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Bloodthirsty new change theoretically TRASH?
LuxLunae
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Bloodthirsty: This trait now grants up to 250 Weapon and Spell Damage against targets under 90% Health, scaling linearly per 1% missing Health, rather than granting a flat 10% damage increase against targets under 25% Health.
ok so I might be wrong about this but theoretically here... 250/100 = 2.5 per 1%
So at 50% health it would be like 125 weapon damage at 25 % health it would be at 188 weapon damage.
You don't gain these weapon damages to yourself but to the opponent only.
So let me see here....if I get this correct....
Gold glyph + 50%health bonus would be like 175+125 = 300.
Gold glyph + 25% health bonus would be like 175+188=362.
BUT if you do infused
Gold Glyph infused is 278 weapon damage on yourself that can be put up by major brutality 20% so a static 300 about....
In an essance you would still want infused because you would want to attack and heal yourself as well.. instead of putting the 250 against a target...
Does this make any sense or am I wrong?
ok so I might be wrong about this but theoretically here... 250/100 = 2.5 per 1%
So at 50% health it would be like 125 weapon damage at 25 % health it would be at 188 weapon damage.
You don't gain these weapon damages to yourself but to the opponent only.
So let me see here....if I get this correct....
Gold glyph + 50%health bonus would be like 175+125 = 300.
Gold glyph + 25% health bonus would be like 175+188=362.
BUT if you do infused
Gold Glyph infused is 278 weapon damage on yourself that can be put up by major brutality 20% so a static 300 about....
In an essance you would still want infused because you would want to attack and heal yourself as well.. instead of putting the 250 against a target...
Does this make any sense or am I wrong?
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LuxLunae✭✭✭✭✭I am not sure if I made this clear but bloodthirstys weapon damage is moot be cause it's against a target ....
So this weapon damage cannot be buffed, used to heal, or give constant damge.
Infused is the no brainer winner...theoretically...not sure how it is on live.
It is why gladiator set will possibly never be anything worth while...you have to wait until the target is at 25% health. Use hundings rage over it and your execute usually can finish em. Making gladiator worthless in pvp....and possibly PVE...Edited by LuxLunae on July 16, 2020 2:20AM3 -
LuxLunae✭✭✭✭✭maddiniiLuna wrote: »
because some people at zos, instead of acknowledge that their current change is lacking will go out of their way to nerf something else to fit the new change. Rather than just simply upping the weapon damage/spell damage on bloodthirsty.Edited by LuxLunae on July 16, 2020 7:27AM1 -
Celestro✭✭✭I'm pretty sure the Weapon/Spell Damage applied by Bloodthirsty is affected by effects that would increase them, like Major Brutality. But discussion on Bloodthirsty vs Infused is covered here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537486/bloodthirsty-vs-infused-jewelry-trait-answered#latest
You do have a point on one I didn't think about myself though, in that Bloodthirsty won't affect healing like Infused would. Its not something too relevant if you have healers on hand I don't believe but still something for some to take into consideration maybe.1 -
Soundinfinite✭✭✭✭250/90 not 100 as it is only spread over 90% and not 100%.
250/90=2.778 Spell/Weapon damage =1%
Infused already uses the Glyph and the Glyph Must be an Increase Damage glyph to compare.
Example
100% Health =
Infused 174*1.6=278 Weapon/Spell Damage
Bloodthirsty 0*2.778= 0 + 174 (Glyph)= 174 Weapon/Spell Damage
75% Health =
Infused 174*1.6=278 Weapon/Spell Damage
Bloodthirsty 2.778*15= 41 + 174 (Glyph) = 215 Weapon/Spell Damage
50% Health =
Infused 174*1.6=278 Weapon/Spell Damage
Bloodthirsty = 2.778*40= 111 + 174 (Glyph) = 285 Weapon/Spell Damage
25% Health =
Infused 174*1.6=278 Weapon Spell Damage
Bloodthirsty = 2.778*65= 180 + 174 (Glyph) = 354 Weapon/Spell Damage
Also, you could Glyph a Bloodthirsty Ring with Regeneration etc...and still build power through the fight based off its trait vs Infused which completely loses the Power if you change the glyph.
If you want to take in your buffs then the equation changes and there is more of an extreme between Stamina and Magicka. Yes, the extra damage from Bloodthirsty does not go into your weapon/spell damage pool so it is NOT affected by raw buffs.
Stamina= 15% Medium Armor + Major Brutality 20% + Minor Brutality 10% + 2 Fighters Guild Skills 6% = 1.51% (Sorc Extra 6%))
Magicka = Major Sorcery 20% + Minor Sorcery 10% = 1.3% (Sorc extra 10%)
Example:
100% Health =
Stamina Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.51= 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Sorc Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.57= 437 Weapon Damage
Magicka Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.3= 361 Spell Damage
Magicka Sorc Infused = 174*1.6=728*1.4= 389 Spell Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 0*2.778=0 +174*1.51= 262 Weapon Damage
Stamina Sorc Bloodthristy= 0*2.778=0 =174*1.57= 273 Weapon Damage
Magicka Bloodthristy= 0*2.778= 0 + 174*1.3 = 226 Spell Damage
Magicka Sorc Bloodthristy= 0*2.778 = 0 + 174*1.4= 243 Spell Damage
75% Health =
Stamina Infused = 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Sorc Infused= 437 Weapon Damage
Magicka Infused = 361 Spell Damage
Magicka Sorc Infused = 389 Spell Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 15*2.778= 41 + 262 = 303 Weapon Damage
Stamina Sorc Bloodthristy= 15*2.778= 41 + 273 = 314 weapon Damage
Magicka Bloodthristy= 15*2.778= 41 + 226 = 267 Spell Damage
Magicka Sorc Bloodthirsty = 15*2.778= 41 + 243= 284 Spell Damage
50% Health =
Stamina Infused = 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Sorc Infused = 437 Weapon Damage
Magicka Infused = 361 Spell Damage
Magicka Sorc Infused = 389 Spell Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 40*2.778= 111 + 262 = 373 Weapon Damage
Stamina Sorc Bloodthirsty 40*2.778 = 111 + 273 = 384 Weapon Damage
Magicka Bloodthristy= 40*2.778= 111 + 226 = 337 Spell Damage
Magicka Sorc Bloodthristy= 40*2.778= 111 + 243 = 354 Spell Damage
25% Health =
Stamina Infused= 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Sorc Infused = 437 Weapon Damage
Magicka Infused = 361 Spell Damage
Magicka Sorc Infused = 389 Spell Damage
Stamina Bloodthirsty= 65*2.778= 180 + 262 = 442 Weapon Damage
Stamina Sorc Bloodthirsty = 65*2.778= 180 + 273 = 453 Weapon Damage
Magicka Bloodthirsty = 65*2.778= 180 + 226 = 406 Spell Damage
Magicka Sorc Bloodthirsty = 65*2.778= 180 + 243 = 423 Spell Damage
So, because of how things scale...overall Bloodthristy is stronger on Magicka and weaker on Stamina.
It really doesn't overtake Infused until below 30% Health in sheer power, making it still only function around the same threshold the 10% Kicked in before....HOWEVER it IS MUCH MUCH WEAKER, MUCH WEAKER than before.
You are left with the conundrum as before...is it better to do more damage for 70-75% of a fight vs 25-30% (Though this is also where actual executes are functioning and thus you are adding more damage (Unless you do not use an execute).
The Sorc has to deal with Amplitude Passive which makes them weaker every 10% of health by 1% damage output meaning a Sorc Mag/Stam DPS is in a downward trend from beginning to the end of the fight. One Bloodthirsty trait is a good way to counterbalance this.
Overall Infused is better and stronger especially on Stamina. Bloodthirsty needs a bit of a buff and is nerfed too extreme.
Edited by Soundinfinite on July 16, 2020 5:19AM18 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's worth noting that the new Bloodthirsty also doesn't buff set damage, alchemical poisons, and weapon enchantments like the current one does. Which I think would impact Stamina more than Magicka because of Relequen's.
Why not just a flat weapon & spell damage bonus to targets under 25% health? I know it's a bit boring, but it's more similar to how the set works on live, where it's a popular trait choicePC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner3 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I did few 21mil dummy parses to test the bloodthirsty changes. Bloodthirsty is still little better than infused. On 21 mil I got about 3-4k more dps. After 90% the dps increase was gradual until dummy was dead. So it's still best in vet trials and dummy parsing.
Infused gave better initial dps but remained constant. After 50% hp or so bloodthirsty went past infused. So in dungeons and arenas where there's trash and bosses have lower hp infused wins.
Also pts was laggy af for some reason, skills not fireing etc. Only managed to do few parses then rage quit.2 -
Wolf81✭✭✭Things are going vary encounter to encounter...context of which class build..which classes with executes vs without..the differences are not huge though between them.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Sy4elgxokQUAnKUQaVOq9h6xBlsWSGgV5Hb9NfwHV18/edit#gid=00 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And they come up with this during a patch where they claim to be changing things to "be more performant on the server/client".Edited by katorga on July 16, 2020 11:06PM8 -
Soundinfinite✭✭✭✭Tested Bloodthristy ONLY against dummy...No weapon, No CP, No Spell Damage, No Passvies for any damage modifiers, No Penetration and the Base of only 10% crit which you can't remove. The entire build was made of magicka regin for sustain....almost 5k of it..hahaha...
3 Parses Performed of Each of the following...average of these parses given.
Parsing with no Major Sorcery Buff
Average of 13:35 Seconds on 3 Mil Dummy with a DPS on average of 3700
Parsing with Major Sorcery Buff
Average of 13:05 Seconds on 3 Mil Dummy with a DPS on average of 3850
Bloodthirsty does pick up the Major/Minor Buff System even though it is a de-buff on target and not part of your resource pool.
This makes the above chart incorrect as Bloodthirsty would move above Infused at much higher %.
Example:
100% Health
Stamina Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.51= 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 0*2.778=0 +174*1.51= 262 Weapon Damage
75% Health
Stamina Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.51= 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 15*2.778= 41 + 174 = 215*1.51 = 324 Weapon Damage
50% Health
Stamina Infused = 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 40*2.778= 111 + 174 = 285*1.51 = 430 Weapon Damage
25% Health
Stamina Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.51= 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Bloodthirsty= 65*2.778= 180 + 174 = 534 Weapon Damage
As such 53%-52% is the cutoff for where Bloodthirsty=Infused
Below this Bloodthirsty wins, above Infused Wins
Best DPS will depend on Class and Trial in play, but will be likely a mix of the 2 traits together.
Personally, I have found for a MagSorc 1+Bloodthirsty and 2+Infused giving me my best numbers and keep
me above 80k on my Magsorc. 3 Bloodthirsty is giving me lower numbers...But I will continue testing.Edited by Soundinfinite on July 17, 2020 6:10AM3 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, every source of Spell/Weapon damage gets Sorcery/Brutality. It doesn’t matter if it’s considered a buff or debuff, they all work. This includes sets that don’t show up on your character sheet like Spell Strat, or all the ones that affect certain skill lines or damage types. It’s hidden, but it is there.2 -
LuxLunae✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Yeah, every source of Spell/Weapon damage gets Sorcery/Brutality. It doesn’t matter if it’s considered a buff or debuff, they all work. This includes sets that don’t show up on your character sheet like Spell Strat, or all the ones that affect certain skill lines or damage types. It’s hidden, but it is there.
Not true actually, flawless dawnbreaker 300 weapon damage is not affected last time i checked.
Hopefully someone at ZoS can make that a bit clear so we don't have to guess.Edited by LuxLunae on July 17, 2020 9:41AM0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Soundinfinite wrote: »Tested Bloodthristy ONLY against dummy...No weapon, No CP, No Spell Damage, No Passvies for any damage modifiers, No Penetration and the Base of only 10% crit which you can't remove. The entire build was made of magicka regin for sustain....almost 5k of it..hahaha...
3 Parses Performed of Each of the following...average of these parses given.
Parsing with no Major Sorcery Buff
Average of 13:35 Seconds on 3 Mil Dummy with a DPS on average of 3700
Parsing with Major Sorcery Buff
Average of 13:05 Seconds on 3 Mil Dummy with a DPS on average of 3850
Bloodthirsty does pick up the Major/Minor Buff System even though it is a de-buff on target and not part of your resource pool.
This makes the above chart incorrect as Bloodthirsty would move above Infused at much higher %.
Example:
100% Health
Stamina Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.51= 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 0*2.778=0 +174*1.51= 262 Weapon Damage
75% Health
Stamina Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.51= 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 15*2.778= 41 + 174 = 215*1.51 = 324 Weapon Damage
50% Health
Stamina Infused = 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Bloodthristy= 40*2.778= 111 + 174 = 285*1.51 = 430 Weapon Damage
25% Health
Stamina Infused= 174*1.6=278*1.51= 420 Weapon Damage
Stamina Bloodthirsty= 65*2.778= 180 + 174 = 534 Weapon Damage
As such 53%-52% is the cutoff for where Bloodthirsty=Infused
Below this Bloodthirsty wins, above Infused Wins
Best DPS will depend on Class and Trial in play, but will be likely a mix of the 2 traits together.
Personally, I have found for a MagSorc 1+Bloodthirsty and 2+Infused giving me my best numbers and keep
me above 80k on my Magsorc. 3 Bloodthirsty is giving me lower numbers...But I will continue testing.
Was that with tormentor? I can see infused working really well in that case with the reverse execute doing best with maximum stats available early in the fight.0 -
WereElf✭✭✭I did some calculations on an excel sheet and if it takes you 300 hits to kill an enemy, the total damage bonus you will get from bloodthirsty will be equal to 33875, while it will be 31320 from Infused. But that is indeed without the Major brutality, which increases the Infused glyph's damage to 37584.
Do keep in mind, that I did not make my calculations based on the damage dealt, and I always did my calculations for 300 hits, even if the different glyphs would've played out differently in the game, and would've caused the enemy to die from more or less hits than that.0