Block mitigation is simply too strong an option

Fawn4287

Compare roll dodge and block, block is an easier more forgiving mechanic, far cheaper, mitigates AOEs, allows for block casting and equipping the matched weapon type (s+b or ice destro) gives a massive boost to cost reduction and damage blocked so why if one option is the far easier and superior pick is roll dodge penalised with such a severe fatigue? Either roll dodge combined with bow needs a similar cost reduction and improvement to roll damage immunity length or block needs to have a more severe penalty for simply just holding block like an increase in block base cost that increases the longer block is held for and have a cooldown for the length block was held. The argument “block stops regen” is not enough considering proc resource return still works and sword and board ult allows for blocking heavy attacks to take place. Again compare say 5 seconds of holding block on a tank compared to 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build, the resource cost to mitigation just doesn’t compare.

Kadoin

No.

idk

Where dodge is the ideal defensive method is mitigates 100% of the damage vs a percentage of that damage. Further, it would be more compelling if an actual comparison based on real analysis was presented vs generalizations.

JayKwellen

L2Fear/Stun

Mayrael

You forget about damage mitigation where dodge allows you to ignore 100% damage of most skills, it grants you roots immunity, allows you reposition and use LoS more easly. There are already ways of reducing cost of dodge, use them. Roll dodge doesn't need any buffs. It got already heavily buffed with soul assault overnerf.

Akinos

Mayrael wrote: »

You forget about damage mitigation where dodge allows you to ignore 100% damage of most skills, it grants you roots immunity, allows you reposition and use LoS more easly. There are already ways of reducing cost of dodge, use them. Roll dodge doesn't need any buffs. It got already heavily buffed with soul assault overnerf.

This right here, dodge roll is 100% damage EVASION while blocking is just damage MITIGATION. Not taking damage at all is 200% better then simply lowering the damage you take.

Tommy_The_Gun

Sorry, I have just imagined PvE Tank tauntung & roll-dodging bosses & mobs through entire dungeon / trial (Scooby Doo style)...

Can't stop laughing. Thank you OP, you made ma day...

LuxiasCaelum13

Honestly i don't get the laughs on OP. For someone who has played PvP recently it should pretty obvious the fact that PvP has experienced a great increase in shield users. There is not a single BG where i don't find less than 4 shield users. Cyrodiil is plagued with them. And if we do an analysis of this mechanic it becomes pretty obvious why.

Blocking, as many people said, mitigates a % of the incoming damage, while roll dodging avoids all the damage. However, there are many differences, and i feel like if everyone is ignoring them on purpose. First, roll dodge doesn't work on AoEs, so dodging is not an option when someone spams jabs in front of you, when you receive a meteor ult, atro, crescent sweeps, dragon leap, steel tornado, sub assault...and the list goes on. Blocking in the other hand mitigates both direct and aoe damage, and it doesn't consume a GCD (which roll dodge does, btw), allowing block-casting. This, and the marginal difference of stamina costs is the main reason why now everyone in pvp seems to have shield in their backbar. It's extremely effective in 1v1, and it doesn't take that much effort compared to roll dodge. Rolling is actually way more complex, it requires to know when and where and a single mistake at rolling can get you caught between two bad hitboxes, down a lava pit (specially in maps like Ald Carac), falling off a cliff or a roof...while blocking is faster, allows for quick heals while mitigating damage (and forcing your opponent to waste resources) and coming back pretty easily. At least rolling wastes your stamina pretty quick, but blocking? Unless you are trying to block 10 players at the same time, any build with decent sustain will be able to do it without consequences.

Some people say "bUt yOu cAn fEaR, sTuN tHeM". As if that was the real problem. The real problem here is the window of the CC inmunity. You can CC the blocking player, but he can instantly get up, block, use a hot, followed by his burst heal while blocking, CC the opponent and recover, and keep fighting as if nothing happened, and meanwhile you have to watch how he gets back to full health without being able to do nothing, unless you have skills that bypass block, which is not that common to treat it as the status quo. Seeing someone at the verge of death going back to full health without you being able to CC them because they still have CC inmunity is one of the most frustrating things you can find in PvP.

I think battle spirit should address blocking somehow. It shouldn't be allowed to be the lifesaver it is right now. The tankyness is still there. Maybe making block increasing its cost the more attacks you block during a certain time lapse, like making block cost increase by 20% if you block and attack whithin 3 seconds of the previous one. Maybe just making a flat cost increase while in PvP zones...something.

technohic

^you see 1h and shield for the extra resistance but not someone really holding block a lot. The people that do, generally have to invest more than the ones that just keep rolling

Have you guys just slapped on a 1h and shield alone and just tried to held block? We see someone try and laugh as they just still drop and just delay a few seconds. The ones that still have some killing power look to just block quickly and get back to movement and heals.

Blocking here sounds like the next "tank meta" whining to where an important mechanic will get neutered for the average players, but the players dedicated to it or the real problem go untouched

LuxiasCaelum13

When i see people with 1h and shield is for the reasons i mentioned before, i'm not making things up.

Blocking is a constant specially in certain classes, to be more precise, and based on my experience, Templars (both), StamDKs and StamDens. And it's not just a coincidence. 1h and shield synergizes really well with those classes, making them the best candidates for tanking strats. It's not hard at all to see players blocking for 5-6 seconds straight, negating everything you throw at them while keeping their offensive. That can't be said about roll spammers.

Templars have great heals and insane recovery capacity, StamDKs have their innate bulk and shield affinity, and StamDens have amazing offheals, great burst and projectile inmunity. And i don't know what your experience is, but i didn't write that because nothing, i did it because it's something i see every day. Maybe blocking is not neccesarily the "new tank meta", but it has definetely been part of the problem, and it keeps being it.

technohic wrote: »

Have you guys just slapped on a 1h and shield alone and just tried to held block? We see someone try and laugh as they just still drop and just delay a few seconds. The ones that still have some killing power look to just block quickly and get back to movement and heals.

Also you make it look like if i said "permablock" or something like that, which is not true. I stated the issues related to blocking, but i didn't state that. Yes, there are still some permablockers out there, but that wasn't what i was talking about. Just like how people don't keep rolling for 10 seconds straight, people don't usually block for 20 seconds, but that's something so obvious i don't think there is a need to say it.

VoluptaBox

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

It's not hard at all to see players blocking for 5-6 seconds straight, negating everything you throw at them while keeping their offensive. That can't be said about roll spammers.

How do people block and keep on the offensive at the same time? That's a skill I ought to master myself.

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Templars have great heals and insane recovery capacity, StamDKs have their innate bulk and shield affinity, and StamDens have amazing offheals, great burst and projectile inmunity.

What is innately tanky about StamDKs? I frankly do not see it.

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Also you make it look like if i said "permablock" or something like that, which is not true. I stated the issues related to blocking, but i didn't state that. Yes, there are still some permablockers out there, but that wasn't what i was talking about. Just like how people don't keep rolling for 10 seconds straight, people don't usually block for 20 seconds, but that's something so obvious i don't think there is a need to say it.

And here's the gist of the issue, you're trying to compare apples to oranges. Why should 10 seconds of block be equivalent, in cost and effectiveness, to 10 seconds of roll dodging? It makes no sense whatsoever.

They both have their uses, benefits and opportunity costs. Good players take advantage of both in equal measure. And by equal measure I don't mean that 50% of the time is spent dodging and 50% is spent blocking, just to be clear. To sum it up, roll dodging does not feel over costed for what it does (nor blocking under costed).

Master_Kas

#throwback 2014.

How many times does blocking needs to be nerfed?

technohic

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

When i see people with 1h and shield is for the reasons i mentioned before, i'm not making things up.

Blocking is a constant specially in certain classes, to be more precise, and based on my experience, Templars (both), StamDKs and StamDens. And it's not just a coincidence. 1h and shield synergizes really well with those classes, making them the best candidates for tanking strats. It's not hard at all to see players blocking for 5-6 seconds straight, negating everything you throw at them while keeping their offensive. That can't be said about roll spammers.

Templars have great heals and insane recovery capacity, StamDKs have their innate bulk and shield affinity, and StamDens have amazing offheals, great burst and projectile inmunity. And i don't know what your experience is, but i didn't write that because nothing, i did it because it's something i see every day. Maybe blocking is not neccesarily the "new tank meta", but it has definetely been part of the problem, and it keeps being it.

technohic wrote: »

Have you guys just slapped on a 1h and shield alone and just tried to held block? We see someone try and laugh as they just still drop and just delay a few seconds. The ones that still have some killing power look to just block quickly and get back to movement and heals.

Also you make it look like if i said "permablock" or something like that, which is not true. I stated the issues related to blocking, but i didn't state that. Yes, there are still some permablockers out there, but that wasn't what i was talking about. Just like how people don't keep rolling for 10 seconds straight, people don't usually block for 20 seconds, but that's something so obvious i don't think there is a need to say it.

So basically you see it on classes that don't have streak or cloak to just escape all damage. Go figure. Gee; I wonder why it's a popular option there.

FirmamentOfStars

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Blocking in the other hand mitigates both direct and aoe damage, and it doesn't consume a GCD (which roll dodge does, btw), allowing block-casting. This, and the marginal difference of stamina costs is the main reason why now everyone in pvp seems to have shield in their backbar.

Roll dodge doesnt consume a GCD either. The GCD only applies to skills. You can use a light attack, skill and rolldodge right after each other and cancel the skill animation with the roll. As soon as you are out of the roll you can cast the next skill. During the time you het hit by aoes, but some aoes also ignore blocking. Both have their advantages and different uses, but blocking is not inherently miles better. Especially this patch, rolling is a very strong tactic in PvP, since damage avoidance and hit-and-run playstyles are favoured in this low-healing state of the game. Rolly-polly builds are the winners of this patch, since they have to heal less, that is why stamblades and stamsorcs are played more and more this patch.

Xologamer

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Compare roll dodge and block, block is an easier more forgiving mechanic, far cheaper, mitigates AOEs, allows for block casting and equipping the matched weapon type (s+b or ice destro) gives a massive boost to cost reduction and damage blocked so why if one option is the far easier and superior pick is roll dodge penalised with such a severe fatigue? Either roll dodge combined with bow needs a similar cost reduction and improvement to roll damage immunity length or block needs to have a more severe penalty for simply just holding block like an increase in block base cost that increases the longer block is held for and have a cooldown for the length block was held. The argument “block stops regen” is not enough considering proc resource return still works and sword and board ult allows for blocking heavy attacks to take place. Again compare say 5 seconds of holding block on a tank compared to 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build, the resource cost to mitigation just doesn’t compare.

maybe stop trashing dodge with this crap with ,,undogable abillitys" (bigges trash EVER) than all would be fine

eKsDee

When will people in this community learn that the meta shifts in response to the changes that the devs push, that you can't get the full picture without actually looking at why the meta is the way it is in the first place, and that constantly nerfing things isn't going to fix things.

SnB and block are both as common as they are because they're the most consistent form of damage mitigation and defense in the game right now. Between lag, healing nerfs, the failed Murkmire dodge rework that broke more than it fixed, the multiple shield reworks that broke shields on everything except magsorc, and just general horrible balancing, SnB and block are just the most consistent form of damage mitigation and defense, that's consistently good in all scenarios.

Nerfing them is not going to fix the problem, it's just going to cause the meta to shift to the next most consistent thing, and you all will be whining about that, except now that next most consistent thing is going to be a bit less consistent than SnB and block both were, and so the process will repeat itself, with the remaining options becoming more and more garbage.

Want to introduce more diversity in builds? Want to address how strong SnB and block both are, without just pushing everyone onto the next supposedly-most-OP thing? Fix the lag. Fix dodge. Properly balance damage, healing, mitigation and damage shields. Undo the horrible balancing that has taken so many fun, unique and strong tools away from classes. Asking for this to be nerfed will get you nowhere, you'll be coming right back to the forums, asking for the next thing to be nerfed.

Fawn4287

VoluptaBox wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

It's not hard at all to see players blocking for 5-6 seconds straight, negating everything you throw at them while keeping their offensive. That can't be said about roll spammers.

How do people block and keep on the offensive at the same time? That's a skill I ought to master myself.

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Templars have great heals and insane recovery capacity, StamDKs have their innate bulk and shield affinity, and StamDens have amazing offheals, great burst and projectile inmunity.

What is innately tanky about StamDKs? I frankly do not see it.

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Also you make it look like if i said "permablock" or something like that, which is not true. I stated the issues related to blocking, but i didn't state that. Yes, there are still some permablockers out there, but that wasn't what i was talking about. Just like how people don't keep rolling for 10 seconds straight, people don't usually block for 20 seconds, but that's something so obvious i don't think there is a need to say it.

And here's the gist of the issue, you're trying to compare apples to oranges. Why should 10 seconds of block be equivalent, in cost and effectiveness, to 10 seconds of roll dodging? It makes no sense whatsoever.

They both have their uses, benefits and opportunity costs. Good players take advantage of both in equal measure. And by equal measure I don't mean that 50% of the time is spent dodging and 50% is spent blocking, just to be clear. To sum it up, roll dodging does not feel over costed for what it does (nor blocking under costed).

Magdk with sturdy and bloodthorn offers the most cookie cutter permablock build, nearly the entire Magdk offensive toolkit is an instant cast, single target DOT, wait until a certain health is reached, fossilise (of which there is 0 practical counters), leap, then whip

Fawn4287

SavageChain wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Blocking in the other hand mitigates both direct and aoe damage, and it doesn't consume a GCD (which roll dodge does, btw), allowing block-casting. This, and the marginal difference of stamina costs is the main reason why now everyone in pvp seems to have shield in their backbar.

Roll dodge doesnt consume a GCD either. The GCD only applies to skills. You can use a light attack, skill and rolldodge right after each other and cancel the skill animation with the roll. As soon as you are out of the roll you can cast the next skill. During the time you het hit by aoes, but some aoes also ignore blocking. Both have their advantages and different uses, but blocking is not inherently miles better. Especially this patch, rolling is a very strong tactic in PvP, since damage avoidance and hit-and-run playstyles are favoured in this low-healing state of the game. Rolly-polly builds are the winners of this patch, since they have to heal less, that is why stamblades and stamsorcs are played more and more this patch.

Then you haven’t come across many Magdks then, I would like to see a roley poley stamsorc try and take on a 40k+ magica magdk with grothdar/skoria and malacaths in a duel

FrancisCrawford

I don't understand this idea of instantly getting up after a stun.

It seems to take me several seconds to break free, by which point I'm dead or at least hopelessly lost. What am I likely doing wrong?

Fawn4287

technohic wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

When i see people with 1h and shield is for the reasons i mentioned before, i'm not making things up.

Blocking is a constant specially in certain classes, to be more precise, and based on my experience, Templars (both), StamDKs and StamDens. And it's not just a coincidence. 1h and shield synergizes really well with those classes, making them the best candidates for tanking strats. It's not hard at all to see players blocking for 5-6 seconds straight, negating everything you throw at them while keeping their offensive. That can't be said about roll spammers.

Templars have great heals and insane recovery capacity, StamDKs have their innate bulk and shield affinity, and StamDens have amazing offheals, great burst and projectile inmunity. And i don't know what your experience is, but i didn't write that because nothing, i did it because it's something i see every day. Maybe blocking is not neccesarily the "new tank meta", but it has definetely been part of the problem, and it keeps being it.

technohic wrote: »

Have you guys just slapped on a 1h and shield alone and just tried to held block? We see someone try and laugh as they just still drop and just delay a few seconds. The ones that still have some killing power look to just block quickly and get back to movement and heals.

Also you make it look like if i said "permablock" or something like that, which is not true. I stated the issues related to blocking, but i didn't state that. Yes, there are still some permablockers out there, but that wasn't what i was talking about. Just like how people don't keep rolling for 10 seconds straight, people don't usually block for 20 seconds, but that's something so obvious i don't think there is a need to say it.

So basically you see it on classes that don't have streak or cloak to just escape all damage. Go figure. Gee; I wonder why it's a popular option there.

Its a popular option because its so incredibly easy when you see your opponent start a combo hold block, block cast heals, when stam runs out LOS with mist form And regen stam, use tri pot when out of stats, hit defensive ult, rinse and repeat, unkillable 1v1, survive against the other player, cycle this waiting for teammates or hit an invis pot and run, how to be invincible in nearly any 1v1 situation whilst still maintaining the capability to kill other players.

Qbiken

Imagine complaining about block-casting on a class like magplar (or any class that likes to turtle up on their backbar outside of SnB ultimate). The moment a magplar that isn´t build purely for being a tank/sponge, they will not recovery vs anyone with decent damage. Sitting on your backbar spamming heals to stay alive is a dead playstyle (as I said, excluding the pure tank/healbots, speaking about more all rounded builds), even more so in NOCP.

Your avarage burst heal (like breath of life) is so weak these days that once you go into execute range you´re more or less likely to drop dead than actually recover. With self healing being both nerfed AND bugged, you´re much better off relying on mobility than turtling up and block spam your self/burst heals (like good luck trying to recover when your avarage breath of life/honor the dead crits for 5k (in CP) due to the heal nerfs)

Fawn4287

eKsDee wrote: »

When will people in this community learn that the meta shifts in response to the changes that the devs push, that you can't get the full picture without actually looking at why the meta is the way it is in the first place, and that constantly nerfing things isn't going to fix things.

SnB and block are both as common as they are because they're the most consistent form of damage mitigation and defense in the game right now. Between lag, healing nerfs, the failed Murkmire dodge rework that broke more than it fixed, the multiple shield reworks that broke shields on everything except magsorc, and just general horrible balancing, SnB and block are just the most consistent form of damage mitigation and defense, that's consistently good in all scenarios.

Nerfing them is not going to fix the problem, it's just going to cause the meta to shift to the next most consistent thing, and you all will be whining about that, except now that next most consistent thing is going to be a bit less consistent than SnB and block both were, and so the process will repeat itself, with the remaining options becoming more and more garbage.

Want to introduce more diversity in builds? Want to address how strong SnB and block both are, without just pushing everyone onto the next supposedly-most-OP thing? Fix the lag. Fix dodge. Properly balance damage, healing, mitigation and damage shields. Undo the horrible balancing that has taken so many fun, unique and strong tools away from classes. Asking for this to be nerfed will get you nowhere, you'll be coming right back to the forums, asking for the next thing to be nerfed.

Sword and board has been a major issue since the removal of bleeds ignoring resistances and the nerfs to DOTs, its just that everyone is capable of using it so people don’t complain since no one wants their own cheese nerfed, however even though I do use one on most builds I see how hard it overperforms (especially with a strong burst heal). Its also unfair how in an outnumbered situation when you are about to be killed by the player you outnumber you simply hold block and that player will quickly give up on you as the resources to keep hitting you for 600 damage per spammable use isn’t worth it and quite often someone else will burst heal you out of danger anyway.

LuxiasCaelum13

VoluptaBox wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

It's not hard at all to see players blocking for 5-6 seconds straight, negating everything you throw at them while keeping their offensive. That can't be said about roll spammers.

How do people block and keep on the offensive at the same time? That's a skill I ought to master myself.

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Templars have great heals and insane recovery capacity, StamDKs have their innate bulk and shield affinity, and StamDens have amazing offheals, great burst and projectile inmunity.

What is innately tanky about StamDKs? I frankly do not see it.

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Also you make it look like if i said "permablock" or something like that, which is not true. I stated the issues related to blocking, but i didn't state that. Yes, there are still some permablockers out there, but that wasn't what i was talking about. Just like how people don't keep rolling for 10 seconds straight, people don't usually block for 20 seconds, but that's something so obvious i don't think there is a need to say it.

And here's the gist of the issue, you're trying to compare apples to oranges. Why should 10 seconds of block be equivalent, in cost and effectiveness, to 10 seconds of roll dodging? It makes no sense whatsoever.

They both have their uses, benefits and opportunity costs. Good players take advantage of both in equal measure. And by equal measure I don't mean that 50% of the time is spent dodging and 50% is spent blocking, just to be clear. To sum it up, roll dodging does not feel over costed for what it does (nor blocking under costed).

You don't understand because you don't want to.

-The first one is called block casting and bash weave. Blocking doesn't prevent you from casting skills.

-About the second one: read, and if you have a dragonkight, check the passives. https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragonknight

-About the third one yes, they are comparable, as they both are defensive mechanics. It's like comparing blocking and dodging in Dark Souls. Both serve the same purpose, that being to reduce/avoid damage and improving survivability. Both have their own pros and cons, and in order to make the game balanced we should check each one and them tip the scales to not make one of them outclass the other. And honestly, at this point i really feel like blocking outperforms against rolling.

"They both have their uses, benefits and opportunity costs. Good players take advantage of both in equal measure." This is something i truly agree with you, but when i see every threat being nullified by the same mechanic maybe they are not that balanced.

LuxiasCaelum13

technohic wrote: »

So basically you see it on classes that don't have streak or cloak to just escape all damage. Go figure. Gee; I wonder why it's a popular option there.

Duh, i didn't know there was only those two options, disengage skills or blocking, it's not like you can hit vigor, dodge and run, LoS, invis pots, the chicken wings or any other speed buff...

The point i'm trying to give, if you want to understand, has more to do with the fact that, when given two equally valid options to avoid damage, people these days seem to resort only to one, which may explain why there are some imbalances.

Tommy_The_Gun

Ok, with all seriousness...

You know that there are forms of CC that go through block ? Like Fear for example. If you don't have access to it via class skill, you can always use Turn Evil (Fighters Guild skill).

Same for roll-dodge. If some one is dodging your attacks, use AOE skills instead of single target ones.


To me it simply looks like one of many L2P issues. And... no wonder since we have MYM PvP Event, so players new to PvP might be confused. It is just sad that some people prefer to go to forums & call for nerfs, rather than read a guide or learn from their own mistakes.

BlackMadara

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Compare roll dodge and block, block is an easier more forgiving mechanic, far cheaper, mitigates AOEs, allows for block casting and equipping the matched weapon type (s+b or ice destro) gives a massive boost to cost reduction and damage blocked so why if one option is the far easier and superior pick is roll dodge penalised with such a severe fatigue? Either roll dodge combined with bow needs a similar cost reduction and improvement to roll damage immunity length or block needs to have a more severe penalty for simply just holding block like an increase in block base cost that increases the longer block is held for and have a cooldown for the length block was held. The argument “block stops regen” is not enough considering proc resource return still works and sword and board ult allows for blocking heavy attacks to take place. Again compare say 5 seconds of holding block on a tank compared to 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build, the resource cost to mitigation just doesn’t compare.

I would just like to do the comparison you mentioned of 5 seconds of blocking on a tank vs 3 dodge rolls on a roley poley build. First, I'd like to acknowledge that one must build specifically to block for long periods of time, which often comes at the expense of bar slots or offensive stats. The only stat needed to increase roll dodge effectiveness is stam regen.

Block is charged stamina every .25 seconds, so you have a maximum off 4 instances of block stamina cost per second. One can dodge every second, with a 33% cost increase for each consecutive dodge roll. Both cases will be with 20% respective cost reduction CP.

Block: SnB (33%), 3 sturdy (12%), Defensive Stance (10%) - 668 block cost x 4 attacks x 5 seconds = 13360 stamina
Dodge Roll: 5 medium (20%), 3 well fitted (15%) = 2100 roll cost x 3 (33% increase each roll) = 8608 stamina

In this instance blocking would cost more. Even against a single target, with 2 instances of blocking per second (light attack skill weave) blocking would cost 6680. A stam DK with this set up would block 70% of incoming damage, while any build rolling will evade 100% damage that isn't an AOE. I think that these tradeoffs are comparable and have pros and cons depending on the specific circumstance. That is fine. We do not want all defensive mechanics to behave the exact same.

VoluptaBox

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

VoluptaBox wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

It's not hard at all to see players blocking for 5-6 seconds straight, negating everything you throw at them while keeping their offensive. That can't be said about roll spammers.

How do people block and keep on the offensive at the same time? That's a skill I ought to master myself.

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Templars have great heals and insane recovery capacity, StamDKs have their innate bulk and shield affinity, and StamDens have amazing offheals, great burst and projectile inmunity.

What is innately tanky about StamDKs? I frankly do not see it.

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Also you make it look like if i said "permablock" or something like that, which is not true. I stated the issues related to blocking, but i didn't state that. Yes, there are still some permablockers out there, but that wasn't what i was talking about. Just like how people don't keep rolling for 10 seconds straight, people don't usually block for 20 seconds, but that's something so obvious i don't think there is a need to say it.

And here's the gist of the issue, you're trying to compare apples to oranges. Why should 10 seconds of block be equivalent, in cost and effectiveness, to 10 seconds of roll dodging? It makes no sense whatsoever.

They both have their uses, benefits and opportunity costs. Good players take advantage of both in equal measure. And by equal measure I don't mean that 50% of the time is spent dodging and 50% is spent blocking, just to be clear. To sum it up, roll dodging does not feel over costed for what it does (nor blocking under costed).

You don't understand because you don't want to.

-The first one is called block casting and bash weave. Blocking doesn't prevent you from casting skills.

-About the second one: read, and if you have a dragonkight, check the passives. https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragonknight

-About the third one yes, they are comparable, as they both are defensive mechanics. It's like comparing blocking and dodging in Dark Souls. Both serve the same purpose, that being to reduce/avoid damage and improving survivability. Both have their own pros and cons, and in order to make the game balanced we should check each one and them tip the scales to not make one of them outclass the other. And honestly, at this point i really feel like blocking outperforms against rolling.

"They both have their uses, benefits and opportunity costs. Good players take advantage of both in equal measure." This is something i truly agree with you, but when i see every threat being nullified by the same mechanic maybe they are not that balanced.

I'm aware of both block casting and bash weave, but you can't reasonably say that you can both perma block and do your full offensive rotation at the same time. You can cast some offensive skills, heal, etc, but for the most part if you decide to go ahead and just hold block you're not pressuring your opponent. Which in most cases only delays the inevitable.

Also, which way you decide to go with your build (block mitigation, lots of dodging or somewhere in between) will vary wildly between builds. Saying that one is vastly more popular than the other just seems anecdotal to me.

Moonsorrow

[snip]

Do you happen to play Magsorc or Magplar by any chance and want everyone to drop dead instantly to Frags or Toppling/Sweeps combo?

Honest questions, not trying to troll or bait. Just would like to know what class/setup you play and how YOU mitigate damage on your setups? Then we can continue this discussion with more data available and where your view on things comes from.

[edited for baiting]

RedTalon

There are simple ways to break shield blocks roll up drop a totem if a necro will force them to move real fast and pound them into the dirt quickly

DUTCH_REAPER

There is a great increase in shield users because higher resists mitigates damage. before the patch healing was better tool for mitigating damage, this patch it is resists and maims.

HARD CC is a CC that cannot be blocked. Fear, Fossile, etc. every class has access to one either by their class skill or by a guild skill/world.

Soft CC can be blocked. flame clench, drain etc are examples of a soft cc.

Choose your build load out wisely.

If they revert or buff healing in any way you will see the shield rate drop in pvp.

idk

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Blocking, as many people said, mitigates a % of the incoming damage, while roll dodging avoids all the damage. However, there are many differences, and i feel like if everyone is ignoring them on purpose. .

My point in bringing this up comments in the OP is merely complaining and is contained in a vacuum that ignores any actual analysis or meaningful comparisons. Yes, I understand that takes time and effort but it is effective in eliminating efforts from anecdotal information.

Same with an observation that more people are using shields. We generally do not count and at that, we see a limited number of players. Further, it could be we are seeing nothing more than people copying a streamer's build.

Edit: And DUTCH_REAPER brings up a solid point in their post above this one. The change to healing makes resistance more favorable. That demonstrates a valid point.