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Nb Tank Damage Mitigation

p4l4mu7
p4l4mu7
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To give pve nb a damage buff, Zos decided to remove the mitigation buff which was an important passive for both nb tanks and pvp nbs. This move to nerf pvp nb also hurts nb tanks, can you at least put the mitigation passive on the shadow tree maybe on Refreshing Path skill, only giving mitigation buff to caster when he stands in it. Refreshing Path is a healing skill which has a really low HoT in pvp and it's not used by dds so adding the mitigation buff to skill would only benefit tanks anyways.
Cp +1350 PC/EU
Mughrah - Orc Dragonknight, lv50
Ariety Ysaem - Breton Sorcerer, lv50
Dies-While-Tanking - Argonian Nightblade, lv50
Lisirek of Cloudrest - Altmer Nightblade, lv50
Shazgob von Orsinium - Orc Necromancer, lv50
Theras of Yokuda - Nord Sorcerer, Former Emperor , lv50
Hadrian Septim - Nord Warden, lv50
Fellenor of Cloudrest - Altmer Dragonknight, lv50
M'aiq Tyson - Khajiit Warden, lv50
Atmoran - Nord Dragonknight, lv50
Nimria of Valenwood - Bosmer Necromancer, lv50
Celnia Ivystone - Altmer Sorcerer, lv50
Chrollo - Redguard Nightblade, lv50
Orsimer - Orc Sorcerer, lv50
Necrodancer - Breton Necromancer, lv50
Jab Goes Brr - Orc Templar, lv50
  • Playboy_Shrek
    Playboy_Shrek
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    ugh refreshing path would make the mitigation cost an insane amount for uptime. tho it would help make your team insanely tanky.
  • ayu_fever
    ayu_fever
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    NB damage mitigation passives and skills would just be abused by pvp players (especially gankers) which will lead to even more NB nerfs.
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.
    PS4 NA

    all characters are members of the ebonheart pact master race
    BLOOD FOR THE PACT

    main character:
    Rebekah Straight-Fire, breton templar healer: THE FATEBRINGER (dungeons, trials, pvp; all vet content certified)
    —MERIDIA’S LUSTRANT— 1100CP; alliance rank 21 (major grade 1); Rebekah is the most devout worshipper of the lady of infinite energies and the highest ascendant of meridia’s purified legion and forged from Her purifying light.

    other meta toons-
    Zelina Straight-Fire, dark elf warden healer: THE ALCHEMIST (dungeons, trials)
    Sasha Straight-Fire, nord dragonknight tank: THE FIREWALL (dungeons, trials)
    Ororo Straight-Fire, dark elf magsorc dps: THE SHOCKWAVE (dungeons, trials)
    Michonne Straight-Fire, redguard stamDK dps: THE EVISCERATOR (dungeons, trials)

    just for fun toons-
    Morgana Straight-Fire, dark elf necromancer healer: THE DEATHSINGER
    Lucille Straight-Fire, high elf nightblade healer: THE BLOOD ANGEL
    Diana Straight-Fire, nord templar tank: THE CLERIC
    Freyja Straight-Fire, nord warden ice mage: THE ICEBERG
    Falsetto Straight-Fire, orc stamsorc werewolf: THE THUNDERHOWL
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    NB damage mitigation passives and skills would just be abused by pvp players (especially gankers) which will lead to even more NB nerfs.
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.

    Not if you tie the mitigation to dark cloak. Which is what they should do.
  • umagon
    umagon
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    The devs could add the 10% into the shadow barrier passive. With a second line “For every piece of heavy armor equipped reduce damage taken by 1.5%.”
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    NB damage mitigation passives and skills would just be abused by pvp players (especially gankers) which will lead to even more NB nerfs.
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.
    "Play how you want" — unless you're a NB and you want to tank or play PVP.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    NB damage mitigation passives and skills would just be abused by pvp players (especially gankers) which will lead to even more NB nerfs.
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.

    Not if you tie the mitigation to dark cloak. Which is what they should do.

    That would just make Dark Cloak massively overpowered in PvP. It would basically be Necromancer's Deaden Pain with an 8 second duration and no corpse cost.
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    NB damage mitigation passives and skills would just be abused by pvp players (especially gankers) which will lead to even more NB nerfs.
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.

    Not if you tie the mitigation to dark cloak. Which is what they should do.

    That would just make Dark Cloak massively overpowered in PvP. It would basically be Necromancer's Deaden Pain with an 8 second duration and no corpse cost.

    There's no reason to use Dark Cloak currently. Nightblades can't survive out in the open even now in live with their weak heals and no purge. And with the changes coming to Grim Focus it further pigeonholes all Nightblades to use Shadowy Disguise.

    Yeah Dark Cloak needs a massive buff just to make the skill worth using.
  • p4l4mu7
    p4l4mu7
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.

    Said by non top-tier player ever. Guess my guild was making a mistake all this time while pushing leaderboard records. I'll tell them to bring dk and warden tanks. I'd list you reasons one by one why nb is the best tank class along with dk but I'll just post an informative video instead so if you wonder why nb tanks are always picked by actual endgame guilds you can check this out. Warden and dk tanks are just generic classes every new tank player picks when they start to game. If I want to be taken seriously by newbie players yes I should play a dk or warden tank but it's not the case in endgame.

    Edited by p4l4mu7 on August 1, 2020 7:33PM
    Cp +1350 PC/EU
    Mughrah - Orc Dragonknight, lv50
    Ariety Ysaem - Breton Sorcerer, lv50
    Dies-While-Tanking - Argonian Nightblade, lv50
    Lisirek of Cloudrest - Altmer Nightblade, lv50
    Shazgob von Orsinium - Orc Necromancer, lv50
    Theras of Yokuda - Nord Sorcerer, Former Emperor , lv50
    Hadrian Septim - Nord Warden, lv50
    Fellenor of Cloudrest - Altmer Dragonknight, lv50
    M'aiq Tyson - Khajiit Warden, lv50
    Atmoran - Nord Dragonknight, lv50
    Nimria of Valenwood - Bosmer Necromancer, lv50
    Celnia Ivystone - Altmer Sorcerer, lv50
    Chrollo - Redguard Nightblade, lv50
    Orsimer - Orc Sorcerer, lv50
    Necrodancer - Breton Necromancer, lv50
    Jab Goes Brr - Orc Templar, lv50
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.

    Yeah, no.

  • UntilValhalla13
    UntilValhalla13
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.

    I mean, I sorc tank a lot of dlc trials, and I love it. No one ever really brings sorcs to trials as much, so the buff is nice, and the mitigation is disgusting.
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.

    I mean, I sorc tank a lot of dlc trials, and I love it. No one ever really brings sorcs to trials as much, so the buff is nice, and the mitigation is disgusting.

    I was gonna say, Sorc tank is absurdly good atm lol The mitigation is beyond ridiculous.
  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.
  • Playboy_Shrek
    Playboy_Shrek
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    zvavi wrote: »
    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.

    NB tanks is "Strong" because of grim focus, if grim focus is gone, NB tank is going to be not that far off from templar tier. Literally every time I looked up an NB tank guide the main highlight i grim focus unique damage mitigation
  • thadjarvis
    thadjarvis
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    Yes Grim Focus does provide 10% mitigation, but that's all it does. Often I find there isn't space for grim anyway.

    The skill's budget on live includes the damage side so it's actually not comparatively strong compared to similar skills for tanks in other classes. Spirit Guardian has same mitigation, a nice self/ally HoT, a corpse (ie ultimate), and some other passives. Another example would be bound aegis. For mitigation I'd take the purely defensive budgeted skills BA or SG over focus any day. Even defensive posture has a good case to beat it out. Only for block mitigation but brings other benefits.
    Edited by thadjarvis on August 3, 2020 4:46PM
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    zvavi wrote: »
    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.

    NB tanks is "Strong" because of grim focus, if grim focus is gone, NB tank is going to be not that far off from templar tier. Literally every time I looked up an NB tank guide the main highlight i grim focus unique damage mitigation

    I've never tanked on a nightblade, but advantages I'm looking forward to evaluating include:
    -- Untargeted and sometimes AoEish Minor Maim.
    -- Major Evasion.
    -- Major Resolve without spending a skill bar slot.
    -- Ranged Breach/Fracture that can also be used as a self-heal in a trash fight.
    -- The possibility of providing 1H&S's debuffs while actually running two staffs for a stronger Weakening enchant.
    -- Magicka-based fear.

    So I'm curious: Which of those do people actually like in practice?
  • Playboy_Shrek
    Playboy_Shrek
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    zvavi wrote: »
    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.

    NB tanks is "Strong" because of grim focus, if grim focus is gone, NB tank is going to be not that far off from templar tier. Literally every time I looked up an NB tank guide the main highlight i grim focus unique damage mitigation

    I've never tanked on a nightblade, but advantages I'm looking forward to evaluating include:
    -- Untargeted and sometimes AoEish Minor Maim.
    -- Major Evasion.
    -- Major Resolve without spending a skill bar slot.
    -- Ranged Breach/Fracture that can also be used as a self-heal in a trash fight.
    -- The possibility of providing 1H&S's debuffs while actually running two staffs for a stronger Weakening enchant.
    -- Magicka-based fear.

    So I'm curious: Which of those do people actually like in practice?

    the fear is for non-elite enemies trash mobs. basically, dungeons that are already easy as hell even for a 30khp tank.

    nobody is not running 1h and shield and situation ally okay. the power extraction is useable. but the range is pretty limited. I use it to generate ult from the siphoning tree not much more.

    nobody is using mark target.

    major resolve without skill slot is nice.

    major evasion is nice in vSS, a lot of other trials your tanking 95% direct damage so you generally backbar it or dont slot it at all outside of vSS and some dungeonns but generally backbar it and use it here and there.

    the minor maim is great but the skill doesn't provide much else besides the minor maim. low slash gives ult generation which is way better.

    NB can't really buff your team like warden or DK.
  • Calypso589
    Calypso589
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    ayu_fever wrote: »
    NB damage mitigation passives and skills would just be abused by pvp players (especially gankers) which will lead to even more NB nerfs.
    NB tanks are strong in some specific encounters, but honestly if you want to be taken seriously as a tank you have to be a DK or a warden.

    No?

    Any tank works in all content. What it comes down to is composition and whether or not X class of tank adds anything to the group.

    For example, Warden healers are popular. If you have a warden healer and a magdk in your magicka comp, then you don't actually need to bring a warden OR a DK tank.

    Instead you can rock a Sorc tank and continue to add to your group with Minor Prophecy (thus saving DPS from having to potentially roll a marginally weaker class of DPS).

    Examples like that are all over.

    To heck with this notion that only DKs and Wardens are accepted.

    They're the easiest to play......but don't confuse that with being the "best" to play.
    Edited by Calypso589 on August 3, 2020 3:46PM
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    zvavi wrote: »
    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.

    NB tanks is "Strong" because of grim focus, if grim focus is gone, NB tank is going to be not that far off from templar tier. Literally every time I looked up an NB tank guide the main highlight i grim focus unique damage mitigation

    I've never tanked on a nightblade, but advantages I'm looking forward to evaluating include:
    -- Untargeted and sometimes AoEish Minor Maim.
    -- Major Evasion.
    -- Major Resolve without spending a skill bar slot.
    -- Ranged Breach/Fracture that can also be used as a self-heal in a trash fight.
    -- The possibility of providing 1H&S's debuffs while actually running two staffs for a stronger Weakening enchant.
    -- Magicka-based fear.

    So I'm curious: Which of those do people actually like in practice?

    the fear is for non-elite enemies trash mobs. basically, dungeons that are already easy as hell even for a 30khp tank.

    nobody is not running 1h and shield and situation ally okay. the power extraction is useable. but the range is pretty limited. I use it to generate ult from the siphoning tree not much more.

    nobody is using mark target.

    major resolve without skill slot is nice.

    major evasion is nice in vSS, a lot of other trials your tanking 95% direct damage so you generally backbar it or dont slot it at all outside of vSS and some dungeonns but generally backbar it and use it here and there.

    the minor maim is great but the skill doesn't provide much else besides the minor maim. low slash gives ult generation which is way better.

    NB can't really buff your team like warden or DK.

    Which warden or DK buffs matters?

    Does anybody care about the warden group Major Resolve or the DK group Major Brutality/Sorcery?

    Minor Brutality is nice of course ... assuming the group isn't all magicka.

    Do warden heals proc Minor Toughness?

    Does anybody still rely on a tank for Engulfing Flames?

    What else am I overlooking?
  • Calypso589
    Calypso589
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    zvavi wrote: »
    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.

    NB tanks is "Strong" because of grim focus, if grim focus is gone, NB tank is going to be not that far off from templar tier. Literally every time I looked up an NB tank guide the main highlight i grim focus unique damage mitigation

    You should actually roll a NB tank instead of purely going off guides.

    You'd see then that Grim Focus was a nice take it or leave it.

    It's hardly the only reason NB mitigation is as amazing as it is.
  • Calypso589
    Calypso589
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    zvavi wrote: »
    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.

    NB tanks is "Strong" because of grim focus, if grim focus is gone, NB tank is going to be not that far off from templar tier. Literally every time I looked up an NB tank guide the main highlight i grim focus unique damage mitigation

    I've never tanked on a nightblade, but advantages I'm looking forward to evaluating include:
    -- Untargeted and sometimes AoEish Minor Maim.
    -- Major Evasion.
    -- Major Resolve without spending a skill bar slot.
    -- Ranged Breach/Fracture that can also be used as a self-heal in a trash fight.
    -- The possibility of providing 1H&S's debuffs while actually running two staffs for a stronger Weakening enchant.
    -- Magicka-based fear.

    So I'm curious: Which of those do people actually like in practice?

    the fear is for non-elite enemies trash mobs. basically, dungeons that are already easy as hell even for a 30khp tank.

    nobody is not running 1h and shield and situation ally okay. the power extraction is useable. but the range is pretty limited. I use it to generate ult from the siphoning tree not much more.

    nobody is using mark target.

    major resolve without skill slot is nice.

    major evasion is nice in vSS, a lot of other trials your tanking 95% direct damage so you generally backbar it or dont slot it at all outside of vSS and some dungeonns but generally backbar it and use it here and there.

    the minor maim is great but the skill doesn't provide much else besides the minor maim. low slash gives ult generation which is way better.

    NB can't really buff your team like warden or DK.

    Which warden or DK buffs matters?

    Does anybody care about the warden group Major Resolve or the DK group Major Brutality/Sorcery?

    Minor Brutality is nice of course ... assuming the group isn't all magicka.

    Do warden heals proc Minor Toughness?

    Does anybody still rely on a tank for Engulfing Flames?

    What else am I overlooking?

    1. Many of them.
    2. Yes. In the case of the Warden, Minor Toughness is main attraction. Magdks can provide Major brutality or Sorcery so a magicka composition can honestly flex their main tank.
    3. Minor Brutality is just a by product of the other buffs a DK tank is providing to a Mag comp.
    4. Yes. If there is no warden healer, then a warden tank just throws down an Altar.
    5. Next patch you may see more DKs providing engulfing (8% rather than 10 is really all you need). You might see this more on the higher end thanks to the sustain hit Magdks took in the PTS so it's possible we may see more Sorc tanks or even DK healers. There's a lot of possibilities.



  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    Calypso589 wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.

    NB tanks is "Strong" because of grim focus, if grim focus is gone, NB tank is going to be not that far off from templar tier. Literally every time I looked up an NB tank guide the main highlight i grim focus unique damage mitigation

    I've never tanked on a nightblade, but advantages I'm looking forward to evaluating include:
    -- Untargeted and sometimes AoEish Minor Maim.
    -- Major Evasion.
    -- Major Resolve without spending a skill bar slot.
    -- Ranged Breach/Fracture that can also be used as a self-heal in a trash fight.
    -- The possibility of providing 1H&S's debuffs while actually running two staffs for a stronger Weakening enchant.
    -- Magicka-based fear.

    So I'm curious: Which of those do people actually like in practice?

    the fear is for non-elite enemies trash mobs. basically, dungeons that are already easy as hell even for a 30khp tank.

    nobody is not running 1h and shield and situation ally okay. the power extraction is useable. but the range is pretty limited. I use it to generate ult from the siphoning tree not much more.

    nobody is using mark target.

    major resolve without skill slot is nice.

    major evasion is nice in vSS, a lot of other trials your tanking 95% direct damage so you generally backbar it or dont slot it at all outside of vSS and some dungeonns but generally backbar it and use it here and there.

    the minor maim is great but the skill doesn't provide much else besides the minor maim. low slash gives ult generation which is way better.

    NB can't really buff your team like warden or DK.

    Which warden or DK buffs matters?

    Does anybody care about the warden group Major Resolve or the DK group Major Brutality/Sorcery?

    Minor Brutality is nice of course ... assuming the group isn't all magicka.

    Do warden heals proc Minor Toughness?

    Does anybody still rely on a tank for Engulfing Flames?

    What else am I overlooking?

    1. Many of them.
    2. Yes. In the case of the Warden, Minor Toughness is main attraction. Magdks can provide Major brutality or Sorcery so a magicka composition can honestly flex their main tank.
    3. Minor Brutality is just a by product of the other buffs a DK tank is providing to a Mag comp.
    4. Yes. If there is no warden healer, then a warden tank just throws down an Altar.
    5. Next patch you may see more DKs providing engulfing (8% rather than 10 is really all you need). You might see this more on the higher end thanks to the sustain hit Magdks took in the PTS so it's possible we may see more Sorc tanks or even DK healers. There's a lot of possibilities.



    Naw sorry, not many of them. The only reason these would be considered "tank" buffs is because the other roles are equally shoehorned into certian classes. Minor toughness, minor intellect, group wide major sorc/brut and resolve are all not intrisincially tied to the tank roll. That is just circumstances.

    Assuming the group would benefit from a provided group wide major buff such as resolve or sorc/brut a dk healer or warden healer can easily fufill that need. Minor toughness can be covered by warden, regardless of their role without taking a hit to dps let alone healer or tank. Dk tanks have one unique perk and that is an hp scaled group shield that on average soaks one tick of a group wide damage scenario at best.

    The minor toughness, brut, sav, sorc, proph, are all generated by the class simply being present in a group, this is how these passives are designed. Regarding more intentionally utility, said tools are not exclusively or more practically afforded to tanks over other roles, namely tank/healers. A sorcerer healer or a warden tank can give the group minor intellect, a nb tank or warden healer can give e group wide major protection on a stack phase. A dk healer or tank can give group wide major damage buff. A warden tank or healer can give group wide armor buff, the list goes on. Just because DK healers and templar tanks could really use a buff in those respective roles does not make the other roles inferior by design.
  • Calypso589
    Calypso589
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Calypso589 wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    The only tank class that is currently struggling is Templar. NB tanks are strong.

    NB tanks is "Strong" because of grim focus, if grim focus is gone, NB tank is going to be not that far off from templar tier. Literally every time I looked up an NB tank guide the main highlight i grim focus unique damage mitigation

    I've never tanked on a nightblade, but advantages I'm looking forward to evaluating include:
    -- Untargeted and sometimes AoEish Minor Maim.
    -- Major Evasion.
    -- Major Resolve without spending a skill bar slot.
    -- Ranged Breach/Fracture that can also be used as a self-heal in a trash fight.
    -- The possibility of providing 1H&S's debuffs while actually running two staffs for a stronger Weakening enchant.
    -- Magicka-based fear.

    So I'm curious: Which of those do people actually like in practice?

    the fear is for non-elite enemies trash mobs. basically, dungeons that are already easy as hell even for a 30khp tank.

    nobody is not running 1h and shield and situation ally okay. the power extraction is useable. but the range is pretty limited. I use it to generate ult from the siphoning tree not much more.

    nobody is using mark target.

    major resolve without skill slot is nice.

    major evasion is nice in vSS, a lot of other trials your tanking 95% direct damage so you generally backbar it or dont slot it at all outside of vSS and some dungeonns but generally backbar it and use it here and there.

    the minor maim is great but the skill doesn't provide much else besides the minor maim. low slash gives ult generation which is way better.

    NB can't really buff your team like warden or DK.

    Which warden or DK buffs matters?

    Does anybody care about the warden group Major Resolve or the DK group Major Brutality/Sorcery?

    Minor Brutality is nice of course ... assuming the group isn't all magicka.

    Do warden heals proc Minor Toughness?

    Does anybody still rely on a tank for Engulfing Flames?

    What else am I overlooking?

    1. Many of them.
    2. Yes. In the case of the Warden, Minor Toughness is main attraction. Magdks can provide Major brutality or Sorcery so a magicka composition can honestly flex their main tank.
    3. Minor Brutality is just a by product of the other buffs a DK tank is providing to a Mag comp.
    4. Yes. If there is no warden healer, then a warden tank just throws down an Altar.
    5. Next patch you may see more DKs providing engulfing (8% rather than 10 is really all you need). You might see this more on the higher end thanks to the sustain hit Magdks took in the PTS so it's possible we may see more Sorc tanks or even DK healers. There's a lot of possibilities.



    Naw sorry, not many of them. The only reason these would be considered "tank" buffs is because the other roles are equally shoehorned into certian classes. Minor toughness, minor intellect, group wide major sorc/brut and resolve are all not intrisincially tied to the tank roll. That is just circumstances.

    Assuming the group would benefit from a provided group wide major buff such as resolve or sorc/brut a dk healer or warden healer can easily fufill that need. Minor toughness can be covered by warden, regardless of their role without taking a hit to dps let alone healer or tank. Dk tanks have one unique perk and that is an hp scaled group shield that on average soaks one tick of a group wide damage scenario at best.

    The minor toughness, brut, sav, sorc, proph, are all generated by the class simply being present in a group, this is how these passives are designed. Regarding more intentionally utility, said tools are not exclusively or more practically afforded to tanks over other roles, namely tank/healers. A sorcerer healer or a warden tank can give the group minor intellect, a nb tank or warden healer can give e group wide major protection on a stack phase. A dk healer or tank can give group wide major damage buff. A warden tank or healer can give group wide armor buff, the list goes on. Just because DK healers and templar tanks could really use a buff in those respective roles does not make the other roles inferior by design.

    Never said they were?
  • Playboy_Shrek
    Playboy_Shrek
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    the great thing about grim focus is that its pretty much permanent, on both bars. I would be totally fine with a "while slotted" damage mitigation. before people complain about pvp, I don't care about pvp and most people don't

    they should just make it a passive, nightblade is the squishiest class in the game when build for damage. it will mostly just be for tanks.
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