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Jabs
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West93✭✭✭✭✭blendertoes wrote: »
Yes because I misworded AoE instead of DOT, my bad whatever, point is, that it was buffed by thaumaturge, and real AOE is only second tooltip of jabs yet all of its tooltip is mitigated by major evasion.0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭direct damage / dot
single target / aoe
melee / ranged
to be fair the devs mix and mixed these up a lot too, somewhere in the patch note they also had a mix up, something about no longer being a dot but melee damage or something, but cant find it right now0 -
blendertoes✭✭✭blendertoes wrote: »
Yes because I misworded AoE instead of DOT, my bad whatever, point is, that it was buffed by thaumaturge, and real AOE is only second tooltip of jabs yet all of its tooltip is mitigated by major evasion.
There is a big difference between AoE and DoT, and words matter. Regardless, I still don't think you understand how the skill works. If you look at the tooltip description, it is classified as an area skill with a 6x8 meter area.
"Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear dealing 299 Physical Damage to the closest enemy and 121 Physical Damage to all other enemies."
None of that mentions anything about direct damage, only that the damage is increased for the closest enemy. The. Whole. Skill. Is. AoE.Edited by blendertoes on July 13, 2020 7:59PM0 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭blendertoes wrote: »blendertoes wrote: »
Yes because I misworded AoE instead of DOT, my bad whatever, point is, that it was buffed by thaumaturge, and real AOE is only second tooltip of jabs yet all of its tooltip is mitigated by major evasion.
There is a big difference between AoE and DoT, and words matter. Regardless, I still don't think you understand how the skill works. If you look at the tooltip description, it is classified as an area skill with a 6x8 meter area.
"Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear dealing 299 Physical Damage to the closest enemy and 121 Physical Damage to all other enemies."
None of that mentions anything about direct damage, only that the damage is increased for the closest enemy. The. Whole. Skill. Is. AoE.
My whole point was about CP thaumaturge, so wording DOT or AOE for this case doesn't matter because I specifically was talking about jabs being affected by thaumaturge in the past.
It does less damage by second tooltip, because second tooltip is a cleave damage (aoe), if you hit only one enemy (fighting 1v1 duel) it will be affected by first tooltip only, in my opinion this part of tooltip should be considered single target direct damage by the logic of how the skill applies in this situation and it should not be affected by major evasion, make jabs dodgeable to make up for it if needed, but this part of statement is only my opinion.Edited by West93 on July 13, 2020 8:19PM0 -
igniz93✭✭✭I've tried the slower jabs in the PTS servers, and weaving feels absolutely terrible. It's slow. It's clunky. I mean... Is this a joke?0
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Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭Templars (stamina) has worst healing out of stamina classes? How is that supposed to even be? Now they even nerf ritual healing rofl.
Backlash releases only 20% of it's damage, in pvp that's almost impossible, opponent needs to have no defensive buff up, be fully debuffed and stand still for 6seconds not holding block.
20% was fine when it copied everyones damage not just templars, right now it's trash compared to other delayed bursts.
Jabs are direct damage ability, yet major evasion 25% mitigates it? Make major evasion mitigate crystal frag, overload, dizzy swing then, fair for everyone.
So where is stamina templars healing and where is universal passives for both magicka and stamina templars?
Empowered sweep is trash, even dawnbreaker is better just for 3% damage increase, now it has a cast time?
I see 20 times more solo sorcs in cyrodiil compared to solo magplars and stamplars (healer don't count) now they nerf burning light? Due to the server lag, high mobility speed of wild hunt ring and snow treaders snare immunity it's almost impossible to land all 4 jabs, if you make such change buff burning light damage 40%.
Agree good luck landing all 4 ticks with jabs/sweeps with the current lag and faster mobility. I'm calling you out ESO. You don't know *** about your game!3 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the tick frequency of this ability and its morphs to 333ms, down from 300ms, to better sync its damage with its animation"
On live, the channel time is 1 sec, consistent with the GCD. Is the channel longer than 1 sec on PTS? Please tell me it's not. The longer total cast time means a smaller optimal weave window, but as long as the total time is </= a GCD, it won't feel too terrible.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”1 -
igniz93✭✭✭On live, the channel time is less than 1 second (almost 0.9). The animation lasts for longer than 1 second. HOWEVER, the tooltip mentions 1s.
Now, the channel time lasts for a whole second (reflecting the tooltip), and makes weaving slower and clunkier, resulting in a dps loss. We'll have to relearn the weave timing, but also lose dps...0 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭All 4 jabs hit almost exactly over the course of 1 second
It feels fine to cast, 95% of people are not going to notice the 33ms longer gap. If anything you messing up your light attack timing will cause more of a loss in damage.
Magplar gained the heal from jabs which is a big step.... Making sources that scale off of # players opens alot of doors for solo pvp, or easier farming I suppose.0 -
igniz93✭✭✭They hit for 0.9 seconds. You are losing 100ms, which makes weaving clunky and slow, which means less jabs during a fight = less dps. 100ms IS noticeable (just tried it in the PTS servers).0
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MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭They hit for 0.9 seconds. You are losing 100ms, which makes weaving clunky and slow, which means less jabs during a fight = less dps. 100ms IS noticeable (just tried it in the PTS servers).
The 100ms on Live is essentially a light attack weave window, and a comfortable one at that. With the cast lasting a full 1 sec now, the light attack weave window is closed and you have to have perfect timing to keep similar DPS.
If they want to match the animation more, why not go from a 300ms tick to a 330ms tick? Leave that light attack window open just a tad.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Eleguak✭✭I know everyone is arguing, and thats fun, keep it up or whatever.
I just wanna mention Jabs is in a really weird spot as a skill in general. And it comes down to what is a DoT, and whats DD in game. Jabs is direct damage as others have stated, and it used to double dip in cp, but oddly last time I checked it's still buffed by the Deadly set for it's stam morph, which is meant to buff DoTs.
Then we get issues with DoTs in general in ESO, or well, the fact that a LOT of skills that you'd think should be them, aren't them, like wall of elements or volley, which are all direct damage as opposed to dots last I checked, they're just... direct damage over time...? I'm like 90% certain they're not buffed by anything relating to DoTs, but its been a minute.
The only way I've been able to notice anything via tooltips about this stuff is, a DoT is usually X damage over Y period.
Where as the direct damage over time is X damage, every Y time lapse, during Z duration.
Basically DoTs are dumb, and I can understand why someone would get confused what jabs is technically classified as since ESO doesn't really have a tooltip on any skills that say X skill is a direct damage or DoT skill.
Then again, maybe they changed this, and caltrops and other odd ducks are a DoT good and proper now... I doubt it, but meh.0 -
igniz93✭✭✭I don't understand, isn't being able to light attack after 0.9s better than after 1s? You can cast more jabs and light attacks over 1 minute, for example. You're basically attacking faster. Am I missing something?0
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MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭I know everyone is arguing, and thats fun, keep it up or whatever.
I just wanna mention Jabs is in a really weird spot as a skill in general. And it comes down to what is a DoT, and whats DD in game. Jabs is direct damage as others have stated, and it used to double dip in cp, but oddly last time I checked it's still buffed by the Deadly set for it's stam morph, which is meant to buff DoTs.
Then we get issues with DoTs in general in ESO, or well, the fact that a LOT of skills that you'd think should be them, aren't them, like wall of elements or volley, which are all direct damage as opposed to dots last I checked, they're just... direct damage over time...? I'm like 90% certain they're not buffed by anything relating to DoTs, but its been a minute.
The only way I've been able to notice anything via tooltips about this stuff is, a DoT is usually X damage over Y period.
Where as the direct damage over time is X damage, every Y time lapse, during Z duration.
Basically DoTs are dumb, and I can understand why someone would get confused what jabs is technically classified as since ESO doesn't really have a tooltip on any skills that say X skill is a direct damage or DoT skill.
Then again, maybe they changed this, and caltrops and other odd ducks are a DoT good and proper now... I doubt it, but meh.
Deadly buffs DOTs and Channels.
Jabs is an AOE Channel, which ticks 4 cones of damage in front of the caster over the course of a second. Not a DOT.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”1 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't understand, isn't being able to light attack after 0.9s better than after 1s? You can cast more jabs and light attacks over 1 minute, for example. You're basically attacking faster. Am I missing something?
There is a 1 sec global cooldown for skills and light attacks. So you can do each once per second.
When the cast for Jabs lasts 0.9 secs, it is easier to execute a light attack and a jabs cast every second. With jabs lasting 1 sec, you need perfect timing to do a light attack and jabs every sec.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”1 -
Eleguak✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »
Deadly buffs DOTs and Channels.
Jabs is an AOE Channel, which ticks 4 cones of damage in front of the caster over the course of a second. Not a DOT.
You know I don't think I've ever noticed that channeled aspect of the deadly set. I rarely see any 'channel skill' love in item sets so I completely overlooked it. And I'm not saying jabs is a DoT, I'm saying ESO sucks at tooltips so some peeps not knowing is understandable.
I mean a majority of games classify DoTs as any ability that hits more than once per cast basically.
Anyways, I guess everyone is missing the point, we should all be happy that deadly now buffs the physical sweep morph. /s0 -
igniz93✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »I don't understand, isn't being able to light attack after 0.9s better than after 1s? You can cast more jabs and light attacks over 1 minute, for example. You're basically attacking faster. Am I missing something?
There is a 1 sec global cooldown for skills and light attacks. So you can do each once per second.
When the cast for Jabs lasts 0.9 secs, it is easier to execute a light attack and a jabs cast every second. With jabs lasting 1 sec, you need perfect timing to do a light attack and jabs every sec.
I understand, thanks for clarifying. Would you say that weaving with jabs is now more difficult, but with the right timing, the dps remains the same?0 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not on PTS (console) so I can't say for certain. But from a practical matter, if it gets harder to keep your light attacks per second up, you are going to see a some dip in dps.Edited by MurderMostFoul on July 14, 2020 3:02AM“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”2 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭It the 4+ years ive been playing templars have always been a mess. Just about all of these changes are headscratchers but i guess par for the course.0 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Burning light nerf
Speed nerf
Did i miss a damage buff?
Why would the most powerful spammable in the game need a damage buff? Isn't doing as much damage as shalks and blastbones with your spammable enough? Wait, sorry, did I say as much damage? I mean ~20% more, because of those burning light procs.
Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Burning light nerf
Speed nerf
Did i miss a damage buff?
Why would the most powerful spammable in the game need a damage buff? Isn't doing as much damage as shalks and blastbones with your spammable enough? Wait, sorry, did I say as much damage? I mean ~20% more, because of those burning light procs.
Neither shalks nor blastbones are spammables.
They can land, while you are doing damage with another attack during the same GCD, you can do that with jabs.
Also both of those skills deal their full damage when they land, jabs can easily miss half its ticks.
The thing with jabs is that it's a really strong skill in pvp against bad players, that don't know how to move, but barely an okay one against good players.
Aganist good players you really need to lock them down to have a chance to land all 4 jabs.
Also burning light nerf makes other aedric skill abilities much worse as well, as you will barely get procs on those now.
I'm all for eliminating the porc chance for more consistent damage, but this is just to much of a nerf.
On top of templars having some of the worst healing in pvp right now.
On a 30k max mag 3k spell damage build in no cp, your getting 4-5 k breath of life heals, eclipse is stupid expensive to keep up ritual healing is outpaced by health revocery.
Than you have stamplar that still don't benefit from the restoring light passive that gives extra healing on lower hp, the general lack of defensive utility and heals.
Something has to give, if they want to reduce Templar damage this much, at least give us some defensive buffs.
The jabs frequency change is also terrible for pve and pvp both, amny magplar already use BFB as a spammable for pve, don't really see this change helping with that.4 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭
Don't forget that Purifying Light and Power of the Light are now critting for like 4k (maximum) in PvP (after PTS nerf) and Blastbones/Shalks deal nearly twice that much and are both AoE!Edited by FlamingBeard on July 14, 2020 8:35AM1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »
Don't forget that Purifying Light and Power of the Light are now critting for like 4k (maximum) in PvP (after PTS nerf) and Blastbones/Shalks deal nearly twice that much and are both AoE!
We can join stamsorcs and go full pepega procsets, thankfully ZOS provided more than enough broken procsets this patch.
Cant wait to use stampede to spread 50k dmg worth of bleed procs in an aoe.
Or use the aoe morph of topping with the new bleed set and spin to win for aoe execute dot.
It's getting to the point where only wardens and necros will be able to use Stat setups and everyone else will rely on procs for their damage.
Maybe that's the grand plan for this update.4