Reporting - Distinguishing between a bot and a real player

Fina · April 2014

A lot of people have said they've been banned / suspended recently. It could be they were falsely reported by another player. Maybe they couldn't distinguish a bot from a real player.

Some bots are easy to spot. They still wear Soul Shriven clothes, their names are "jejsetie", and they don't get above level 5.

But how about those ones that are fully decked out in armor and Veteran Rank 1?

How can we know if it's a real player or a bot?

Well there is one almost surefire sign...and it might come as a surprise.
They have NO mundus stone effect. (There is an addon which displays buffs on other characters)

EDIT: Actually they usually have no buffs at all.

I understand lower level players may not have found a mundus stone yet, but by the time you are 20+, any normal player would have one. However, bots never do. I've watched and reported a lot of them, but I've never seen one with a Mundus Stone effect.

They are in the dungeons and in the world...these farmers / power levelers. Today I saw a group of 3 VR1 bots in cold harbor just running around killing things as a group with auto-follow. They did NOT harvest anything. Just kill. None had a Mundus Stone effect.

So if you see 10 people farming a boss, and 5 of them have no Mundus Stone effect, chances are those are your bots.

EDIT: Let's all help Customer Service by accurately reporting more bots.

Happy reporting.

Guizan · April 2014

I agree that it is very hard at times to find out if that player at the dungeon boss spawn is a real player of a bot farmer. I for one usually stay an kill 3-5 bosses once I reach them as I have noticed that I sometimes get no loot on the first kill only the achievement. Also I have noticed that I don't get the "good" loot from the drop table until after a couple of kills.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · April 2014

I doubt there were that many innocents.

WilliamTee · April 2014

I know you're trying to help so thank you...

But I worry about spreading such an as-yet-untested and unproven theory. Many bots are botted 'part-time' and would risk being ignored by such a rote system.

Rantog · April 2014

Guizan wrote: »

I agree that it is very hard at times to find out if that player at the dungeon boss spawn is a real player of a bot farmer.

It's not hard at all.

#1 - they can attack Before the boss spawns.
#2 - they attack in Perfect unison.
#3 - they always use exactly the same attack sequence, and never have a moment's delay, no matter how long you watch them.

Humans blink or cough or .. just space out for a moment - and occasionally respond after a second or two instead of Immediately (let alone Before the spawn)
Bots don't.

Jessabella · April 2014

Honestly I think many players are beyond frustrated by bots and farmers that they just don't care if they report a player or a bot. So many posts here have been made by people claiming they report anyone they see near a boss.

I hate to say it, but it has me afraid to enter dungeons most of the time. I'm not a farmer or a boss camper, it's just not my style, but I am often AFK right now due to morning sickness. I can't exactly control when the urge to lose the contents of my stomach comes, and I sometimes find myself dead mid battle on return.

I can just imagine should it happen mid boss fight! I would hate to get reported as a bot for just standing around and doing nothing. So for now I mostly avoid dungeons until the bots die down (hopefully). When I do wander in, the bots are there.

zgrssd · April 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

I doubt there were that many innocents.

Guilty till prooven innocent is not a good approach to justice. Or really anything.

Fina wrote: »

Well there is one almost surefire sign...and it might come as a surprise.
They have NO mundus stone effect. (There is an addon which displays buffs on other characters)

EDIT: Actually they usually have no buffs at all.

Wich addon are you talking about?
While Foundry Tactical Combat displays some buffs and debuffs on you and foes, those are mustly guess values based on your fired actions.
According to my information (ESO 1.0.4 and FTC 0.26) the game does not fully report buffs/debuffs on the player and other characters so there is nowhere a addon could get this information reliably.

Edit & PS:
Might this be better palced under Player Guides?

Harleyquincey · April 2014

Rantog wrote: »

Guizan wrote: »

I agree that it is very hard at times to find out if that player at the dungeon boss spawn is a real player of a bot farmer.

It's not hard at all.

#1 - they can attack Before the boss spawns.
#2 - they attack in Perfect unison.
#3 - they always use exactly the same attack sequence, and never have a moment's delay, no matter how long you watch them.

Humans blink or cough or .. just space out for a moment - and occasionally respond after a second or two instead of Immediately (let alone Before the spawn)
Bots don't.

This.
Just yesterday I reported around seven bots in a public dungeon, farming a boss over and over and over again. They were constantly in combat mode, always following the exact same routines, always acting in perfect unison, ending the fight exactly at the time the boss went down (most players happen to do a few wild swings). Was rather easy to identify them, to be fair.

I just copy+paste my messages on the CS tickets and be done with it.

jvaucher4ub17_ESO · April 2014

ZOE has many ways to investigate bots. Just report them and let them do their jobs. They'll figure out the best methods to make their investigations as accurate as possible.

robert · April 2014

Report them all, let ZOS sort it out.

pignouf · April 2014

in order to check if they're bot or not, i'm using Fiery Grip (DK) to pull the boss to me. I try to this across stairs/wall: each time i see the bots in perfect sync going to the boss. Funny part is when they return to spawn point: if there's an obstacle, they're stuck and auto-jump endlessly.

HandofBane · April 2014

robert wrote: »

Report them all, let ZOS sort it out.

And the "N'wah of the Day" award goes to...

But seriously, don't do this. You only end up wasting the time of both legitimate players and customer service. Wasting the time of customer service means that *every* ticket gets pushed back, and response times on more important issues become even longer than they already are.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/655920/#Comment_655920

"While manually farming bosses in public spaces where others are clearly also trying to get a chance at them may not be the most polite thing to do, it is not a violation of our Terms of Service nor is it something you should report people for. Now, if you're using a bot program to farm, yes that behavior should be reported, and yes we will ban those individuals to Oblivion. If you're found to be deliberately abusing our report system, we may take action on you, so please don't. Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act."

Dracovar · April 2014

Jessabella wrote: »

Honestly I think many players are beyond frustrated by bots and farmers that they just don't care if they report a player or a bot. So many posts here have been made by people claiming they report anyone they see near a boss.

Yeah, and when Zenimax catches up with everything, they will be dealt with for false reporting and abusing the system. You're not supposed to report someone unless you are sure they're a bot:

"Folks, we've said this other places on the forums but there seems to be some misinformation floating around so we'll say it again. While manually farming bosses in public spaces where others are clearly also trying to get a chance at them may not be the most polite thing to do, it is not a violation of our Terms of Service nor is it something you should report people for. Now, if you're using a bot program to farm, yes that behavior should be reported, and yes we will ban those individuals to Oblivion. If you're found to be deliberately abusing our report system, we may take action on you, so please don't. Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act."

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/655920/#Comment_655920

Lox · April 2014

Bots are, generally, incredibly easy to identify for all the reasons stated above. However, I would also like to think that ZOS are not banning people based purely on player reports, they should be doing a bit of investigation themselves and only using the reports to point them in the right direction.

The recent bans of apparently innocent players were, from my understanding, mainly due to a problem within the system / process, not necessarily a problem with people reporting non-botting players.

HandofBane · April 2014

Lox wrote: »

The recent bans of apparently innocent players were, from my understanding, mainly due to a problem within the system / process, not necessarily a problem with people reporting non-botting players.

We may never know the actual reason for that. In the first announcement about the ban wave, they stated there was no automated process involved. Then they had to make that big apology because they screwed up somewhere, and several hundred people got caught in it who were not guilty of abusing the exploit. Given that, it is not unreasonable for people to worry about getting caught up as collateral damage should a more automated ban process be applied to bot reporting without actual human intervention in between the report and the actual ban.

Hopefully, they take the lesson to heart after the last screwup, and hire on more staff, training them as well as possible, and are able to deal with such things more effectively and accurately in the future.

Fina · April 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

Wich addon are you talking about?

ZAM Buff Display. From the ESOUI website. It shows some, but not all buffs. I know it shoes food buffs, Vampirism (+Stage and whether the player is on a bite cool down), Werewolf buff (I forget the correct name), Mundus stone buffs, Magic Aura, Molten Weapons, etc.

That being said, I've never seen a bot with a Mundus Stone buff. So if I see another player / players in a dungeon or the world (like level 20+ areas) without any buffs at all, I get suspicious. I watch them for a while. If they start to display bot-like behavior and don't respond to messages, then I usually report them.

lyndsayporterb16_ESO · April 2014

Dracovar wrote: »

Jessabella wrote: »

Honestly I think many players are beyond frustrated by bots and farmers that they just don't care if they report a player or a bot. So many posts here have been made by people claiming they report anyone they see near a boss.

Yeah, and when Zenimax catches up with everything, they will be dealt with for false reporting and abusing the system. You're not supposed to report someone unless you are sure they're a bot:

"Folks, we've said this other places on the forums but there seems to be some misinformation floating around so we'll say it again. While manually farming bosses in public spaces where others are clearly also trying to get a chance at them may not be the most polite thing to do, it is not a violation of our Terms of Service nor is it something you should report people for. Now, if you're using a bot program to farm, yes that behavior should be reported, and yes we will ban those individuals to Oblivion. If you're found to be deliberately abusing our report system, we may take action on you, so please don't. Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act."

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/655920/#Comment_655920

QFT because people don't like to read these days. Most of the books in ESO is a sure sign of that.

LadyChaos · April 2014

pignouf wrote: »

in order to check if they're bot or not, i'm using Fiery Grip (DK) to pull the boss to me. I try to this across stairs/wall: each time i see the bots in perfect sync going to the boss. Funny part is when they return to spawn point: if there's an obstacle, they're stuck and auto-jump endlessly.

I've seen people not get hit in on their update when DKs chain boss out of area. Lot of times players only have time get 1 hit in and they cast an AoE etc... just to keep in mind hindering the bots seems like intent, not the real players just getting updates.

neidzwiedzub17_ESO · April 2014

I've always felt its better a 100 guilty get through the 1 innocent get punished. The real problem here is not the botters as much as it is the people who are using RMT to acquire the proceeds of said bots i. e. gold buyers and sellers.

Altissimus · April 2014

TL;DR: Get a mundus stone effect or you'll be banned.

Lol.

Koltiros1005b14a_ESO · April 2014

Check for a pulse, always a good first option, if unresponsive bot like behavior continues, begin CPR.

Nooblet · April 2014

Fina wrote: »

A lot of people have said they've been banned / suspended recently. It could be they were falsely reported by another player. Maybe they couldn't distinguish a bot from a real player.

Some bots are easy to spot. They still wear Soul Shriven clothes, their names are "jejsetie", and they don't get above level 5.

But how about those ones that are fully decked out in armor and Veteran Rank 1?

How can we know if it's a real player or a bot?

Well there is one almost surefire sign...and it might come as a surprise.
They have NO mundus stone effect. (There is an addon which displays buffs on other characters)

EDIT: Actually they usually have no buffs at all.

I understand lower level players may not have found a mundus stone yet, but by the time you are 20+, any normal player would have one. However, bots never do. I've watched and reported a lot of them, but I've never seen one with a Mundus Stone effect.

They are in the dungeons and in the world...these farmers / power levelers. Today I saw a group of 3 VR1 bots in cold harbor just running around killing things as a group with auto-follow. They did NOT harvest anything. Just kill. None had a Mundus Stone effect.

So if you see 10 people farming a boss, and 5 of them have no Mundus Stone effect, chances are those are your bots.

EDIT: Let's all help Customer Service by accurately reporting more bots.

Happy reporting.

I just recently hit VR10... I have no idea what a mundus stone is. Guess I'll look it up now, but I'm thinking that's probably not the best method to determine bots.

Shillen · April 2014

Rantog wrote: »

Guizan wrote: »

I agree that it is very hard at times to find out if that player at the dungeon boss spawn is a real player of a bot farmer.

It's not hard at all.

#1 - they can attack Before the boss spawns.
#2 - they attack in Perfect unison.
#3 - they always use exactly the same attack sequence, and never have a moment's delay, no matter how long you watch them.

Humans blink or cough or .. just space out for a moment - and occasionally respond after a second or two instead of Immediately (let alone Before the spawn)
Bots don't.

Yeah but how long do you watch them for? I've farmed delve bosses before and done everything exactly the same for 15+ minutes. I doubt these people reporting botters are patiently waiting that long. They fail to get the boss 3-4 times and then they go on a reporting spree.

Of course I've also seen players farming something and doing it different every kill and people calling them bots. Some people have no clue what a bot is and/or think they are far more sophisticated than they actually are.

Mysttware · April 2014

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with if by level 20 they don't have a mundus stone they must be a bot. I have one character lvl 15 and been doing all the side quests in Gunundrum and I farm a lot, but that does not make me a bot. I would look for how the player moves as well not just what they do, but does it seem like it's programmed to move or is movement sporadic. Are they teleporting in and out to different loot? And wearing beginner gear is a good spot.

Celuwen · April 2014

I only report the very obvious bots. Always a group (or two) in starter gear with names like ajshshsa and suchlike, I also hang around for a while to check. I'm sure the bot farmers are getting wise to this though. Even so, I'd hate for a non-bot to be banned.

speker3 · April 2014

@Fina
Ah very nice to see someone post about this clear issue and you have a great solution might i add aswell! Here is an older post for reference of players who speculate to have fallen victim to players who can't tell the difference, and even players who openly state that they will report anyone farming bosses regardless of being a bot or not even after being told by an ADMIN that they can be suspended for filing such false reports.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/81112/stay-away-from-bosses-report-system-trolled/p1
Many players are suspended by players who can't tell the difference or frankly don't care and one of my friends has been waiting on a response from customer support for 10 days now.

phairdon · April 2014

Yeah; ran into a sizable group of them tonight on the stonefalls map; running in a circle. The names were a give away (the only difference between four of them was the first letter of their name) on top of their behaviour.
As stated above all had starter gear. Watched this group for around 20 mins while completing quests in the vicinity.
This is my first known encounter with potential bots.

Oogaci · April 2014

It is incredibly easy to identify bots and distinguish them from players if you know what to look for.

TieFighter · April 2014

if you have seen bots in action then you know its impossible to mimic a bot with real genuine actions.

Shanna · April 2014

I watched a bunch of them spawning up in the Coldharbour (level 40+ region) town gate. It was pretty bizarre to watch. They appeared one-by-one, in starter gear and with the typical "abjdifiaw" names, until there was a pile of 10+ level 3's in one spot. They would start out thrusting their weapon repeatedly upon spawn, and then eventually calm down. After a bit, they divided themselves into two groups, but kept spawning.

charlesbr · April 2014

i just found 2 guys in vet 1 cave, me and other guy reported them, they just like kill the boss even if we knock it back they follow , loot, stay stopped in the place some time, and then back at the starting place they where,( also the DK bot was standing in boss side and dont even goin for loot, this one only was pulling the boss with its skill when he got a little far) and do it all over again, the same skills set, and dont respond to chat, its like they are adding timers to seems more like real players, but fortunately we was in 2 and we both reported them, hope zos do something aabout it