Option to exclude DLC dungeons from the random queue for plus members.

redspecter23 · July 2020

DigitalHype wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

ZOS currently, right now, on live, gives us a way to opt out of DLC dungeons. Removing your subscription. This option is already available and still gives full rewards for everyone in the group. All that is being asked is that plus members receive the same option while still giving ZOS money. It makes sense.

We don't even have that "option" if we own the DLC outright via purchase vs ESO+.

Exactly. Give everyone the option to opt out of DLC. The alternative is contacting support to have them remove DLC you have purchased and giving you a refund? Madness I say.

For those saying opt out, but lower rewards must happen, then all these players with no sub should also be receiving lower rewards, right? What about if they own half the DLC? Some sliding scale? Maybe 75,000xp instead of 100k? Even in that situation, why even play the DLC dungeons when they come up if you only want the xp? Just queue, if it's easy, run it. If it's hard, log onto another toon and try again. Your 15 minute penalty will get eaten up while you're on an alt. Then you have to change the penalty to be account wide instead of character based to seal up that loophole.

Basically, there is always a way to beat the system. You have to try to account for all edge cases when you design a system even if it's something you personally wouldn't do. Someone will do it and break the system. That's what we have now. A broken system. Those with less access are getting an easier ride. From a monetary point of view, I'm surprised ZOS thinks this is a good idea to promote even a few people dropping subs.

SirLeeMinion · July 2020

CombatPrayer wrote: »

That has yet to work for me. I was put into one I left out when I tested it. Twice.

Interestingly, this morning I pulled a dungeon that I had not checked on my specific dungeons list. I assumed it was user error, but I do wonder...

Anyhow, I'm one of the many who do not sub because I don't enjoy PUGing random DLC content. I do enjoy random groups and typically check five or more specific dungeons to run. That said, banging my head against harder content with fake tanks, or fake DPS is really unenjoyable. Fake heals hasn't been as much of an issue, but as heal plus damage skills continue to get nerfed, maybe it will become more noticeable.

AlnilamE · July 2020

Of course, ZOS already added Imperial City to the base game, which includes WGT and ICP. It's only a matter of time before they add the Shadows of the Hist and Horn of the Reach dungeons and so on when people first purchase the game.

CombatPrayer · July 2020

I don't see them adding those because they can still get the money for them. Imperial City was kind of a must. Had it just been the two dungeons I doubt it would be part of it.

Nestor · July 2020

CombatPrayer wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

This while thread comes down to "Make the game easier for me by making it harder for Everyone else"

Leap without logic. How does some of us not wanting to queue for DLC dungeons as part of randoms make it harder for anyone else? That right now is the majority of the game since plus is not the norm among players. It's already happening for non plus members. Doesn't make the game harder for those. And newsflash: People quit those dungeons all the time. I've been in those groups and watched people leave. Another reason why I don't desire to do them. Have to wait for people to show who want to be there.

The argument against giving Plus members the option to not queue for DLC is fundamentally flawed because we can choose to not have it by not paying for it. The majority of ESO players do not have plus. They aren't causing any issues by not subbing and not getting in DLC randoms. Why should those who pay be forced into them? Any argument against the option to not have to be forced into them is fundamentally flawed.

Then queue only for the dungeons you want. Your problem is solved. You can run base game dungeons all day long with the non subbers.

No flaw in that argument.

scorpius2k1 · July 2020

CombatPrayer wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

I can 100% bet those claiming to change their entire sub model based on queing for dungoens wouldn't resub.

So your telling me that you play fine w/o a sub, but your willing to pay to get content that you won't run anyway because you have the option to not run it?

You underestimate the lure of the craft bag. Or the monthly crowns. Seriously though, the craft bag had me at hello.

Inventory, by design, to be problematic and annoying just like many other "features" in ESO (cough, cough, looking at you skill lines and skyshards). Why not just make the game free to play up to level 50, and sub required after that. Do away with all the paywall handicapping all together. If anyone plays this game for a length of time and enjoys it, why wouldn't that be a better idea? I would gamble a large part of why ESO hasn't gotten much better over the years it's because the team is so focused on where to "appropriately" put yet another microtran$action in. It's not 2014 ESO anymore, except all of the issues and bugs.......anyway I'm way off topic. Isn't there an addon somewhere to maybe check only non-dlc, dlc, or both? Surely it wouldn't be that hard to make. Sorry console users

Zenimax : Create the "problem", sell the "solution"

Zenimax : (MoAr mIcRoTrAnSaCtIoNz)
Zenimax : We have introduced an exciting new Crown Store/ESO Plus Feature!!
Playerbase : This is amazing and so useful!! Shut up and take our money!

Playerbase :

redspecter23 · July 2020

Nestor wrote: »

CombatPrayer wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

This while thread comes down to "Make the game easier for me by making it harder for Everyone else"

Leap without logic. How does some of us not wanting to queue for DLC dungeons as part of randoms make it harder for anyone else? That right now is the majority of the game since plus is not the norm among players. It's already happening for non plus members. Doesn't make the game harder for those. And newsflash: People quit those dungeons all the time. I've been in those groups and watched people leave. Another reason why I don't desire to do them. Have to wait for people to show who want to be there.

The argument against giving Plus members the option to not queue for DLC is fundamentally flawed because we can choose to not have it by not paying for it. The majority of ESO players do not have plus. They aren't causing any issues by not subbing and not getting in DLC randoms. Why should those who pay be forced into them? Any argument against the option to not have to be forced into them is fundamentally flawed.

Then queue only for the dungeons you want. Your problem is solved. You can run base game dungeons all day long with the non subbers.

No flaw in that argument.

So by your logic, non plus members should not get any xp bonus for queueing for random? They currently have the advantage of non having DLC in their potential pool so they shouldn't get any reward, correct? XP bonus should only be added once DLC are in the potential pool according to your logic. Just trying to understand your point of view.

DigitalHype · July 2020

Nestor wrote: »

Then queue only for the dungeons you want. Your problem is solved. You can run base game dungeons all day long with the non subbers.

No flaw in that argument.

The OP is specifically refering to the "random dungeon" daily (technicaly a 20hr cooldown), which gives an undaunted supplies reward container and additional XP. You don't receive this from reward from selecting your dungeons.

ESO+ and/or DLC owners DO NOT have the option to limit our random queue to only the easier dungeons for the random daily. We would like that same option for random dungeon reward.

DaveMoeDee · July 2020

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lower the rewards to blue if you exclude DLC and we can talk.

That won't fix the problem of actually queuing for DLC dungeons and being matched with people doing daily random who drop as soon as they see the dungeon. They can just drop and requeue 15 minutes later until they get something they want. Or they can try for 15 minutes and then leave to requeue if they find it hard. Those who actually queued end up in a bind where they wasted time and might not ever be able to fill a group due to replacements also being people who didn't want to be there.

And, following your logic, we should lower the rewards for people without access to DLC dungeons since it is easier for them to do random dungeons.

Let people get their XP. Doesn't really matter. No harm. What matters is getting stuck with people who don't want to be in the dungeon you explicitly queued for.

DigitalHype · July 2020

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to be able to opt out of Random DLC dungeons, then you don't get the 100k in exp, the Geodes etc at the end. You just run the Dungeon.

All the non-ESO+ and non-DLC owners should not get the rewards then? That is what you are saying, correct? Because they are opting out by not owning the content.They don't currently suffer any penalty for an easier list of dungeons in the random pool. The paying customers do.

DigitalHype · July 2020

There are two events happening every day in your neighborhood, each with the same $1,000 USD reward for completing it.

There are 10 different obstacle courses. 5 of them are marked easy difficulty and you are likely to complete this quicker and less likely to fail on any attempt. The other 5 courses are marked harder difficulty and are expected to take longer to complete and potentialy you might fail on your first attempt and have to do it again.

At the sign-in table for the event there are two clipboards. You write your name on the clipboard for which event you would like to enter. The $1000 reward is the same for both events.

Event A: Your obstacle course will be chosen randomly from the 5 easy courses only.

Event B: Your obstacle course will be chosen randomly from all 10 courses.

It is free to enter Event A. It cost $10 to enter event B. Which event do you enter?

Do you see the problem with the current design and the penalty for paying customers now? We don't get Event A option.

tomofhyrule · July 2020

I think this is the standard problem of ZOS meaning the reward for one thing but the playerbase seeing it as something else.

It's really easy to look at it as "I get 100k EXP and the Undaunted rewards for running a dungeon." But that's not what it's meant to be - it's meant to be "I get 100k EXP and the Undaunted rewards for filling someone's group." That's why the rewards aren't available for selecting specific dungeons.

Realistically, if we did get the same rewards for being able to choose which dungeons we wanted/didn't want, then everyone would just do FGI. Even if we went with the premise of this thread, I'm sure most people would opt out of DLC dungeons for their daily randoms since they're harder and more mechanically intense. That now leads to the problem where if someone is picking a specific DLC dungeon, like if they needed to farm Balorgh's helm or something and it's not the pledge, there would then be way fewer people to fill those slots.

...and you thought the queue times were long before...

I do think that getting put into a DLC dungeon should give more rewards in every case. I don't think that running vFGI hm (and skipping half of the bosses) should be worth more keys or XP or rewards than something like nMHK, but that's how it's set up. I'd think that should be a change.

Taleof2Cities · July 2020

DigitalHype wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to be able to opt out of Random DLC dungeons, then you don't get the 100k in exp, the Geodes etc at the end. You just run the Dungeon.

All the non-ESO+ and non-DLC owners should not get the rewards then? That is what you are saying, correct? Because they are opting out by not owning the content.They don't currently suffer any penalty for an easier list of dungeons in the random pool. The paying customers do.

*** shrugs ***

When you queue for a random dungeon daily the key word is RANDOM ... a random selection from all possibilities.

It's not a selection from only the dungeons you get to pick and choose from, @DigitalHype, regardless of whether you're a subscriber or not.

As explained above, the random queue exists to fill groups. It does not exist to split the queue and make it longer for everyone involved (both on the DLC and non-DLC side). That's why a reward exists. As a subscriber, I understand this. Maybe other subscribers have no clue ... but at least it's being mentioned in the thread multiple times.

Bottom Line: Queuing for random (or choosing specific dungeons instead) is totally a player's choice. But not getting the XP and dungeon reward for that choice isn't anyone else's problem ... especially not ZOS's.

DigitalHype · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

*** shrugs ***

When you queue for a random dungeon daily the key word is RANDOM ... a random selection from all possibilities.

It's not a selection from only the dungeons you get to pick and choose from, @DigitalHype, regardless of whether you're a subscriber or not.

As explained above, the random queue exists to fill groups. It does not exist to split the queue and make it longer for everyone involved (both on the DLC and non-DLC side).

Bottom Line: Queuing for random (or choosing specific dungeons instead) is totally a player's choice. But not getting the XP and dungeon reward for that choice isn't anyone else's problem ... especially not ZOS's.

I'm aware of the radom queue and how it works. You seem to be missing the OP's and my point. Non-DLC and non-ESO+ users get the same rewards, however they do not have the same difficulty/time sink on average. The random pools are not equal. One has a penalty due to average dungeon difficulty being higher. Either give us DLC owners the same option as non-DLC owners or increase the rewards for people who's random pool of dungeons includes harder more time consuming dungeons in it.

CombatPrayer · July 2020

When a huge portion of the player base is eliminate from doing half the dungeons, that would also technically increase the odds of plus players ending up in the DLC. Less players to draw from so those who have plus would be more likely to get a random DLC when someone else wants to queue for it specifically. Odds of getting the daily undaunted DLC actually are higher for us because we are the subset that can do them. This explains why I was also seeming to far too often end up in the daily DLC. I was a match due to having Plus which others were not.

AlnilamE · July 2020

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lower the rewards to blue if you exclude DLC and we can talk.

That won't fix the problem of actually queuing for DLC dungeons and being matched with people doing daily random who drop as soon as they see the dungeon. They can just drop and requeue 15 minutes later until they get something they want. Or they can try for 15 minutes and then leave to requeue if they find it hard. Those who actually queued end up in a bind where they wasted time and might not ever be able to fill a group due to replacements also being people who didn't want to be there.

And, following your logic, we should lower the rewards for people without access to DLC dungeons since it is easier for them to do random dungeons.

Let people get their XP. Doesn't really matter. No harm. What matters is getting stuck with people who don't want to be in the dungeon you explicitly queued for.

Well, if the people who don't want to queue for DLC dungeons can opt out of them (for lesser rewards), then the chances of the people staying in the group for a DLC dungeon would increase, would they not? Even if you had to wait longer for the group because of a smaller pool.

If you want to lower rewards for people without DLC, I'm not going to stop you.

But I find it funny that if I'm queueing on my tanks and healers for a random, I go for whatever dungeon I get, and help the group through to the best of my ability, but if I need to get a skill point/achievement on my main, who is a DPS, I'm not worthy because she's only missing the DLC dungeons.

josiahva · July 2020

I support this...as long as I can exclude non-DLC dungeons from my random queue. I do not enjoy the vanilla dungeons at all.