DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

The PROC meta is inbound yall. its gonna happen. if yall dont rally together for magic classes we will see more stam users than even now in cyrodil including myself bc i play to win using high damage proc sets. This is one of the only high burst damage proc sets for magic users. it should be useable by all for various builds with out having to go crit bc stam users can do more burst with their sets. we magic users already are gonna have to run a purge of some type to get rid of the proc dots and bleeds as it is.

I've been arguing against high damage procs this entire PTS discussion so far. Adding the crit back was an easy fix for the set being to powerful. It isn't a nerf from live at all. In fact, the set got a damage buff and it no longer has a proc chance, it will always proc after 10 seconds on crit damage. And it now works for stamina crits as well.

Proc sets on live are mostly ok right now, with a few exceptions. But even Caluurians on live is strong. You don't need a crit damage build to make it work. Crit chance is high, and most builds have decent crit chance as well. The crit condition prevents one of the strongest burst damage sets from also working with Malacath. Which is necessary because Malacath adds a ton of damage to the set and all proc sets. They appear to not want to make a change to stop that, so preventing the Caluurian proc from being able to interact with it is the right call.

Kungfu wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

yes, many of the other stam procs are too easy to proc.

At least we agree on something.

jaws343 wrote: »

They should be retuned as well, not the other way around.

Though I disagree here. I'm a firm believer that nerfing things should be a last resort. Instead, counter options / abilities / procs should always be brought UP to meet demands where ever possible. This is a simple player morale stance. When nerfs happen, people get frustrated. When counters are brought UP to current standards, it makes more players happy than frustrated.

That said, you cannot "manage" a Caalurion's proc. It's a random thing. The fact that you run it with sorc says that you're not really managing it... just waiting for it to happen. So you're dotting up your target, stacking your execute on it/them. And then you smile & profit if / when the proc goes off. That's great! But if the crit requirement was removed, you actually COULD truly "Manage" your proc. With a semi-randomized proc based off a **chance** to crit, you are really only fooling yourself by stating that you have any control over it whatsoever. RNG.

To get technical, nothing has been nerfed or buffed yet. It is all still on PTS. So reverting changes that were introduced during PTS and not implementing them is not a nerf to a set. It is just not implementing the change. The sets would still be the same as they are on live if none of the changes were implemented. Right now, they all got buffed from live by removing a lot of the conditions to proc. Altering that or adding a different condition isn't a nerf.

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

also jaws i would argue it needs to be made closer to proc, why should a crit glass cannon build sorc have access to instant high burst damage from range and can streak away? see what I mean. the set needs to have the proc crit condition removed.

If the crit requirement were removed from Caluurion it would mean four things: 1) it would work with Malacath, 2) it would be a guaranteed proc every 10 seconds, 3) because of 1 and 2, practically every mag toon in the game (and a lot of stam toons) would be running around hitting people with 26k Malacath buffed Caluurion procs every 10 seconds, 4) it would be unbearable.

In any case, I feel like you're a little too hung up on the set requiring a crit to proc. Think about it like this: even in no CP, your crit rate is at least 25%, but more than likely it's 30%-35% — and this is without building for crit at all. So that means that the set has about a ~30% chance (or higher) to proc. As far as proc sets go a 30%+ chance is actually pretty good.

jaws343 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

The PROC meta is inbound yall. its gonna happen. if yall dont rally together for magic classes we will see more stam users than even now in cyrodil including myself bc i play to win using high damage proc sets. This is one of the only high burst damage proc sets for magic users. it should be useable by all for various builds with out having to go crit bc stam users can do more burst with their sets. we magic users already are gonna have to run a purge of some type to get rid of the proc dots and bleeds as it is.

I've been arguing against high damage procs this entire PTS discussion so far. Adding the crit back was an easy fix for the set being to powerful. It isn't a nerf from live at all. In fact, the set got a damage buff and it no longer has a proc chance, it will always proc after 10 seconds on crit damage. And it now works for stamina crits as well.

Proc sets on live are mostly ok right now, with a few exceptions. But even Caluurians on live is strong. You don't need a crit damage build to make it work. Crit chance is high, and most builds have decent crit chance as well. The crit condition prevents one of the strongest burst damage sets from also working with Malacath. Which is necessary because Malacath adds a ton of damage to the set and all proc sets. They appear to not want to make a change to stop that, so preventing the Caluurian proc from being able to interact with it is the right call.

So the reason to keep crit proc chance is bc of malacath?

The reason to keep it is no one should just have a guaranteed proc that does the damage of an ultimate on cooldown non stop. Maybe if the skill did half that damage. Skoria does half that damage, procs every 5 seconds, but it has far more restrictive conditions to proc, a % chance and it needs to go off dots. If you put 1 dot on a player you may go 20 seconds without a single proc. Caluurians without a crit chance and a guaranteed proc on dealing damage will do 20K damage 3 times during a 20 second window off the same dot. 60K damage guaranteed with Caluurian, or 50K damage total with Skoria but at an 8% chance for each 10K worth of damage. Caluurians is far too strong for that. And it is still even too strong for only needing a crit.

the proc chance on skoria is goin away atleast from what i read in the patch notes. no more % chance it will be guranteed every time the specific amout of time passes. i thought or i could be out to lunch. Also in povp it wont be 20k damage. currently i have never hit a guy for more than 7-8k. i myself have never been hit with it for more than 5-6k. so i do not see the amount of "over damage" happening.

jaws343 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

The PROC meta is inbound yall. its gonna happen. if yall dont rally together for magic classes we will see more stam users than even now in cyrodil including myself bc i play to win using high damage proc sets. This is one of the only high burst damage proc sets for magic users. it should be useable by all for various builds with out having to go crit bc stam users can do more burst with their sets. we magic users already are gonna have to run a purge of some type to get rid of the proc dots and bleeds as it is.

I've been arguing against high damage procs this entire PTS discussion so far. Adding the crit back was an easy fix for the set being to powerful. It isn't a nerf from live at all. In fact, the set got a damage buff and it no longer has a proc chance, it will always proc after 10 seconds on crit damage. And it now works for stamina crits as well.

Proc sets on live are mostly ok right now, with a few exceptions. But even Caluurians on live is strong. You don't need a crit damage build to make it work. Crit chance is high, and most builds have decent crit chance as well. The crit condition prevents one of the strongest burst damage sets from also working with Malacath. Which is necessary because Malacath adds a ton of damage to the set and all proc sets. They appear to not want to make a change to stop that, so preventing the Caluurian proc from being able to interact with it is the right call.

So the reason to keep crit proc chance is bc of malacath? I just want to make sure that what im reading is the reason to keep it out of hands of other mag players unless they build crit is bc of a mythic item?

I don't know where you get the bold from? Everyone has crit chance unless you are wearing malacath. This set will proc and is very usable by every mag class on live right now. There is nothing with the conditions of this set that stop it from being effective on any mag class.

my comment about that was unless a mag class builds for crit it is not a reliable burst damage for pvp. NB can time it (i do it now) a crit build can time it for the most [part to proc when ready to burst. if malacath is the culprit then that should be handled not keeping the set niche

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

i see everyone saying it will do more than 20k dmage in pvp it will not

Well it won't actually hit for that much, but the tooltip on the PTS on my magblade is 21,158 — so with Malacath it's around a 26.5k tooltip.

After battle spirit and target resistances it will be lower than that, but that tooltip is still higher than both of my ults.

Also for the record. Icy conjuror has similar tool tip of damage and does not require Crit to proc. So again nobody has a valid reason to say reinstate the Crit chance except for malacath boosts it up yet the other proc sets are untouched on both mag and stam except for caal leg? I’m not buying it gentleman. Either stam users are in here on this thread and are terrified of a light armor dps bursting them down in cyrodil or someone wants to keep this set exclusive to Crit builds and nbs. I have provided compare and contrast of stam vs caal with regard to dps numbers over a specific instance of 10 seconds and compared another magic set with almost identical tool tip damage. So I ask again. Why are you magic users calling to keep the Crit chance proc after I have given the counter arguments above?

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Also for the record. Icy conjuror has similar tool tip of damage and does not require Crit to proc. So again nobody has a valid reason to say reinstate the Crit chance except for malacath boosts it up yet the other proc sets are untouched on both mag and stam except for caal leg? I’m not buying it gentleman. Either stam users are in here on this thread and are terrified of a light armor dps bursting them down in cyrodil or someone wants to keep this set exclusive to Crit builds and nbs. I have provided compare and contrast of stam vs caal with regard to dps numbers over a specific instance of 10 seconds and compared another magic set with almost identical tool tip damage. So I ask again. Why are you magic users calling to keep the Crit chance proc after I have given the counter arguments above?

So what if Caluurion has the same tooltip as Icy Conjurer? That's like comparing Mike Tyson to my sister. If my sister punched you 8 times in a row she might technically wind up hitting you with the same amount of force as one punch from Tyson, but it definitely won't be as deadly.

Also, the proc requirements for Icy Conjurer are more stringent than Caluurion. Any skill, enchantment, or light attack can crit — minor debuffs are more difficult to come by. So it's just a bad comparison all around.

A better comparison would be the (old) Dizzying Swing vs Poison Injection. Before ZOS dumbed it down, Dizzy was difficult to land — but you were rewarded witg big damage and a stun if you did land it. Poison Injection is easy to land, and the damage it does is pretty average. No one complains about poison Injection, and barely anyone complained about old Dizzy. However once ZOS dumbed down Dizzy to the point it's at now, (similar to what you want to do with Caluurion) everyone hates/complains about it. It simply does too much damage, in too little time, for too little effort.

As far as you saying that no one has provided any valid arguments for there to be restrictions on the way Caluurion is procced, this thread is full of them — you're just unwilling to acknowledge them.