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Why did Zenimax make fixed skilltrees?
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BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO actually started development prior to Skyrim. Also they use them as tools to reward certain aspects of the game. Want the goodies? Then you need to participate in the content.9 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because it's an MMO based on Elder Scrolls, not an Elder Scrolls game that happens to have lots of players?
(also, trying to balance MMO content for a collection of defined classes is bad enough. Trying to design & balance it for a totally freeform min/max/powergaming mess? That would be awful.)29 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This ain't Skyrim. Personally, I preferred having classes as in earlier games to how they did it in Skyrim, but Skyrim also isn't Morrowind."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle13 -
Wilddog73✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Because it's an MMO based on Elder Scrolls, not an Elder Scrolls game that happens to have lots of players?
(also, trying to balance MMO content for a collection of defined classes is bad enough. Trying to design & balance it for a totally freeform min/max/powergaming mess? That would be awful.)
Was it harder for Ultima Online?1 -
BRCOURTN✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Because it's an MMO based on Elder Scrolls, not an Elder Scrolls game that happens to have lots of players?
(also, trying to balance MMO content for a collection of defined classes is bad enough. Trying to design & balance it for a totally freeform min/max/powergaming mess? That would be awful.)
Was it harder for Ultima Online?
I dont think its a stretch to say this game and Ultima Online are completely different games, and we shouldn't really be comparing their styles in gameplay or progression.9 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Because it's an MMO based on Elder Scrolls, not an Elder Scrolls game that happens to have lots of players?
(also, trying to balance MMO content for a collection of defined classes is bad enough. Trying to design & balance it for a totally freeform min/max/powergaming mess? That would be awful.)
Was it harder for Ultima Online?
Well I can compare it to TSW which is 100% like that.
Guess what? Every build was an ele force build.0 -
BRCOURTN✭✭✭✭✭Skyrim isn't and it's about the same.
??? How is skyrim remotely the same as this game? MMOs are different than single player games in so many aspects.
Anyways, I'm glad they made a class system in this game. Its fun and I like making new characters. I think 'to each their own' applies here.0 -
Wilddog73✭✭The secret world was already terrible though.
Besides, skyrim isn't known for players only making certain builds. Neither was Ultima online.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, me too. IMO classes have added nothing but grief to this game lol. The only benefit to classes would be if they offered very distinct gameplay styles, but over the years they made them more and more the same to account for "balance". A more free system at least wouldn't brick whole characters with each patch.
They had a good concept with the skill bar as a limiting factor, but didn't follow through with passives and such.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.3 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do miss finding spells on your own. Getting something cool out of RNG and immediately testing it out. Feels like that part of adventuring is missing.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.2 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I would like all skill lines available to all characters.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis7 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »I would like all skill lines available to all characters.
I would rather have choices matter. My first character was a disaster because I made poor choices. Took a while to get him kinda straightened out but was still fun. He mostly does all my crafting now but I still let him run amok from time to time. My 2nd character is still a mess and one I'm not sure I can fix. Third character though is doing great.
Those characters along with my 21 other characters across two accounts would be bland if all skill lines were available to each and every one of them.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
wild_kmacdb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Access to every classes skills would be a bit much.
I think something like a 'subclass' system might be ok though.EX; you can choose a second class that gives you access to all of its abilities except its Ultimates, however you can only have 1 of this classes abilities slotted on your bar at any time.Edited by wild_kmacdb16_ESO on July 20, 2020 3:33AM0 -
Wilddog73✭✭wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »Access to every classes skills would be a bit much.
I think something like a 'subclass' system might be ok though.EX; you can choose a second class that gives you access to all of its abilities except its Ultimates, however you can only have 1 of this classes abilities slotted on your bar at any time.
Or having to pick and choose wisely with a points system.2 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Because it's an MMO based on Elder Scrolls, not an Elder Scrolls game that happens to have lots of players?
(also, trying to balance MMO content for a collection of defined classes is bad enough. Trying to design & balance it for a totally freeform min/max/powergaming mess? That would be awful.)
Was it harder for Ultima Online?
Ultima, though ahead of its time, had very few skills in total. The complexity of that game came from the players' interactions, both friendly and rivalry. The systems were, compared to today, quite simple.0 -
Wilddog73✭✭Bradyfjord wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Because it's an MMO based on Elder Scrolls, not an Elder Scrolls game that happens to have lots of players?
(also, trying to balance MMO content for a collection of defined classes is bad enough. Trying to design & balance it for a totally freeform min/max/powergaming mess? That would be awful.)
Was it harder for Ultima Online?
Ultima, though ahead of its time, had very few skills in total. The complexity of that game came from the players' interactions, both friendly and rivalry. The systems were, compared to today, quite simple.
Hmm, how about Runescape then?1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That feels like a bit of a cop out reply. Just because it is a mmo, does not mean classes or limited abilities are required.
Fallout 76 is a mmo and is classless. Yet players can make healing, tanking, and dps type builds. Plus they have a variety of ways each can be done.
In ESO they tried to make all classes do all things, and tried to make race choices multi functional as well. But they consistently fail at it.
If they had a system more like Skyrim’s they would not be in this mess.
5 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO actually started development prior to Skyrim. Also they use them as tools to reward certain aspects of the game. Want the goodies? Then you need to participate in the content.
Earlier development is not the issue as they were probably working on the game client. There was a three year gap between Skyrim and ESO. Plenty of time to make the game feel more like Skyrim.
Not to mention Skyrim did not just appear out of thin air. I know they are different studios but there must have been some communication between the two teams as they worked on their games. I find it hard to believe the zos team could not get an early alpha of Skyrim and then do a riff off of that.
If they could not then that would imply lots of “interesting” issues about eso’s development.Edited by BlueRaven on July 20, 2020 7:20AM1 -
Wilddog73✭✭... How come TES don't do what runescape does? Multiple levels for different skill trees. Like levelling one eventually lets you do telekinesis and lets you steal money from banks.
Another level determines what kind of armor you can use. Whereas in skyrim, all exp goes into one bar and all skills are accessible through that.1 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I won't defend a "classless" option in an MMO -- it would indeed make balancing a nightmare and make everyone who is chasing the meta run the exact same build. I just want to make it clear that neither Morrowind nor Oblivion had "hard" classes. They showed you some recommendations in the character setup, but they could all be completely ignored in favor of your own selection of skill lines and perks. Playing the "meta" in those games to get the most out of your character was all about breaking free of those molds and designing your own "class". Skyrim just made this the default.
0 -
Spearpoint✭✭✭... How come TES don't do what runescape does? Multiple levels for different skill trees. Like levelling one eventually lets you do telekinesis and lets you steal money from banks.
Another level determines what kind of armor you can use. Whereas in skyrim, all exp goes into one bar and all skills are accessible through that.
Oh man, I would honestly love to go for 99 Woodcutting again! The skill system in RuneScape is still my favorite.Arinwyn ~ Cute Wood Elf Archer
Wardena ~ Frost Wardeness [Died alongside Arctic Blast]
Dry Spell ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ
Dark Heart of Skyrim 🍺
Bomblebee ~ cya'll out there
Bouncing Betty ~ Front Toward Enemy
Spearpoint ~ Jab Them With The Pointy End
Six Feet Above ~ Reapertime!
Bisolar Disorder - Bright & Moody
Django Unleashed ~ Mr. Nordic Bather's Towel
Master Angler ~ Struggles With Ichthyophobia
Ichthyophobia ~ Secretely Dreams of Becoming a Master Angler
Lol Brb
"Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." — Queen Ayrenn0 -
Spearpoint✭✭✭Spearpoint wrote: »... How come TES don't do what runescape does? Multiple levels for different skill trees. Like levelling one eventually lets you do telekinesis and lets you steal money from banks.
Another level determines what kind of armor you can use. Whereas in skyrim, all exp goes into one bar and all skills are accessible through that.
Oh man, I would honestly love to go for 99 Woodcutting again! The skill system in RuneScape is still my favorite.
The crafting bag with unlimited space would get a whoole new fanbase
Arinwyn ~ Cute Wood Elf Archer
Wardena ~ Frost Wardeness [Died alongside Arctic Blast]
Dry Spell ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ
Dark Heart of Skyrim 🍺
Bomblebee ~ cya'll out there
Bouncing Betty ~ Front Toward Enemy
Spearpoint ~ Jab Them With The Pointy End
Six Feet Above ~ Reapertime!
Bisolar Disorder - Bright & Moody
Django Unleashed ~ Mr. Nordic Bather's Towel
Master Angler ~ Struggles With Ichthyophobia
Ichthyophobia ~ Secretely Dreams of Becoming a Master Angler
Lol Brb
"Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." — Queen Ayrenn0 -
Wilddog73✭✭Spearpoint wrote: »Spearpoint wrote: »... How come TES don't do what runescape does? Multiple levels for different skill trees. Like levelling one eventually lets you do telekinesis and lets you steal money from banks.
Another level determines what kind of armor you can use. Whereas in skyrim, all exp goes into one bar and all skills are accessible through that.
Oh man, I would honestly love to go for 99 Woodcutting again! The skill system in RuneScape is still my favorite.
The crafting bag with unlimited space would get a whoole new fanbase
If we could just make the activities funner than they are in runescape for a first/third person perspective!0
