Block mitigation is simply too strong an option

Metemsycosis · July 2020

I disagree with op based on counterplay available to all classes and the fact that tanking is a legitimate playstyle that combined with cc pressure is useful for any group.

RedTalon · July 2020

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

There is a great increase in shield users because higher resists mitigates damage. before the patch healing was better tool for mitigating damage, this patch it is resists and maims.

HARD CC is a CC that cannot be blocked. Fear, Fossile, etc. every class has access to one either by their class skill or by a guild skill/world.

Soft CC can be blocked. flame clench, drain etc are examples of a soft cc.

Choose your build load out wisely.

If they revert or buff healing in any way you will see the shield rate drop in pvp.

Also all the snipers in pvp made shields more or less needed to last longer.

Fawn4287 · July 2020

Moonsorrow wrote: »

[snip]

Do you happen to play Magsorc or Magplar by any chance and want everyone to drop dead instantly to Frags or Toppling/Sweeps combo?

Honest questions, not trying to troll or bait. Just would like to know what class/setup you play and how YOU mitigate damage on your setups? Then we can continue this discussion with more data available and where your view on things comes from.

[edited for baiting]

I play stam and its fighting things like magdks and magplars that make me create this thread, they actually just hold block as soon as you attempt a combo and if you run a DOT a magplar just cleanses it, effectively making a combo without draining them of stats entirely so difficult

West93 · July 2020

Magplar can't blockcast jabs, dark flare, radiant, because most of skills are channeled, purifying light need to be built up for burst, so basically magplar has no offense by being defensive and magplars while under pressure being outnumbered spam blockcast honor the dead till they drop dead, while a magsorc can spam shields, have unblockable cc and can proc crystal frags while defending, that's why you see many magsorcs playing solo, however you can count on your one hand fingers how many solo magplars you see in open world cyrodiil who aren't AP collecting healing bots.

Fawn4287 · July 2020

Even playing today every thumbless potato has figured out that even an instant kill 1 burst player can turn a fight in to a sustain battle simply by holding block, the sheer damage that block mitigates needs to be looked at, light armour builds can tank soo much damage by holding block, the damage block mitigates is insane and needs to be significantly lowered in PvP

FirmamentOfStars · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Even playing today every thumbless potato has figured out that even an instant kill 1 burst player can turn a fight in to a sustain battle simply by holding block, the sheer damage that block mitigates needs to be looked at, light armour builds can tank soo much damage by holding block, the damage block mitigates is insane and needs to be significantly lowered in PvP

Maybe try some counter to blocking enemies?
You cant block ground aoes, you cant block dots, use unblockable stuns and abilities with several hits and have fun draining their stamina in seconds, watching their health bar move fast even while blocking.

Blocking isnt overperforming and if you have issues everyone doing it, think out of the box to counter it.

And please dont say you dont have access to dots or an unblockable stun. A class famous for only spamming weapon abilities does very well at the moment with a set being made for magclasses with lots of dots.

Gaggin · July 2020

blocking costs mobility, which is precious in pvp. One dodge can also negate multiple attacks, so your cost analysis is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaqwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavfhhfghhgdyjfdfaaaaaaay off.

Joy_Division · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Compare roll dodge and block, block is an easier more forgiving mechanic, far cheaper, mitigates AOEs, allows for block casting and equipping the matched weapon type (s+b or ice destro) gives a massive boost to cost reduction and damage blocked so why if one option is the far easier and superior pick is roll dodge penalised with such a severe fatigue? Either roll dodge combined with bow needs a similar cost reduction and improvement to roll damage immunity length or block needs to have a more severe penalty for simply just holding block like an increase in block base cost that increases the longer block is held for and have a cooldown for the length block was held. The argument “block stops regen” is not enough considering proc resource return still works and sword and board ult allows for blocking heavy attacks to take place. Again compare say 5 seconds of holding block on a tank compared to 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build, the resource cost to mitigation just doesn’t compare.

ZOS should not have gotten rid of the LOL button.

Akinos · July 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote:

Compare roll dodge and block, block is an easier more forgiving mechanic, far cheaper, mitigates AOEs, allows for block casting and equipping the matched weapon type (s+b or ice destro) gives a massive boost to cost reduction and damage blocked so why if one option is the far easier and superior pick is roll dodge penalised with such a severe fatigue? Either roll dodge combined with bow needs a similar cost reduction and improvement to roll damage immunity length or block needs to have a more severe penalty for simply just holding block like an increase in block base cost that increases the longer block is held for and have a cooldown for the length block was held. The argument “block stops regen” is not enough considering proc resource return still works and sword and board ult allows for blocking heavy attacks to take place. Again compare say 5 seconds of holding block on a tank compared to 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build, the resource cost to mitigation just doesn’t compare.

ZOS should not have gotten rid of the LOL button.

IKR? Imagine trying to get block nerfed when dodge roll spam looks like this:
img]

Fawn4287 · July 2020

Akinos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote:

Compare roll dodge and block, block is an easier more forgiving mechanic, far cheaper, mitigates AOEs, allows for block casting and equipping the matched weapon type (s+b or ice destro) gives a massive boost to cost reduction and damage blocked so why if one option is the far easier and superior pick is roll dodge penalised with such a severe fatigue? Either roll dodge combined with bow needs a similar cost reduction and improvement to roll damage immunity length or block needs to have a more severe penalty for simply just holding block like an increase in block base cost that increases the longer block is held for and have a cooldown for the length block was held. The argument “block stops regen” is not enough considering proc resource return still works and sword and board ult allows for blocking heavy attacks to take place. Again compare say 5 seconds of holding block on a tank compared to 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build, the resource cost to mitigation just doesn’t compare.

ZOS should not have gotten rid of the LOL button.

IKR? Imagine trying to get block nerfed when dodge roll spam looks like this:

You can’t act dodge that often and be offensive, ever heard of a perma roll build? On the other hand theres half a dozen ways to make a perma block build with a huge damage output

Akinos · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote:

Compare roll dodge and block, block is an easier more forgiving mechanic, far cheaper, mitigates AOEs, allows for block casting and equipping the matched weapon type (s+b or ice destro) gives a massive boost to cost reduction and damage blocked so why if one option is the far easier and superior pick is roll dodge penalised with such a severe fatigue? Either roll dodge combined with bow needs a similar cost reduction and improvement to roll damage immunity length or block needs to have a more severe penalty for simply just holding block like an increase in block base cost that increases the longer block is held for and have a cooldown for the length block was held. The argument “block stops regen” is not enough considering proc resource return still works and sword and board ult allows for blocking heavy attacks to take place. Again compare say 5 seconds of holding block on a tank compared to 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build, the resource cost to mitigation just doesn’t compare.

ZOS should not have gotten rid of the LOL button.

IKR? Imagine trying to get block nerfed when dodge roll spam looks like this:

You can’t act dodge that often and be offensive, ever heard of a perma roll build? On the other hand theres half a dozen ways to make a perma block build with a huge damage output

Uhh what? I've encountered players in ESO that can dodge roll more then 6 times and still have stupid high weapon damage, all while vigor heals them to full heath and their DoTS are ticking on me. It's an actual waste of resources casting on players like that, 2 gcd's and a light attack all completely negated by one dodge roll. Mean while you can still get hit pretty hard while blocking and not getting any stamina back while doing so either.

Lord-Otto · July 2020

Akinos wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote:

Compare roll dodge and block, block is an easier more forgiving mechanic, far cheaper, mitigates AOEs, allows for block casting and equipping the matched weapon type (s+b or ice destro) gives a massive boost to cost reduction and damage blocked so why if one option is the far easier and superior pick is roll dodge penalised with such a severe fatigue? Either roll dodge combined with bow needs a similar cost reduction and improvement to roll damage immunity length or block needs to have a more severe penalty for simply just holding block like an increase in block base cost that increases the longer block is held for and have a cooldown for the length block was held. The argument “block stops regen” is not enough considering proc resource return still works and sword and board ult allows for blocking heavy attacks to take place. Again compare say 5 seconds of holding block on a tank compared to 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build, the resource cost to mitigation just doesn’t compare.

ZOS should not have gotten rid of the LOL button.

IKR? Imagine trying to get block nerfed when dodge roll spam looks like this:

You can’t act dodge that often and be offensive, ever heard of a perma roll build? On the other hand theres half a dozen ways to make a perma block build with a huge damage output

Uhh what? I've encountered players in ESO that can dodge roll more then 6 times and still have stupid high weapon damage, all while vigor heals them to full heath and their DoTS are ticking on me. It's an actual waste of resources casting on players like that, 2 gcd's and a light attack all completely negated by one dodge roll. Mean while you can still get hit pretty hard while blocking and not getting any stamina back while doing so either.

The difference to Dark Souls is that after a roll in DS, you're vulnerable in recovery frames, which your opponent can use to roll catch you. In ESO, iframes linger. After your dodge animation, you're still dodging attacks while you're moving or using skills, etc.. ZOS said they fixed that years ago, but they didn't. As such, dodge in ESO remains a poorly-designed mechanic.