Urgent! Nerf at Roll Dogde! Balancing between Stamina and Magicka characters in PVP
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Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Yes lets nerf the only good defensive option stamina Nightblades have...
Such a stupid argument. Some classes like NBs rely on dodge rolls a lot because they cant just block and outheal like other classes, this whole argument shouldnt exist and is not thought through.
Most of the classes have undodgable skills or DoTs which helps with pressuring people once they start roll dodging.
Magicka:
Templars - Jabs
Necro - Blastbones
DK - DoTs
Warden - Shalks
Sorc - Curse
The only class which really struggles against roll dodging is ironically the NB itself. Even then the toolkit should be changed accordingly and dodge shouldnt be nerfed...xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Yes lets nerf the only good defensive option stamina Nightblades have...
Such a stupid argument. Some classes like NBs rely on dodge rolls a lot because they cant just block and outheal like other classes, this whole argument shouldnt exist and is not thought through.
Most of the classes have undodgable skills or DoTs which helps with pressuring people once they start roll dodging.
Magicka:
Templars - Jabs
Necro - Blastbones
DK - DoTs
Warden - Shalks
Sorc - Curse
The only class which really struggles against roll dodging is ironically the NB itself. Even then the toolkit should be changed accordingly and dodge shouldnt be nerfed...
Did you actually say the cloak spam class with a teleportation node that gives minor maim and a proc up 10% flat mitigation has no way to mitigate damage other than roll dodge? Stamblade is the only stam class other than a necro running around easily with 3 damage sets this patch. what next magsorcs saying streak is the only defensive option on their class?3 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorry, but disagree.
Roll dodge is a mechanic that is also available to mag chars to use as well. I sometimes run 26-30K stam on my mag chars just to dodge and block when the game acts up.
If you don't want to invest in rolling, then that's your issue.
I don't think stam and mag are balanced, but I think the real solution is not to nerf defense mechanics any more when PvP is already like an FPS game. The solution I propose would be to reduce mag costs by around 4-6% for skills over 4K mag before factoring in light armor cost reduction.
If not that, then they need to look at the power scaling of some of these mag skills.
Not that any of that will matter if we get the coming patch where sets play the game for us...Edited by Kadoin on July 20, 2020 12:24AM2 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Yes lets nerf the only good defensive option stamina Nightblades have...
Such a stupid argument. Some classes like NBs rely on dodge rolls a lot because they cant just block and outheal like other classes, this whole argument shouldnt exist and is not thought through.
Most of the classes have undodgable skills or DoTs which helps with pressuring people once they start roll dodging.
Magicka:
Templars - Jabs
Necro - Blastbones
DK - DoTs
Warden - Shalks
Sorc - Curse
The only class which really struggles against roll dodging is ironically the NB itself. Even then the toolkit should be changed accordingly and dodge shouldnt be nerfed...xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Yes lets nerf the only good defensive option stamina Nightblades have...
Such a stupid argument. Some classes like NBs rely on dodge rolls a lot because they cant just block and outheal like other classes, this whole argument shouldnt exist and is not thought through.
Most of the classes have undodgable skills or DoTs which helps with pressuring people once they start roll dodging.
Magicka:
Templars - Jabs
Necro - Blastbones
DK - DoTs
Warden - Shalks
Sorc - Curse
The only class which really struggles against roll dodging is ironically the NB itself. Even then the toolkit should be changed accordingly and dodge shouldnt be nerfed...
Did you actually say the cloak spam class with a teleportation node that gives minor maim and a proc up 10% flat mitigation has no way to mitigate damage other than roll dodge? Stamblade is the only stam class other than a necro running around easily with 3 damage sets this patch. what next magsorcs saying streak is the only defensive option on their class?
Yes I did, shade requires you to place it beforehand, cloak doesnt work 90% of the time especially not if youre fighting outnumbered, the 10% mitigation is gone next patch as well. Roll dodge is the only "reliable" defensive option the stamNB has.8 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think roll should be less effective the more you spam it so maybe like 100% dodge chance on first roll then each roll after gets a lower % until you let roll fatigue drop off
But does blocking or healing lose effectiveness the more it's spammed? Does increasing damage lose more effectiveness the more you increase it? The answer is no, so why exactly should that happen to roll?
If you hate rollers so much, then actually pressure them or simply use cost poisons and/or DoTs when they are not rolling. No one can infini-roll anyway, and that people can roll more because ZOS put inside an OP mythic item is not the fault of the mechanic.5 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭I dont hate rollers I primarily play stam I just think its a good idea than what we have now the problem I have is [snip] spamming it 20 times because it is possible pressuring them wouldn't be a problem if half the games aoe actually worked and couldn't be dodged
[Edited to remove Offensive Content]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 20, 2020 1:52PM1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Stamina benefits from a 15% cost reduction to their skills (base values, as compared to what would be considered balanced without this argument). ZOS' reasoning behind this is that stamina players have to use their main stat pool also for rolls, blocking, and break free. In practice, in PvP, this supposed disatvantage is more like an advantage.
The cost reduction was decreased from 20% to 15% a few years ago. IMO, it should be removed completely. Stamina players could still go for crazy weapon damage, but at a higher opportunity cost.
If you go for roll dodge directly, its gonna be like>Roll dodge is too harsh on mag characters.
>Increase the cost of roll dodge
>?????
But its true tho, stamina users do have to use their main stat for block, dodge ,break free.
The difference is, magica has to build for some stamina (10k-15k in no CP) and stamina regeneration, or they will die from not being able to break the second or third CC in a fight.
Stamina can build for more magica and regeneration if they want to use a broader range of class skills, but they have options to go "full stamina".
I'm not saying neglecting magica on stamina toons is the best way to build, but IMO, the generic 15% cost reduction for stamina skills is not balanced.
Very few people go full stamina or magicka because everyone needs skills from the other bar to use. Going full stam as nightblade means you don't have enough magicka for cloak, you can only do 1 cloak and 1 shadow image or 1 shadow image and 1 teleport. Same thing goes for stamDk, warden,...etc. magicka is only limited us stamina on dodge roll, vlock or sprint.
15% stamina regen is totaly balance considering the fact that most actions like slotted skills and dodge roll, block, and sptring cost stamina where as magicka only affect slottedd skills.1 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »Stamina benefits from a 15% cost reduction to their skills (base values, as compared to what would be considered balanced without this argument). ZOS' reasoning behind this is that stamina players have to use their main stat pool also for rolls, blocking, and break free. In practice, in PvP, this supposed disatvantage is more like an advantage.
The cost reduction was decreased from 20% to 15% a few years ago. IMO, it should be removed completely. Stamina players could still go for crazy weapon damage, but at a higher opportunity cost.
If you go for roll dodge directly, its gonna be like>Roll dodge is too harsh on mag characters.
>Increase the cost of roll dodge
>?????
But its true tho, stamina users do have to use their main stat for block, dodge ,break free.
The difference is, magica has to build for some stamina (10k-15k in no CP) and stamina regeneration, or they will die from not being able to break the second or third CC in a fight.
Stamina can build for more magica and regeneration if they want to use a broader range of class skills, but they have options to go "full stamina".
I'm not saying neglecting magica on stamina toons is the best way to build, but IMO, the generic 15% cost reduction for stamina skills is not balanced.
Very few people go full stamina or magicka because everyone needs skills from the other bar to use. Going full stam as nightblade means you don't have enough magicka for cloak, you can only do 1 cloak and 1 shadow image or 1 shadow image and 1 teleport. Same thing goes for stamDk, warden,...etc. magicka is only limited us stamina on dodge roll, vlock or sprint.
15% stamina regen is totaly balance considering the fact that most actions like slotted skills and dodge roll, block, and sptring cost stamina where as magicka only affect slottedd skills.
Please remind me, if both specs use both their resource pools to the fullest, why again is there a 15% cost reduction for stamina skills? It's not that I don't get where the argument for cheaper stam skills comes from, it's more that I think it's not matching the reality in (no CP) PvP.
15% cost reduction is a lot, comparable to two five-piece set boni.no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored1 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭Magicka players are ranged, sometimes i am able to kill my opponents before they are able to come close. Also stop hating on dizzy swing, theres lots of counters. To mention some: block, literally run through them, roll dodge, stun or cast defenses when you know will get stunned. Increasing base cost for roll dodge will only hurt magicka players more since we also roll dodge when we need to. And if you die to dizzy swing dawnbreaker combo then you didnt have your defenses up unless if you fought a stamnecro cuz blastbones are overtuned.
The balance between magicka and stamina is allready created, stamina need mag sustain to be able to cast magicka skills resulting in slightly less damage, example is stamsorc needing to run orzorga or eternal vigor to sustain dark deal and streak. And magicka need stamina to roll dodge and break free. I never play magicka unless if i either have 15k+ stamina with 6-800 recovery or 10k with 500 recovery or less.
Not all magicka players Are range Magdk they suffer from negatives that range has because of the destro staff extra long heavy attack so sustain is hardy since they are melee and the opening to burst during is a lot higher.
Mag relies on stam more than stam does for mag.
But he is really wrong on increase roll dodge my Magdk highly relies on roll dodge a lot more than most mag builds.Edited by lucky_Sage on July 20, 2020 4:49AMDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Stamina benefits from a 15% cost reduction to their skills (base values, as compared to what would be considered balanced without this argument). ZOS' reasoning behind this is that stamina players have to use their main stat pool also for rolls, blocking, and break free. In practice, in PvP, this supposed disatvantage is more like an advantage.
The cost reduction was decreased from 20% to 15% a few years ago. IMO, it should be removed completely. Stamina players could still go for crazy weapon damage, but at a higher opportunity cost.
If you go for roll dodge directly, its gonna be like>Roll dodge is too harsh on mag characters.
>Increase the cost of roll dodge
>?????
But its true tho, stamina users do have to use their main stat for block, dodge ,break free.
The difference is, magica has to build for some stamina (10k-15k in no CP) and stamina regeneration, or they will die from not being able to break the second or third CC in a fight.
Stamina can build for more magica and regeneration if they want to use a broader range of class skills, but they have options to go "full stamina".
I'm not saying neglecting magica on stamina toons is the best way to build, but IMO, the generic 15% cost reduction for stamina skills is not balanced.
Very few people go full stamina or magicka because everyone needs skills from the other bar to use. Going full stam as nightblade means you don't have enough magicka for cloak, you can only do 1 cloak and 1 shadow image or 1 shadow image and 1 teleport. Same thing goes for stamDk, warden,...etc. magicka is only limited us stamina on dodge roll, vlock or sprint.
15% stamina regen is totaly balance considering the fact that most actions like slotted skills and dodge roll, block, and sptring cost stamina where as magicka only affect slottedd skills.
Please remind me, if both specs use both their resource pools to the fullest, why again is there a 15% cost reduction for stamina skills? It's not that I don't get where the argument for cheaper stam skills comes from, it's more that I think it's not matching the reality in (no CP) PvP.
15% cost reduction is a lot, comparable to two five-piece set boni.
Lets say you have 2k stamina regen. 1 sec of block/dode can cost you extra 2k stamina just for not getting the regen tick. This effect can add up in fight.4 -
Mortiis13✭✭✭✭Magicka had better options for healing, including powerfull shields.(especially since the heal nerf)
Also already had a magicka block with icestaff.
I have more troubles to survive with my stamina melee then my range mag chars.2 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lughlongarm wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »Stamina benefits from a 15% cost reduction to their skills (base values, as compared to what would be considered balanced without this argument). ZOS' reasoning behind this is that stamina players have to use their main stat pool also for rolls, blocking, and break free. In practice, in PvP, this supposed disatvantage is more like an advantage.
The cost reduction was decreased from 20% to 15% a few years ago. IMO, it should be removed completely. Stamina players could still go for crazy weapon damage, but at a higher opportunity cost.
If you go for roll dodge directly, its gonna be like>Roll dodge is too harsh on mag characters.
>Increase the cost of roll dodge
>?????
But its true tho, stamina users do have to use their main stat for block, dodge ,break free.
The difference is, magica has to build for some stamina (10k-15k in no CP) and stamina regeneration, or they will die from not being able to break the second or third CC in a fight.
Stamina can build for more magica and regeneration if they want to use a broader range of class skills, but they have options to go "full stamina".
I'm not saying neglecting magica on stamina toons is the best way to build, but IMO, the generic 15% cost reduction for stamina skills is not balanced.
Very few people go full stamina or magicka because everyone needs skills from the other bar to use. Going full stam as nightblade means you don't have enough magicka for cloak, you can only do 1 cloak and 1 shadow image or 1 shadow image and 1 teleport. Same thing goes for stamDk, warden,...etc. magicka is only limited us stamina on dodge roll, vlock or sprint.
15% stamina regen is totaly balance considering the fact that most actions like slotted skills and dodge roll, block, and sptring cost stamina where as magicka only affect slottedd skills.
Please remind me, if both specs use both their resource pools to the fullest, why again is there a 15% cost reduction for stamina skills? It's not that I don't get where the argument for cheaper stam skills comes from, it's more that I think it's not matching the reality in (no CP) PvP.
15% cost reduction is a lot, comparable to two five-piece set boni.
Lets say you have 2k stamina regen. 1 sec of block/dode can cost you extra 2k stamina just for not getting the regen tick. This effect can add up in fight.
Not convinced yet, blocking is not exclusive to stamina toons. Missing stamina regeneration ticks during block should be balanced with block cost, not broad cost reductions.
To be fair, there is not much you can say to change my mind. I thought a lot about it over the years, and found no argument that really warrants a strong generic cost reduction of stamina skills. This is based on personal observations how mag/stam chars build in no CP PvP.
no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭High elf - Restores lowest resource when activating a class ability
Dunmer - Has an extra 1850 stamina
Argonian - 4k tristat on potion
Khajiit - Increased stamina recovery, increased max stamina
Before the u23 racials changed I played highelf (0 stamina buffs), I switched to dunmer to roll more in PVE (MoS HM is easy-mode on a dunmer lol)
Plenty of good options for rolling as a mag build if you want to pvp, for sure stamia builds have it better but the margin is a LOT smaller than you think. My stamina is worth nothing outside of me running or rolling, it regens passively - a stam build on the otherhand is faced with stamina drain pots, and rolling completely wiping out their ability to do damage if it goes on too long.
My stamsorc is maybe slightly better for rolling, but it has a lot less heals outside of its rend ult cycle.
tldr; Mag builds have good stamina regen racial options, they're not that much weaker rolling wise than stam builds, they have stronger self healing typicially, and stop running in BGs and learn to use channeled acceleration / bird of prey etc.. (running in BGs is a death sentence)EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think roll should be less effective the more you spam it so maybe like 100% dodge chance on first roll then each roll after gets a lower % until you let roll fatigue drop off
It already has this type of mechanic. When you roll you get 2 buffs, one prevents damage for a short period, the other lasts for 4 seconds, stacks (refreshing the cooldown) if you roll again before it drops, and significantly increases the cost of rolling.
I roll twice in quick succession its game over, some DK casts petrify on me like noobs be doing, and its gg.
if I wait 4 seconds between every roll I can roll 6+ times before im out of stamina
(On a mag build)EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade0 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »Stamina benefits from a 15% cost reduction to their skills (base values, as compared to what would be considered balanced without this argument). ZOS' reasoning behind this is that stamina players have to use their main stat pool also for rolls, blocking, and break free. In practice, in PvP, this supposed disatvantage is more like an advantage.
The cost reduction was decreased from 20% to 15% a few years ago. IMO, it should be removed completely. Stamina players could still go for crazy weapon damage, but at a higher opportunity cost.
If you go for roll dodge directly, its gonna be like>Roll dodge is too harsh on mag characters.
>Increase the cost of roll dodge
>?????
But its true tho, stamina users do have to use their main stat for block, dodge ,break free.
The difference is, magica has to build for some stamina (10k-15k in no CP) and stamina regeneration, or they will die from not being able to break the second or third CC in a fight.
Stamina can build for more magica and regeneration if they want to use a broader range of class skills, but they have options to go "full stamina".
I'm not saying neglecting magica on stamina toons is the best way to build, but IMO, the generic 15% cost reduction for stamina skills is not balanced.
Very few people go full stamina or magicka because everyone needs skills from the other bar to use. Going full stam as nightblade means you don't have enough magicka for cloak, you can only do 1 cloak and 1 shadow image or 1 shadow image and 1 teleport. Same thing goes for stamDk, warden,...etc. magicka is only limited us stamina on dodge roll, vlock or sprint.
15% stamina regen is totaly balance considering the fact that most actions like slotted skills and dodge roll, block, and sptring cost stamina where as magicka only affect slottedd skills.
Please remind me, if both specs use both their resource pools to the fullest, why again is there a 15% cost reduction for stamina skills? It's not that I don't get where the argument for cheaper stam skills comes from, it's more that I think it's not matching the reality in (no CP) PvP.
15% cost reduction is a lot, comparable to two five-piece set boni.
Lets say you have 2k stamina regen. 1 sec of block/dode can cost you extra 2k stamina just for not getting the regen tick. This effect can add up in fight.
Not convinced yet, blocking is not exclusive to stamina toons. Missing stamina regeneration ticks during block should be balanced with block cost, not broad cost reductions.
To be fair, there is not much you can say to change my mind. I thought a lot about it over the years, and found no argument that really warrants a strong generic cost reduction of stamina skills. This is based on personal observations how mag/stam chars build in no CP PvP.
I think you are missing the point. Blocking cost got nothing to do with it. Players block to cancel animations as well. This part of combat. Same for dodge roll. You don't get regen ticks while dodging. If you block on magicka toon it will not shut down your main source resource regen. This is why most players prefer not to take the ice blocking passive, it just doesn't worth it sustain wise. Also, the 15% cost reduction is not absolute. For example vigor cost much more than rapid regen. Both skills have similar effects. Bone shield and Annulment cost almost the same(less than 5% difference), most spammable are around 2.2k resource for both magicka and stamina.
If you actually check real bar setups for both magicka nd stamina, I'm almost sure that the average cost difference will not be 15%. The real power of stamina toons sustain does not come from the cost reduction.
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Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Psijic guild passives should just add an option to allow roll dodge to consume magicka like a "misty step"
Also just make dodge mitigate only 60% of the dmg of skills rather than 100%.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)4 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭M]agicka character do not use up their stamina for anything other than dodgerolling and breaking free while stamina character need to use up their stamina just to deal damage...
Idk. Sounds balanced to me.
Umm no.
The OP is misguided, but that's just wrong.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
SpiderKnight✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magicka players are ranged, sometimes i am able to kill my opponents before they are able to come close. Also stop hating on dizzy swing, theres lots of counters. To mention some: block, literally run through them, roll dodge, stun or cast defenses when you know will get stunned. Increasing base cost for roll dodge will only hurt magicka players more since we also roll dodge when we need to. And if you die to dizzy swing dawnbreaker combo then you didnt have your defenses up unless if you fought a stamnecro cuz blastbones are overtuned.
The balance between magicka and stamina is allready created, stamina need mag sustain to be able to cast magicka skills resulting in slightly less damage, example is stamsorc needing to run orzorga or eternal vigor to sustain dark deal and streak. And magicka need stamina to roll dodge and break free. I never play magicka unless if i either have 15k+ stamina with 6-800 recovery or 10k with 500 recovery or less.
If we don't have enough stam to dodge roll, we don't have enough to block, run, etc. while some unskilled spams dizzy over and over. There's a reason every stam player uses it...3 -
ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭I can agree to OP to an extent.
Stamina Characters gets a base increase to all weapon damage by 15% increasing damage output and heals effectively.
Magicka lost almost ALL multipliers to max and are only found in skill lines and the slotting of abilities from mage guild magicka resulting in lower damage output across the board due to losing a slot for something more important that offers more than a DoT, predictable BLOCK-ABLE ultimate, delayed trap CC(which is really fun to use but is not viable for forced burst combinations) and a buggy stealth reveal.
The magicka sets offer lower damage because of the lack of %modifiers to damage.
The PvP is still balanced by a percentage modifier of 50% reduced damage, reduced SHIELDS and healing (recently saw a nerf) the main defensive option (light armor) SHIELD is effectively worse than shuffle. Needing CP points to increase effectiveness, max magicka only (not benefiting from total spell power) and is now able to be crit. With the cost being High and can be destroyed in 1 GCD. The only class who can effectively benefit from the damage shield is a Sorcerer, which can stack 2 shields effectively. Yes although shuffle does not get buffed by any CP or any damage or resource multipliers it adds a base 25% mitigation from AoE damage. And either gives major expedition or snare removal. Shields offer no extra mitigation outside of extra HP(basically). There is also a direct counter to shields in form of CP to do extra damage to a person wearing them. Making light armor users effectively more squishy when fighting an appropriated player. If there is so many counters to shield play with shields being gutted how are Magicka players even able to compete to the ability they have? By sticking together, watch positioning and thinking prematurely about the decisions they make. Stamina is more reactive in a sense where they can do multiple actions in a chain to avoid death a little better. Vigor and roll dodge. And may do this a little better than magicka toons. Magicka toons have stronger burst heal options generally. But will have to spam to avoid death. As magicka players have less stamina to roll dodge and avoid executes or want to avoid blocking alot to prevent a cc when they are to low stamina to break it. They are left with little options to recover and when caught without the secondary resource and way more punishable than a stamina character that has less magicka. With magicka toons having to worry about mitigation in light armor paired with stronger heals to counter burst when healing has been nerfed with an almost useless shield which needs max magicka and CP to make viable. The disparity in balance becomes much more apparent in surviving PvP content.
This guy gets it. Stacking magicka is the only way mag characters can survive because they dont factor in spell power, this makes 4 or so sets the staple, the difference is that stamina can stack everything into weapon damage leading them to have 7k weapon damage in most cases because the heals scale with both.2 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ItsNotLiving wrote: »This guy gets it. Stacking magicka is the only way mag characters can survive because they dont factor in spell power, this makes 4 or so sets the staple, the difference is that stamina can stack everything into weapon damage leading them to have 7k weapon damage in most cases because the heals scale with both.
Maybe if you play a ranged magicka char, but there isn't any mag char that can't be played melee without shields. I do it on all my mag chars, even sorc.
That you choose to only stack mag is a build choice, and that build choice costs you somewhere down the line. That kind of sounds like balance to a degree...
1 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭Dodge roll is extremely effective. The counters to dodge rolls have been nerfed over the years.1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Roll dodge is fine, Vigor is awful now, so if you still can't kill stam players it's on you.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer2 -
LeHarrt91✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are so many skills that are undodgable now, i dont think increasing the cost still benefit magicka in the slightest.
Stamina have cost dodge cost reduction via Medium armor and can stack it with CP and Well Fitted. As a magicka character you can also use CP and Well Fitted and get a tiny boost if use 1 medium for the Undaunted passive.
If you have trouble with Stam sustain try using Amber Plasm.PS NA
Have played all classes.
Warden Main0 -
thegreatme✭✭✭✭✭SpiderKnight wrote: »There's a reason every stam player uses it...
Except not every stam player uses Two-Handed lolThank You ZoS!:
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SpiderKnight✭✭✭✭✭
✭thegreatme wrote: »SpiderKnight wrote: »There's a reason every stam player uses it...
Except not every stam player uses Two-Handed lol
Derp, it wasn't literal, but go into bgs, there's never not at least one dizzy spammer in all my matches.1
