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Does Zenimax listen to the community?
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BRCOURTN✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!Sylvermynx wrote: »Not voting as it's a really biased "poll".Why not negotiate? Why not tell us what the problem is with our ideas and work together to come up with a solution or alternative? I'd love to see some community/dev debate.
Because every game dev in most games of this sort has a plan for the game itself, and very little of the "forum fog" is anything they're interested in. This is my third MMORPG (the others being WoW and RIFT - left WoW in 2013 and RIFT in 2016 since neither of them was fun for me any more and both were heading in directions I didn't like at all), and ALL the devs were pretty much like this.
This is fine. A product has to have staff which has a plan. We don't know the plan, and it's really not our business to shove our oars in. When this game (as with the others I mentioned) stops being fun for me, I'll stop subbing two accounts, buying crowns, and playing 10 hours a day. And that's the bottom line: if it's not fun, find something else to play and spend your money on.
In general, the times the devs in the other games actually interfaced with forum-users, it turned into a total balls-up, with the forum users being all pissy over "being ignored", and the devs posting politely that they had "enough information" - then going ahead with (probably) what they'd had in the works already anyway.
If you want to have real viable input into a game, you will need to make that game yourself - then you become the dev, and if you want to have a thousand players arguing with your every move and decision, well.... go for it.
I think a more efficient course of action would be to let players modify the game themselves and let players test it out themselves on public test servers, not waste time and money on whatever these living wage starved development hyenas chose to do.
God this would be just the worst idea... this game has a ton of competitive aspects, and letting players choose what to do wouldnt be just dumb, it would cause extreme internal conflict among the community. Also what does how much they make have to do with the production of their game?2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do that instead of just convincing a developer that it costs less to let the modding community do the work for you?
ZOS is affiliated with Bethesda, so they already know that the modding community will finish and fix games. The trick is how to do that with an MMO that millions might play. That is where you come in, with some investors and people who can make that happen. Then you can sell the company to Zenimax Media and retire rich.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!They could decide what mods to add to the base game based on number of downloads. As options, probably.0 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!Why do that instead of just convincing a developer that it costs less to let the modding community do the work for you?
ZOS is affiliated with Bethesda, so they already know that the modding community will finish and fix games. The trick is how to do that with an MMO that millions might play. That is where you come in, with some investors and people who can make that happen. Then you can sell the company to Zenimax Media and retire rich.
So why don't you do it?0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do that instead of just convincing a developer that it costs less to let the modding community do the work for you?
ZOS is affiliated with Bethesda, so they already know that the modding community will finish and fix games. The trick is how to do that with an MMO that millions might play. That is where you come in, with some investors and people who can make that happen. Then you can sell the company to Zenimax Media and retire rich.
So why don't you do it?
Because it is your idea.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2700+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see!Misery's Master | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Former Empress0 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!Why do that instead of just convincing a developer that it costs less to let the modding community do the work for you?
ZOS is affiliated with Bethesda, so they already know that the modding community will finish and fix games. The trick is how to do that with an MMO that millions might play. That is where you come in, with some investors and people who can make that happen. Then you can sell the company to Zenimax Media and retire rich.
So why don't you do it?
Because it is your idea.
Well, you sound pretty confident, whaddya got against getting rich?
Could even make your own spin on it.0 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭Never. Whenever I see this "game", my eyes sink into their sockets and I ironically find myself relating to the soulless husk of my character. Zenimax is dead inside and so is my hope for this game.The commentary does bias the poll. Just saying.
We know for a fact Zos does listen to players' feedback as there are many examples where Zos has made adjustments based on our feedback. Granted, that does not mean Zos changes everything where a player provides feedback and that would be a poor way to run any business since we often do not agree amongst ourselves so Zos would be chasing a moving target to no end.
Except the number one complaint is performance issues. And they just downgraded the servers after the MYM event and put our performance back into the trash can as soon as the event was over. That's the opposite of listening to the community on the number one issue facing the community and the issue the community is most vocal about.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[Snip]. You can petition them, sometimes you even get an audience, but whether anything is done seems to depend on their current mood and level of consciousness, and the decisions are ultimately made behind closed doors.
[Edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on July 21, 2020 6:20PMAlandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, they listen, but only so they can do the opposite.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.5 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."4 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.
"God works in mysterious ways"0 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!This poll is ***
That aside - they definitely do listen. But they also do have their own vision and roadmap and (as a dev myself I cannot stress this enough) resources limit, so if they don't act on feedback it doesn't mean they don't hear it.
Also don't forget that loudest aren't always the biggest crowd. A vet minmaxer may be incredibly (and even reasonably) disappointed by some changes, but if they benefit casual majority - we get these changes.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Right... Listening does not even imply a response, and it certainly does not imply agreement.
I am not keen on ZOS running out and saying that they won't do stuff on a routine basis. They have said this about a couple things, like global auction house, and it doesn't seem to have any effect on the conversations. If they did this a lot, there would be accusations, rebuttals, and negotiations around something that ZOS has already crossed off the list. Hurt feelings would run rampant. It would be a very negative situation.
On the other hand, it would be nice if ZOS spent a little more time chatting up ideas that they do like. I have seen Lambert do this, on occasion, without making any commitment to deliver. We might see those things, or we might not. The risk with doing that is then people expect it, even if there was no commitment.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
BRCOURTN✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.
"God works in mysterious ways"
Theyre developers, they created this world.1 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.
"God works in mysterious ways"
Theyre developers, they created this world.
This one, where I can rile up dissatisfied gamers and convince some not to sub maybe?0 -
BRCOURTN✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.
"God works in mysterious ways"
Theyre developers, they created this world.
This one, where I can rile up dissatisfied gamers and convince some not to sub maybe?
I dont believe you're affecting anyone's decisions. The 5% of players on these forums have generally made up their minds about the game. Not a lot of newbies here. You might try reddit.1 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean yeah they do.... Just the wrong people. Take stonefist for instance. Another dumb ranged spammable for a melee class... Cause it worked for warden... Necro... DK.... So they should work for stamsorc..... Next patch jabs only mag but now javelin... Next patch SA now does heals and there is a Stam cripple spammable.... Melee needs melee skills bow builds have snip. Stop ZoS get some help.Edited by Onefrkncrzypope on July 20, 2020 2:50AM-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.
"God works in mysterious ways"
Theyre developers, they created this world.
And... Lambert leads the creation of the world. Does that make Lambert a god?
Hopefully, this does not go to his head and he ends up being unable to fit through the doors in his house. 
Wait... did I just speak badly about a god? 
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.
"God works in mysterious ways"
Theyre developers, they created this world.
This one, where I can rile up dissatisfied gamers and convince some not to sub maybe?
I dont believe you're affecting anyone's decisions. The 5% of players on these forums have generally made up their minds about the game. Not a lot of newbies here. You might try reddit.
Honestly, I wasn't expecting the "No" option to lead the way at all, but there's clearly some discontent.0 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no "sometimes" option so I didn't vote.
They listen sometimes. Sometimes they don't.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why not negotiate? Why not tell us what the problem is with our ideas and work together to come up with a solution or alternative? I'd love to see some community/dev debate.
Most of the ideas and suggestions I have seen posted in the forums come from a very narrow focus of one person's desire and does not take into account other areas of the game nor other players' playstyle. They are very ill-thought. There is no reason to negotiate with such poorly conceived ideas no matter how well-intended they were. Most fall into that bucket and others are not worthy business-wise.
A great example that has come up from time to time is adding player-created content. Yes, other games have done this such as Neverwinter (though they abandoned that a couple of years ago). Those games tend to be lower quality to begin with and the player-created content is even lower quality. Zos would have to pay someone to review all submitted content for quality and likely reject all of them. There is no need to negotiate on something like this.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do that instead of just convincing a developer that it costs less to let the modding community do the work for you?
ZOS is affiliated with Bethesda, so they already know that the modding community will finish and fix games. The trick is how to do that with an MMO that millions might play. That is where you come in, with some investors and people who can make that happen. Then you can sell the company to Zenimax Media and retire rich.
So why don't you do it?
When you rely on other to do it for you then you get what they want, not what you want.1 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!SydneyGrey wrote: »There is no "sometimes" option so I didn't vote.
They listen sometimes. Sometimes they don't.
Sounds like your problem if they don't care you can't add your own answer to a poll.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Never. Whenever I see this "game", my eyes sink into their sockets and I ironically find myself relating to the soulless husk of my character. Zenimax is dead inside and so is my hope for this game.I mean lol.
Abilities all homogenized, large portions of the Endgame PvP+PvE players already left, game performance is atrocious, etc.....
Lately they have listened a bit more, but the damage is already done.2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.
"God works in mysterious ways"
Theyre developers, they created this world.
This one, where I can rile up dissatisfied gamers and convince some not to sub maybe?
I dont believe you're affecting anyone's decisions. The 5% of players on these forums have generally made up their minds about the game. Not a lot of newbies here. You might try reddit.
Honestly, I wasn't expecting the "No" option to lead the way at all, but there's clearly some discontent.
Kind of human nature. If everything is fine or going like we wish we are less likely to comment than if we perceive things are wrong. You say you want pickles on your burger and don't get them you are apt to complain. You get the pickles you aren't going to take the time to let them know you appreciate they remembered the pickles.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Silly poll options.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.2 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!Silly poll options.
I especially recommend the ESO VR option, my personal favorite.So when was the last time zenimax listened to the community?
I'm guessing each and every day. That we don't get an answer every day doesn't mean they do not listen. When we do get an answer and it isn't the one we want that still doesn't mean they were not listening.
Latest example of Zenimax listening to the community is happening on the PTS now with the addition of house guests.
"God works in mysterious ways"
Theyre developers, they created this world.
This one, where I can rile up dissatisfied gamers and convince some not to sub maybe?
I dont believe you're affecting anyone's decisions. The 5% of players on these forums have generally made up their minds about the game. Not a lot of newbies here. You might try reddit.
Honestly, I wasn't expecting the "No" option to lead the way at all, but there's clearly some discontent.
Kind of human nature. If everything is fine or going like we wish we are less likely to comment than if we perceive things are wrong. You say you want pickles on your burger and don't get them you are apt to complain. You get the pickles you aren't going to take the time to let them know you appreciate they remembered the pickles.
Being a paying customer ain't appreciation enough for ya?0 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!Yes, I've seen several terribad ideas which were suggested on forums later implemented in game. So apparently devs do listen. (Unless they sometimes sockpuppet their most terrible ideas.)1
This discussion has been closed.