Any Word on Group BG Q's?

CheeseyNugs · August 2020

Has ZOS made any kind of statement about bringing back group BG q's or any alternative plans since they implemented this ridiculous system?
A few friends of mine from discord have come back and excitedly talked about how they couldnt wait to get some new pvp sets and BG together, after I told them that we could only play alone they pretty much just left back to other games lol.
Just wondering if pvp communities will be dead forever or if ZOS plans to keep [snip]

[edited for baiting]

mairwen85 · August 2020

The word is 'solo', unfortunately.

ZOS_Lunar · August 2020

Greetings everyone!

We've removed some posts from this thread as they violated our rules on baiting and bashing. It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.

trackdemon5512 · August 2020

[snip]

I mean this is precisely why the switch was made in the first place. Premades dominating BGS to such an extent that casual or solo players stopped queuing. There was no population and new/old players didn’t want to join.

So yes, ZOS will continue to listen [snip] rather than let the mode die. Cyrodiil and Imperial City are for groups.

[edited to remove quote and baiting]

mairwen85 · August 2020

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

[snip]
I mean this is precisely why the switch was made in the first place. Premades dominating BGS to such an extent that casual or solo players stopped queuing. There was no population and new/old players didn’t want to join.

So yes, ZOS will continue to listen [snip] rather than let the mode die. Cyrodiil and Imperial City are for groups.

Here's a thought, proper ranking and leader-boards with option to play ranked match with group, or non ranked solo.

edit to add: IC is far more solo friendly than a by design group oriented, objective driven tactical small scale PvP activity imo.

trackdemon5512 · August 2020

[/quote]

Here's a thought, proper ranking and leader-boards with option to play ranked match with group, or non ranked solo.[/quote]

Good idea. Problem is there aren’t enough players actively queuing for splitting the population like this. If ESO were a dedicated PVP game like Battlefield or COD sure you can do this. But if you look at current leaderboards it’s easily the same individuals over and over again, week after week. Players simply have too many choices in alternative activities within the game.

BG problems go WAY beyond just leaderboards that rewards the most play time. There’s no incentive for players to join up. The gear is stale and of no use in the meta. Players treat every mode as if it were a deathmatch resulting in frustration. And the MIN-MAX meta results in severely unbalanced matches which again forces frustrated players to quit and never return to the mode.

Solo-only queue was the first step in fixing these issue by trying to get a larger number of ppl to play BGs. But more corrective action is needed before group queue can be brought back. Otherwise the same issues will be exacerbated and BGs will be pointless and die.

Sinolai · August 2020

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

[snip]
I mean this is precisely why the switch was made in the first place. Premades dominating BGS to such an extent that casual or solo players stopped queuing. There was no population and new/old players didn’t want to join.

So yes, ZOS will continue to listen [snip] rather than let the mode die. Cyrodiil and Imperial City are for groups.

*are for people who are ready buy any-race+any-alliance and qble to switch alliance to keep playing the game.

TequilaFire · August 2020

Edited because my lawyer says so.

mairwen85 · August 2020

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Here's a thought, proper ranking and leader-boards with option to play ranked match with group, or non ranked solo.

Good idea. Problem is there aren’t enough players actively queuing for splitting the population like this. If ESO were a dedicated PVP game like Battlefield or COD sure you can do this. But if you look at current leaderboards it’s easily the same individuals over and over again, week after week. Players simply have too many choices in alternative activities within the game.

BG problems go WAY beyond just leaderboards that rewards the most play time. There’s no incentive for players to join up. The gear is stale and of no use in the meta. Players treat every mode as if it were a deathmatch resulting in frustration. And the MIN-MAX meta results in severely unbalanced matches which again forces frustrated players to quit and never return to the mode.

Solo-only queue was the first step in fixing these issue by trying to get a larger number of ppl to play BGs. But more corrective action is needed before group queue can be brought back. Otherwise the same issues will be exacerbated and BGs will be pointless and die.

Solo-only has exacerbated "every mode as if it were a death-match resulting in frustration" and plunged the quality of matches into the nether-realms of enjoyment, and reduced incentive for many players. I'd say it was a failed attempt at anything.

True ranking with proper rewards and incentives is part of it, I agree, but that comes with the introduction of my suggestion. Bragging rights is one thing, properly designed rewards is equally important.

[fixed quotes]

trackdemon5512 · August 2020

Solo-only is still a better alternative to having 4 werewolves on a single team continuously howl and decimate everyone else without trying. That’s a single example of the kind of group play that led to the current situation.

IMO BGs need to be completely reworked at this point. Yes I understand that it’s supposed to be very competitive but to really fix things you may need to go with predetermined character load outs just to balance things up. Furthermore group sizes may need to be cut down from 4 to 3. Too many matches start with only 3 players for some teams and never get a 4th. And that imbalance often caused players to quit rather than waste time in a lost match.

BGs when done right are fun, exciting, and can be downright nail biting. As well as they can instill a sense of accomplishment when players come together. The problem is that now when players do band together gear sets, food, play-styles, and coordination create a seriously imbalanced experience. FPS games minimize this kind of imbalance by limiting the loadouts, weapons, and boosts so that team coordination provides and advantage but doesn’t outright negate individual player skill.

Here we have too many gear combinations, stat boosts, player passives that make things bad enough as it is. Grouping only worsens it. I’d be favor in bringing back grouping if you cut down the other issues. Perhaps by bringing in BG only gear sets...

mairwen85 · August 2020

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Solo-only is still a better alternative to having 4 werewolves on a single team continuously howl and decimate everyone else without trying. That’s a single example of the kind of group play that led to the current situation.

IMO BGs need to be completely reworked at this point. Yes I understand that it’s supposed to be very competitive but to really fix things you may need to go with predetermined character load outs just to balance things up. Furthermore group sizes may need to be cut down from 4 to 3. Too many matches start with only 3 players for some teams and never get a 4th. And that imbalance often caused players to quit rather than waste time in a lost match.

BGs when done right are fun, exciting, and can be downright nail biting. As well as they can instill a sense of accomplishment when players come together. The problem is that now when players do band together gear sets, food, play-styles, and coordination create a seriously imbalanced experience. FPS games minimize this kind of imbalance by limiting the loadouts, weapons, and boosts so that team coordination provides and advantage but doesn’t outright negate individual player skill.

Here we have too many gear combinations, stat boosts, player passives that make things bad enough as it is. Grouping only worsens it. I’d be favor in bringing back grouping if you cut down the other issues. Perhaps by bringing in BG only gear sets...

It's not an fps though, and limiting players to cardboard cut outs reduces the enjoyment of composing a group strategically built around each other to accomplish a goal. Honestly, everything in your comment can be countered by separating the queue into ranked, progression based tactical PvP and casual PvP play. If I'm in a group that can't kill 4 WWs, there's something we need to tweak and work at as a team--likewise if your only crutch is WW form, you'll soon learn it doesn't work against every group. The only additional build rules really would be hard caps on what you bring into BGs in terms of specific stats, give room to build, but set limits on what is useful.

Donny_Vito · August 2020

Back to the point, I don't think there has been any word from ZoS (maybe in a stream or unofficially though) on their findings yet. The original point of this was to do some research and see how the community interacted with BGs when it was moved to solo only from the group queuing. There have been mixed reviews....I've seen a lot of happy people that are glad pre-mades aren't wrecking BGs anymore, and then I've seen groups who just want to socialize and play together in small scale PvP (i.e. BGs) and therefore get frustrated when they cannot.

trackdemon5512 · August 2020

@mairwen85 as I’ve said before you CAN’T separate rank and unranked as it is right now. You definitely could not separate before the solo-only was implemented. Group play has effectively killed off the population of BGs to unhealthy, untenable levels. At any one time you basically cannot get 12 random individuals to even play BGs together, resulting in matches with unbalanced teams. 4 grouped players against 4 randoms is bad enough. 4 grouped against a team of 2 because you the group finder couldn’t fill a slot and a player quit is even worse. Taking that population and splintering it further is just pointless.

And you should take FPSs into account as managing player populations with game modes and loadouts is intrinsic to keeping multiplayer alive and strong. Those developers constant tweak, adjust, and even remove unpopular modes just to maintain this balance of variety and population. ESO BGs have an insane amount of individual variety available for players but that has come at the cost of unbalancing gameplay and destroying the BG player base.

mairwen85 · August 2020

@trackdemon5512 , I did say that BGs need an overhaul. They need to be developed with actual purpose in mind for what the population wants, and currently that 'want' is already splintered into 3 paradigms. But the choice provided is limited to 1. ZOS already removed a lot of what people wanted out of small scale pvp when they introduced solo-only queues. They didn't add, they only took away and forced one vision onto the population at odds with a large portion of players who actually enjoyed the content. Splintering the player-base is not what my suggestion would do, but rather group them into their gameplay of choice. I'm not saying I'm right or that I'm proposing a silver bullet, but options are clearly what are needed; I only proposed a single option as illustration of example. Randoms vs pre-mades shouldn't happen unless players buy into doing it, and single players shouldn't have to carry an entire team of randoms or be able to mow down entire teams. Both are the result of bad design. Solo-queue is a lazy fix that doesn't address the problem but instead hides a symptom of a much deeper issue ZOS created when they failed to conceive of what the player-base actually wanted.

Abstraqt · August 2020

Should be able to group in a 2 man group max, still keeps the social aspects of an mmo, without too much room for coordinating & dominating.

Another option is that you can queue as a group but you get put on random teams, so you could end up AGAINST the people you grouped with, I can see that being super fun for competitive friends.

Group bgs used to be so fun, since they went solo it's been so bad.

DMuehlhausen · August 2020

The sad part...I want the Fire Drake Signature armor. I hate PvP, and by reading these and how people talk in the game it's a terrible experience...not sure I"ll bother with the grind for it.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · August 2020

In my opinion
Either it stay at iit is or the seperate the player base with premade queue an matchmade queue wich would basicly separate the already low pvp population in 2

mairwen85 · August 2020

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

In my opinion
Either it stay at iit is or the seperate the player base with premade queue an matchmade queue wich would basicly separate the already low pvp population in 2

Yet, I can't help but think this is a fallacy. Either battlegrounds were previously dominated by full and partial pre-mades, or there aren't enough players to support group queues. Both can't be true.

Jeremy · August 2020

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The sad part...I want the Fire Drake Signature armor. I hate PvP, and by reading these and how people talk in the game it's a terrible experience...not sure I"ll bother with the grind for it.

Battlegrounds can still be fun - even though I think damage is too high right now - just so long as your'e not pitted against a pre-made (who still manage to get in now and then).

Going up against premade teams as a pug is what can make battlegrounds an absolutely miserable experience. That's why a solo queue for battlegrounds is extremely important to maintain. Especially in this environment. Because running around as an organized team focusing on the same target to stun and coordinate damage burst would easily destroy any pug group.

That being said: I'm not against adding a group queue for tournament style battlegrounds. But it needs to be made in addition to the solo queue and not as a replacement.

Qbiken · August 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The sad part...I want the Fire Drake Signature armor. I hate PvP, and by reading these and how people talk in the game it's a terrible experience...not sure I"ll bother with the grind for it.

Battlegrounds can still be fun - even though I think damage is too high right now - just so long as your'e not pitted against a pre-made (who still manage to get in now and then).

Going up against premade teams as a pug is what can make battlegrounds an absolutely miserable experience. That's why a solo queue for battlegrounds is extremely important to maintain. Especially in this environment - because running around as an organized team focusing on the same target to stun and coordinate damage burst would easily destroy any pug group.

That being said: I'm not against adding a group queue for tournament style battlegrounds. But it needs to be made in addition to the solo queue and not as a replacement.

Solo queue has killed BG´s more than you can imagine.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Jeremy · August 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The sad part...I want the Fire Drake Signature armor. I hate PvP, and by reading these and how people talk in the game it's a terrible experience...not sure I"ll bother with the grind for it.

Battlegrounds can still be fun - even though I think damage is too high right now - just so long as your'e not pitted against a pre-made (who still manage to get in now and then).

Going up against premade teams as a pug is what can make battlegrounds an absolutely miserable experience. That's why a solo queue for battlegrounds is extremely important to maintain. Especially in this environment - because running around as an organized team focusing on the same target to stun and coordinate damage burst would easily destroy any pug group.

That being said: I'm not against adding a group queue for tournament style battlegrounds. But it needs to be made in addition to the solo queue and not as a replacement.

Solo queue has killed BG´s more than you can imagine.

Crying premade is an excuse for being bad and playing with friends needs to have higher priority than people making up excuses for losing BG matches.

I disagree. Allowing premades to fight against pug groups is what ruined BGs more than you can imagine.

It's also not an excuse or crying to point out that organized and coordinated teams have a huge advantage over pug groups. That's just a fact.

Premades should be matched against other premades. Pugs should be matched against other pugs. Simple as that. So I would oppose any change that would throw pugs back into the mix against premade teams. But like I said: if they want to add a group queue in addition to the solo queue that would be fine with me.

Qbiken · August 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The sad part...I want the Fire Drake Signature armor. I hate PvP, and by reading these and how people talk in the game it's a terrible experience...not sure I"ll bother with the grind for it.

Battlegrounds can still be fun - even though I think damage is too high right now - just so long as your'e not pitted against a pre-made (who still manage to get in now and then).

Going up against premade teams as a pug is what can make battlegrounds an absolutely miserable experience. That's why a solo queue for battlegrounds is extremely important to maintain. Especially in this environment - because running around as an organized team focusing on the same target to stun and coordinate damage burst would easily destroy any pug group.

That being said: I'm not against adding a group queue for tournament style battlegrounds. But it needs to be made in addition to the solo queue and not as a replacement.

Solo queue has killed BG´s more than you can imagine.

Crying premade is an excuse for being bad and playing with friends needs to have higher priority than people making up excuses for losing BG matches.

I disagree. Allowing premades to fight against pug groups is what ruined BGs more than you can imagine.

It's also not an excuse or crying to point out that organized and coordinated teams have a huge advantage over pug groups. That's just a fact.

Premades should be matched against other premades. Pugs should be matched against other pugs. Simple as that. So I would oppose any change that would throw pugs back into the mix against premade teams. But like I said: if they want to add a group queue in addition to the solo queue that would be fine with me.

They already were due to how the MMR system works. The higher score you get,the more games you played or the more you queued as a group, the faster you would end up in high MMR. And in high MMR you would either face:
1. Better player
2. More premades

So back then the issue solved itself by how ZOS mmr system worked. Now you end up fighting the same 20 players in each game and it´s pure RNG on whoever gets the least *** players who for some reason ended up in a high mmr game and ends up with 0-20 on their scoreboard. You can´t defend the current system. The old one is miles better. Even now people make excused about premades, even tho it´s not possible anymore. That if anything tells you all you need to know about the people who cries about premades.

I´d take the old system 24/7 and be up against two full stacked premades as a solo player, as long as it meant I could play with friend whenever I wanted to.

Jeremy · August 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The sad part...I want the Fire Drake Signature armor. I hate PvP, and by reading these and how people talk in the game it's a terrible experience...not sure I"ll bother with the grind for it.

Battlegrounds can still be fun - even though I think damage is too high right now - just so long as your'e not pitted against a pre-made (who still manage to get in now and then).

Going up against premade teams as a pug is what can make battlegrounds an absolutely miserable experience. That's why a solo queue for battlegrounds is extremely important to maintain. Especially in this environment - because running around as an organized team focusing on the same target to stun and coordinate damage burst would easily destroy any pug group.

That being said: I'm not against adding a group queue for tournament style battlegrounds. But it needs to be made in addition to the solo queue and not as a replacement.

Solo queue has killed BG´s more than you can imagine.

Crying premade is an excuse for being bad and playing with friends needs to have higher priority than people making up excuses for losing BG matches.

I disagree. Allowing premades to fight against pug groups is what ruined BGs more than you can imagine.

It's also not an excuse or crying to point out that organized and coordinated teams have a huge advantage over pug groups. That's just a fact.

Premades should be matched against other premades. Pugs should be matched against other pugs. Simple as that. So I would oppose any change that would throw pugs back into the mix against premade teams. But like I said: if they want to add a group queue in addition to the solo queue that would be fine with me.

They already were due to how the MMR system works. The higher score you get,the more games you played or the more you queued as a group, the faster you would end up in high MMR. And in high MMR you would either face:
1. Better player
2. More premades

So back then the issue solved itself by how ZOS mmr system worked. Now you end up fighting the same 20 players in each game and it´s pure RNG on whoever gets the least *** players who for some reason ended up in a high mmr game and ends up with 0-20 on their scoreboard. You can´t defend the current system. The old one is miles better. Even now people make excused about premades, even tho it´s not possible anymore. That if anything tells you all you need to know about the people who cries about premades.

I´d take the old system 24/7 and be up against two full stacked premades as a solo player, as long as it meant I could play with friend whenever I wanted to.

I remember BGing back before the solo queue. You mostly just had organized teams completely dominating pugs and it was miserable and frankly stupid. I'm sure it might have been fun for you and your friends - and other teams - but for the pugs being slaughtered not so much. So I can definitely defend the change. I've seen a marked improvement in the quality of the matches.

But again, and like I said: I'm willing to compromise. If they want to add another queue for groups that is fine with me. Just so long as the solo queue remains in place. Because having organized PvP teams picking on pugs is only fun for one side of the equation.

Linaleah · August 2020

every time people bring up prevalence of premades... i have to wonder, how many of those so- called premades were in reality one person who knows what the heck to do - taking the lead and the rest of the group of randoms, going along and just following the lead?

I'd wager, more then you think.

I mean... I've also been in pve pugs that i've joined randomly in Craglorn that were more efficient than some of the premade guild groups I've ran with (not my current guilds, but early on when i was just getting into the game and was even more casual than I am right now)

I've also been on bg teams where one person would tell us what to do, where to go and we'd win by a landslide. i would also see that person on other teams, never in the same combination of players, and their team tended to win more often then not. (you play enough battlegrounds in a row, and you start recognizing the names)

when I was playing during midyear mayhem, I saw above a LOT. heck I was even that person at one point... sorta (got lucky with chaos ball, healed myself long enough to make a difference, the rest of my team caught on and we won with the other two teams both being under 100 medals)

I also see groups not filling completely so you end up with one group having 2 or 3 people in at. its not a premade. its because the ONLY fix that ZoS could think of to the "perpetual queue that is forming forever and if you leave, regardless of how long you were waiting, you get a cooldown" - was to allow incomplete teams to go in anyways after a bit of waiting, hoping it backfills while match is in progress. sometimes it does. sometimes - it does not. and NOTHING to do with premades, to reiterate.

its a boogyman that people like to use to excuse why they lost.

SpiderKnight · August 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The sad part...I want the Fire Drake Signature armor. I hate PvP, and by reading these and how people talk in the game it's a terrible experience...not sure I"ll bother with the grind for it.

Battlegrounds can still be fun - even though I think damage is too high right now - just so long as your'e not pitted against a pre-made (who still manage to get in now and then).

Going up against premade teams as a pug is what can make battlegrounds an absolutely miserable experience. That's why a solo queue for battlegrounds is extremely important to maintain. Especially in this environment - because running around as an organized team focusing on the same target to stun and coordinate damage burst would easily destroy any pug group.

That being said: I'm not against adding a group queue for tournament style battlegrounds. But it needs to be made in addition to the solo queue and not as a replacement.

Solo queue has killed BG´s more than you can imagine.

Crying premade is an excuse for being bad and playing with friends needs to have higher priority than people making up excuses for losing BG matches.

Crying ex-premade players I think is what you meant to say, can't get kills in solo queue so they come here to falsely claim that BGs is dead. Go group in the 'diil or IC if you need your ball grouping fix, that's what they're made for.

Qbiken · August 2020

SpiderKnight wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The sad part...I want the Fire Drake Signature armor. I hate PvP, and by reading these and how people talk in the game it's a terrible experience...not sure I"ll bother with the grind for it.

Battlegrounds can still be fun - even though I think damage is too high right now - just so long as your'e not pitted against a pre-made (who still manage to get in now and then).

Going up against premade teams as a pug is what can make battlegrounds an absolutely miserable experience. That's why a solo queue for battlegrounds is extremely important to maintain. Especially in this environment - because running around as an organized team focusing on the same target to stun and coordinate damage burst would easily destroy any pug group.

That being said: I'm not against adding a group queue for tournament style battlegrounds. But it needs to be made in addition to the solo queue and not as a replacement.

Solo queue has killed BG´s more than you can imagine.

Crying premade is an excuse for being bad and playing with friends needs to have higher priority than people making up excuses for losing BG matches.

Crying ex-premade players I think is what you meant to say, can't get kills in solo queue so they come here to falsely claim that BGs is dead. Go group in the 'diil or IC if you need your ball grouping fix, that's what they're made for.

Ohh yes the "You can´t play without a group argument". Sure buddy, whatever makes you feel better about yourself. I´ve been doing fine performance wise in BG´s since they removed group queues. But it seems like my point flew a few thousand feet above your head.

But don´t get me wrong, if Cyrodil was playable (which it isn´t majority of the time) and IC had some population to speak of on my server, I would go there with the people I like playing with. BG´s is meant for group play, and it´s braindead to defend solo queue as only option.

And BG´s were aired by ZOS as a group activity where you could play with friends when it was released with Morrowind. BG´s at its peak (after the initial bugs with queues not working at release) it was a wonderful PvP experience (and back then I didn´t even have a group to play with, so it was all solo queue for me). Did I run into premades? Yes, but not nearly as often as people claimed.

And the BG community on PCEU has declined for sure. Entire guilds dedicated to BG`s has disbanded or are completely dead these days due to the change to solo queue only. Every evening I fight the same 20-25 players due to the horrible MMR system ZOS refuses to rework because they´re afraid people will get bullied (their own words actually). BG`s is the only place where I can somewhat play lagfree PvP, but not being able to play with friends is the biggest smooth brain move I´ve ever seen a company do in an MMO.

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

It seems like the word is that there is no word. Wouldn’t get my hopes up on group queue BGs they seemed to have settled on the matter.

Beardimus · August 2020

Need two queues. Simple.

Solo queue for solo and fast entrance. Groups in group and takes longer..why not push the boat out and register teams for leaderboards too etc..

I've not played them since solo queue, I enjoy them besat with mates.

WreckfulAbandon · August 2020

Yes, the BG test is still in progress, and we will be notified (probably) of any future changes.

And just a reminder that you nerds need to stop overreacting about the AoE testing period, it's just a test after all

CheeseyNugs · August 2020

I’ve made this point again and again, team orientated, objective based PvP is designed around GROUPS and therefore, you should be allowed to play it in a group. It is 4v4v4 small team tactical player vs player. By the logic I’m seeing on this topic, we should make dungeons solo q only, because I’m sick of seeing premades in there reserving loot for each other while I can only rely on myself.

I completely disregard any argument saying that GROUP PVP should be made strictly as a solo experience, not only do I ignore these but every other developer of other MMOs ignore them too and for good reason. You guys say ZOS doesn’t listen when in fact I think they listen too much, some QQ needs to be ignored and traditional battlegrounds should never have been altered. And I’ll say again, they should just make a free for all playlist for the solo players and let us pvpers enjoy our small scale tactical PvP.

Nobody can justify FPS games doing solo matchmaking or dungeons as solo q’s so why does it make sense to change battlegrounds? Give the solo players a free for all playlist and let us pvpers have our communities back.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I primarily main a nightblade healer so “not being able to get kills” is definitely not my problem, as I now run a cheesey gank build for death match and get around 25-30 kills on average and if I find people who are in pve gear I can farm them even harder. This isn’t about kills it’s about BG’s being absolutely no fun and playing alone is not what an MMORPG is about, least of all PvP. I thought these things were there to promote team play and communities not the complete opposite?

trackdemon5512 · August 2020

CheeseyNugs wrote: »

I’ve made this point again and again, team orientated, objective based PvP is designed around GROUPS and therefore, you should be allowed to play it in a group. It is 4v4v4 small team tactical player vs player. By the logic I’m seeing on this topic, we should make dungeons solo q only, because I’m sick of seeing premades in there reserving loot for each other while I can only rely on myself.

I completely disregard any argument saying that GROUP PVP should be made strictly as a solo experience, not only do I ignore these but every other developer of other MMOs ignore them too and for good reason. You guys say ZOS doesn’t listen when in fact I think they listen too much, some QQ needs to be ignored and traditional battlegrounds should never have been altered. And I’ll say again, they should just make a free for all playlist for the solo players and let us pvpers enjoy our small scale tactical PvP.

Nobody can justify FPS games doing solo matchmaking or dungeons as solo q’s so why does it make sense to change battlegrounds? Give the solo players a free for all playlist and let us pvpers have our communities back.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I primarily main a nightblade healer so “not being able to get kills” is definitely not my problem, as I now run a cheesey gank build for death match and get around 25-30 kills on average and if I find people who are in pve gear I can farm them even harder. This isn’t about kills it’s about BG’s being absolutely no fun and playing alone is not what an MMORPG is about, least of all PvP. I thought these things were there to promote team play and communities not the complete opposite?

BGs were designed as a team-oriented PVP experience. The problem lies in the fact that the current game has long been terrible in getting players to form teams. Voice chat is hit or miss and balance is abysmal.

FPSs are well designed for team balancing during matchmaking. Modes are designed for players coming in and out, not having voice chat, and low population queuing. Most importantly, the player population coming in is specifically focused on being competitive.

BGs were designed for a constant player population engaging but obviously not for low population. @mairwen85 BGs were once filled with full groups and partial groups queuing up to play and things were good. But the lack of content updates for the mode, coupled with imbalances in the meta got players to quit the mode when things weren’t quickly addressed. 3 months of tanking bashcros, sload semblance users, overturned werewolves, etc drove those players away. The hardcore stayed but now the population is crap. You have the elite and the uninitiated, the latter of which get whooped so bad that they don’t want to continue after losing to experienced players and premade groups.

The experienced single players and premades, coupled with attrition brought about by static content and grouping imbalances, have dropped the population so low you cannot have two separate queues. The choice to eliminate group queues was simply the first step in stemming the population loss in BGs. The next will be to restructure BGs properly which is not a priority right now. Combat balances and overall stability are.