Vampirism feels like it should now. Great job.

JMadFour · July 2020

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Why do some merchants refuse to interact with my vampires? I hadn't used any vampire abilities for hours but three on the road refused me and I really needed to empty my bags. Ended up having to go all the way back to a city. What crap is this?

Most NPCs won't talk to you if you are Stage 4.

If you are Stage 4 you have to use Mesmerize (or Morphs) on them while they are facing you(you'll see a pink/purplish glow around their head if you got it right), then you can talk to them like normal.

Vampire Stage doesn't go up or down based on skill usage anymore. It is solely feeding. You go up 1 stage every time you feed, and each stage lasts 4 hours unless you drink a Purifying Bloody Mara to instantly drop a stage.

SlimeBro1 · July 2020

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Why do some merchants refuse to interact with my vampires? I hadn't used any vampire abilities for hours but three on the road refused me and I really needed to empty my bags. Ended up having to go all the way back to a city. What crap is this?

You gotta use mesmerize on them.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Why do some merchants refuse to interact with my vampires? I hadn't used any vampire abilities for hours but three on the road refused me and I really needed to empty my bags. Ended up having to go all the way back to a city. What crap is this?

Merchants and bankers refuse to interact with Stage 4 vampires.

You can use the Mesmerize ability to interact with them, or use a Purifying Bloody Mara to reduce a stage.

Wildberryjack · July 2020

I'm at stage one. And vampire level one so don't have mesmerize unlocked.

Vevvev · July 2020

Wildberryjack wrote: »

I'm at stage one. And vampire level one so don't have mesmerize unlocked.

If this is true its probably a bug. I've never run into it before nor have I heard of this happening before, but I've seen crazier things happen in ESO. Try going to stage 2 by eating some unlucky bandit and see if that fixes it.

Grianasteri · July 2020

Tend to agree, compared to where Vampirism has come from, the current iteration is by far, better in almost every way.

The primary goal was to stop Vampirism being a passive buff alone, and make it more of a play style and choice one had to make, similar to Werewolf. Zos succeeded.

I do not however like the Vampire lord ulti, it just doesn't feel right to me.

Sanguinor2 · July 2020

I dont like new vampirism. Atleast for PvE. Instead of a 10% recovery passive becoming the sole reason to run vampire, now every mag build has to run vampire for an overpowered spammable that makes sustain a non issue. (I didnt run vampire before the rework but now I´ll have to to be competitive on any mag build that isnt a necro)

buttaface · July 2020

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

Even the ulti is kind of overpriced for what it does.

Nothing about this rework screams variety.

But then again, if you yourself think this is the best skill line update ever...

The last sentence above is a transparent fallacy, and the first two sentences are the kind of deck-stacking in which your posts to this thread go off the rails.

In terms of the ult, So you think an ult build that backbars vamp lord set (ak dragonguard weapons/jewelry and maelstrom staff front) for 164 ult that gives you:

an instant full heal... name how many skills in this game do that? I can't think of more than a few. THAT ALONE is worth 164 ult in itself IMO!

10,000 health stam and magicka pools... how many 5 set bonuses is that? would you wear a set that gave you 10k total of your major resource pool intermittently? Ask all those necro/bright throat/alfiq/clever alch folks that question, or are the prices that high for fun?

very powerful general sustained healing that can overcome the 600 wd/sd drain for a few seconds until toggling it back off and then on. This kind of toggled drain IS EXACTLY what is meant by "variety." Risk and reward (not "kiss/curse" some abject moron coined that atrocity up)

a 3000-4000 per second aoe dot that heals you. Hey look Ma, I'm surpassing total Staff Ult damage for 164 ult that HEALS ME! GO ME!

while ALL skills are still available allowing LOTS of tanking, dps and yes even healing "variety" options.. that yes, as others point out... YOU just haven't thought of them yet.

for 20 seconds

is "overpriced for what it does?" "Doesn't scream variety?" OK, then, you are welcome to your opinion.

buttaface · July 2020

Nova_J wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

New vamp is great, not just for mag dps but for lots of tanking and solo builds. Also, nothing styles better than a max size height Nord after the ult transform, straight from Pick of Destiny. Had written a long flame about elitists jerks whining whenever dps is made easier and more sustainable in this casual game for casual players, not an ESPORT, but NM, they wouldn't admit this is what they are really griping about anyway, and would keep rationalizing some BS over and over.

Lol oh please do tell what makes vamp good for tanking now? The undeath passive? Mist form? Lol I know it can't be drain.

Missed this nugget on the first goround. The answer, one answer, is the Ult, Mr. "oh please do tell" <vomit>. Because having tanked thousands of dungeons and other content, one thing learned is that only a very small % of that is "sweaty endgame" stuff in well-structured teams. Your experience may differ, you may always or mostly be in elite teams with skilled players pushing progression, achieves and score, but I'd bet not.

The vast majority of my tanking is via more casual guild teams and events, pugging up through vet non dlc for keys, etc, solo play-farming-questing, WB runs, normal trials, and not elite stuff, and I'll wager a vast majority of players' experience is similar. So, having flexible ways to cram more dps into a tank, and often as important, more self-healing is most welcome. WH on one bar for better teams with better dps, Vamp ult on the other for 80%-90% of content that players actually end up doing in this game.

But what really makes it good for tanking now is that it's just plain fun to have all your skills available while under the 20 second vamp buffs and appearance. As ESO is and never will be some ESPORT, fun is all that really matters, not playing "efficiency expert at Initech."

Fur_like_snow · July 2020

Vampire BiS for RP casuals.

Paradisius · July 2020

buttaface wrote: »

The last sentence above is a transparent fallacy, and the first two sentences are the kind of deck-stacking in which your posts to this thread go off the rails.

In terms of the ult, So you think an ult build that backbars vamp lord set (ak dragonguard weapons/jewelry and maelstrom staff front) for 164 ult that gives you:

an instant full heal... name how many skills in this game do that? I can't think of more than a few. THAT ALONE is worth 164 ult in itself IMO!

10,000 health stam and magicka pools... how many 5 set bonuses is that? would you wear a set that gave you 10k total of your major resource pool intermittently? Ask all those necro/bright throat/alfiq/clever alch folks that question, or are the prices that high for fun?

very powerful general sustained healing that can overcome the 600 wd/sd drain for a few seconds until toggling it back off and then on. This kind of toggled drain IS EXACTLY what is meant by "variety." Risk and reward (not "kiss/curse" some abject moron coined that atrocity up)

a 3000-4000 per second aoe dot that heals you. Hey look Ma, I'm surpassing total Staff Ult damage for 164 ult that HEALS ME! GO ME!

while ALL skills are still available allowing LOTS of tanking, dps and yes even healing "variety" options.. that yes, as others point out... YOU just haven't thought of them yet.

for 20 seconds

is "overpriced for what it does?" "Doesn't scream variety?" OK, then, you are welcome to your opinion.

I do like to add that backbarring Vampire Lord makes all non-Vamp abilities cost more, as well as increasing the other debuffs of Vampirism. So tacking onto that, and sacrificing a 5 pc bonus to boot for that type of play, its fine for what it does.

Aside from that, I see alot of posts back and forth and think there is something Id like to point out. I see quite often posts saying that "most of the playerbase is casual, so its fine" "Its unique, viability be damned" which are fair points if you dont really wanna push numbers, fine.

My concern is that its being used as a reason for it to not be improved. The whole "I can make it work, its not bad you just cant use it" may be valid to a degree, but if one has to go into such specific sets and playstyles to gimmick your way to victory using 1~3 of the abilities, shouldnt it be looked at again?

For example, Id really like Scion to have a lower ult cost, the insta heal is only really broken in pvp, and can have pvp adjustments made to it. I personally dont see a use in the insta-heal in PvE because well..90% of the ingame heal spells insta heal. Blood Frenzy is just an unhealthy skill overall, I want it reworked but I know it wont happen. So instead just adjust the health drain and/or weapon/spell damage values so it can be sustained at least a little more. (Practically killing myself in under 10 seconds with a HoT on me is pretty yikes..) Vampiric Drain just needs...anything really. Doesnt do enough damage to be a ranged attack, doesnt heal enough to be a ranged heal, costs nearly as much as an AoE..buffing the damage or the healing of the ability will put it into a category at least. Not some weird low heal and low damage mix. Mesmerize I feel would be a great stun for magicka classes if the "looking at you" check was gone, I know for rp reasons they did that. but magicka doesnt really have a reliable stun other than the destro staff (unless we go to class specifics, like streak lol) so having another enticing stun that you wont blow through magicka with to activate would be nice. Eviscerate gets alot of flak for being overtuned, but I think that for the limits it puts you against its fine, what needs to change is the Arterial Burst morph, something like adding a second attack as a "bleed" (magicka damage but, bleeding cuz Vampire claws) or turn it into a ranged spammable, thus creating a ranged option for Vampires. Mist Form I believe is the one skill thats fine, devs did really good with the changes to mist and I have nothing to add to it.

All in all, I personally do not want Vampirism to be mandatory for "sweaty" gameplay or whatever, but I want it to be impactful to use, we only get 6 skills with the line, why not make it to where all 6 skills feel enjoyable to use?

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Paradisius wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

The last sentence above is a transparent fallacy, and the first two sentences are the kind of deck-stacking in which your posts to this thread go off the rails.

In terms of the ult, So you think an ult build that backbars vamp lord set (ak dragonguard weapons/jewelry and maelstrom staff front) for 164 ult that gives you:

an instant full heal... name how many skills in this game do that? I can't think of more than a few. THAT ALONE is worth 164 ult in itself IMO!

10,000 health stam and magicka pools... how many 5 set bonuses is that? would you wear a set that gave you 10k total of your major resource pool intermittently? Ask all those necro/bright throat/alfiq/clever alch folks that question, or are the prices that high for fun?

very powerful general sustained healing that can overcome the 600 wd/sd drain for a few seconds until toggling it back off and then on. This kind of toggled drain IS EXACTLY what is meant by "variety." Risk and reward (not "kiss/curse" some abject moron coined that atrocity up)

a 3000-4000 per second aoe dot that heals you. Hey look Ma, I'm surpassing total Staff Ult damage for 164 ult that HEALS ME! GO ME!

while ALL skills are still available allowing LOTS of tanking, dps and yes even healing "variety" options.. that yes, as others point out... YOU just haven't thought of them yet.

for 20 seconds

is "overpriced for what it does?" "Doesn't scream variety?" OK, then, you are welcome to your opinion.

I do like to add that backbarring Vampire Lord makes all non-Vamp abilities cost more, as well as increasing the other debuffs of Vampirism. So tacking onto that, and sacrificing a 5 pc bonus to boot for that type of play, its fine for what it does.

Aside from that, I see alot of posts back and forth and think there is something Id like to point out. I see quite often posts saying that "most of the playerbase is casual, so its fine" "Its unique, viability be damned" which are fair points if you dont really wanna push numbers, fine.

My concern is that its being used as a reason for it to not be improved. The whole "I can make it work, its not bad you just cant use it" may be valid to a degree, but if one has to go into such specific sets and playstyles to gimmick your way to victory using 1~3 of the abilities, shouldnt it be looked at again?

For example, Id really like Scion to have a lower ult cost, the insta heal is only really broken in pvp, and can have pvp adjustments made to it. I personally dont see a use in the insta-heal in PvE because well..90% of the ingame heal spells insta heal. Blood Frenzy is just an unhealthy skill overall, I want it reworked but I know it wont happen. So instead just adjust the health drain and/or weapon/spell damage values so it can be sustained at least a little more. (Practically killing myself in under 10 seconds with a HoT on me is pretty yikes..) Vampiric Drain just needs...anything really. Doesnt do enough damage to be a ranged attack, doesnt heal enough to be a ranged heal, costs nearly as much as an AoE..buffing the damage or the healing of the ability will put it into a category at least. Not some weird low heal and low damage mix. Mesmerize I feel would be a great stun for magicka classes if the "looking at you" check was gone, I know for rp reasons they did that. but magicka doesnt really have a reliable stun other than the destro staff (unless we go to class specifics, like streak lol) so having another enticing stun that you wont blow through magicka with to activate would be nice. Eviscerate gets alot of flak for being overtuned, but I think that for the limits it puts you against its fine, what needs to change is the Arterial Burst morph, something like adding a second attack as a "bleed" (magicka damage but, bleeding cuz Vampire claws) or turn it into a ranged spammable, thus creating a ranged option for Vampires. Mist Form I believe is the one skill thats fine, devs did really good with the changes to mist and I have nothing to add to it.

All in all, I personally do not want Vampirism to be mandatory for "sweaty" gameplay or whatever, but I want it to be impactful to use, we only get 6 skills with the line, why not make it to where all 6 skills feel enjoyable to use?

Slotting doesn't make non-vamp abilities cost more. Being vamp is what makes them cost more, whether you slot Scion or not.

JMadFour · July 2020

Wildberryjack wrote: »

I'm at stage one. And vampire level one so don't have mesmerize unlocked.

Then fill out a bug report. Because that's not supposed to happen.

JMadFour · July 2020

Personally, I literally could not care less about "speed runs". I am not the sweaty target audience for that. I like being able to take my time and actually enjoy the content.

So Vampire works for me.

My single biggest wish for Vampire at the moment, is a Ranged Morph of Eviscerate. That would complete me.

SlimeBro1 · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Paradisius wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

The last sentence above is a transparent fallacy, and the first two sentences are the kind of deck-stacking in which your posts to this thread go off the rails.

In terms of the ult, So you think an ult build that backbars vamp lord set (ak dragonguard weapons/jewelry and maelstrom staff front) for 164 ult that gives you:

an instant full heal... name how many skills in this game do that? I can't think of more than a few. THAT ALONE is worth 164 ult in itself IMO!

10,000 health stam and magicka pools... how many 5 set bonuses is that? would you wear a set that gave you 10k total of your major resource pool intermittently? Ask all those necro/bright throat/alfiq/clever alch folks that question, or are the prices that high for fun?

very powerful general sustained healing that can overcome the 600 wd/sd drain for a few seconds until toggling it back off and then on. This kind of toggled drain IS EXACTLY what is meant by "variety." Risk and reward (not "kiss/curse" some abject moron coined that atrocity up)

a 3000-4000 per second aoe dot that heals you. Hey look Ma, I'm surpassing total Staff Ult damage for 164 ult that HEALS ME! GO ME!

while ALL skills are still available allowing LOTS of tanking, dps and yes even healing "variety" options.. that yes, as others point out... YOU just haven't thought of them yet.

for 20 seconds

is "overpriced for what it does?" "Doesn't scream variety?" OK, then, you are welcome to your opinion.

I do like to add that backbarring Vampire Lord makes all non-Vamp abilities cost more, as well as increasing the other debuffs of Vampirism. So tacking onto that, and sacrificing a 5 pc bonus to boot for that type of play, its fine for what it does.

Aside from that, I see alot of posts back and forth and think there is something Id like to point out. I see quite often posts saying that "most of the playerbase is casual, so its fine" "Its unique, viability be damned" which are fair points if you dont really wanna push numbers, fine.

My concern is that its being used as a reason for it to not be improved. The whole "I can make it work, its not bad you just cant use it" may be valid to a degree, but if one has to go into such specific sets and playstyles to gimmick your way to victory using 1~3 of the abilities, shouldnt it be looked at again?

For example, Id really like Scion to have a lower ult cost, the insta heal is only really broken in pvp, and can have pvp adjustments made to it. I personally dont see a use in the insta-heal in PvE because well..90% of the ingame heal spells insta heal. Blood Frenzy is just an unhealthy skill overall, I want it reworked but I know it wont happen. So instead just adjust the health drain and/or weapon/spell damage values so it can be sustained at least a little more. (Practically killing myself in under 10 seconds with a HoT on me is pretty yikes..) Vampiric Drain just needs...anything really. Doesnt do enough damage to be a ranged attack, doesnt heal enough to be a ranged heal, costs nearly as much as an AoE..buffing the damage or the healing of the ability will put it into a category at least. Not some weird low heal and low damage mix. Mesmerize I feel would be a great stun for magicka classes if the "looking at you" check was gone, I know for rp reasons they did that. but magicka doesnt really have a reliable stun other than the destro staff (unless we go to class specifics, like streak lol) so having another enticing stun that you wont blow through magicka with to activate would be nice. Eviscerate gets alot of flak for being overtuned, but I think that for the limits it puts you against its fine, what needs to change is the Arterial Burst morph, something like adding a second attack as a "bleed" (magicka damage but, bleeding cuz Vampire claws) or turn it into a ranged spammable, thus creating a ranged option for Vampires. Mist Form I believe is the one skill thats fine, devs did really good with the changes to mist and I have nothing to add to it.

All in all, I personally do not want Vampirism to be mandatory for "sweaty" gameplay or whatever, but I want it to be impactful to use, we only get 6 skills with the line, why not make it to where all 6 skills feel enjoyable to use?

Slotting doesn't make non-vamp abilities cost more. Being vamp is what makes them cost more, whether you slot Scion or not.

He's talking about the item set, Vampire Lord. Which the guy he is replying to mentions in their post....

SlimeBro1 · July 2020

JMadFour wrote: »

Personally, I literally could not care less about "speed runs". I am not the sweaty target audience for that. I like being able to take my time and actually enjoy the content.

So Vampire works for me.

My single biggest wish for Vampire at the moment, is a Ranged Morph of Eviscerate. That would complete me.

I just want to see Blood Frenzy replaced with a bat swarm gap closer.

That's all I require.

JMadFour · July 2020

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

He's talking about the item set, Vampire Lord. Which the guy he is replying to mentions in their post....

The Vampire Lord set is absolutely terrible for this iteration of Vampires. Why would anyone wear an armor set that magnifies the downsides of being a Vampire?

The 5 piece needs to be changed to something like -

"Grants a secondary effect to all Vampire skills"

redlink1979 · July 2020

I like the changes implemented. Vampire feels more unique. I love the fact that npcs refuse to talk to you at stage 4.

"Stop looking at my neck" made me laugh

Paradisius · July 2020

JMadFour wrote: »

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

He's talking about the item set, Vampire Lord. Which the guy he is replying to mentions in their post....

The Vampire Lord set is absolutely terrible for this iteration of Vampires. Why would anyone wear an armor set that magnifies the downsides of being a Vampire?

The 5 piece needs to be changed to something like -

"Grants a secondary effect to all Vampire skills"

They wear it to play around the ultimate and assumingly nothing else, because VLord does make the ult have a reasonable cost. Which highlights well how problematic some parts of Vampirism can be when you feel the need to wear an entire set piece that magnifies Vampire debuffs, all to have more cost reduction

Vevvev · July 2020

JMadFour wrote: »

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

He's talking about the item set, Vampire Lord. Which the guy he is replying to mentions in their post....

The Vampire Lord set is absolutely terrible for this iteration of Vampires. Why would anyone wear an armor set that magnifies the downsides of being a Vampire?

The 5 piece needs to be changed to something like -

"Grants a secondary effect to all Vampire skills"

Agreed, right now that set's only purpose in unlife is making the ultimate cheaper and even then its not worth it. The old vampire lord set was more useful than this current one and its just sad.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Paradisius wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

The last sentence above is a transparent fallacy, and the first two sentences are the kind of deck-stacking in which your posts to this thread go off the rails.

In terms of the ult, So you think an ult build that backbars vamp lord set (ak dragonguard weapons/jewelry and maelstrom staff front) for 164 ult that gives you:

an instant full heal... name how many skills in this game do that? I can't think of more than a few. THAT ALONE is worth 164 ult in itself IMO!

10,000 health stam and magicka pools... how many 5 set bonuses is that? would you wear a set that gave you 10k total of your major resource pool intermittently? Ask all those necro/bright throat/alfiq/clever alch folks that question, or are the prices that high for fun?

very powerful general sustained healing that can overcome the 600 wd/sd drain for a few seconds until toggling it back off and then on. This kind of toggled drain IS EXACTLY what is meant by "variety." Risk and reward (not "kiss/curse" some abject moron coined that atrocity up)

a 3000-4000 per second aoe dot that heals you. Hey look Ma, I'm surpassing total Staff Ult damage for 164 ult that HEALS ME! GO ME!

while ALL skills are still available allowing LOTS of tanking, dps and yes even healing "variety" options.. that yes, as others point out... YOU just haven't thought of them yet.

for 20 seconds

is "overpriced for what it does?" "Doesn't scream variety?" OK, then, you are welcome to your opinion.

I do like to add that backbarring Vampire Lord makes all non-Vamp abilities cost more, as well as increasing the other debuffs of Vampirism. So tacking onto that, and sacrificing a 5 pc bonus to boot for that type of play, its fine for what it does.

Aside from that, I see alot of posts back and forth and think there is something Id like to point out. I see quite often posts saying that "most of the playerbase is casual, so its fine" "Its unique, viability be damned" which are fair points if you dont really wanna push numbers, fine.

My concern is that its being used as a reason for it to not be improved. The whole "I can make it work, its not bad you just cant use it" may be valid to a degree, but if one has to go into such specific sets and playstyles to gimmick your way to victory using 1~3 of the abilities, shouldnt it be looked at again?

For example, Id really like Scion to have a lower ult cost, the insta heal is only really broken in pvp, and can have pvp adjustments made to it. I personally dont see a use in the insta-heal in PvE because well..90% of the ingame heal spells insta heal. Blood Frenzy is just an unhealthy skill overall, I want it reworked but I know it wont happen. So instead just adjust the health drain and/or weapon/spell damage values so it can be sustained at least a little more. (Practically killing myself in under 10 seconds with a HoT on me is pretty yikes..) Vampiric Drain just needs...anything really. Doesnt do enough damage to be a ranged attack, doesnt heal enough to be a ranged heal, costs nearly as much as an AoE..buffing the damage or the healing of the ability will put it into a category at least. Not some weird low heal and low damage mix. Mesmerize I feel would be a great stun for magicka classes if the "looking at you" check was gone, I know for rp reasons they did that. but magicka doesnt really have a reliable stun other than the destro staff (unless we go to class specifics, like streak lol) so having another enticing stun that you wont blow through magicka with to activate would be nice. Eviscerate gets alot of flak for being overtuned, but I think that for the limits it puts you against its fine, what needs to change is the Arterial Burst morph, something like adding a second attack as a "bleed" (magicka damage but, bleeding cuz Vampire claws) or turn it into a ranged spammable, thus creating a ranged option for Vampires. Mist Form I believe is the one skill thats fine, devs did really good with the changes to mist and I have nothing to add to it.

All in all, I personally do not want Vampirism to be mandatory for "sweaty" gameplay or whatever, but I want it to be impactful to use, we only get 6 skills with the line, why not make it to where all 6 skills feel enjoyable to use?

Slotting doesn't make non-vamp abilities cost more. Being vamp is what makes them cost more, whether you slot Scion or not.

He's talking about the item set, Vampire Lord. Which the guy he is replying to mentions in their post....

Thank you for clarifying, I misunderstood and thought he was referring to the transformation.

In which case, yes I would agree that Vamp Lord set would be a bad fit as it currently is.

Nova_J · July 2020

buttaface wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

New vamp is great, not just for mag dps but for lots of tanking and solo builds. Also, nothing styles better than a max size height Nord after the ult transform, straight from Pick of Destiny. Had written a long flame about elitists jerks whining whenever dps is made easier and more sustainable in this casual game for casual players, not an ESPORT, but NM, they wouldn't admit this is what they are really griping about anyway, and would keep rationalizing some BS over and over.

Lol oh please do tell what makes vamp good for tanking now? The undeath passive? Mist form? Lol I know it can't be drain.

Missed this nugget on the first goround. The answer, one answer, is the Ult, Mr. "oh please do tell" <vomit>. Because having tanked thousands of dungeons and other content, one thing learned is that only a very small % of that is "sweaty endgame" stuff in well-structured teams. Your experience may differ, you may always or mostly be in elite teams with skilled players pushing progression, achieves and score, but I'd bet not.

The vast majority of my tanking is via more casual guild teams and events, pugging up through vet non dlc for keys, etc, solo play-farming-questing, WB runs, normal trials, and not elite stuff, and I'll wager a vast majority of players' experience is similar. So, having flexible ways to cram more dps into a tank, and often as important, more self-healing is most welcome. WH on one bar for better teams with better dps, Vamp ult on the other for 80%-90% of content that players actually end up doing in this game.

But what really makes it good for tanking now is that it's just plain fun to have all your skills available while under the 20 second vamp buffs and appearance. As ESO is and never will be some ESPORT, fun is all that really matters, not playing "efficiency expert at Initech."

........ohhhh so you mean the type of content that you can run just about anything and get through just fine? The type of content that you dont really have to take seriously? Content that you dont even need a real tank for??

"The new vamp skills are just fine cuz I can take'em into normal trials and kill worldbosses!!!!!" Lmfaoo get out of here man 😂.
And then you actually tried to say that ult is good when put on the VL set??? Maybe if you wanna mess around for [snip] and giggles yea. But you are sacrificing an entire 5pc set just to fix an ult that doesnt even provide much benefit.

On a serious note though, is it so wrong that I want vamps to be viable in ALL content? Not just the content that I could complete with green armor on? I actually tank vet dlcs dungeons mostly, so I'm not going to run anything that's going to hinder my team too much. The vamp skills provide no benefit to the team, the skill line is selfish. Which would be fine if at least allowed me to be a better tank (not a fake dps like you are talking about), but it doesnt. The new skill line is for dps,no thought went into it for healers or tanks at all, dont kid yourself into thinking this skill line is even remotely close to fine. Anytime you have to waste an entire 5pc set to make one skill viable there is a serious issue, without VL set that ult cost like 280+ at stage 4. That's because the skill line was designed to have 40% cost reduction at stage 4, but they nerfed it a week before going live. You are wearing that set because of last minute decision making man lol.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

Jeremy · July 2020

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Selminus wrote: »

When I first tried it last year 2 things seemed really off to me. I needed to feed to become LESS of a vampire and there were only 2 active skills. This overhaul is spot on. I just murdered some chick sweeping a stable bc I was about to drop below stage four, it was super.

I like the new Vampire as well. My main character is a lot more fun and interesting to play as a result of it.

Be prepared for a lot of disagreement though, because a lot of people don't like it for some reason. I'm not sure why, because it was nothing but an improvement over the old Vampire.

Have you not read any of the vampire threads during or after PTS or even the thread you’re replying in? It’s spelled out pretty clearly what the issues are.

I do find it interesting he is claiming to have 'no idea' why people are disagreeing about the vamp rework, in a thread full of people that are explaining their issues with it.

O:

Because nothing in this thread effectively explains why the new Vampire tree isn't better than the old Vampire tree.

Pretty simple.

So I'm not sure what you find so "interesting" about it. Some people are dissatisfied with it and have argued why. But that's a lot different than actually explaining why the new tree is worse off than the old one. And I know why they haven't been able explain it. Because it isn't.

But people have explained why it is worse.

Are we reading the same thread? Have you not seen all of the other threads made about this topic?

They have attempted to explain it. But very little of it has made any sense to me as to why the old Vampire was somehow better than the new one - at least in terms of actual game play - which is what I meant in my post. Perhaps I could have been a little more clear about that in hindsight.

Well the abilities are for the most part not that great yes we got a new set of abilities but they could have been better. We lost stamina/magika regeneration and a lot of the perks seem to be geared to stealth and the abilities are geared to magika dps. Now this would be alright if we didn't have so many downsides like non vampire abilities costing more.

At stage 1 the ability cost increase is a measily -3% and easily managed. And since using Vampire skills no longer rapidly increase your stage it's easy now to stay at stage 1 and still make regular use of your Vampire abilities. So it's only a "downside" if you choose to make it one in exchange for the higher stage passives.

Now sure, players who only used Vamprism for a skin or as a passive regeneration are probably not going to like these changes. For anyone who actually wants to use the skill line though it was a solid improvement and I don't see how it can be effectively argued to be otherwise.

This doesn't mean there is not room for improvement. But the old system sucks compared to this new one IMHO. There is just no comparison. These forums were filled prior to Greymoor with players annoyed that they had to become Vampire for the regen passives. Now they don't. Sounds like a win/win to me.

JMadFour · July 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

At stage 1 the ability cost increase is a measily -3% and easily managed. And since using Vampire skills no longer rapidly increase your stage it's easy now to stay at stage 1 and still make regular use of your Vampire abilities. So it's only a "downside" if you choose to make it one in exchange for the higher stage passives.

At Stage 1, It's easily offset by a basic increase in Magicka regen, and outright eliminated altogether if you are an Imperial or a Sorcerer.

Now sure, players who only used Vamprism for a skin or as a passive regeneration are probably not going to like these changes. For anyone who actually wants to use the skill line though it was a solid improvement and I don't see how it can be effectively argued to be otherwise.

This doesn't mean there is not room for improvement. But the old system sucks compared to this new one IMHO. There is just no comparison. These forums were filled prior to Greymoor with players annoyed that they had to become Vampire for the regen passives. Now they don't. Sounds like a win/win to me.

Completely agreed with this.

There is definitely room for improvement, but I wholeheartedly disagree with people who say it is worse now than it was before. That's just not true at all.

Sanguinor2 · July 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

This doesn't mean there is not room for improvement. But the old system sucks compared to this new one IMHO. There is just no comparison. These forums were filled prior to Greymoor with players annoyed that they had to become Vampire for the regen passives. Now they don't. Sounds like a win/win to me.

Now they have to become a vampire for the spammable to be competitive on mag pve builds instead. One could live without 10% recovery. Blood for blood however is not only very strong in damage but it also eliminates any need for sustain whatsoever because it costs health.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

This doesn't mean there is not room for improvement. But the old system sucks compared to this new one IMHO. There is just no comparison. These forums were filled prior to Greymoor with players annoyed that they had to become Vampire for the regen passives. Now they don't. Sounds like a win/win to me.

Now they have to become a vampire for the spammable to be competitive on mag pve builds instead. One could live without 10% recovery. Blood for blood however is not only very strong in damage but it also eliminates any need for sustain whatsoever because it costs health.

Not true at all.

Builds were successful without BFB before it even existed. Those builds don't suddenly become invalid because BFB exists. If you're speaking PVE, roll without it and keep owning trials like you were before.

There's also the fact that BFB is melee and costs health, meaning you're making your character insanely vulnerable by spamming it in melee combat through AOE effects, lost aggro, or anything else.

I would lose no sleep if BFB was changed. I don't even slot it on my vamps because I don't like it for a number of reasons.

But to say it is mandatory is just hyperbole.

Sanguinor2 · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Not true at all.

Builds were successful without BFB before it even existed. Those builds don't suddenly become invalid because BFB exists. If you're speaking PVE, roll without it and keep owning trials like you were before.

There's also the fact that BFB is melee and costs health, meaning you're making your character insanely vulnerable by spamming it in melee combat through AOE effects, lost aggro, or anything else.

I would lose no sleep if BFB was changed. I don't even slot it on my vamps because I don't like it for a number of reasons.

But to say it is mandatory is just hyperbole.

I did say that it is mandatory to be competitve on mag pve dps builds not mandatory everywhere. And it is. Just look at esologs and tell me how many of the highest damage magicka builds are not running blood for blood. It costing health is one of its benefits in trials because it eliminates any need for sustain from the equation.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Not true at all.

Builds were successful without BFB before it even existed. Those builds don't suddenly become invalid because BFB exists. If you're speaking PVE, roll without it and keep owning trials like you were before.

There's also the fact that BFB is melee and costs health, meaning you're making your character insanely vulnerable by spamming it in melee combat through AOE effects, lost aggro, or anything else.

I would lose no sleep if BFB was changed. I don't even slot it on my vamps because I don't like it for a number of reasons.

But to say it is mandatory is just hyperbole.

I did say that it is mandatory to be competitve on mag pve dps builds not mandatory everywhere. And it is. Just look at esologs and tell me how many of the highest damage magicka builds are not running blood for blood. It costing health is one of its benefits in trials because it eliminates any need for sustain from the equation.

I dont care about logs where everyone runs the same thing

Tell me how BFB existing means you now deal less damage than you did before

Sanguinor2 · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I dont care about logs where everyone runs the same thing

Tell me how BFB existing means you now deal less damage than you did before

Tell me rather how I achieve equal dps and sustain compared to someone who uses BFB when I dont use it in a trial context.

Its not about BFB existing meaning that I deal less damage than before, its about BFB existing meaning that I deal less damage than anyone that uses it while having worse sustain. If I dont use it Im actively gimping myself compared to all of my group members and other groups.

Its fine if you dont care about logs. But since I do vet hm trials and trifecta achievements I do care.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I dont care about logs where everyone runs the same thing

Tell me how BFB existing means you now deal less damage than you did before

Tell me rather how I achieve equal dps and sustain compared to someone who uses BFB when I dont use it in a trial context.

Its not about BFB existing meaning that I deal less damage than before, its about BFB existing meaning that I deal less damage than anyone that uses it while having worse sustain. If I dont use it Im actively gimping myself compared to all of my group members and other groups.

Its fine if you dont care about logs. But since I do vet hm trials and trifecta achievements I do care.

Except you were able to do all that stuff before BFB. BFB existing does not change that fact.

I'm not against changing the skill. I dislike it as a vamp user even, and I'd be lying if I said I never slot it, but I generally try not to because as I said, I dont like it for a number of reasons

But it existing and you not using it is literally holding you back from 0 content and 0 accomplishment. You can still do all the vet hm trials that you did before, because BFB existing has not reduced your performance or preventing you from achieving the same things you were already doing in even the least bit.