Datamining for Darkstorm.

MaisonNaevius · July 2020

I hear that the Second Empire style is inspired by Skingrad in TES IV. However, the exact name of the architectural style is clearly mentioned on the Strident Springs loading page: "Second Empire style".
Which makes sense: the Second Empire established colonies and they adopt its image.
Colovian architecture will emerge with Colovian Estates.

TheynT wrote: »

If I may shine a little more light on this whole dilemma:
The architecture division in Cyrodiil is seriously cursed.
City: Architecture | actual culture
Anvil: Nibenese | Colovian
Kvatch: Colovian | Colovian
Skingrad: ? | Colovian
Chorrol: Colovian | Colovian
Bravil: Nordic (entirely) | Nibenese-Colovian-Nordic
Imperial City: Heartlands | Heartlands
Cheydinhal: Colovian | Nibenese (actually it's the "capital" of Nibenay)
Bravil: Colovian | Nibenese
Leyawiin: ? | Nibenese

What you describe as "Second Empire" is really just colovian. ESOs colovian architecture is based upon Skingrads architecture in TES4.
So we got a wild mix of architectures in-game right now.

As for furniture:
The original "nibenese" furniture was rebranded to imperial furniture at release. It is however still named "nibenese" in the game files.
There are some "colovian" furniture things in the game files by now, mostly things that were added with and are thematically close to the DLC Dark brotherhood. (So DB and Order of the Hour things).

Bravil is currently Breton. Not Nordic.
It is not known what Leyawiin will look like.
Gideon was seen with the Nibenese style before cancellation.

MaisonNaevius · July 2020

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

And I get ninjad by Theyn so i'll shorten it to this
Colovian Furnishings found on live.

Very interesting !

If the architectural style "Second Empire" is Colovian. Why not immediately change the description of "Strider Springs"? Because it is the only official mention of the name of the architecture of the buildings.
If it's "colovian style", update it.

For furniture, it is very interesting that it is the Colovian style.

For the buildings of the Second Empire style in Nibenay, they are always accompanied by Nibenese furniture. However, you find "Second Empire" wells and lanterns. (it is not mentioned that they are Colovians on the list).
In Colovia, they are accompanied by Colovian furniture.
The Colovian style is the "green" piece of furniture with a sort of holly and a Greek-type ornamental motif.

Note that we do not even have the Nibenese throne. It is the Breton throne which was presented because the same colors.

bluebird · July 2020

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Falkreath I don't even know if it's even canon to have anything Colovian there given ESO and Skyrim hasn't brought it up and are more doubling down on Nords who celebrate death. Plus Bruma being Nord then Nibenese cutting off Colovias border with Falkreath.

Falkreath becomes part of the Colovian Estates sometime after ESO. King Cuhlecain started as the ruler of Falkreath and reunited Colovia and eventually the whole of Cyrodiil with his general, Talos.

ZoS has put more effort into them given the Colovian and Nibenese furnishings (Nibenese got renamed to Imperial and the Colovian one got yeeted from player access), architecture and etc.

That only applies to the Lamps. There were two types of Imperial lamps, and the player-obtainable one was decided to be the second one as below. So we can get lamps that match Grand Linchal for example, but not lamps that match Strident Springs, Domus Phrasticus, Cyrodillic Jungle House.

But to say that Imperial furniture doubled down on Nibenese isn't entirely correct, because almost all Imperial furniture are just a recolor of Breton (apart from that lamp above and some Divine's banners). Breton is already a disappointment, as many Alinor style items should have been Breton instead (as they are straight-up High Medieval-Gothic Western European pieces), and Imperial is a double disappointment because it's just a copy of Breton. So neither Colovian nor Nibenese styles are represented ingame. And they should be, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for next year. I hope we see some proper wonderful Imperial content finally!

There was Colovian and Nibenese furnishings the issues is they cut the Colovian one and renamed the Nibenese to Imperial (it still comes up under Nibenese if you use the search tool).
Example

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

And I get ninjad by Theyn so i'll shorten it to this
Colovian Furnishings found on live.

Nope. As I said, that only applied to Lamps. There were a couple of lamps that would have matched Colovian/secondEmpire/whateveryouwanttocallit Strident Springs style, as the one in my post.

But there was never, at any point on the PTS, a Colovian or second Empite furniture style. And there still isn't a Nibenese style. Imperial furniture are a recolor of Breton. The ones in your picture that you label 'Colovian', are also a recolour of Breton. And the few 'Nibenese' items that you see on live weren't a replacement for Colovian, because they never made a Colovian style.

Clearly, you can see the 'Nibenese' wells and pedestals on the PTS were renamed Imperial on live, but not instead of Colovian, because those didn't exist at all. In fact, even as early as 1 day after the PTS was released we have videos that show that Imperial style was always going to be 'Imperial'. For example you can see 2:33 in the video that it's an 'Imperial Simple Chair'.

https://youtu.be/TnoHVAFCyAw
So the current 'Imperial' furniture are NOT Nibenese, they are a simply a Breton recolor. The Imperial furniture were clearly based on the Breton houses and furniture, not Grand Linchal (Nibenese) or Strident Springs (Colovian/second Empire). The few actually Nibenese (white marble, very Roman) furniture we do have are statues and wells and the like, and they didn't replace Colovian, because there was never any Colovian wells/statues/etc on the PTS.

Faulgor · July 2020

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

that also means that a large portion between eastern and western skyrim remains open..was hoping this update would close that and reveal / finish all of skyrim on the map...

its also a bit weird to be hoenst, I mean what lies between western and eastern skyrim? Middle skyrim? who rules there?

Is White run ruled by a third King or who does it belong to?

And why is the area between eastern and western Skyrim so huge? If you look on the map of Skyrim it should only contain the slim sliver containing whiterun and dawnstar...

One sidequest in greymoor (i think its the riggurt one) basicly comfirmed that whiterun is part of eastern skyrim
The pale and falkreat hold(exept the town of the same name) are also missing

I didn't get the impression that Whiterun is part of the East from that quest. If anything it seemed to be independent, which is bad enough as far as retcons go.
Falkreath is also strangely unmentioned in Greymoor, even though it should be part of the West at this time as well.

If Western Skyrim was indeed sundered like this, there should be mention of the events that lead to this, but there's nothing.

TheynT · July 2020

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Falkreath I don't even know if it's even canon to have anything Colovian there given ESO and Skyrim hasn't brought it up and are more doubling down on Nords who celebrate death. Plus Bruma being Nord then Nibenese cutting off Colovias border with Falkreath.

Falkreath becomes part of the Colovian Estates sometime after ESO. King Cuhlecain started as the ruler of Falkreath and reunited Colovia and eventually the whole of Cyrodiil with his general, Talos.

ZoS has put more effort into them given the Colovian and Nibenese furnishings (Nibenese got renamed to Imperial and the Colovian one got yeeted from player access), architecture and etc.

That only applies to the Lamps. There were two types of Imperial lamps, and the player-obtainable one was decided to be the second one as below. So we can get lamps that match Grand Linchal for example, but not lamps that match Strident Springs, Domus Phrasticus, Cyrodillic Jungle House.

But to say that Imperial furniture doubled down on Nibenese isn't entirely correct, because almost all Imperial furniture are just a recolor of Breton (apart from that lamp above and some Divine's banners). Breton is already a disappointment, as many Alinor style items should have been Breton instead (as they are straight-up High Medieval-Gothic Western European pieces), and Imperial is a double disappointment because it's just a copy of Breton. So neither Colovian nor Nibenese styles are represented ingame. And they should be, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for next year. I hope we see some proper wonderful Imperial content finally!

There was Colovian and Nibenese furnishings the issues is they cut the Colovian one and renamed the Nibenese to Imperial (it still comes up under Nibenese if you use the search tool).
Example

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

And I get ninjad by Theyn so i'll shorten it to this
Colovian Furnishings found on live.

Nope. As I said, that only applied to Lamps. There were a couple of lamps that would have matched Colovian/secondEmpire/whateveryouwanttocallit Strident Springs style, as the one in my post.

But there was never, at any point on the PTS, a Colovian or second Empite furniture style. And there still isn't a Nibenese style. Imperial furniture are a recolor of Breton. The ones in your picture that you label 'Colovian', are also a recolour of Breton. And the few 'Nibenese' items that you see on live weren't a replacement for Colovian, because they never made a Colovian style.

Clearly, you can see the 'Nibenese' wells and pedestals on the PTS were renamed Imperial on live, but not instead of Colovian, because those didn't exist at all. In fact, even as early as 1 day after the PTS was released we have videos that show that Imperial style was always going to be 'Imperial'. For example you can see 2:33 in the video that it's an 'Imperial Simple Chair'.
https://youtu.be/TnoHVAFCyAw
So the current 'Imperial' furniture are NOT Nibenese, they are a simply a Breton recolor. The Imperial furniture were clearly based on the Breton houses and furniture, not Grand Linchal (Nibenese) or Strident Springs (Colovian/second Empire). The few actually Nibenese (white marble, very Roman) furniture we do have are statues and wells and the like, and they didn't replace Colovian, because there was never any Colovian wells/statues/etc on the PTS.

Those are the imperial furniture icons in the game files. They are called... well you can see for yourself

bluebird · July 2020

TheynT wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Falkreath I don't even know if it's even canon to have anything Colovian there given ESO and Skyrim hasn't brought it up and are more doubling down on Nords who celebrate death. Plus Bruma being Nord then Nibenese cutting off Colovias border with Falkreath.

Falkreath becomes part of the Colovian Estates sometime after ESO. King Cuhlecain started as the ruler of Falkreath and reunited Colovia and eventually the whole of Cyrodiil with his general, Talos.

ZoS has put more effort into them given the Colovian and Nibenese furnishings (Nibenese got renamed to Imperial and the Colovian one got yeeted from player access), architecture and etc.

That only applies to the Lamps. There were two types of Imperial lamps, and the player-obtainable one was decided to be the second one as below. So we can get lamps that match Grand Linchal for example, but not lamps that match Strident Springs, Domus Phrasticus, Cyrodillic Jungle House.

But to say that Imperial furniture doubled down on Nibenese isn't entirely correct, because almost all Imperial furniture are just a recolor of Breton (apart from that lamp above and some Divine's banners). Breton is already a disappointment, as many Alinor style items should have been Breton instead (as they are straight-up High Medieval-Gothic Western European pieces), and Imperial is a double disappointment because it's just a copy of Breton. So neither Colovian nor Nibenese styles are represented ingame. And they should be, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for next year. I hope we see some proper wonderful Imperial content finally!

There was Colovian and Nibenese furnishings the issues is they cut the Colovian one and renamed the Nibenese to Imperial (it still comes up under Nibenese if you use the search tool).
Example

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

And I get ninjad by Theyn so i'll shorten it to this
Colovian Furnishings found on live.

Nope. As I said, that only applied to Lamps. There were a couple of lamps that would have matched Colovian/secondEmpire/whateveryouwanttocallit Strident Springs style, as the one in my post.

But there was never, at any point on the PTS, a Colovian or second Empite furniture style. And there still isn't a Nibenese style. Imperial furniture are a recolor of Breton. The ones in your picture that you label 'Colovian', are also a recolour of Breton. And the few 'Nibenese' items that you see on live weren't a replacement for Colovian, because they never made a Colovian style.

Clearly, you can see the 'Nibenese' wells and pedestals on the PTS were renamed Imperial on live, but not instead of Colovian, because those didn't exist at all. In fact, even as early as 1 day after the PTS was released we have videos that show that Imperial style was always going to be 'Imperial'. For example you can see 2:33 in the video that it's an 'Imperial Simple Chair'.
https://youtu.be/TnoHVAFCyAw
So the current 'Imperial' furniture are NOT Nibenese, they are a simply a Breton recolor. The Imperial furniture were clearly based on the Breton houses and furniture, not Grand Linchal (Nibenese) or Strident Springs (Colovian/second Empire). The few actually Nibenese (white marble, very Roman) furniture we do have are statues and wells and the like, and they didn't replace Colovian, because there was never any Colovian wells/statues/etc on the PTS.

Those are the imperial furniture icons in the game files. They are called... well you can see for yourself

I already addressed this... Gaius linked an image of old furniture in the files that are labeled 'Col', you showed me that some Imperial furniture are labeled 'Nib'... and I already told you both, those are both just a Breton reskin, not actually a Colovian OR Nibenese style. Surely you can clearly see that, right?

bluebird wrote: »

But there was never, at any point on the PTS, a Colovian or second Empire furniture style. And there still isn't a Nibenese style. Imperial furniture are a recolor of Breton. The ones in your picture that you label 'Colovian', are also a recolour of Breton. And the few 'Nibenese' items that you see on live weren't a replacement for Colovian, because they never made a Colovian style.

As I said, the few items that are genuinely Nibenese (white marble, clearly Roman inspired) were called Nibenese on the PTS too, and they had no Colovian alternatives. So the few actually Nibenese Wells and Shrines didn't replace Colovian, because no Colovian versions existed. The only Colovian items that we saw on the PTS were a few Lamps that they later replaced, as per my original post.

But clearly, neither Colovian NOR Nibenese has a furnishing style ingame. So if and when they add an Imperial Chapter, they could (and should) add both Colovian AND Nibenese furniture instead of the cheapo Breton recolours. That's my point. It's not like Nibenese has a distinct furnishing style ingame and it's only Colovian that needs the love.

MaisonNaevius · July 2020

We agree that the Imperial Furnishing style is the same as the Breton style but recoloured.
- Blue: Breton
- Green: Colovian
- Red: Nibenese

But I don't stop at the idea that it's a Breton style. It's like meta in RP. From the RP point of view, these are not Breton pieces of furniture even if the base is the same and only the colors diverge.
The official and canonical name of the furniture is clearly defined on the screens: colovian and nibenese.

We will certainly have new furniture for Colovians and Nibenese in chapter themed imperial. But in the meantime ... And for consistency with but buildings of the Second Empire, I would have liked the game to offer Colovian furniture in the crown store.
At the time, I planned to replace all of the Nibenais furniture (then all moved to Linchal) by Colovian furniture in my various green houses. But I have a feeling we'll never get them.

TheynT · July 2020

bluebird wrote: »

[...] those are both just a Breton reskin, not actually a Colovian OR Nibenese style. Surely you can clearly see that, right? [...]

Welcome to the grim reality that ever since TES IV: Oblivion was released, Breton and Imperial culture were mixed and used interchangeably. Just because those furnitures are reskins of breton furniture doesn't make them less imperial. They are tagged as imperial, they are found all over Cyrodiil, they are found all over cyrodiilic Cities and Buildings outside of Cyrodiil.

Sure, I too wish for some "actual" Nibenese and Colovian stuff. But for now: these things are Nibenese and Colovian.

bluebird · July 2020

Maki2859 wrote: »

We will certainly have new furniture for Colovians and Nibenese in chapter themed imperial. But in the meantime ... And for consistency with but buildings of the Second Empire, I would have liked the game to offer Colovian furniture in the crown store.

TheynT wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

[...] those are both just a Breton reskin, not actually a Colovian OR Nibenese style. Surely you can clearly see that, right? [...]

Just because those furnitures are reskins of breton furniture doesn't make them less imperial.

Just because they use those reskinned Breton furniture in Imperial houses doesn't make them Imperial.

ZOS managed to come up with unique and diverse furniture styles for styles previously unsees in TES, and a lot of variety even within the same culture (compare High and and Alinor High Elf, Dark Elf and Vvardenfell Dark Elf, Khajiit and Elsweyr Khajiit). So there is really no excuse for recolouring Breton and calling it Nibenese or Colovian. The distinct Lamps in my post, as well as the distinct Wells, and of course the architecture, shows that Imperial culture and style is different from Breton, they just didn't bother to make furniture that represent it aesthetically.

This is likely due to the fact that Imperials were always the 'ugly stepchild' of ESO, not even part of the base game, no zones or storylines dedicated to them like the other races got in vanilla. So when they made the assets for the base game (and the furniture that eventually became part of player housing are based on those vanilla assets) they backed themselves into a corner because they took the easy way out and just copy-pasted Breton furniture initially; so they couldn't just conjure up a matching Nibenese style for Linchal, and a matching Colovian style for Strident Springs.

Because the 'Imperial' style we got isn't Nibenese, no matter what a file name says. Feel free to walk into Grand Linchal and you'll see that the 'Nibenese' Imperial' furniture don't match that house, any more than Imperial matches Strident Springs. You'll find better matches for Linchal with Ayleid, Alinor, and even Hlaalu (some curved benches and chairs look quite Romanesque) than with Imperial. Exception of course being the Lamps, wells, and shrines as I mentioned.

Now, since this thread is about the future, and the upcoming Imperial hints the game was dropping, I was naturally focusing on the future possibility for an actual Nibenese and Colovian style, rather than what the game files decided to call Breton recolours (ZOS could have added a recolor of High Elf furniture to Valenwood and called it 'Eastern Elf style', that still wouldn't have made it a Wood Elf style).

And I'm quite aware that Breton and Imperial are wishy-washy, that's why I insisted they should create a distinct style (easier for Nibenese, harder for Colovian):

bluebird wrote: »

Maki2859 wrote: »

Strident Springs, Domus Phrasticus, Cyrodillic Jungle House... are second Empire architecture. No colovian X)

I don't know if we'll have the furniture from the Second Empire.

One thing is certain ... We will have new furniture. The architecture of the Second Empire could be abandoned ... Even if Istirus adopts it (exception?).

The issue with creating Colovian will be its potential overlap with Breton. As we see in Oblivion, many of the architecture features are pretty generic, which is already similar to Breton castles and houses. So if they want to make a style that is clearly not Nibenese, does not overlap with the Colovian style we currently see ingame in Colovia, and will be distinct enough from Breton so that everyone can tell at first glance that it's supposed to be Imperial, it will be a challenge.

So I think we all agree distinct actually Imperial styles would be nice to add in the Chapter, instead of the Breton recolours we got right? I simply objected to the idea that Nibenese is overrepresented because it 'replaced' Colovian, when that's absolutely not the case. Imperial furniture do not match Nibenese houses any more than they match Colovian/2ndEmpire hosues ingame (in fact, the 'Imperial' furniture we have now fit in with the Colovian/2ndEmpire houses far MORE than with Linchal). And the 'Colovan' files were just as generically non-Imperial-Breton as the 'Nibenese' generically non-Imperial-Breton ones we got on Live. Basically, I think we all want the same thing: a proper Nibenese style and a proper Colovian style that is different from each other and more importantly different from Breton.

KingArthasMenethil · July 2020

Nibenese furnishings is already ingame they just renamed it to Imperial for "clarity" and it still comes up on the search function when you search for "Nibenese" as shown in my screenshot.

As this screenshot is recent and as you can see searching for Nibenese brings that up and searching for Colovian brings nothing up. I'll go pull up some new screenshots and edit them in under a spoiler tag.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2
"Renamed Colovian and Nibenese furniture to Imperial, to improve clarity."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314042/why-were-colovian-furnishings-removed-now-imperial-homes-have-no-furniture/p1
UPDATE: As of PTS patch 2.7.2 all Colovian furnishings have been removed from the game, meaning that the Imperial homes don't have a native furniture style anymore (you need to mix and match using other racial styles).

Edit:
For some reason it's not liking me editing in images so direct links will have to do.

Nibenese
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1460806828044152047/96700F9EF0191D038E7D4E28143AC9DE55785006/
Colovian
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1460806828044151023/F37C761C36CDF2052903ABC2A272979E4F0226CD/

MaisonNaevius · July 2020

I come back to the architectural style. Here is the one and only reliable source which qualifies this architecture as being "second Empire style".

This fortified manor between Arenthia and Skingrad at the headwaters of the Strid River should satisfy all those who aspire to the life of the landed gentry. Inside the gatehouse you'll find gardens, a waterfall, and a mansion in Second Empire style.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Strident_Springs_Demesne

Just because he looks like Skingrad in TES IV doesn't mean he's Colovian.
As for the source used by the uesp of "Cohort Briefing: Arenthia", it never mentions the architecture. She talks about the local resources that were used to build Arenthia.

In the past, the city's allegiance has changed as often as the wind, but the flimsy Khajiiti hovels and the Elves' temporary tree-shaping don't endure like the good Colovian stone from which most of the lasting structures are built.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Cohort_Briefing:_Arenthia

EDIT : Outside of Colovia, this Second Empire architecture can be found everywhere in Cyrodiil PvP and in the former colonies. To say it is Colovian is nonsense.

To say that the imperial vanilla styles of the furniture are Breton ... It's like meta in RP.
They are labeled Colovian or Nibenese. Not Breton even if it is the same furniture with different colors and ornamental patterns.
Think like the NPCs in the game. They'll say it's Colovian or Nibenese. But certainly not Breton.

We all want new Colovian or Nibenese furniture. It is true. Even if we will only have the Colovian or Nibenese style depending on where the annual adventure will take place (Colovia or Nibenay?)
But old furniture is still essential for old houses. The new furniture will not stick well ... Even less if you want to do something that serves in RP.

bluebird · July 2020

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Nibenese furnishings is already ingame they just renamed it to Imperial for "clarity" and it still comes up on the search function when you search for "Nibenese" as shown in my screenshot.

As this screenshot is recent and as you can see searching for Nibenese brings that up and searching for Colovian brings nothing up. I'll go pull up some new screenshots and edit them in under a spoiler tag.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2
"Renamed Colovian and Nibenese furniture to Imperial, to improve clarity."

Erm... I already addressed it. You posted literally the same picture, and I posted a reply with pictures and an explanation, myself. Not sure if y'all don't read anything I say or what, but I guess I'll have to make an infographic, lol to make it clear what we're actually talking about, cause it seems like we're going in circles.

Forgive my shoddy editing skills, and do click the image to enlarge it if the embedded version is too small.
But here we go:
1) Breton furniture are clearly Breton, I think we have no arguments there (wood, red fabric).
2) The 'Colovian' furniture in the files are just recoloured Breton furniture (wood, green fabric).
3) The 'Nibenese' furniture are just recoloured Breton furniture (paler wood, orange fabric).
4) Any actual 'Nibenese' furniture (Roman-like) like the Statues, Wells and Pedestals (as I mentioned already, so you don't need to link me the same image over and over to convince me that those are indeed Nibenese) didn't take the place of Colovian furniture, because there were never any Colovian wells etc. available to players.

5) So apart from the Lamps, which did have Colovian variants to match Strident Springs and co., and Nibenese variants to match Linchal and co., which were later replaced to only have the Nibenese variants, neither the 'Colovian' nor 'Nibenese' furniture are distinctly Imperial. You're arguing about which Breton recolor was arbitrarily assigned a sequence of letters in the files.

6) Furthermore, the 'Imperial' furniture we have on Live do not mis-match the Colovian style. I know you will insists that 'but those are called Nibenese in the files' but that doesn't matter. It's a Breton recolor, so please just ignore those three little letters in a file name, and look at the actual images.

Look at that picture of Domus Phrasticus on Live (in the mish-mash pic I made above). Now compare that with Linchal on Live. Which Imperial architectural style, do you think matches the 'Imperial' furniture more? Colovian does. Do the 'Imperial' Nibenese-because-they-have-those-three-letters-in-their-name variants look 'not at home'' in Strident Springs? No, they fit in actually. Would a greener version have looked better in the Colovian houses? Sure. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture look out of place in the Colovian houses? No. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese ones? Yes.

Same with Strident Springs. So if we could only mentally detach ourself from which 3 random letters appear next to the files names of some arbitrary Breton recolours, we'd see that Imperial 'Nibenese file name' furniture aren't actually more or less Nibenese than Colovian; and upon closer examination, they actually match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese houses or the rest of the actually Nibense furniture (white, Roman-like).

TheynT · July 2020

Maki2859 wrote: »

I come back to the architectural style. Here is the one and only reliable source which qualifies this architecture as being "second Empire style".

Oh I totally agree on this point. This architecture stems from the time of the Second Empire.
But upon which of the two cultures was this Empire heavily relying on? What culture did the royal family (at least in the beginning) belong to? What culture is the backbone of the Imperial Legion, the organisation that brought streets, fortifications and colonies into different regions?

Olauron · July 2020

bluebird wrote: »

Because the 'Imperial' style we got isn't Nibenese, no matter what a file name says. Feel free to walk into Grand Linchal and you'll see that the 'Nibenese' Imperial' furniture don't match that house, any more than Imperial matches Strident Springs. You'll find better matches for Linchal with Ayleid, Alinor, and even Hlaalu (some curved benches and chairs look quite Romanesque) than with Imperial. Exception of course being the Lamps, wells, and shrines as I mentioned.

Well, that's because Anvil style has common motifs with Imperial City style, and Imperial City style is the descendant of Ayleid style.

TheynT · July 2020

Olauron wrote: »

Well, that's because Anvil style has common motifs with Imperial City style, and Imperial City style is the descendant of Ayleid style.

That Throne was built and used by the Ayleids though...

MaisonNaevius · July 2020

TheynT wrote: »

Oh I totally agree on this point. This architecture stems from the time of the Second Empire.
But upon which of the two cultures was this Empire heavily relying on? What culture did the royal family (at least in the beginning) belong to? What culture is the backbone of the Imperial Legion, the organisation that brought streets, fortifications and colonies into different regions?

The Colovians are the armed wing of the Empire. But you can't say it's Colovian architecture if an official name is given.

The Colovians conquered many lands in the name of the Second Empire. Not the contrary.

For the Imperials, you have three types of wells. Here are the Nibenese versions and the Colovian equivalent (or Second Empire).

You always have a variant.
https://esolegionimperiale.forumactif.com/t329-liste-screenshots-meubles-imperiaux

Olauron · July 2020

TheynT wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Well, that's because Anvil style has common motifs with Imperial City style, and Imperial City style is the descendant of Ayleid style.

That Throne was built and used by the Ayleids though...

It is not just the throne. It is columns, arches and walls. Of course, WTG was built by Ayleids. And the IC around it was built in common style, that is not pure Ayleid, not pure Alinor, but common enough to be appropriate.

KingArthasMenethil · July 2020

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Nibenese furnishings is already ingame they just renamed it to Imperial for "clarity" and it still comes up on the search function when you search for "Nibenese" as shown in my screenshot.

As this screenshot is recent and as you can see searching for Nibenese brings that up and searching for Colovian brings nothing up. I'll go pull up some new screenshots and edit them in under a spoiler tag.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2
"Renamed Colovian and Nibenese furniture to Imperial, to improve clarity."

Erm... I already addressed it. You posted literally the same picture, and I posted a reply with pictures and an explanation, myself. Not sure if y'all don't read anything I say or what, but I guess I'll have to make an infographic, lol to make it clear what we're actually talking about, cause it seems like we're going in circles.

Forgive my shoddy editing skills, and do click the image to enlarge it if the embedded version is too small.
But here we go:
1) Breton furniture are clearly Breton, I think we have no arguments there (wood, red fabric).
2) The 'Colovian' furniture in the files are just recoloured Breton furniture (wood, green fabric).
3) The 'Nibenese' furniture are just recoloured Breton furniture (paler wood, orange fabric).
4) Any actual 'Nibenese' furniture (Roman-like) like the Statues, Wells and Pedestals (as I mentioned already, so you don't need to link me the same image over and over to convince me that those are indeed Nibenese) didn't take the place of Colovian furniture, because there were never any Colovian wells etc. available to players.

5) So apart from the Lamps, which did have Colovian variants to match Strident Springs and co., and Nibenese variants to match Linchal and co., which were later replaced to only have the Nibenese variants, neither the 'Colovian' nor 'Nibenese' furniture are distinctly Imperial. You're arguing about which Breton recolor was arbitrarily assigned a sequence of letters in the files.

6) Furthermore, the 'Imperial' furniture we have on Live do not mis-match the Colovian style. I know you will insists that 'but those are called Nibenese in the files' but that doesn't matter. It's a Breton recolor, so please just ignore those three little letters in a file name, and look at the actual images.

Look at that picture of Domus Phrasticus on Live (in the mish-mash pic I made above). Now compare that with Linchal on Live. Which Imperial architectural style, do you think matches the 'Imperial' furniture more? Colovian does. Do the 'Imperial' Nibenese-because-they-have-those-three-letters-in-their-name variants look 'not at home'' in Strident Springs? No, they fit in actually. Would a greener version have looked better in the Colovian houses? Sure. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture look out of place in the Colovian houses? No. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese ones? Yes.

Same with Strident Springs. So if we could only mentally detach ourself from which 3 random letters appear next to the files names of some arbitrary Breton recolours, we'd see that Imperial 'Nibenese file name' furniture aren't actually more or less Nibenese than Colovian; and upon closer examination, they actually match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese houses or the rest of the actually Nibense furniture (white, Roman-like).

Here's the thing it doesn't matter if it is a "recolour" it's Colovian or Nibenese because this is ZoS in base game they made the assets with all the other base game assets that came along with stuff like Pelagiad being name dropped in base game, Ayleid ruins removing Direnni and Aldmer ruins (renamed later and also nearly making the Adamantine/Direnni Tower Ayleid in the original version of the main quest).

KingArthasMenethil · July 2020

Olauron wrote: »

TheynT wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Well, that's because Anvil style has common motifs with Imperial City style, and Imperial City style is the descendant of Ayleid style.

That Throne was built and used by the Ayleids though...

It is not just the throne. It is columns, arches and walls. Of course, WTG was built by Ayleids. And the IC around it was built in common style, that is not pure Ayleid, not pure Alinor, but common enough to be appropriate.

We do have a line about it though
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Crafting_Motif_10:_Imperial_Style
The Imperial City, except for the walls and the Tower, which are Ayleid, is … Nibenese. Refined. Decorative. Subtle. Nuanced.

Olauron · July 2020

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

TheynT wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Well, that's because Anvil style has common motifs with Imperial City style, and Imperial City style is the descendant of Ayleid style.

That Throne was built and used by the Ayleids though...

It is not just the throne. It is columns, arches and walls. Of course, WTG was built by Ayleids. And the IC around it was built in common style, that is not pure Ayleid, not pure Alinor, but common enough to be appropriate.

We do have a line about it though
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Crafting_Motif_10:_Imperial_Style
The Imperial City, except for the walls and the Tower, which are Ayleid, is … Nibenese. Refined. Decorative. Subtle. Nuanced.

I guess we should be glad it is not orcish. Digital paper can hold anything. Still, there are two main Nibenese cities (Bravil and Leyawiin) and those have nothing in common with the IC.

KingArthasMenethil · July 2020

Olauron wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

TheynT wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Well, that's because Anvil style has common motifs with Imperial City style, and Imperial City style is the descendant of Ayleid style.

That Throne was built and used by the Ayleids though...

It is not just the throne. It is columns, arches and walls. Of course, WTG was built by Ayleids. And the IC around it was built in common style, that is not pure Ayleid, not pure Alinor, but common enough to be appropriate.

We do have a line about it though
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Crafting_Motif_10:_Imperial_Style
The Imperial City, except for the walls and the Tower, which are Ayleid, is … Nibenese. Refined. Decorative. Subtle. Nuanced.

I guess we should be glad it is not orcish. Digital paper can hold anything. Still, there are two main Nibenese cities (Bravil and Leyawiin) and those have nothing in common with the IC.

Have to thank Oblivion for that (for the zero pattern for the Cultures and the IC being Nibenese).
Imperial culture was so non-existent that Colovia and Nibenay has no patterns within itself.

Olauron · July 2020

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

TheynT wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Well, that's because Anvil style has common motifs with Imperial City style, and Imperial City style is the descendant of Ayleid style.

That Throne was built and used by the Ayleids though...

It is not just the throne. It is columns, arches and walls. Of course, WTG was built by Ayleids. And the IC around it was built in common style, that is not pure Ayleid, not pure Alinor, but common enough to be appropriate.

We do have a line about it though
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Crafting_Motif_10:_Imperial_Style
The Imperial City, except for the walls and the Tower, which are Ayleid, is … Nibenese. Refined. Decorative. Subtle. Nuanced.

I guess we should be glad it is not orcish. Digital paper can hold anything. Still, there are two main Nibenese cities (Bravil and Leyawiin) and those have nothing in common with the IC.

Have to thank Oblivion for that (for the zero pattern for the Cultures and the IC being Nibenese).
Imperial culture was so non-existent that Colovia and Nibenay has no patterns within itself.

I thank TES 4:Oblivion every day that it has much better and much more thought out imperial cities than ESO.
- Though Cheydinhal lies in the Nibenean East, its culture is shaped by the Dark Elf immigrants who emigrated here in the past half century from Morrowind.
- Bruma is understood to be a Nibenese county, but in truth it is more Nord than Nibenese, on account of its close proximity to the Skyrim border, and on account of the terrible cold and discomfort of its location high in the Jerall Mountains.
- The architecture of the town [Bravil] is remarkable for its unequalled ugliness and disorder.
- Skingrad is the gem of Old Colovia, and a model of the Colovian virtues of independence, hardwork, and tough-mindedness.

bluebird · July 2020

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Nibenese furnishings is already ingame they just renamed it to Imperial for "clarity" and it still comes up on the search function when you search for "Nibenese" as shown in my screenshot.

As this screenshot is recent and as you can see searching for Nibenese brings that up and searching for Colovian brings nothing up. I'll go pull up some new screenshots and edit them in under a spoiler tag.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2
"Renamed Colovian and Nibenese furniture to Imperial, to improve clarity."

Erm... I already addressed it. You posted literally the same picture, and I posted a reply with pictures and an explanation, myself. Not sure if y'all don't read anything I say or what, but I guess I'll have to make an infographic, lol to make it clear what we're actually talking about, cause it seems like we're going in circles.

Forgive my shoddy editing skills, and do click the image to enlarge it if the embedded version is too small.
But here we go:
1) Breton furniture are clearly Breton, I think we have no arguments there (wood, red fabric).
2) The 'Colovian' furniture in the files are just recoloured Breton furniture (wood, green fabric).
3) The 'Nibenese' furniture are just recoloured Breton furniture (paler wood, orange fabric).
4) Any actual 'Nibenese' furniture (Roman-like) like the Statues, Wells and Pedestals (as I mentioned already, so you don't need to link me the same image over and over to convince me that those are indeed Nibenese) didn't take the place of Colovian furniture, because there were never any Colovian wells etc. available to players.

5) So apart from the Lamps, which did have Colovian variants to match Strident Springs and co., and Nibenese variants to match Linchal and co., which were later replaced to only have the Nibenese variants, neither the 'Colovian' nor 'Nibenese' furniture are distinctly Imperial. You're arguing about which Breton recolor was arbitrarily assigned a sequence of letters in the files.

6) Furthermore, the 'Imperial' furniture we have on Live do not mis-match the Colovian style. I know you will insists that 'but those are called Nibenese in the files' but that doesn't matter. It's a Breton recolor, so please just ignore those three little letters in a file name, and look at the actual images.

Look at that picture of Domus Phrasticus on Live (in the mish-mash pic I made above). Now compare that with Linchal on Live. Which Imperial architectural style, do you think matches the 'Imperial' furniture more? Colovian does. Do the 'Imperial' Nibenese-because-they-have-those-three-letters-in-their-name variants look 'not at home'' in Strident Springs? No, they fit in actually. Would a greener version have looked better in the Colovian houses? Sure. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture look out of place in the Colovian houses? No. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese ones? Yes.

Same with Strident Springs. So if we could only mentally detach ourself from which 3 random letters appear next to the files names of some arbitrary Breton recolours, we'd see that Imperial 'Nibenese file name' furniture aren't actually more or less Nibenese than Colovian; and upon closer examination, they actually match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese houses or the rest of the actually Nibense furniture (white, Roman-like).

Here's the thing it doesn't matter if it is a "recolour" it's Colovian or Nibenese because this is ZoS in base game they made the assets with all the other base game assets that came along with stuff like Pelagiad being name dropped in base game, Ayleid ruins removing Direnni and Aldmer ruins (renamed later and also nearly making the Adamantine/Direnni Tower Ayleid in the original version of the main quest).

Here's the thing you're arguing about PTS data that never made it to Live and therefore isn't even Canon, and about remnant code in search fragments even though the items are called 'Imperial' on Live and would be called 'Imperial' not 'Nibenese' by NPCs too since that's the style ingame world which is what matters not the game data, and about the file names of nonexistent furniture that ZOS removed before ever implementing on Live.

Meanwhile I'm here pointing out that the so-called 'Nibenese' Imperial style that we got actually fits the Colovian houses too (or even more than the Nibenese ones) and doesn't fit in with the actually Nibenese style furniture (white stone, reliefs, often gilded or other decor, Roman style). So Nibenese is in far greater need for a furnishing style than Colovian, no matter what they initially wanted to call the one and only Imperial style we do have.

Ideally, of course, they will revamp both.

But a Colovian or 2ndEmpire -matching aesthethic is actually far more suitable and represented in the Imperial furniture that we did get on Live (speaking about the main furniture, not the handful of wells and statues as discussed which do show that those are distinctly Nibenese).

KingArthasMenethil · July 2020

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Nibenese furnishings is already ingame they just renamed it to Imperial for "clarity" and it still comes up on the search function when you search for "Nibenese" as shown in my screenshot.

As this screenshot is recent and as you can see searching for Nibenese brings that up and searching for Colovian brings nothing up. I'll go pull up some new screenshots and edit them in under a spoiler tag.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2
"Renamed Colovian and Nibenese furniture to Imperial, to improve clarity."

Erm... I already addressed it. You posted literally the same picture, and I posted a reply with pictures and an explanation, myself. Not sure if y'all don't read anything I say or what, but I guess I'll have to make an infographic, lol to make it clear what we're actually talking about, cause it seems like we're going in circles.

Forgive my shoddy editing skills, and do click the image to enlarge it if the embedded version is too small.
But here we go:
1) Breton furniture are clearly Breton, I think we have no arguments there (wood, red fabric).
2) The 'Colovian' furniture in the files are just recoloured Breton furniture (wood, green fabric).
3) The 'Nibenese' furniture are just recoloured Breton furniture (paler wood, orange fabric).
4) Any actual 'Nibenese' furniture (Roman-like) like the Statues, Wells and Pedestals (as I mentioned already, so you don't need to link me the same image over and over to convince me that those are indeed Nibenese) didn't take the place of Colovian furniture, because there were never any Colovian wells etc. available to players.

5) So apart from the Lamps, which did have Colovian variants to match Strident Springs and co., and Nibenese variants to match Linchal and co., which were later replaced to only have the Nibenese variants, neither the 'Colovian' nor 'Nibenese' furniture are distinctly Imperial. You're arguing about which Breton recolor was arbitrarily assigned a sequence of letters in the files.

6) Furthermore, the 'Imperial' furniture we have on Live do not mis-match the Colovian style. I know you will insists that 'but those are called Nibenese in the files' but that doesn't matter. It's a Breton recolor, so please just ignore those three little letters in a file name, and look at the actual images.

Look at that picture of Domus Phrasticus on Live (in the mish-mash pic I made above). Now compare that with Linchal on Live. Which Imperial architectural style, do you think matches the 'Imperial' furniture more? Colovian does. Do the 'Imperial' Nibenese-because-they-have-those-three-letters-in-their-name variants look 'not at home'' in Strident Springs? No, they fit in actually. Would a greener version have looked better in the Colovian houses? Sure. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture look out of place in the Colovian houses? No. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese ones? Yes.

Same with Strident Springs. So if we could only mentally detach ourself from which 3 random letters appear next to the files names of some arbitrary Breton recolours, we'd see that Imperial 'Nibenese file name' furniture aren't actually more or less Nibenese than Colovian; and upon closer examination, they actually match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese houses or the rest of the actually Nibense furniture (white, Roman-like).

Here's the thing it doesn't matter if it is a "recolour" it's Colovian or Nibenese because this is ZoS in base game they made the assets with all the other base game assets that came along with stuff like Pelagiad being name dropped in base game, Ayleid ruins removing Direnni and Aldmer ruins (renamed later and also nearly making the Adamantine/Direnni Tower Ayleid in the original version of the main quest).

Here's the thing you're arguing about PTS data that never made it to Live and therefore isn't even Canon, and about remnant code in search fragments even though the items are called 'Imperial' on Live and would be called 'Imperial' not 'Nibenese' by NPCs too since that's the style ingame world which is what matters not the game data, and about the file names of nonexistent furniture that ZOS removed before ever implementing on Live.

Meanwhile I'm here pointing out that the so-called 'Nibenese' Imperial style that we got actually fits the Colovian houses too (or even more than the Nibenese ones) and doesn't fit in with the actually Nibenese style furniture (white stone, reliefs, often gilded or other decor, Roman style). So Nibenese is in far greater need for a furnishing style than Colovian, no matter what they initially wanted to call the one and only Imperial style we do have.

Ideally, of course, they will revamp both. But a Colovian or 2ndEmpire -matching aesthethic is actually far more suitable and represented in the Imperial furniture that we did get on Live (speaking about the main furniture, not the handful of wells and statues as discussed which do show that those are distinctly Nibenese).

The ones that never made it out of the PTS never made it into player hands Because they were reusing assets from the base game as you're looking at it from a housing perspective not what ZoS has done.
Anvil, Cropsford(need to double check as there's no good images of Cropsford interiors) and Vlastarus has the Nibenese assets and Kvatch, the Vile Manse and Southpoint has the Colovian assets you can look for yourself and see it and see the green Colovian furnishings in Kvatch, the Vile Manse and Southpoint and the orange Nibenese ones in Anvil, Cropsford(need to double check as there's no good images of Cropsford interiors) and Vlastarus.

This "2nd Empire style" is Colovian they use it interchangeably as seen with Southpoint, The Vile Manse. Elinhir (which we knew before ESO existed was using Colovian stuff) and Greenhill.

They won't revamp both as they won't even revamp the motifs so they'll make a Skingrad and Leyawiin recipe ones like how Solitudes getting recipes named after it.

bluebird · July 2020

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Nibenese furnishings is already ingame they just renamed it to Imperial for "clarity" and it still comes up on the search function when you search for "Nibenese" as shown in my screenshot.

As this screenshot is recent and as you can see searching for Nibenese brings that up and searching for Colovian brings nothing up. I'll go pull up some new screenshots and edit them in under a spoiler tag.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2
"Renamed Colovian and Nibenese furniture to Imperial, to improve clarity."

Erm... I already addressed it. You posted literally the same picture, and I posted a reply with pictures and an explanation, myself. Not sure if y'all don't read anything I say or what, but I guess I'll have to make an infographic, lol to make it clear what we're actually talking about, cause it seems like we're going in circles.

Forgive my shoddy editing skills, and do click the image to enlarge it if the embedded version is too small.
But here we go:
1) Breton furniture are clearly Breton, I think we have no arguments there (wood, red fabric).
2) The 'Colovian' furniture in the files are just recoloured Breton furniture (wood, green fabric).
3) The 'Nibenese' furniture are just recoloured Breton furniture (paler wood, orange fabric).
4) Any actual 'Nibenese' furniture (Roman-like) like the Statues, Wells and Pedestals (as I mentioned already, so you don't need to link me the same image over and over to convince me that those are indeed Nibenese) didn't take the place of Colovian furniture, because there were never any Colovian wells etc. available to players.

5) So apart from the Lamps, which did have Colovian variants to match Strident Springs and co., and Nibenese variants to match Linchal and co., which were later replaced to only have the Nibenese variants, neither the 'Colovian' nor 'Nibenese' furniture are distinctly Imperial. You're arguing about which Breton recolor was arbitrarily assigned a sequence of letters in the files.

6) Furthermore, the 'Imperial' furniture we have on Live do not mis-match the Colovian style. I know you will insists that 'but those are called Nibenese in the files' but that doesn't matter. It's a Breton recolor, so please just ignore those three little letters in a file name, and look at the actual images.

Look at that picture of Domus Phrasticus on Live (in the mish-mash pic I made above). Now compare that with Linchal on Live. Which Imperial architectural style, do you think matches the 'Imperial' furniture more? Colovian does. Do the 'Imperial' Nibenese-because-they-have-those-three-letters-in-their-name variants look 'not at home'' in Strident Springs? No, they fit in actually. Would a greener version have looked better in the Colovian houses? Sure. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture look out of place in the Colovian houses? No. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese ones? Yes.

Same with Strident Springs. So if we could only mentally detach ourself from which 3 random letters appear next to the files names of some arbitrary Breton recolours, we'd see that Imperial 'Nibenese file name' furniture aren't actually more or less Nibenese than Colovian; and upon closer examination, they actually match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese houses or the rest of the actually Nibense furniture (white, Roman-like).

Here's the thing it doesn't matter if it is a "recolour" it's Colovian or Nibenese because this is ZoS in base game they made the assets with all the other base game assets that came along with stuff like Pelagiad being name dropped in base game, Ayleid ruins removing Direnni and Aldmer ruins (renamed later and also nearly making the Adamantine/Direnni Tower Ayleid in the original version of the main quest).

Here's the thing you're arguing about PTS data that never made it to Live and therefore isn't even Canon, and about remnant code in search fragments even though the items are called 'Imperial' on Live and would be called 'Imperial' not 'Nibenese' by NPCs too since that's the style ingame world which is what matters not the game data, and about the file names of nonexistent furniture that ZOS removed before ever implementing on Live.

Meanwhile I'm here pointing out that the so-called 'Nibenese' Imperial style that we got actually fits the Colovian houses too (or even more than the Nibenese ones) and doesn't fit in with the actually Nibenese style furniture (white stone, reliefs, often gilded or other decor, Roman style). So Nibenese is in far greater need for a furnishing style than Colovian, no matter what they initially wanted to call the one and only Imperial style we do have.

Ideally, of course, they will revamp both. But a Colovian or 2ndEmpire -matching aesthethic is actually far more suitable and represented in the Imperial furniture that we did get on Live (speaking about the main furniture, not the handful of wells and statues as discussed which do show that those are distinctly Nibenese).

The ones that never made it out of the PTS never made it into player hands Because they were reusing assets from the base game as you're looking at it from a housing perspective not what ZoS has done.
Anvil, Cropsford(need to double check as there's no good images of Cropsford interiors) and Vlastarus has the Nibenese assets and Kvatch, the Vile Manse and Southpoint has the Colovian assets you can look for yourself and see it and see the green Colovian furnishings in Kvatch, the Vile Manse and Southpoint and the orange Nibenese ones in Anvil, Cropsford(need to double check as there's no good images of Cropsford interiors) and Vlastarus.

This "2nd Empire style" is Colovian they use it interchangeably as seen with Southpoint, The Vile Manse. Elinhir (which we knew before ESO existed was using Colovian stuff) and Greenhill.
They won't revamp both as they won't even revamp the motifs so they'll make a Skingrad and Leyawiin recipe ones like how Solitudes getting recipes named after it.

Well they should revamp both. Because neither the green nor the orange recolors are a good match for either of the two Imperial architecture styles which are distinct from each other and from Breton architecture. If anything though, both the PTS-removed and the Live-Imperial green and orange 'Imperial' furniture match the Colovian interiors more (not the Nibenese ones). So if they only revamp one Imperial style it should be Nibenese (so we finally get furniture that match the white marbles and decor of Nibenese statues and wells), while the dark stone Colovian houses are perfectly fine with the wood and orange fabric, as seen in my images in which the Live Imperial furniture blend in quite well with the Colovian interior but not with the Nibenese one.

So if getting this green-reskinned Breton copy-paste job will make you happy as ~the~ Colovian style, I hope they add them for you.

I'll be happy if they add a legit Imperial style for Nibenay then, that is suitably distinct from Breton and actually matches the Nibenese houses and statuary, wells, etc - which the current Imperial furniture do not, despite their file name.

colossalvoids · July 2020

A bit worrying that no new systems (or at least an arena) are mined, probably they might continue to sell newer dlcs and chapters without one and it's pretty disappointing.

MaisonNaevius · July 2020

So we have to hope for a really "typical" Nibenese style. And Mir Corrup is the reliable option, the wild card you can say. We don't know what the city looks like.
It is a spa town and of the imperial nobility in the Nibenay.

Beside, I think that Bravil and Leyawiin will have the same treatment as in TES IV like Solitude. And the Bravil furniture could be like the city ... Pieces of wood and makeshift furniture.

Skingrad will not come alone. Also in Colovia there will be two jokers: Sutch (with certainty) and Sarchal (with less certainty). And Skingrad will bring its share of "Colovian" or "Skingrad" furniture.

I hope we will one day have Colovian vanilla furniture. It would make sense to use them in the houses around Colovia.
In fact, they should have kept Colovian furniture. The Nibenese furniture should have come out exclusively with Linchal.

KingArthasMenethil · July 2020

Maki2859 wrote: »

So we have to hope for a really "typical" Nibenese style. And Mir Corrup is the reliable option, the wild card you can say. We don't know what the city looks like.
It is a spa town and of the imperial nobility in the Nibenay.

Beside, I think that Bravil and Leyawiin will have the same treatment as in TES IV like Solitude. And the Bravil furniture could be like the city ... Pieces of wood and makeshift furniture.

Skingrad will not come alone. Also in Colovia there will be two jokers: Sutch (with certainty) and Sarchal (with less certainty). And Skingrad will bring its share of "Colovian" or "Skingrad" furniture.

I hope we will one day have Colovian vanilla furniture. It would make sense to use them in the houses around Colovia.
In fact, they should have kept Colovian furniture. The Nibenese furniture should have come out exclusively with Linchal.

In terms of Colovia City/major settlement wise there's Skingrad and Sutch (Sutch has been confirmed since base game and was mentioned in a gold coast book along with having a dot on the Cyrodiil maps ingame asset). Sarchal is from a book so it could be a delve/public dungeon given how it never comes up again like Delodiil (which has its own changes).

Nibenay really needs settlements give just how empty it is due to TES4.

KingArthasMenethil · July 2020

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Nibenese furnishings is already ingame they just renamed it to Imperial for "clarity" and it still comes up on the search function when you search for "Nibenese" as shown in my screenshot.

As this screenshot is recent and as you can see searching for Nibenese brings that up and searching for Colovian brings nothing up. I'll go pull up some new screenshots and edit them in under a spoiler tag.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2
"Renamed Colovian and Nibenese furniture to Imperial, to improve clarity."

Erm... I already addressed it. You posted literally the same picture, and I posted a reply with pictures and an explanation, myself. Not sure if y'all don't read anything I say or what, but I guess I'll have to make an infographic, lol to make it clear what we're actually talking about, cause it seems like we're going in circles.

Forgive my shoddy editing skills, and do click the image to enlarge it if the embedded version is too small.
But here we go:
1) Breton furniture are clearly Breton, I think we have no arguments there (wood, red fabric).
2) The 'Colovian' furniture in the files are just recoloured Breton furniture (wood, green fabric).
3) The 'Nibenese' furniture are just recoloured Breton furniture (paler wood, orange fabric).
4) Any actual 'Nibenese' furniture (Roman-like) like the Statues, Wells and Pedestals (as I mentioned already, so you don't need to link me the same image over and over to convince me that those are indeed Nibenese) didn't take the place of Colovian furniture, because there were never any Colovian wells etc. available to players.

5) So apart from the Lamps, which did have Colovian variants to match Strident Springs and co., and Nibenese variants to match Linchal and co., which were later replaced to only have the Nibenese variants, neither the 'Colovian' nor 'Nibenese' furniture are distinctly Imperial. You're arguing about which Breton recolor was arbitrarily assigned a sequence of letters in the files.

6) Furthermore, the 'Imperial' furniture we have on Live do not mis-match the Colovian style. I know you will insists that 'but those are called Nibenese in the files' but that doesn't matter. It's a Breton recolor, so please just ignore those three little letters in a file name, and look at the actual images.

Look at that picture of Domus Phrasticus on Live (in the mish-mash pic I made above). Now compare that with Linchal on Live. Which Imperial architectural style, do you think matches the 'Imperial' furniture more? Colovian does. Do the 'Imperial' Nibenese-because-they-have-those-three-letters-in-their-name variants look 'not at home'' in Strident Springs? No, they fit in actually. Would a greener version have looked better in the Colovian houses? Sure. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture look out of place in the Colovian houses? No. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese ones? Yes.

Same with Strident Springs. So if we could only mentally detach ourself from which 3 random letters appear next to the files names of some arbitrary Breton recolours, we'd see that Imperial 'Nibenese file name' furniture aren't actually more or less Nibenese than Colovian; and upon closer examination, they actually match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese houses or the rest of the actually Nibense furniture (white, Roman-like).

Here's the thing it doesn't matter if it is a "recolour" it's Colovian or Nibenese because this is ZoS in base game they made the assets with all the other base game assets that came along with stuff like Pelagiad being name dropped in base game, Ayleid ruins removing Direnni and Aldmer ruins (renamed later and also nearly making the Adamantine/Direnni Tower Ayleid in the original version of the main quest).

Here's the thing you're arguing about PTS data that never made it to Live and therefore isn't even Canon, and about remnant code in search fragments even though the items are called 'Imperial' on Live and would be called 'Imperial' not 'Nibenese' by NPCs too since that's the style ingame world which is what matters not the game data, and about the file names of nonexistent furniture that ZOS removed before ever implementing on Live.

Meanwhile I'm here pointing out that the so-called 'Nibenese' Imperial style that we got actually fits the Colovian houses too (or even more than the Nibenese ones) and doesn't fit in with the actually Nibenese style furniture (white stone, reliefs, often gilded or other decor, Roman style). So Nibenese is in far greater need for a furnishing style than Colovian, no matter what they initially wanted to call the one and only Imperial style we do have.

Ideally, of course, they will revamp both. But a Colovian or 2ndEmpire -matching aesthethic is actually far more suitable and represented in the Imperial furniture that we did get on Live (speaking about the main furniture, not the handful of wells and statues as discussed which do show that those are distinctly Nibenese).

The ones that never made it out of the PTS never made it into player hands Because they were reusing assets from the base game as you're looking at it from a housing perspective not what ZoS has done.
Anvil, Cropsford(need to double check as there's no good images of Cropsford interiors) and Vlastarus has the Nibenese assets and Kvatch, the Vile Manse and Southpoint has the Colovian assets you can look for yourself and see it and see the green Colovian furnishings in Kvatch, the Vile Manse and Southpoint and the orange Nibenese ones in Anvil, Cropsford(need to double check as there's no good images of Cropsford interiors) and Vlastarus.

This "2nd Empire style" is Colovian they use it interchangeably as seen with Southpoint, The Vile Manse. Elinhir (which we knew before ESO existed was using Colovian stuff) and Greenhill.
They won't revamp both as they won't even revamp the motifs so they'll make a Skingrad and Leyawiin recipe ones like how Solitudes getting recipes named after it.

Well they should revamp both. Because neither the green nor the orange recolors are a good match for either of the two Imperial architecture styles which are distinct from each other and from Breton architecture. If anything though, both the PTS-removed and the Live-Imperial green and orange 'Imperial' furniture match the Colovian interiors more (not the Nibenese ones). So if they only revamp one Imperial style it should be Nibenese (so we finally get furniture that match the white marbles and decor of Nibenese statues and wells), while the dark stone Colovian houses are perfectly fine with the wood and orange fabric, as seen in my images in which the Live Imperial furniture blend in quite well with the Colovian interior but not with the Nibenese one.

So if getting this green-reskinned Breton copy-paste job will make you happy as ~the~ Colovian style, I hope they add them for you. I'll be happy if they add a legit Imperial style for Nibenay then, that is suitably distinct from Breton and actually matches the Nibenese houses and statuary, wells, etc - which the current Imperial furniture do not, despite their file name.

The issue is more ZoS they're not redoing the old Motifs and are instead doing "Ancestral" Race motifs which are better quality versions of the normal race motifs.
So that'll drag over to furnishings and they'll make new ones for the Cyrodiil chapter unless they reuse assets which I doubt.
Like look at the Great House NPCs and areas in Stonefalls and Deshaan the Hlaalu, Redoran and Telvanni areas weren't updated they just made new assets.
So it'll probably be a Leyawiin or Skingrad furnishing crafting recipes like how Solitude has one named for Solitude instead of like Western Skyrim and the Great Houses having their own furnishings.

bluebird · July 2020

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

Nibenese furnishings is already ingame they just renamed it to Imperial for "clarity" and it still comes up on the search function when you search for "Nibenese" as shown in my screenshot.

As this screenshot is recent and as you can see searching for Nibenese brings that up and searching for Colovian brings nothing up. I'll go pull up some new screenshots and edit them in under a spoiler tag.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2
"Renamed Colovian and Nibenese furniture to Imperial, to improve clarity."

Erm... I already addressed it. You posted literally the same picture, and I posted a reply with pictures and an explanation, myself. Not sure if y'all don't read anything I say or what, but I guess I'll have to make an infographic, lol to make it clear what we're actually talking about, cause it seems like we're going in circles.

Forgive my shoddy editing skills, and do click the image to enlarge it if the embedded version is too small.
But here we go:
1) Breton furniture are clearly Breton, I think we have no arguments there (wood, red fabric).
2) The 'Colovian' furniture in the files are just recoloured Breton furniture (wood, green fabric).
3) The 'Nibenese' furniture are just recoloured Breton furniture (paler wood, orange fabric).
4) Any actual 'Nibenese' furniture (Roman-like) like the Statues, Wells and Pedestals (as I mentioned already, so you don't need to link me the same image over and over to convince me that those are indeed Nibenese) didn't take the place of Colovian furniture, because there were never any Colovian wells etc. available to players.

5) So apart from the Lamps, which did have Colovian variants to match Strident Springs and co., and Nibenese variants to match Linchal and co., which were later replaced to only have the Nibenese variants, neither the 'Colovian' nor 'Nibenese' furniture are distinctly Imperial. You're arguing about which Breton recolor was arbitrarily assigned a sequence of letters in the files.

6) Furthermore, the 'Imperial' furniture we have on Live do not mis-match the Colovian style. I know you will insists that 'but those are called Nibenese in the files' but that doesn't matter. It's a Breton recolor, so please just ignore those three little letters in a file name, and look at the actual images.

Look at that picture of Domus Phrasticus on Live (in the mish-mash pic I made above). Now compare that with Linchal on Live. Which Imperial architectural style, do you think matches the 'Imperial' furniture more? Colovian does. Do the 'Imperial' Nibenese-because-they-have-those-three-letters-in-their-name variants look 'not at home'' in Strident Springs? No, they fit in actually. Would a greener version have looked better in the Colovian houses? Sure. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture look out of place in the Colovian houses? No. Do the current 'ex-Nibenese-now-just-Imperial' furniture match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese ones? Yes.

Same with Strident Springs. So if we could only mentally detach ourself from which 3 random letters appear next to the files names of some arbitrary Breton recolours, we'd see that Imperial 'Nibenese file name' furniture aren't actually more or less Nibenese than Colovian; and upon closer examination, they actually match Colovian houses more than they match Nibenese houses or the rest of the actually Nibense furniture (white, Roman-like).

Here's the thing it doesn't matter if it is a "recolour" it's Colovian or Nibenese because this is ZoS in base game they made the assets with all the other base game assets that came along with stuff like Pelagiad being name dropped in base game, Ayleid ruins removing Direnni and Aldmer ruins (renamed later and also nearly making the Adamantine/Direnni Tower Ayleid in the original version of the main quest).

Here's the thing you're arguing about PTS data that never made it to Live and therefore isn't even Canon, and about remnant code in search fragments even though the items are called 'Imperial' on Live and would be called 'Imperial' not 'Nibenese' by NPCs too since that's the style ingame world which is what matters not the game data, and about the file names of nonexistent furniture that ZOS removed before ever implementing on Live.

Meanwhile I'm here pointing out that the so-called 'Nibenese' Imperial style that we got actually fits the Colovian houses too (or even more than the Nibenese ones) and doesn't fit in with the actually Nibenese style furniture (white stone, reliefs, often gilded or other decor, Roman style). So Nibenese is in far greater need for a furnishing style than Colovian, no matter what they initially wanted to call the one and only Imperial style we do have.

Ideally, of course, they will revamp both. But a Colovian or 2ndEmpire -matching aesthethic is actually far more suitable and represented in the Imperial furniture that we did get on Live (speaking about the main furniture, not the handful of wells and statues as discussed which do show that those are distinctly Nibenese).

The ones that never made it out of the PTS never made it into player hands Because they were reusing assets from the base game as you're looking at it from a housing perspective not what ZoS has done.
Anvil, Cropsford(need to double check as there's no good images of Cropsford interiors) and Vlastarus has the Nibenese assets and Kvatch, the Vile Manse and Southpoint has the Colovian assets you can look for yourself and see it and see the green Colovian furnishings in Kvatch, the Vile Manse and Southpoint and the orange Nibenese ones in Anvil, Cropsford(need to double check as there's no good images of Cropsford interiors) and Vlastarus.

This "2nd Empire style" is Colovian they use it interchangeably as seen with Southpoint, The Vile Manse. Elinhir (which we knew before ESO existed was using Colovian stuff) and Greenhill.
They won't revamp both as they won't even revamp the motifs so they'll make a Skingrad and Leyawiin recipe ones like how Solitudes getting recipes named after it.

Well they should revamp both. Because neither the green nor the orange recolors are a good match for either of the two Imperial architecture styles which are distinct from each other and from Breton architecture. If anything though, both the PTS-removed and the Live-Imperial green and orange 'Imperial' furniture match the Colovian interiors more (not the Nibenese ones). So if they only revamp one Imperial style it should be Nibenese (so we finally get furniture that match the white marbles and decor of Nibenese statues and wells), while the dark stone Colovian houses are perfectly fine with the wood and orange fabric, as seen in my images in which the Live Imperial furniture blend in quite well with the Colovian interior but not with the Nibenese one.

So if getting this green-reskinned Breton copy-paste job will make you happy as ~the~ Colovian style, I hope they add them for you. I'll be happy if they add a legit Imperial style for Nibenay then, that is suitably distinct from Breton and actually matches the Nibenese houses and statuary, wells, etc - which the current Imperial furniture do not, despite their file name.

The issue is more ZoS they're not redoing the old Motifs and are instead doing "Ancestral" Race motifs which are better quality versions of the normal race motifs.
So that'll drag over to furnishings and they'll make new ones for the Cyrodiil chapter unless they reuse assets which I doubt.
Like look at the Great House NPCs and areas in Stonefalls and Deshaan the Hlaalu, Redoran and Telvanni areas weren't updated they just made new assets.

That's what I meant by revamping; that they leave 'Imperial' as 'Imperial' and instead revamp Colovian and Nibenese by giving them a new style with an actual distinct identity and name, rather than re-labeling Breton recolors.

Nibenese ought to be more ostentatious, pale stone, marble pattern tiles, reliefs, metal or terracotta or other ornamentation, scalloping, coffered wood structures, etc. So that it actually matches with the Nibenese statues, wells, and villas, in a way that Imperial currently (regardless of its file names) does not.

And same with Colovian, I thought they could make a more distinct Colovian look - more severe and somber colours and materials than Nibenese, more solid and distinctly Imperial in decor (perhaps an aesthetic reference to the sloped tiled roofs of the architecture). So that's why I was surprised you'd insist on 'Colovian' being the cancelled green-Breton-recolor... when the current 'Imperial' fits Colovian houses just as well. I thought we'd all be better off if 'Imperial' was left to posterity as the basic and uninspired remnant where ZOS cut corners during production, and we can get both a Colovian and a Nibenese purpose-build cohesive furniture style like we got with all Chapters.

I'd like to see ZOS do the Empire justice, rather than relegating them to copy-paste jobs and secondary background stories like they did with all their zones and content so far. Even IC is about Daedra and Molag Bal, and even the Gold Coast is about the Stabby Murder People Club not the Empire itself. So I sure hope we see a proper culture, architecture, and suitable purpose-build furniture to go along with it.