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Why are so few pvpers?
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Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭Taking the lack of support from ZoS as a given, what are the PvPers doing to grow their own garden?
How many are trying to mentor those few dabblers? Picking up those "LFG" players and trying to integrate them? Does it happen...kinda hit or miss in my dabbling exp.
More often than not, its nothing but ball zergs, "get gud scrub", "just look at the map"
But the most annoying, entire map is one color and the gate keeps are getting camped. Thats just poor planning on that alliance's part.
My point? You should be trying to build your communities and not just begging for more events to funnel fresh meat into the grinder.6 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The dedicated PvP population has been decreasing every year due to increasingly worse server performance, bad PvP balance changes, a complete lack of PvP direction from the devs, no new PvP content for 3+ years, taking away grouping from BGs, etc.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
Half of the intrigue of PvP is scheming up new builds that use sets that you would never even dream to make use of in PvE. It is an intellectually rewarding pursuit to take a build from theorycrafting to domination at its intended purpose.
Most above-average PvP'ers have thought far more about their builds than PvE'ers who typically just copy whatever the meta hotness is at any given time. And that's understandable because the meta in PvE is the mathematical best at damage over time whereas in PvP defining what goal you are pursuing for your build is far more open-ended and has to take into account, at the very least, a mix of offense and defense because PvP opponents actually fight back.
So yes, a PvE player wearing full Divines and 16k Health will get deleted in PvP by a player with a better PvP build. And that's as it should be. I can't walk into vHoF either wearing Mark of the Pariah, Titanborn Strength, and Bloodspawn and expect to be very effective in the group.
And PvE'ers can be just as mouthy and toxic as any PvP'er. To suggest otherwise is to promote a misconception.
While this is possible. Even when back when I queued solo as a tank to help the GF I only got a hate whisper once because they group kicked him for being a jerk.
The issue with PvP, especially in Cyrodiil, is there is a large number of players out there we interact with. I laugh at how many times I get hate whispers from players calling me a loser because I killed them. I do not think I have experienced a random hate whisper for such a silly reason in PvE.2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why I don't PVP much:
1. No one groups up in Cyro or IC
2. Lag or desync's cause me to die before I can react to attacks
3. Unkillable everything out there and I don't give a crud enough to make a whole build just to be able to kill people in Cyro.4 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Why I don't PVP much:
1. No one groups up in Cyro or IC
2. Lag or desync's cause me to die before I can react to attacks
3. Unkillable everything out there and I don't give a crud enough to make a whole build just to be able to kill people in Cyro.
#3 for me.
I don't believe in sacrificing everything that makes my character individual and personalized just for the sake of getting some kills in PVP with the same impen / stun / burst / execute gameplay from everyone in PVP4 -
Maxdevil✭✭✭I think it’s because pve looks more appealing to players there’s often news dlc, it’s easier for newbie you can complete normal dungeon without really any build and you can make progression to veteran content later... in pvp if you don’t go in no cp you will find it really hard to compete with max cp player if you are under 810cp. in pvp there’s a lot of experienced player that can kill you fast if you don’t have a good build and played pvp before. I would say pvp is like the « endgame » of eso"Maxdevil knows much, and tells some. Maxdevil knows many things others do not."
Pc-Na1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are several reasons why ppl dont realy like PvP.
Performance: This is an issue and there is little to say about it. Everyone knows about it and its hard to tell if this problem is even solvable.
Balance: Thats one of the bigger reasons. There is a single balance and PvP is a Buff/Debuff layer on it. Given that there are effectively 3 PvP modes (bgs, open/mass pvp with cp and open/mass pvp without cp) it would be needed to have seperated balance for each of them to make sure tehy work as expected. Especially for BGs players are more or less forced into meta builds to be able to compete.
Rewards: This might be the biggest issue. Players play parts of the game because they want the rewards and feel rewarded. There are PvP ranks that return skill points but turn into hamster wheels very fast giving players little feeling of reward. Then there is AP as currency which has essentially the same issue when it comes to pricing. For BGs tehre are style pages but they are also rarely rewarded. All this could use some improvement to give players a feeling that there time is rewarded.1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't find PvP particularly entertaining. I have enjoyed being in PvP guilds for a month or two, but I mostly just used them to level skill lines. Ditched my last one because the raid leader often made things un-fun, so what is the point. I can get with intensity in a Trial that is hard to complete, but Cyrodiil for me is just the same thing day after day after day.
I mostly play through content I haven't played through yet. If I had more time I would get more serious about trials. If I had gaming time beyond that, I would play more single player games.
I came to this game because of the IP. I am an elder scrolls fan. I don't play MMORPGs. I also don't play any other PvP games. I love ESO, but it is because of the IP more than the fact that it is an MMO.3 -
DR4GONFL1✭✭✭✭So I haven't been in pvp zone in awhile but went in for the event... 5 loads screens in just a couple of minutes so I backed out and tried again and the same thing.0 -
NekoN3ko✭✭✭Performance is the biggest issue. When your skills don't fire off, unable to bar swap, pot, rubber band, get disconnected back into a lengthy que it's very demoralizing aka unplayable.2
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Vanagrand✭✭✭@Vanagrand , I know a few Pact PvP Guilds @ PC-EU NoCP. If you're interested I'll send you a PM.
Have you tried it via GuildFinder btw?
I would be more than happy. Thank you1 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Six years of terrible game performance, six years of pvp neglect by Zeni leadership.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche2 -
sigsergv✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
6 -
Achronokey✭✭I just found so extrange why so few people pvp on this game. Been in 2 spanish guilds, both with like a 400 people in it, around 50 actives on peak hours, still im THE ONLY ONE who plays PVP. Mostly Bgs and IC becouse of that. The rest just go to Cyro to do the daylies and same at IC.
Is the same in other comunitties? Do you know any Pact faction active on PvP on EUPC?
Because this game does not have competitive pvp activities for solo/duo/3/4 man groups. All we have left today is no-cp BG for SOLO QUEUE ONLY, no cp Sirodil IC and CP Sirodil IC. Lets take our time and examine them?
NO-CP battlegrounds
Before i go on i would like to say - i like battlegrounds in this game, i rly do, but they sure have problems- 1. U cant play BG with ur friend(s)
- 2. U cant choose ur role before queue leaving team with 4 dd's to suffer from team who lucky enough to have healer or maybe even semi tank in a group. MOBA game HotS uses some interesting rules for matches where u dont draft and just go on with ur chosen-inqueue character. If u go as a support or healer u would face support or healer vs u, same for tanks.
- 3. For some reasons, which i cant understand, matches start even if some team dont have enough players. Sometimes u play as 3 man vs 4vs4 sometimes as 2. Other times u see same problem in opposing teams
- 4. Matches do get backfilled in order to "solve" the problem when u dont have 4 man at the begging or someone leaves. Which means when u queue u have good chance to get into ongoing match on a losing side( because u know thay either had not enough members or someone ragequited). Usually u lose that match and get VERY angry at ZOS( i know i do)
- 5. There is no leaderboard, u cant see ur progress or ur MMR.
- 6. U can get unlucky on crazy king when flags spawn in a F...N raw under 1 team but never another.
- 7. Im not sure about next, maybe my mmr is just to low for now, but the vast majority of PVPers ive seen so far just going yolo in without any thoughts or tactic. People do not come on BG to win, they come to score some frags and get some fun.
1 - 1. U cant play BG with ur friend(s)
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Burtan✭✭✭✭
I mean...that's probably because I'm pretty sure it's against forum rules to spread the details of an exploit, because then obviously the more people who know about it, the more people will use it. There's no need to go into the details of how something can be exploited, since even if it's not against the rules to do so, I'm certain there've been cases where posts detailing things have been edited to remove said details.I keep seeing people mention this but no one wants to elaborate or say why these items are buggy or exploitable. Also no mention of them in reported bugs or being discussed anywhere outside of a small group of PvPers bemoaning their existence. Yet supposedly people have an issue with how they are 'exploited', but rather than report or expose that, they just mention it with a nudge and a wink 🤷
Now in the case of bugs, that's hit or miss. Bugs that can't be exploited and thus turned into exploits should certainly be explained in detail so the devs can fix them. Details of exploits belong in privated videos and ticket reports to minimize the spread and use of them.
I'm not sure if it was you or another player I've seen this sentiment from, but I'll say the same thing here I said when I saw it before; this comparison is horrible. In endgame raid groups you have twelve slots to fill, a very limited number. People wanting to clear the harder trials are therefore obviously going to want to get in experienced players with good gear to maximize their chances of getting through those trials.that's like saying endgame PvE raid groups should take my 20k dps PvP build with them to vet trials.
In PvP, the player cap you can have on your 'team' is much higher than twelve. In PvP, you don't have complicated mechanics that people need to be familiar with that could wipe your whole group in seconds. In PvE you can work your way through harder content, you can build up to stuff if that's what you want to do, and it tends to be easier to do. In PvP, there are people with your mindset that 'noobs aren't worth training or helping get better', and do you know what that does? It makes it frustrating for people to really learn PvP and get the hang of it, because people treat the less experienced players like garbage who don't have the right to be there. And that, in turn, doesn't do anything to make most people want to keep PvPing.
Granted this isn't a problem exclusive to PvP, there are players in PvE who are just as bad, but when we have a thread go up asking PvEers to "stay out of Grey Host if you're just getting tickets" during one of only two PvP events, what kind of message do you think that sends to those players? One of the reasons for this event is to 'encourage' PvEers to try Cyrodiil (and BG/IC I suppose), and while some people in that thread were suggesting using a less populated campaign if they wanted to avoid potentially getting killed by other players, there were plenty of others who had it in their heads that Grey Host belongs exclusively to PvPers. If you want more people coming from PvE to PvP with, maybe don't tell them that they're essentially useless and just taking up space when they come to take part in an event. Even if someone is just coming for tickets, there's a chance they might decide to give the PvP itself a try, so long as they aren't made to feel like they aren't welcome just because regular PvPers think they have more rights to be in any given campaign.
Maybe I should have made it clear I was referring to Smallscale and mid scale groups which are where the more challenging content in PvP lies. These groups search for outnumbered fights that become increasingly more difficult patch after patch and therefore cannot just accept any old player who types LFG, nor will they have room because they intend to be outnumbered.
PvPers dont think any campaign belongs purely to them, from the moment you engage in Cyrodiil you are in fact PvPing. There is no shortage in any way of large 24 man AvA groups that pick up players who type lfg and if there isn't a group with open slots, make one and choose an objective.
The skill gap in PvP remains rather large due to a lack of means for less experienced players to improve since Cyrodiil as a zone incentivises running keep to keep with huge blobs of players and relying purely on sheer numbers rather than ability.
Until something is done to incentivise playing in smaller groups and spreading out more this issue will never change but that's a whole other topic.
PvPers aren't to blame.1 -
LightningWitch✭✭✭I've tried PVP several times, and unfortunately, the same issues keep coming up time and again to the point it's just not a fun area to be in.
I do not dislike PVP, but I truly hate the way ZoS implemented it. The skill level of players is so wide, almost any person without the gear and the CP is just dead. There is no defending against a person coming in with the 6+ years of work they did to acquire the sets they earned and now use with efficiency.
As a low level player, this is a frustrating experience, because death means taking us so far away from the fight, it's just not worth trying to ride back to.
This leave the only thing left for low level players to do: dailies and achievement hunting.
It's bad enough players have expressed their frustrations about PVP over the years, but what's really dreadful is the developers seem to care nothing about fixing the issues with PVP.
The entire game's problem is solely on the poor design of trying to get a single character to play both PVE and PVP, and until this is fixed, nothing is going to change.
That's a shame, because ESO has the potential to be one of the best MMOs out there.
I'm pretty confident I understand what the development team is facing to fix it, but the reality is they need to, even if it means breaking a huge part of the game.
PVP should be treated as "DLC" in the manner that it shouldn't be part of the base game at all. If players want to PVP, they can go to the DLC area, set up their skills for their character, suit up with weapons and armor only available in PVP, and kill each other.
2 -
SolidusPrime✭✭✭✭I used to love PvPing but haven't done it in probably a year or more at this point. The performance issues were annoying but I dealt with them. It was everyone leaving BECAUSE of the performance that was too much for me. I would join and try to find a group and there wouldn't be anything. Every day pretty much. I felt like I was wasting my time going to Cyrodiil.
Forum posts and in-game chat make it sounds like it's only gotten worse and worse so I haven't been back since.0 -
ChimpyChumpy✭✭✭Totally agree with master spatula.
The top end pvpers that stream or post videos seem nice enough but if they do nothing to lead new players in actual content-pvp groups they are basically [snip].
Every time I see these mad elite vids MaGzOrc destroyzzzz it's just a dude in IC attacking pvers trying to take down an IC boss. Sorry man not impressed at all. Or a tedious 1vX where someone runs around a tree for 12 minutes.
[Edited for Inappropriate Content]Edited by Psiion on July 9, 2020 8:23PM4 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭Actually with impen changes and mythic items, there are endless successful build set-ups for pvp right now, gearing up for pvp is not difficult, plenty of overland and crafted sets are viable and base game dungeons (which are easy) still has good monster sets to fit your build, you don't need to grind for months to get gear, most of the gear can be bought in guild traders and right now you can get weapons from normal dragonstar arena to your build.
Gearing up for pvp is very casual friendly, also you can technically get monster sets from golden vendor without even needing to own dungeon dlc.
I would say if you spend a month pvping everyday solo and learning from your mistakes and tweaking your build, you could reach 80-90% of your skill potential in a month and be a decent player.4 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are less PvP players because the zergs failed to maintain proper social distancing and all caught the Knahaten Flu. :'(
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Burtan✭✭✭✭ChimpyChumpy wrote: »Totally agree with master spatula.
The top end pvpers that stream or post videos seem nice enough but if they do nothing to lead new players in actual content-pvp groups they are basically [snip].
Every time I see these mad elite vids MaGzOrc destroyzzzz it's just a dude in IC attacking pvers trying to take down an IC boss. Sorry man not impressed at all. Or a tedious 1vX where someone runs around a tree for 12 minutes.
[Edited for Inappropriate Content]
There are plenty of top PvP players who share advice and builds through youtube videos and discords. There isn't much you can do outside of that since leading a 20 man group of new players means you will be riding keep to keep with a massive blob of other players which is not an environment in which you are likely to get better at PvP.
More players need to get out there in small to mid scale groups and learn how to play as a team, cross heal, combine dmg/ultimates and challenge themselves if they want to improve.
There is no incentive to do this right now which is a shame.Edited by Psiion on July 9, 2020 8:24PM3 -
crjs1✭✭✭✭✭For me as a dabbler in PvP over the last 4 or so years I don’t enjoy it much because:
1: performance issues which seem to be getting worse and worse
2: the skill gap. Getting killed in seconds over and over again just isn’t fun for people trying to get a hang of PvP. While some are saying there is great build diversity, I just don’t see it.. And having a sub optimal build in PvP is just sooooo unforgiving. I really enjoy the RPG element of ESO so the need to basically play the meta to be even vaguely competitive is just really off putting. The no CP campaign does help with this a bit but is rarely well populated.
3. Toxicity. While of course there is toxicity in PvE especially dungeons etc it’s a whole over level in PvP, with noobs just laughed at and abused... no wonder people don’t hang about.
4. Lack of new content. It’s been years since there has been meaningful new PvP so it’s getting stale4 -
crjs1✭✭✭✭✭5. Meant to add, lack of mechanisms to swap build load outs quickly... It just makes no sense to be that ZOS haven’t added in build load outs... I spend 90% of my time in PvE but when I do fancy a quick half hour blast at PvP I need to go change all my CPs, skills, morphs, gear... which just a pain.1
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Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »For me, PVP is the worst part of this game.
I dabble in it, but for the most part it is simply not enjoyable. You have to have a very specific PVP style build in order to even have a chance, and that's not how I enjoy playing RPG's.
I generally disagree with the idea of a specific build. There are far more options in pvp and roles than pve. Much of it is understanding the class. Yet there are huge meta shifts that make it hard to stay competitive. So you can have a viable build and insanely strong niche builds, but there are sets that are too good to pass up. For example, why use soulshine giving 400 dmg to channels when there are sets that have more dmg, and give it for all dmg. Or sword singer and only boost wpn dmg when there are sets that will do more dmg for all abilities. They need to stop making sets stronger and stronger and think more diverse or unique abilities.
Again, I know their shift has been to normalize numbers, yet release after release they shift meta and sets so much it just gets old.1 -
Burtan✭✭✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »For me, PVP is the worst part of this game.
I dabble in it, but for the most part it is simply not enjoyable. You have to have a very specific PVP style build in order to even have a chance, and that's not how I enjoy playing RPG's.
I generally disagree with the idea of a specific build. There are far more options in pvp and roles than pve. Much of it is understanding the class. Yet there are huge meta shifts that make it hard to stay competitive. So you can have a viable build and insanely strong niche builds, but there are sets that are too good to pass up. For example, why use soulshine giving 400 dmg to channels when there are sets that have more dmg, and give it for all dmg. Or sword singer and only boost wpn dmg when there are sets that will do more dmg for all abilities. They need to stop making sets stronger and stronger and think more diverse or unique abilities.
Again, I know their shift has been to normalize numbers, yet release after release they shift meta and sets so much it just gets old.
*cough New Moon Acolyte *cough0 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭For me as a dabbler in PvP over the last 4 or so years I don’t enjoy it much because:
1: performance issues which seem to be getting worse and worse
2: the skill gap. Getting killed in seconds over and over again just isn’t fun for people trying to get a hang of PvP. While some are saying there is great build diversity, I just don’t see it.. And having a sub optimal build in PvP is just sooooo unforgiving. I really enjoy the RPG element of ESO so the need to basically play the meta to be even vaguely competitive is just really off putting. The no CP campaign does help with this a bit but is rarely well populated.
3. Toxicity. While of course there is toxicity in PvE especially dungeons etc it’s a whole over level in PvP, with noobs just laughed at and abused... no wonder people don’t hang about.
4. Lack of new content. It’s been years since there has been meaningful new PvP so it’s getting stale
Alright, I haven't done any competitive pve since 2017 and I have taken long breaks in between playing ESO, but as far as I remember, all stamina dps classes from which I remember for end game vet/tiral dps used dualwield/bow and medium armor with major brutality/savagery potions and you can count on your fingers which how many viable sets are usable for it.
For example in pvp, for playing a solo build which means you can defend yourself and kill others by your own skills, for the stamina based classes there are viable weapon setups such as 2h/snb, 2h/bow, 2h/dual wield, dual wield/bow, dual wield/snb, dual wield/dual wield etc and list can still go on. Speaking for armor you could use both 5heavy or 5medium, or 7medium, 7heavy, 5 medium 1heavy 1light etc, different poisons and potions, different skill set ups depending do you want more burst,survivability etc and with these set-ups you could be successful in pvp and hold your own.
There are no cookie cutters builds in PvP unlike the PvE which does have bis set ups for maximal dps.
I could name at least 20 good viable meta sets for different classes and you can combine all of them in different ways and 80% of these sets can be bought from guild traders.
So how there is no build diversity?
Oh and not to mention you don't need to run all 7 impen traits anymore.
Look at KristoferESO dude is theorycrafting thousands of pvp builds and have good success playing them.
Edited by West93 on July 9, 2020 2:54PM2 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
Not true, there is always a place for inexperienced players. Every zerg is filled with them. Just type lfg in chat and follow crown. As you get better start playing in smaller groups to gain more skill and in time you will be able to solo.
1 -
dominguero96✭✭✭@Vanagrand Lets just say the spanish community in this game is small (thanks to ZOS inacction in that regard) and that it represents the game population: PVP is a minority.
However, I'm part of a guild that does almost every content. From the 400-450 we are, at least 10-20 people do PVP regularly, although we'll take a small break after the PVP event.
If you want to join, look for Fuego PC-EU in the guild finder. We accept any alliance but for PVP we play with DC. If you are a red player, we can direct you to other spanish pvp guilds. Sadly, we don't know any yellow pvp spanish guilds.0 -
sigsergv✭✭✭✭Not true, there is always a place for inexperienced players. Every zerg is filled with them. Just type lfg in chat and follow crown. As you get better start playing in smaller groups to gain more skill and in time you will be able to solo.
Zergs are not viable at all, usually they are destroyed by 2-3 experienced players easily. When you trying to kill one player who restores his/her HP instantly doing damage at the same time and sprinting around with insane speed for 30 minutes — it's just awful. When you alone you are dead. When you in zerg (but there are no zergs sometimes) you are dead too, not in 3 but in 10 minutes. You literally required to use BiS gear/skills/classes because otherwise you just die instantly.0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example1