with 18 master crafting alts. The loading screens alone add up to probably an hour. There's at least 9 "processing" times each of the 5 (ench, jewelry, blacksmith, cloth, wood) that add up each character. Even with Multi-craft it takes forever.

Not to mention the 70 or 80 inventory spaces it takes up on every character. Craft bags dont help with gear.

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

Ohh you’re on console. Well you chose the wrong platform for QoL that’s for certain. Why do you care what happens on other platforms?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

How pre-crafting take 5 seconds for each item you can craft in bulk now without add-one so you can make say 15 daggers in the same time it take to make 1

You have no idea the time it can take on console with 18 master crafting alts. The loading screens alone add up to probably an hour. There's at least 9 "processing" times each of the 5 (ench, jewelry, blacksmith, cloth, wood) that add up each character. Even with Multi-craft it takes forever.

I know how long it takes I have 20 characters 18 on NA and 2 on the EU if you per craft you just get the quest and then turn it right in that’s less then 5 minutes per character that’s 90 minutes which is about that it takes me with the add-on

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Ohh you’re on console. Well you chose the wrong platform for QoL that’s for certain. Why do you care what happens on other platforms?

I'm also on PC. I have multiple accounts. No Addons though.

less then 5 minutes per character that’s 90 minutes which is about that it takes me with the add-on

I've done it in around 95-110 before, but thats only turning things in. If I want to actually sell the rewards I don't need it almost doubles it. This is in addition to the 6 hours spent crafting each week to pre-craft.

Lazywrit is great, but I don't see how they allow it honestly. It basically turns the daily writs into daily turn ins for free stuff.

While I'd love that on console, I just can't get over how that sort of defeats the purpose of daily writs. Aren't they supposed to be tedious?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Ohh you’re on console. Well you chose the wrong platform for QoL that’s for certain. Why do you care what happens on other platforms?

I'm also on PC. I have multiple accounts. No Addons though.

less then 5 minutes per character that’s 90 minutes which is about that it takes me with the add-on

I've done it in around 95-110 before, but thats only turning things in. If I want to actually sell the rewards I don't need it almost doubles it. This is in addition to the 6 hours spent crafting each week to pre-craft.

While if you are not going to use an add-on per-craft once a week and turn in like normal I would do this in Shadowfen only it’s the best zone for crafting dailies all stations are outside minus food but food stacks so you only have to do that once a month if that.

Now from the wayshrine you get the first board it’s equipment do the woodworking one first it’s on the way to consumable board hit T and see if you need to make food if not get the jewelry then enchantment. Hit the blacksmith then clother and Alchemy if you need it again it stacks so you can do a month worth easy turning is next to the quest which is next to the stables so you can feed your horse if needed and then head to the bank and band everything you want to sell repeat on all toons then use the last guy to sell ornate and writs all in one stop. this should push you down to 90 minutes or even less.

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Ohh you’re on console. Well you chose the wrong platform for QoL that’s for certain. Why do you care what happens on other platforms?

I'm also on PC. I have multiple accounts. No Addons though.

less then 5 minutes per character that’s 90 minutes which is about that it takes me with the add-on

I've done it in around 95-110 before, but thats only turning things in. If I want to actually sell the rewards I don't need it almost doubles it. This is in addition to the 6 hours spent crafting each week to pre-craft.

While if you are not going to use an add-on per-craft once a week and turn in like normal I would do this in Shadowfen only it’s the best zone for crafting dailies all stations are outside minus food but food stacks so you only have to do that once a month if that.

Now from the wayshrine you get the first board it’s equipment do the woodworking one first it’s on the way to consumable board hit T and see if you need to make food if not get the jewelry then enchantment. Hit the blacksmith then clother and Alchemy if you need it again it stacks so you can do a month worth easy turning is next to the quest which is next to the stables so you can feed your horse if needed and then head to the bank and band everything you want to sell repeat on all toons then use the last guy to sell ornate and writs all in one stop. this should push you down to 90 minutes or even less.

But how is Lazy writ not sorta defeating the purpose of daily writs?

Is it not?

Banana · August 2020

Come join us on PC. You can use it to?

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

ZoS restricts what can and cannot be done thru the API. Lazywrit isn’t breaking the TOS. Pizza you remind me of Randall Weems from Authur the aardvark.

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

Banana wrote: »

Come join us on PC. You can use it to?

I am on PC already. But I craft on both accounts. I just don't see why its not automating when it literally does the work of crafting for you.

If its ok, why is it not on Console?

I get that addons help fill gaps in the game that improve quality of life. Like the mass construction and deconstruct, and guild trader searching..

But if this automates too much, they'll never port it to consoles and those users will never get those QOL updates.

Sergykid · August 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

No, you see I still have to walk over to the bench and click it. That’s not automated and within the TOS. Good try.

so if i go personally to a keep in pvp and i personally place my mouse over a player, can a macro automatically fire light attacks for me while i personally press spells buttons?

Hurbster · August 2020

This is getting silly. There is nothing wrong with lazy writ crafter.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Come join us on PC. You can use it to?

I am on PC already. But I craft on both accounts. I just don't see why its not automating when it literally does the work of crafting for you.

If its ok, why is it not on Console?

I get that addons help fill gaps in the game that improve quality of life. Like the mass construction and deconstruct, and guild trader searching..

But if this automates too much, they'll never port it to consoles and those users will never get those QOL updates.

Add-ons for consoles have to make it pass Microsoft and Sony and with a game like ESO it’s not worth their time to focus it. You take the number of add-on for the game and extra computer power and server lag that adds plus the fact that ESO is far from a console selling game it’s low on the Fs given for console list

Hotdog_23 · August 2020

PizzaCat82, they are going to defend it until their fingers bleed and say it's ok but for the add-on but heaven forbid they include the function into the base game for console players. The only people I hear that 36-54 players are the ones who do for writs on PC. Never heard of anyone on console doing it because it just takes to much time.

It's not just one add-on but the combination of several

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xnj6TGFeZ4

Be safe and have fun

thread just in the last 2 months about this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526626/daily-writs-get-a-job-instead-consoles-vs-pc-vs-lazy-writ-crafter/p1

PizzaCat82 · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Come join us on PC. You can use it to?

I am on PC already. But I craft on both accounts. I just don't see why its not automating when it literally does the work of crafting for you.

If its ok, why is it not on Console?

I get that addons help fill gaps in the game that improve quality of life. Like the mass construction and deconstruct, and guild trader searching..

But if this automates too much, they'll never port it to consoles and those users will never get those QOL updates.

Add-ons for consoles have to make it pass Microsoft and Sony and with a game like ESO it’s not worth their time to focus it. You take the number of add-on for the game and extra computer power and server lag that adds plus the fact that ESO is far from a console selling game it’s low on the Fs given for console list

You can't just dismiss something as "oh consoles good luck have fun" especially if having it disabled on the PC would cause a huge fit.

Console players are not second class citizens. We're more like Oregon, where we get things, just a few months after you guys.

This seems like something that the devs should take a real hard look at and give it some serious thought.

kargen27 · August 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

How pre-crafting take 5 seconds for each item you can craft in bulk now without add-one so you can make say 15 daggers in the same time it take to make 1

You have no idea the time it can take on console with 18 master crafting alts. The loading screens alone add up to probably an hour. There's at least 9 "processing" times each of the 5 (ench, jewelry, blacksmith, cloth, wood) that add up each character. Even with Multi-craft it takes forever.

Not to mention the 70 or 80 inventory spaces it takes up on every character. Craft bags dont help with gear.

Even using the app the loading screens still happen if you are running more than one character. The app only works to automate the actions at one crafting station. The player then has to manually go to the next station. The only time difference that matters in the difference when you access the crafting station until the time you close it. On 18 characters it might be an extra twenty minutes?