Bloodthirsty Change...

Blevil · July 2020

Can someone explain how the new blood thirsty trait works. Does it mean you get 250 spell/wep damage starting at <90% enemy health or does it start from 0 spell/wep damage and gradually go up to the max of 250 the less health the enemy has.

Elwendryll · July 2020

It's gradually increasing the lower your enemy health gets. Up to 350

MashmalloMan · July 2020

It's pretty clear from the notes isn't it? Says "linearly per 1% missing health".

Bloodthirsty: This trait now grants up to 250 Weapon and Spell Damage against targets under 90% Health, scaling linearly per 1% missing Health, rather than granting a flat 10% damage increase against targets under 25% Health.

Bloodthirsty: Increased the bonus Weapon and Spell Damage this trait grants against targets to a maximum of 350 per trait, up from 250 per trait. This was to make up for the fact the trait does not inherit percent increases to these stats, such as Brutality or Sorcery.

So 350/90 = 3.88

You get about 4 weapon/spell damage every 1% of missing health beyond 90% up to 350.

technohic · July 2020

I need to look at this closer. So many changes. Seems it outpaces an infused harm glyph pretty quickly? I mean sorc passive where your damage is buffed at the beginning anyway; this might be a no brainers

Blevil · July 2020

well i figured 260 spell damage from infused will only be out performed by bloodthirsty at about 23% health or less.

260/3.88 = 67 and 90-67=23

Olupajmibanan · July 2020

Blevil wrote: »

well i figured 260 spell damage from infused will only be out performed by bloodthirsty at about 23% health or less.

260/3.88 = 67 and 90-67=23

Gold Infused gives you 104 spell/weapon damage. With Major and Minor Sorcery up, that's 135 spell damage. Am I missing something?

witchdoctor · July 2020

@Blevil

Maths: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Sy4elgxokQUAnKUQaVOq9h6xBlsWSGgV5Hb9NfwHV18/edit#gid=0

Dagoth_Rac · July 2020

Blevil wrote: »

well i figured 260 spell damage from infused will only be out performed by bloodthirsty at about 23% health or less.

260/3.88 = 67 and 90-67=23

You still get the same base 174 spell/weapon damage jewelry glyph on Bloodthirsty compared to Infused. So Infused really gives you about 106 extra spell damage constantly, while Bloodthirsty gives you zero to start but scales up to 350 extra spell/weapon damage.

Infused gains from minor/major Brutality and Sorcery and other buffs to spell/weapon damage, though. Bloodthirsty does not because it applies to enemies, not to you. So that extra 106 is really more, but it varies by character and build. Math gets complicated, but it is not 260 more.

Blevil · July 2020

so the math is saying at 62% health bloodthirsty becomes better?

Jodynn · July 2020

Blevil wrote: »

well i figured 260 spell damage from infused will only be out performed by bloodthirsty at about 23% health or less.

260/3.88 = 67 and 90-67=23

Not the correct math pieces, nor is that how much you get from infused.

Infused on a gold piece gives you 104 spell damage
3 Pieces will be 312
Then add in your major and minor ( if you have a templar ) buffs, and then your class buffs ( like sorc ).

Now.. Bloodthirsty linear from 90% to 1%, 350 spell damage/weapon damage ( read 6.1.1 they upgraded it but not affect by major buffs )

Infused and Bloodthirsty will be close to the same around 60% health when you now have 350 spell and weapon damage from bloodthirsty, everything after that bloodthirsty will be better.

The one major point about this is infused affects your healing as well while bloodthirsty does not ( unless you are using a drain skill ), just like arcane is weaker than infused but affects shields while infused does not.

For PvE, Bloodthirsty is clearly the meta for anyone doing vet content ( prolonged fights ), if you just burst normal dungeons, dolmens, low health stuff, etc. infused is probably better, if you are in PvP it depends on your build as always and there isn't really a clear meta.

Elwendryll · July 2020

Well, thanks @witchdoctor for the link.

There is one thing that makes me stop at 2 BT 1 infused. That's the amplitude passive. I'm not sure how to take that into account, but I have a feeling I should at least keep an infused enchant to take advantage of it and help get faster in the range where BT starts scaling.

technohic · July 2020

Nice thing about bloodthirsty is, if I need a recovery glyph for just a little bit more but not quite needing infused recovery; it still gives me the damage benefit.

Might actually make things interesting on my builds where I am addicted to speed to where it could give me a reason to run the wild hunt ring over 2-3 swift pieces.

I actually am liking the choices possible here. Maybe a bit lopsided but there are definitely choices. Now; if they'd just stop nerfing raw stat sets while buffing procs.

furiouslog · July 2020

I've done a little work on this, and basically here are the big differences:

Old BT: Under 25" health, adds a damage modifier to the base damage you are doing to the target of 10% (per item).

New BT: Adds a spell damage buff on top of spell damage that scales up from 0 to 350 over 90% to 1% health (per item). This does not get added to the base and is not buffed by other modifiers.

I did two similar parses on my magplar, one on Live and one on PTS using the same gear/rotation. Here are the results (Live is on the left). Note: I am missing the final ulti on the PTS parse which I might go back and fix later on another parse, you can mentally adjust it to get a sense of the difference:

https://ibb.co/p1zdhCw

Basically, you can see a gentle trend upwards on the PTS - the damage is also a little more bumpy over time due to crits and damage scaling (and also due to optical illusion from the axis scaling). It ends up doing a little better over the life of the fight, including a slight improvement in execute. We're probably talking about a difference of 1-3K dps here depending on your individual performance, but I'm certainly no Liko, and some of the difference could also be influenced by other changes to magplar and the divines trait (I used force pulse as spammable to remove issues with jabs and burning light, but burning light proccing differently on spears could be an issue).

Anyway, it seems like the changes they just made for 6.1.1 bring it pretty closely in line with prior performance given a benchmark gear/rotation set, and there is probably still opportunity to better optimize around this new design.