Why Guild Stores and not an actual Auction Market for everyone?

Hestia · April 2014

WELL. They did "say" back then that you were able to open up your store to the public by owning a keep... It seems like they don't keep promises too well.

Anoteros · April 2014

Jake71887 wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

The developers already know that 99% of MMOs function X way or Y way. They also know that they weren't trying to copy all the other MMOs. The sad thing is that some players are so rooted in traditional MMOs that they cannot adapt to something different. It's sad, very sad.

Trying something "Different", doesn't excuse them from bad game design.

Exactly.

ZakyUchiha · April 2014

For the same reason Diablo 3 removed their auction house. The number of players wanting to sell something is too high, so there will be a constant price war, making the prices very low.

shadyjane62 · April 2014

Haven't joined any guilds and not intending to join. So far nothing in this game has encouraged me to trust anything or anybody.

Auction house, you put it up, it sells, it doesn't sell. I can understand that. Why would I want to spend all my time there looking thru 5 guilds worth of crap.

And if no Auction House was meant to keep the gold sellers and buyers under control, it failed. And with no guild bank, no duping.

Any game I've ever played Guild bank was source of major drama and thievery. Things don't seem to have improved.

Anoteros · April 2014

ZakyUchiha wrote: »

For the same reason Diablo 3 removed their auction house. The number of players wanting to sell something is too high, so there will be a constant price war, making the prices very low.

Eh?
The D3 auction house was Blizzard being greedy. Pure and Simple.
It removed the need for players to actually play the game when they could just sit and play mini monopoly or just spend real cash to buy items.
OCD syndrome at it's finest.
---

You do realise that nothing in ESO has value since every man and his dog can craft literally anything with little challenge to gathering mats etc and the fact there's no auction house further emphasises this.

This is a flawed system. It does not encourage 'socializing' or any type of an economy.

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Haven't joined any guilds and not intending to join. So far nothing in this game has encouraged me to trust anything or anybody.

Auction house, you put it up, it sells, it doesn't sell. I can understand that. Why would I want to spend all my time there looking thru 5 guilds worth of crap.

And if no Auction House was meant to keep the gold sellers and buyers under control, it failed. And with no guild bank, no duping.

Any game I've ever played Guild bank was source of major drama and thievery. Things don't seem to have improved.

And exactly this.
Failed game mechanic is failed.

sliyerking · April 2014

Drakonklenok wrote: »

More often than not when i find a guild/clan/fleet, whatever in an MMO i find a sense of community, right now, the best i can get is a sense of mutual benefit. Maybe that was the intent, a single player game where you sometimes interact with other people.

Hmm.. would be nice if it came from a Dev.

MissyJ · April 2014

Well I was rather surprised when I realised how the guild stores are implemented, not to mention not even being able to search for a specific item. When I first read about the feature, I thought that the guild store would be open to the public. Not that I see the point in that as opposed to the usual server wide AH.

I joined ESO to explore the game - quest, craft, do achievements, chat with guildies and so on. I didn't join to spend my time spamming the /zone chat to try selling my leftover iron ores or whatever. I am a casual player and I have yet to spend currency on gear, enchants, glyphs, gems, crafting mats or whatever on AH in any game. I only use the AH to make additional gold for buying inventory/bank slots and eventually a mount (in this game) or buy collectibles (like pets, mounts, droprecipes and such in other games and maybe in time in ESO too). I farm all crafting mats myself and usually I can save up enough gold for whatever I want just selling off leftover mats and the occasional drop item that I have no use for on any of my chars. I don't even lvl crafting to sell stuff - I just lvl it so that I am able to provide my own chars with gear and such....and for fun and completion.

I really miss having an AH, where I can just search for whatever item I wanna sell, quickly get a general idea of the current going rate and post my items and be done. I don't wanna spend time scanning through 5 different guild stores to figure out where the price might be best. And based on my current experience with these trading guilds....ppl mainly join them to sell, not to buy. Hence, who's gonna buy they mats that I wanna sell? There are probably thousands of ppl out there, who wanna pay a reasonable amount of gold for my stack of iron ore or whatever, but I have no way of reaching those players without having to spam the /zone chat. Which again is a total and utter waste of my gaming time. I know some ppl find it interesting to buy from one guild store and resell in another, but I would wager that they are a minority, since that is not the main point with this game. If that's your interest, I am sure you can find a finance game out there to your liking. And even in other games with a server wide AH, I have met many players making a lot of gold doing just that within the server wide AH - buying up cheap stuff and reselling for higher prices.

With that said I would also like to get a devs take on this. I have seen it mentioned several places that the trading guilds should promote player interaction and a social atmosphere.... That is definately not the impression that I have so far. By now I have muted my trading guilds, since the guild leaders and officers in most cases don't care what the atmosphere is like. So bad language and name calling flourish like I have yet to experience in any half-decent social guild, that I have been a member of in my gaminglife. I luckily found a social guild that has opened a guild store too. But with <100 members there is not much use in that store. Several of those players have asked for invites to some of my trading guilds, since they can't seem to find a guild with more than 200-300 players actively recruiting. Okay so you want trading guilds? Atleast make them bigger - like 5k or 10k members. I couldn't care less about the social part in those guilds, so who cares if there are too many members to have a meaningful socially active community. Atm it seems that the majority of trading guild members mute the guild chat anyway. The 500 member limit is perfectly valid for a social pve/pvp guild and hence you could implement the option to choose what kind of guild you wanna create in the first place. And then remove the guild stores from the social guilds. This would make more sense to me and is more like what I had imagined this guild store implementation to be like in the first place.

I don't expect to see an ingame serverwide AH in this game, but I would be completely in favor of it, if it were to happen.

Scott · April 2014

Anoteros wrote: »

Painfully obvious if you're looking for any semblance of MMORPG with the usual economy, community and the like it's best to look elsewhere.

Bingo! If you want the same-old same-old there are countless other MMORPGs you can go play. I would definitely wait until at least the first-free-month timespan is over before instituting any major change to how the marketplace/economy works here. Personally, I view the goldsellers, etc. as an example of pioneer malcontents who will eventually go away. When they realize that 'the economy' as established in other games isn't present in this world they will go away. The problem will solve itself.

I cannot believe that the way the marketplaces were set up in this game was an oversight by the game designers.

Eris · April 2014

Jake71887 wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

The developers already know that 99% of MMOs function X way or Y way. They also know that they weren't trying to copy all the other MMOs. The sad thing is that some players are so rooted in traditional MMOs that they cannot adapt to something different. It's sad, very sad.

Trying something "Different", doesn't excuse them from bad game design.

So other than not having a sort and search function in the guild store, which they will likely get to, what exactly is bad about the design?

SilvyrNixe · April 2014

I've seen plenty of people asking this same question in zone chat. This my response.

There used to be another game that I played for a few years called Shaiya, which in my opinion has gone so far down hill, it's amazing it hasn't hit ocean level yet. Reason being for this, is that they had a server wide AH. This being a PvP based game, the two sides (dark and light) could equally go into the AH without being able to attack each other or even battle 1 on 1. That being said, with so many players all being piled up into one map, there were not only FPS issues, but economy issues. Prices were getting so high that it seems impossible just to get level 10 gear without having to spend money. Within the span of two years, I watch the economy inflate over two times of what it originally was when I first joined. Weapons and armor that used to cost about 1k-5k per peice (You were considered rich in this game if you were in the millions) to those exact same items being in the 500k-800k range. This was only within the span of two years.

One way that it might have ended up like this, is greed. Players could have began to want more and more gold as they continued on through the game, so here is a way that things could end up with ESO if they take the same path that Shaiya did.

As I said before, greed is what inflated the economy so much, so quickly. Players would buy out items that were sold at a decent price, and sell them for more. This then became more of a turf war when it came to selling items instead of just making a profit off of what you've earned.

All of this being said, I do hope that ESO does not have a server wide AH. I like that we either have to join a guild and sell items in a guild store (which, joining 5 guilds at once, I've never seen that in any other MMO I've played) or communicating with people, just to get rid of the items and replace it with gold.

Yes, I do realize that there could be a better way to hopefully have some sort of system where you can have your items sold to more then just a large group, but I do really hope it does not take the AH route because of my experience with Shaiya.

sliyerking · April 2014

Eris wrote: »

sliyerking wrote: »

So, does a Dev. have anything to say on this thread?

No, the developers ignore threads like these.

The developers already know that 99% of MMOs function X way or Y way. They also know that they weren't trying to copy all the other MMOs. The sad thing is that some players are so rooted in traditional MMOs that they cannot adapt to something different. It's sad, very sad.

It's not that it's just traditional, it's that the traditional way makes so much more sense. ESO added blockades to stop us from enjoying a game economically.

sliyerking · April 2014

MissyJ wrote: »

Atleast make them bigger - like 5k or 10k members.

I don't expect to see an ingame serverwide AH in this game, but I would be completely in favor of it, if it were to happen.

You know increasing the numbers of the Guild Store also means you promote the habit of a large group for AH; meaning you promote an open faction AH, and ultimately the server AH for all players to trade and sell from each other.

c1r3gamerb16_ESO · April 2014

I am reluctant to join a guild in ESO because most of them appear to be just for trading purposes and gaining members solely to reach the numbers required to have a guild store etc.

I see no point in being able to join 5 guilds because I only have time to devote my game time to one and would prefer that one to be a sociable community rather than 200 + strangers just using it as a mini AH.

With regard to a normal AH, I have no problems with that however I recall in Ultima Online we could "hire" vendors to stand outside our houses and fill their bags with items priced using tags and anyone passing by opened the bag and clicked an item to buy.

We had to pay the vendor weekly for his employment and could choose to pay him direct or allow him to take his wages from the takings. If the vendor didn't get paid they would dump our stuff and leave our "employ". This made the environment more interesting as you could come across a vendor out in the wilds and some players even created houses to become a market place where their guild members could place their own vendors for the public to visit.

Jeremy · April 2014

To the OP: I have no idea. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Lack of a working economy that allows me to buy the materials I need to utilize my crafts (honing stones, dwarf oils, diamonds etc.) is my biggest frustration with this game currently.

Almost makes me want to cancel my subscription for a few months and wait it out until they came to their senses about this. That way I would not have to suffer my character through such a non-functional economy complete with ineffective guild stores and annoying trade spam while I level.

Jeremy · April 2014

Jake71887 wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

The developers already know that 99% of MMOs function X way or Y way. They also know that they weren't trying to copy all the other MMOs. The sad thing is that some players are so rooted in traditional MMOs that they cannot adapt to something different. It's sad, very sad.

Trying something "Different", doesn't excuse them from bad game design.

Agreed. Just being different in and of itself is not a virtue.

Better to follow suit in a vein that works rather break away from the mold to offer us something that doesn't.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2014

i honestly think its a good idea, no World AH. it keeps the economy from becoming ridiculous. hell, in my vet merchant guild, purple rare weapons run just a few k. if it were a world ah, those things would run ridiculous higher

Jeremy · April 2014

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

i honestly think its a good idea, no World AH. it keeps the economy from becoming ridiculous. hell, in my vet merchant guild, purple rare weapons run just a few k. if it were a world ah, those things would run ridiculous higher

I believe you are wrong about that. More competition as would be the case with a public auction house drives prices downward, not up.

If you are worried about high prices, decreasing the size of individual markets and limiting availability to them (as this game does) is the best way to accomplish higher prices.

sliyerking · April 2014

c1r3gamerb16_ESO wrote: »

I am reluctant to join a guild in ESO because most of them appear to be just for trading purposes and gaining members solely to reach the numbers required to have a guild store etc.

I see no point in being able to join 5 guilds because I only have time to devote my game time to one and would prefer that one to be a sociable community rather than 200 + strangers just using it as a mini AH.

That's exactly how it is. Which is why ESO should consider a Faction-Auction-House.

sibslynx · April 2014

An auction house would help the economy stabilize and drive prices down. Its a simple concept that competition drives prices down. What about new players coming into the game, do you think there is going to be any low gear listed up there with the limited number of slots and the fact that your selling to mostly the same people that were in the guild when it hit 500 members. This system benefits no one right now, besides maybe guild leaders who use the guild bank for themselves and get 500 extra slots, or people who can rip other people off by charging a ton for an item they know isnt worth that but someone pays it because he has no way to compare. You will have endless spam in zone eventually of people trying to sell, this system just doesnt work.

supernickx · April 2014

I think it was a paper idea that sounded great in theory but isn't really working out as planned. You know it really hasn't worked though when you /tell people about an auction system and they respond with "There's an auction in this game?"

I think they need to strike a balance somewhere because traveling to each individual keep is cumbersome, as is trying to maintain 4 trade guilds.

There needs to be a "hub" where you can access the auctions of everyone who has a keep for example.

Perseas · April 2014

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

Perseas wrote: »

if they keep up supporting only guild stores and not giving soloers a solution, it will end up all soloers moving away and servers will get empty! You know how many soloers are in game? MANY.... I ve met several.

Its the only mmo that supports and benefits a group of people among the whole amount of players.

How does this relate to being a Soloer?, I pretty much only play solo, I talk in Zone quite a but, but I pretty much ignore my guilds unless asked a direct question. It has nothing to do with solo game play.

Soloer in career and life in game... I dont wish to bind my account with any guild. I want to do it my way and when and if I want to. I dont feel good binding my account into any guild. And that is soloer for me. Now, if for you soloer means only in gameplay and u dont mind belonging in 5 guilds... thats ur thing.

And I also believe my choice NOT TO JOIN any guild, was wise as well... Now many people who join guilds and their guilds accomodate gold sellers and cheaters, is not a good thing...

With all this fiasco, even if they pay me, I wont join any guild. As an extra, the guild thing failed, everybody speaks about it. I knew it will fail.. I have some experience with guilds.. lol

I support the vendor idea.. a stand, or a kart that u fill it up and ur vendor sells for some time...

Mizumi · April 2014

Perseas wrote: »

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

Perseas wrote: »

if they keep up supporting only guild stores and not giving soloers a solution, it will end up all soloers moving away and servers will get empty! You know how many soloers are in game? MANY.... I ve met several.

Its the only mmo that supports and benefits a group of people among the whole amount of players.

How does this relate to being a Soloer?, I pretty much only play solo, I talk in Zone quite a but, but I pretty much ignore my guilds unless asked a direct question. It has nothing to do with solo game play.

Soloer in career and life in game... I dont wish to bind my account with any guild. I want to do it my way and when and if I want to. I dont feel good binding my account into any guild. And that is soloer for me. Now, if for you soloer means only in gameplay and u dont mind belonging in 5 guilds... thats ur thing.

And I also believe my choice NOT TO JOIN any guild, was wise as well... Now many people who join guilds and their guilds accomodate gold sellers and cheaters, is not a good thing...

With all this fiasco, even if they pay me, I wont join any guild. As an extra, the guild thing failed, everybody speaks about it. I knew it will fail.. I have some experience with guilds.. lol

I support the vendor idea.. a stand, or a kart that u fill it up and ur vendor sells for some time...

So your past guild experiences have been about getting a knife to your throat and being forced to do stuff when they wanted and how they wanted? otherwise i dont get your point tbh

Perseas · April 2014

I ve played many mmos, ive always had 1 character in a guild and all my other charas as a solo. I did that to experience the high end content. But even if the members are elders.. 30-40-50 y old... They argue like little babies... All about greeding, sucking guild master to give u items or take you with him in the raids, or dangers like gold sellers, hacks, etc. I ve also experienced several guild disbands.

And personally am an asocial person.. I dont give a thing, if u get the best loot, just stop bothering me....lol Also the guild thing limits me, if I dont wish to go with them, do my thing, they get distant and I cannot join with them when and If i want to... so why shall i bother with guilds...

The guild thing is not for me. Also why shall i bother with a thing I believe it will fail

Jeremy · April 2014

supernickx wrote: »

I think it was a paper idea that sounded great in theory but isn't really working out as planned. .

That's what I suspect too.

Sometimes ideas just don't work out the way you wanted them to. And you really never know until you try them.

So I give them credit for trying and will forgive the error so long as they recognize that it's not working and fix the situation.

But what I'm afraid of is that they are too set in their ways to recognize their is a problem. And I would hate to see their obstinacy on a single issue sink such a good game that so many people have worked so hard on.

I think the company would be good to hire someone who is more familiar with economic approaches to manage the game's trade systems. Because just the interface of the guild stores alone is proof enough this issue isn't getting a fraction of the priority or attention it needs.

Jeremy · April 2014

Perseas wrote: »

I ve played many mmos, ive always had 1 character in a guild and all my other charas as a solo. I did that to experience the high end content. But even if the members are elders.. 30-40-50 y old... They argue like little babies... All about greeding, sucking guild master to give u items or take you with him in the raids, or dangers like gold sellers, hacks, etc. I ve also experienced several guild disbands.

And personally am an asocial person.. I dont give a thing, if u get the best loot, just stop bothering me....lol Also the guild thing limits me, if I dont wish to go with them, do my thing, they get distant and I cannot join with them when and If i want to... so why shall i bother with guilds...

The guild thing is not for me. Also why shall i bother with a thing I believe it will fail

I agree.

I have no issue with the concept of Guild Stores. But it should be an added perk. To base the entire economy on them and force players to trade in this manner is a mistake. Especially for a game that touts it's desire to allow players to play as they want.

Lausanna · April 2014

I thought the Guild Store idea was pretty cool at first but in practice I'm finding it a bit frustrating. I can never find what I'm looking for - not only because there is no search function (I got an add-on to fix that issue) but also because there is simply no one selling what I want in the trade guilds I am in. A guild has a 500 person limit - economically speaking that is crippling.

I also don't know if I am overpaying or undercharging, again because it is so hard to search and compare, and also because I don't know what is happening in other guild stores. It was a nice idea but I think I'd prefer a standard AH, if only for the increased selection.

illogicbh · April 2014

They have a forum set up for trades. You can write down all your items stats that youre selling and then minimize your game and log onto the forum and post it to see if you anyone wants to buy it! Super easy

Jeremy · April 2014

Lausanna wrote: »

I thought the Guild Store idea was pretty cool at first but in practice I'm finding it a bit frustrating. I can never find what I'm looking for - not only because there is no search function (I got an add-on to fix that issue) but also because there is simply no one selling what I want in the trade guilds I am in. A guild has a 500 person limit - economically speaking that is crippling.

I also don't know if I am overpaying or undercharging, again because it is so hard to search and compare, and also because I don't know what is happening in other guild stores. It was a nice idea but I think I'd prefer a standard AH, if only for the increased selection.

It's frustrating for certain.

The markets are too small to meet even my own individual demand. Let alone others.

There is no market-based pricing to protect me from being ripped off. The interface is cumbersome. It's just very clear who ever designed the system was used to making single-player games and did not understand the importance convenience and competition play in designing a working economy between real people.

Hopefully they will fix it.

satconcookb14_ESO · April 2014

You have to admit it though, this market system has created a new guild type. Guilds just for marketing/trading.

There are sites out there (esomerchants(dot)org) that are helping to make a joined market. It requires some work on the users part, but it makes for another social aspect. Actually finding a person, if not in the guild, to make the deal.

The guild store needs some improvement, such as a built in search feature, but again, people have adapted add-ons for that feature that work pretty good.

Symmachus · April 2014

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

daggit1b16_ESO wrote: »

they need to put better search functions...

They need to also offer a function that lets you search all your guilds at once or to exclude certain guilds if you want/

http://www.curse.com/teso-addons/teso/guild-store-search
^^How has this not been posted here yet?