Option to exclude DLC dungeons from the random queue for plus members.

CombatPrayer

There needs to be an option to exclude DLC dungeons from the random queue for plus members.

There are currently 24 based game dungeons with 16 base game, eight of them being the more challenging original vet mode dungeons, and 16 DLC dungeons. With the next DLC dungeon release there will be more DLC dungeons than base game dungeons. That means that you have over a 50% chance of landing in DLC dungeons on a level 45 or higher character if you have Plus.

With the current dungeon queue system, anyone can queue as a tank or healer. It's actually not common to find a true tank these days in my experience. I have seen true tanks in dungeons about a quarter of the time (that's being wildly generous). Healers are a bit more common. The mechanics of DLC dungeons generally require a true tank. Even on normal DLC dungeons, unless you enjoy running around like an idiot trying to avoid the boss. If you don't have a true healer, this is a particularly insane experience. If you don't have Plus, you don't get the 'privilege' of this insanity. With Plus, you're paying for it.

Much as I love my craft bag and extra crowns, having to deal with DLC dungeons that will take two, three, or god help us, four times as long as base game normal ones is not worth it to me. And to others based on many threads I have read. Please give us a way to opt out of these headaches. I'm pretty sure people abandoning these dungeons was one of the reasons you slapped a fifteen minute timer on us. Of course, if you want to run a dungeon and are on a somewhat limited schedule, you can either sweat it out with fake healers and fake tanks or take the timer. Usually the timer is shorter. But it's still nuts that one would have to leave because others queued as tanks or healers because it meant no wait as a DPS.

zvavi

I agree. There should be an option to exclude non dlc dungeons from random queue. Getting those boring non dlc ones is just... Putting to sleep.

Magdalina

I'm of the opposite opinion - up the rewards so it's more worth it and encourage people to do DLC dungeons more. Yes, the chances of getting a DLC dungeon are getting higher. But if anything, that should encourage people to queue proper roles. Of course not everyone does or will do that but I will say that ~3 years ago when I stopped playing for a while, my vet dlc completion rate with a pug was like...10%, now, having come back just a few months ago, it's noticeably, significantly higher, impressively hovering around maybe 30-40%. Now I'm seeing people actually NOT drop a vet dlc the second they get it, I see competent players doing them and I have met quite a few very capable people that way. Of course, success rate is far from 100% with a pug but that's a given - there will always be some newbies, some jerks and some who just forgot to switch to normal.

I think it's awesome, but you're right about one thing - dlc dungeons, especially on vet, do take significantly longer than non-dlc ones usually so as the chances of getting them are going up, so should the reward. XP seems plentiful enough, but good old Willpower/Agility/Endurance are barely worth anything anymore, perhaps it's time for something more interesting.

AlnilamE

Lower the rewards to blue if you exclude DLC and we can talk.

Prof_Bawbag

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lower the rewards to blue if you exclude DLC and we can talk.

Think you're missing his point. I let my sub expire and no plans to renew because it automatically turns off the dlc dungeons. Whether you like them or not is neither here nor there. There are a number of people out there that feel they're being penalised by subbing. Those who don't sub and don't bother buying the dungeons (like myself) get the quick dailies that don't really require tanks. By subbing you open yourself up to an extra layer of grief. If folk enjoy dlc dungeons, then they too have an option. Keep the option turned on. choices are good.

Your method also means you need to sub or buy dlc to get purple gear. After all, that also removes the chance of being put into a dlc dungeon. It's crazy.

Agenericname

You can opt out now. Specific dungeon>check all that you're willing to do.

The random queue helps to backfill. If you are unwilling to do that, that's perfectly fine, but the reward should not remain, and you can do that now.

I already utilize that method as I only really PUG the vet DLCs and thus forfeit any random dungeon rewards.

Myyth

If they did this then I would pay for a subscription again.

Until then....No sub for you ZoS!

After endless failed runs of mazzatun and cradle of shadows I finally had enough and cancelled 4 years ago. It has been glorious ever since! No more DLC dungeons when I queue for a random!!!
My game play experience has been so much more enjoyable. No more wasting hours of my life on failed DLC dungeon runs.

The only way I would sub again would be if I could remove DLC dungeons.

But as a compromise I would also accept the ability to select and block 4 dungeons that I never want to randomly get.
Maybe 6 but no less than 4. I have heard that the latest DLC are just as awful if not more than shadows of hist.

DigitalHype

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lower the rewards to blue if you exclude DLC and we can talk.

Seems fair. Lets talk.

Nestor

If you want to be able to opt out of Random DLC dungeons, then you don't get the 100k in exp, the Geodes etc at the end. You just run the Dungeon.

kargen27

The random queue is there in part to help players fill a group when looking for a specific dungeon. If players can opt out of the DLCs and still get the random bonus it hurts the players looking to do a DLC dungeon. Things need to be fair between subscribers and non subscribers but opting out of the DLCs isn't the answer.
Maybe double rewards in all group dungeons for subscribers.

Myyth

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lower the rewards to blue if you exclude DLC and we can talk.

I counter your proposal.

Increase the rewards if you select DLC dungeons to encourage players to do them.
Like extra XP or a larger gear/crafting reward for DLC.

And leave the reward as it is for non DLC.

redspecter23

You should never be penalized for subbing.

Not much else to say other than I agree with this idea for the reason I listed above.

CombatPrayer

Agenericname wrote: »

You can opt out now. Specific dungeon>check all that you're willing to do.

The random queue helps to backfill. If you are unwilling to do that, that's perfectly fine, but the reward should not remain, and you can do that now.

I already utilize that method as I only really PUG the vet DLCs and thus forfeit any random dungeon rewards.

That has yet to work for me. I was put into one I left out when I tested it. Twice.

Myyth wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lower the rewards to blue if you exclude DLC and we can talk.

I counter your proposal.

Increase the rewards if you select DLC dungeons to encourage players to do them.
Like extra XP or a larger gear/crafting reward for DLC.

And leave the reward as it is for non DLC.

Why not both? Give people an option to not have DLC in the random queue, but if they do, their rewards will be nicer? Maybe People might also then choose to queue for DLC randoms rather than avoid.

CombatPrayer

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to be able to opt out of Random DLC dungeons, then you don't get the 100k in exp, the Geodes etc at the end. You just run the Dungeon.

Nope. Just unsub and don't get screwed. End of story.

Aisleyne

The random dungeon rewards are absolutely there to help fill groups for the people queued to specific dungeons. But I suppose the truth is that there are some people who are ill equipped to handle some DLC dungeons. This hurts the people trying to complete it as well because they may have higher failure rates or have to deal with people leaving once they see where they've ended up.

The only solution I can think of that could possibly improve the situation from both perspectives is to create two random dailies: one for base dungeons and one for DLC dungeons. This will remove the people who drop from dungeons as soon as they see it's DLC and allow newer or poorly equipped characters to help fill base dungeons without risking something they're unprepared for. They would just have to make the rewards for the DLC daily good enough that people with the ability to help will find them worth their time.

Myyth

Aisleyne wrote: »

The only solution I can think of that could possibly improve the situation from both perspectives is to create two random dailies: one for base dungeons and one for DLC dungeons.

I would also approve of this option. I would sub again if they did this. Do you hear that ZoS? *waves magic credit card*

AlnilamE

redspecter23 wrote: »

You should never be penalized for subbing.

Not much else to say other than I agree with this idea for the reason I listed above.

The penalty is in your mind though.

Myyth wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lower the rewards to blue if you exclude DLC and we can talk.

I counter your proposal.

Increase the rewards if you select DLC dungeons to encourage players to do them.
Like extra XP or a larger gear/crafting reward for DLC.

And leave the reward as it is for non DLC.

I find that the rewards are just right for signing up for any dungeon and if you want to be limited to the likes of Fungal Grotto I, you should be happy with the blue rewards.

When you are queueing up for a random dungeon, you are saying "I am a mercenary willing to help someone else achieve their goal". That goal might be complete the quest in a DLC dungeon. Or it may be try to get the mount lead in Volenfell. You don't know that ahead of time. But both players who queued for specific dungeons deserve the chance to get their groups filled in a reasonable amount of time.

ayu_fever

have a base game only dungeon random playlist (open to all players)
have a dlc only dungeon random playlist (open to subbers and to players who own a dlc dungoen pack)

quite the simple fix really.

redspecter23

AlnilamE wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

You should never be penalized for subbing.

Not much else to say other than I agree with this idea for the reason I listed above.

The penalty is in your mind though.

A penalty in my mind is still a penalty.

Myyth

AlnilamE wrote: »

I find that the rewards are just right for signing up for any dungeon and if you want to be limited to the likes of Fungal Grotto I, you should be happy with the blue rewards.

I disagree because the daily dungeon quest rewards were set up back when then there was just the basic dungeons. Then they started to release DLC dungeons and stuck them in with the same random dungeons. But the quest rewards stayed the same even though the difficulty increased. And even as the difficulty continued to increase with each new DLC added the quest rewards remain unchanged.
Therefore, It would only make sense to increase the rewards for DLC's and leave the regular dungeons as they are.

Tsar_Gekkou

As a healer main, I stopped doing random dailies on vet years ago when I realized the average dps is like 5K. But people really shouldn't be punished for paying a monthly tithe while those who don't can avoid getting shafted by the light attack spammers who wind up in vet Moon Hunter Keep.

FrancisCrawford

Random dungeons in their current incarnation are a lousy design. There is no group for whom FG1 and a harder DLC dungeon would both be fun. Not on normal, not on vet. Either the harder DLC is too hard or FG1 is too easy.

The simplest fix I can think of is to go to three modes rather than two:

• Normal base-game
• Vet base-game OR normal DLC
• Vet DLC

That wouldn't solve the problems by any means, but it would at least reduce them.

adilazimdegilx

I fully support that because,
I usually do daily random normals with my Tank and Healer (Real ones) for fast queueing and easy runs. So in everything nonDLC, if group is not that good or very low level I can just carry by changing one or two skills and dungeon still goes very fast, everyone is happy. (And NO, I dont rush and skip everthing, cause ppl to fail their quests. I do like group activities even if they are easy and repeated. Because random ppl usually adds fun in some way either on chat or in gameplay.)

Not having ESO Plus is an advantage for daily random dungeon in that sense. Worst you can get is ICP or WGT which both are easier than every other DLC normals. Yes, I can still carry most of them but it takes too long and it isnt worth random dungeon rewards so it discourages me to do daily random. Since I reactivated my ESO+ I'm doing less and less random normals. The thing is I dont really need random dungeons, I usually just run them for fast and fun group actions. If there was an option to not include DLC dungeons, I'd do them everyday again.

Athyrium93

I love that idea, I hate doing a random as a dps because I know my dps isn't good enough for most DLC dungeons and doing random vets on my healer was way more fun before I hit cp300 and now get dlc vets... I actively avoid them now.

idk

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to be able to opt out of Random DLC dungeons, then you don't get the 100k in exp, the Geodes etc at the end. You just run the Dungeon.

Pretty much this. Zos setup the random dungeon perk for a reason and it was not to give us 100k but to encourage players to use the GF so that other players queuing up can more easily get a group which includes if they want to queue for a specific DLC dungeon.

Ofc, if Zos ever does make it so players can opt-out of the DLC dungeons then the rewards will likely (and should be) less than players that have access to DLC dungeons and choose to include all dungeons. It makes sense.

CombatPrayer

idk wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to be able to opt out of Random DLC dungeons, then you don't get the 100k in exp, the Geodes etc at the end. You just run the Dungeon.

Pretty much this. Zos setup the random dungeon perk for a reason and it was not to give us 100k but to encourage players to use the GF so that other players queuing up can more easily get a group which includes if they want to queue for a specific DLC dungeon.

So then by this reason, again, not belonging to Plus means you have an easier random bonus.

idk

CombatPrayer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to be able to opt out of Random DLC dungeons, then you don't get the 100k in exp, the Geodes etc at the end. You just run the Dungeon.

Pretty much this. Zos setup the random dungeon perk for a reason and it was not to give us 100k but to encourage players to use the GF so that other players queuing up can more easily get a group which includes if they want to queue for a specific DLC dungeon.

So then by this reason, again, not belonging to Plus means you have an easier random bonus.

There you have it. your option. Of course, you selectively edited what you quoted.

I have proposed the idea before that those that opt-in get a greater reward scaled to the number of DLC dungeons they have access to. Even though that truly takes care of everyone in a fair manner those that want to be able to opt-out want it easy yet still want the big rewards. Funny how that works.

karekiz

I can 100% bet those claiming to change their entire sub model based on queing for dungoens wouldn't resub.

So your telling me that you play fine w/o a sub, but your willing to pay to get content that you won't run anyway because you have the option to not run it?

Myyth

karekiz wrote: »

I can 100% bet those claiming to change their entire sub model based on queing for dungoens wouldn't resub.

So your telling me that you play fine w/o a sub, but your willing to pay to get content that you won't run anyway because you have the option to not run it?

I can 100% tell you that I would resub if I had the option to either remove DLC dungeons or have two different queues.

I subbed for 2 years until they started to introduce DLC dungeons. After repeated failed miserable DLC dungeon runs I finally had enough and unsubbed. DLC dungeons were the only reason I did.

It would be so awesome to have the craft bag back, increased bank space and a crown stipend each month. But I would much rather deal with the inventory hassle than DLC dungeons. Nothing is worse than doing DLC dungeons with a random group.

Silver_Strider

It's been several years and ZOS still hasn't done anything about this.
Y'all are beating a dead horse that has decayed so much even a necromancer couldn't rez it.

CombatPrayer

karekiz wrote: »

I can 100% bet those claiming to change their entire sub model based on queing for dungoens wouldn't resub.

So your telling me that you play fine w/o a sub, but your willing to pay to get content that you won't run anyway because you have the option to not run it?

You underestimate the lure of the craft bag. Or the monthly crowns. Seriously though, the craft bag had me at hello.