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Bots - Are they really after boss loot? Or something else?
Fina
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Many people have complained that bots are in the dungeons, farming boss loot to make money. I probably even complained too. ZeniMax plans to combat this by putting a timer on boss loot. But I think loot is only a part of the problem.
By watching these bots in dungeons, even up to the level 40 dungeons, I began thinking "Are these bots really only after loot?"
I often see similarly equipped people in dungeons and past level 40 they are always in groups of 2 or 3...but usually not more. Their names are not totally ridiculous like "wyhgdga", but rather names that might be considered normal. If they were just after loot, why not have a name like "ehehtetg"?
The reason is, I believe, that these bots are / will someday be real people's characters. They are power leveling off the boss. Or they are paying someone to power level them. The loot is just a bonus. They go from dungeon to dungeon until they get to level 50.
A bot probably couldn't power level as effectively outside because it would have to run around and find enemies and others could take them. But in a dungeon there is just 1 enemy, bots are guaranteed a good amount of exp, and the respawn rate is fast. This sounds like a good power-leveling strategy to me (if you are sleeping or at work / school).
So, what's my point? My point is that putting on a loot timer is not going stop the bots because that is not the only reason they are doing that. An EXP timer might also be a good idea (or something like that). Real players can go out into the world and find other ways to get EXP. It won't be as easy for bots.
What do you think?
By watching these bots in dungeons, even up to the level 40 dungeons, I began thinking "Are these bots really only after loot?"
I often see similarly equipped people in dungeons and past level 40 they are always in groups of 2 or 3...but usually not more. Their names are not totally ridiculous like "wyhgdga", but rather names that might be considered normal. If they were just after loot, why not have a name like "ehehtetg"?
The reason is, I believe, that these bots are / will someday be real people's characters. They are power leveling off the boss. Or they are paying someone to power level them. The loot is just a bonus. They go from dungeon to dungeon until they get to level 50.
A bot probably couldn't power level as effectively outside because it would have to run around and find enemies and others could take them. But in a dungeon there is just 1 enemy, bots are guaranteed a good amount of exp, and the respawn rate is fast. This sounds like a good power-leveling strategy to me (if you are sleeping or at work / school).
So, what's my point? My point is that putting on a loot timer is not going stop the bots because that is not the only reason they are doing that. An EXP timer might also be a good idea (or something like that). Real players can go out into the world and find other ways to get EXP. It won't be as easy for bots.
What do you think?
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SirJesto✭✭✭Many people have complained that bots are in the dungeons, farming boss loot to make money. I probably even complained too. ZeniMax plans to combat this by putting a timer on boss loot. But I think loot is only a part of the problem.
By watching these bots in dungeons, even up to the level 40 dungeons, I began thinking "Are these bots really only after loot?"
I often see similarly equipped people in dungeons and past level 40 they are always in groups of 2 or 3...but usually not more. Their names are not totally ridiculous like "wyhgdga", but rather names that might be considered normal. If they were just after loot, why not have a name like "ehehtetg"?
The reason is, I believe, that these bots are / will someday be real people's characters. They are power leveling off the boss. Or they are paying someone to power level them. The loot is just a bonus. They go from dungeon to dungeon until they get to level 50.
A bot probably couldn't power level as effectively outside because it would have to run around and find enemies and others could take them. But in a dungeon there is just 1 enemy, bots are guaranteed a good amount of exp, and the respawn rate is fast. This sounds like a good power-leveling strategy to me (if you are sleeping or at work / school).
So, what's my point? My point is that putting on a loot timer is not going stop the bots because that is not the only reason they are doing that. An EXP timer might also be a good idea (or something like that). Real players can go out into the world and find other ways to get EXP. It won't be as easy for bots.
What do you think?
Right on man. Sounds like it could be true. Power level toon, sell toon, sell loot from leveled toon to get gold to sell to someone else.....4 -
DrywFiltiarn✭✭✭Part of a solution could also be to explicitly require to reset the instance to do it again, requiring you to move out, clear all the trash again and work your way towards the boss. This will already complicate the auto-grinding bots do, because they'll need intelligence and navigation to actually make it to a boss. Let alone be able to move out of the instance, and then reset it.11 -
Another thing would be Moderators in game. the report thing is find but it takes forever and doesn't feel like anything is being done. that and i am tired of 12 emails about bots/gold spammers hitting my email at midnight every time i play ESO. I Love the game and don't mind reporting once and a while but i can't see the chat 75% of the timeLeader of the Mudcrabber's
Yes we are recruiting9 -
pentiumradeon_ESOSoul ShrivenThey should add community moderators that play through the game regularly, while also banning all the bots. They could be paid with sub-time!5
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Anoteros✭✭✭✭Here's what ZOS can do.
1. Fire up any MMORPG from the past 10 years
2. Take note how dungeons are handled ie: instancing and limit/lockouts per hour
3. ??
4. profit
Somehow I don't see it happening.11 -
TicToc✭✭✭They could also make all the loot and XP be based on the achievement you get for killing the boss the first time. Further kills should garner little, to no, reward. It is not like other games where they are running a dungeon to get to the boss each time and earn a reward. They just stand there in big groups and wait for it to spawn. They are not earning a reward. With all those people hitting it, the boss is no challenge, at all. Certainly not something worth rewarding. Removing the reward for that would solve the problem.3
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Magischzwei✭✭✭Bots are golsellers who farm ubiquos amounts of soul gems to vendor, then sell the gold
Mind = Blown2 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭They could also make all the loot and XP be based on the achievement you get for killing the boss the first time. Further kills should garner little, to no, reward. It is not like other games where they are running a dungeon to get to the boss each time and earn a reward. They just stand there in big groups and wait for it to spawn. They are not earning a reward. With all those people hitting it, the boss is no challenge, at all. Certainly not something worth rewarding. Removing the reward for that would solve the problem.
Simply overcomplicating things.
Look at ZOS' track record in implementing and fixing.
K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid)1 -
Corew✭✭✭Just set the value of soulgems to 0, there's nothing else in there worth spending time farming.. unless you want some blues to breakdown, and the exp is abysmal after the first kill.
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UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
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Just yesterday I saw someone spamming zone chat with "cheap power leveling" so you're probably right about this.The reason is, I believe, that these bots are / will someday be real people's characters. They are power leveling off the boss. Or they are paying someone to power level them. The loot is just a bonus. They go from dungeon to dungeon until they get to level 50.
A bot probably couldn't power level as effectively outside because it would have to run around and find enemies and others could take them. But in a dungeon there is just 1 enemy, bots are guaranteed a good amount of exp, and the respawn rate is fast. This sounds like a good power-leveling strategy to me (if you are sleeping or at work / school).
So, what's my point? My point is that putting on a loot timer is not going stop the bots because that is not the only reason they are doing that. An EXP timer might also be a good idea (or something like that). Real players can go out into the world and find other ways to get EXP. It won't be as easy for bots.
What do you think?
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
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Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
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J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
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Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
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Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp2 -
Jirki88✭✭✭I could see OPs point being correct. It would also be easy to prove by nerfing the XP value of a boss past the first kill - make the first kill give good XP, and all subsequent kills little XP.Veritas et aequitas, et usque ad mortem.1 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭Seriously this topic is going nowhere. It's like everyone is taking a philosophical approach to botting and farming O_o
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SirJesto✭✭✭How about killing the boss gets you no loot at all, just experience one time, and then you can loot a nearby chest, which up to that point was locked and unpickable, to get your reward. This chest can only be successfully looted once, and is available for every player in the area at any given time to access for their own loot?
No more bots in dungeons.....9 -
LimeFox✭✭✭Hadn't thought of this angle, and I've definitely seen the trash bot names running around, but you make a valid point! There have been people selling power leveling and this sounds like an absurdly easy way to do it. Good point!1
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Laerian✭✭✭They are after the gold and gems.
The band-aids will be the shared cooldown among the bosses and probably ZOS will make the gems sell value = 0 at some point. When this happens bots will move to the surface (some already are) and a new band-aid will "patch" the loot from regular mobs (In the meanwhile none of the goldsinks has been reduced) and so on.
From here to some months this game will be an empty shell of what was supposed to be: everything reduced, nerfed, deleted to *fight bots and goldsellers.
Sorry I don't like to be a doomsayer but this is what I'm seeing.
* the real fight is hiring some GM who stay 24/7 ingame perm baning bots.2 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Here's what ZOS can do.
1. Fire up any MMORPG from the past 10 years
2. Take note how dungeons are handled ie: instancing and limit/lockouts per hour
3. ??
4. profit
Somehow I don't see it happening.
You know what happened when instancing was introduced to MMOs? "OMG, this is a horrible idea! There won't be any socializing anymore. You may as well just make (*insert MMO*) a single player game."
Then, sometime after WoW was released and everyone was trying to copy it, instancing became ridiculously common. So common that there were some complaints that the games lost their expansive feel or that they felt incredibly lonely for being "massively multiplayer".
ESO saw this and took one small step back, making some dungeons public rather than private instances. This did bring back some of the social aspect at the cost of having to deal with boss farmers and bots. Personally, I like it even with the problems. First because it does feel a little bit more multiplayer and second because they didn't make every dungeon public. They struck a balance rather than go just one way or the other."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."8 -
ENAK✭✭The public dungeon bosses need to be limited somehow. You killed the dude? You get phased to an area where the boss will never respawn. You want to kill him again for more loot? Go through the whole dungeon again!
Just being able to stand there and one hit him for more loot as he respawns with every person entering the dungeon, is stupid. Everyone does it, not just bots... Usually I kill the boss 3-5 times, just to get some more/better stuff from him. Why? Because it's so easy... It shouldn't be. Phase people post-boss to an empty dungeon and force them to redo it.2 -
Pahebe✭Some still not getting idea of PUBLIC dungeon. You can't simply put a timer on it (dungeon) and make ppl move out and go thru trash again to kill boss.
You can tho make kind of "personal timer" on each character for each boss that would reduce inc XP (but then it would require to remove %based breaking point to get loot and XP as you would hit the boss it could cause you to get no loot nor XP, and then get timer anyway) from it for next - lets say - 30min by half or more and affect loot too (or not) making it drop worthless junk like crawlers or other things worth 0 gold.
Hope everyone gets my point ^^
Feeling like it's kind of mess, but makes sense in my mind
Also, wouldn't it be easier to just add buff for all bosses that they would be granted on spawn based on amount of players in certain dungeon? Like +20%hp, +20%dmg stacking up to 10 times? Challenging fights ftw.Edited by Pahebe on April 20, 2014 5:58PM0 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭
I don't think you understand what instancing means or what i'm getting at.Here's what ZOS can do.
1. Fire up any MMORPG from the past 10 years
2. Take note how dungeons are handled ie: instancing and limit/lockouts per hour
3. ??
4. profit
Somehow I don't see it happening.
You know what happened when instancing was introduced to MMOs? "OMG, this is a horrible idea! There won't be any socializing anymore. You may as well just make (*insert MMO*) a single player game."
Then, sometime after WoW was released and everyone was trying to copy it, instancing became ridiculously common. So common that there were some complaints that the games lost their expansive feel or that they felt incredibly lonely for being "massively multiplayer".
ESO saw this and took one small step back, making some dungeons public rather than private instances. This did bring back some of the social aspect at the cost of having to deal with boss farmers and bots. Personally, I like it even with the problems. First because it does feel a little bit more multiplayer and second because they didn't make every dungeon public. They struck a balance rather than go just one way or the other.
You do realise you pass through an 'instance' when entering a public dungeon right? The door you activate and the loading screen that follow, that is you entering the instance, only there is no grouping (unless you're already in a group) but you are in an instance.
There is no balance in having a bosses spawn cycle based on a trigger going off as new players approach the final room.
Public delves/dungeons should've been scaled to either single player or grouped. As for being true ElderScrolls this is a fundamental flaw in itself.
Having 69876 other special snowflakes running past you to kill mobs or the boss just as you're getting into the swing of things totally kills what this game was being hyped as: A MMO for TES fans.
Public dungeons need instancing. It's the only way to stop this garbage.
In case people haven't noticed the bots are also camping spawns with extrmemely quick respawn timers. Just check the ghost are outside Devons Watch.
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Tarrin✭✭✭I think, some the public dungeon changes will be solution of this problem:
- deleveling as in GuldWars 2 (same for zones will be great (questing with lowlvl friend))
- instance dungeon for player if you have a quest + same for party of two, but with increase count and power of monsters/boss (more atmospheric and interesting journey)
- alternative: as in Forgotten Crypt dungeon (Deshaan) - a lot of monsters pack (it is the first dungeon, where i`ve not seen any farmer bots)Samurai without a sword
Like a samurai with the sword
But without the sword0 -
Oevaag_Bur✭✭I would think a large art of it is levelling to be able to survive the run to the city in the next zone so they can spam there too. Have noticed a distinct lack of it in Rivenspire (3rd DC zone) whereas, whenever I log my level 3 alt in Daggerfall, I get one every few minutes.
Weird thing is. I keep seeing these level 5's with "gold seller names" in the north of the region I'm in. Flashing in and out of play in front of some npc or other yet they're not spamming zone ? Would love to know what it is they ARE doing.0 -
Fina✭✭✭Oevaag_Bur wrote: »
Weird thing is. I keep seeing these level 5's with "gold seller names" in the north of the region I'm in. Flashing in and out of play in front of some npc or other yet they're not spamming zone ? Would love to know what it is they ARE doing.
This is still happening in Rivenspire? This happened a few days ago to me too. They keep warping around some NPCs and around Wayshrines.
I think they are harvesting nodes. But I'm not certain.2 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭per.lundlib16_ESO wrote: »Just set the value of soulgems to 0, there's nothing else in there worth spending time farming.. unless you want some blues to breakdown, and the exp is abysmal after the first kill.
I stockpile my soul gems, and throw the blues in the bank and I still pull about 2k per trip when farming dungeon bosses. All those green & white items really add up. A lot of them have the sell for 125% trait.
There's also the loose gold the boss drops every time, I think it's around 30.
(Just to clarify, I do my farming manually, and report those filthy botters.)Edited by badmojo on April 20, 2014 9:14PM[DC/NA]1 -
columbineb14_ESO✭✭✭How about killing the boss gets you no loot at all, just experience one time, and then you can loot a nearby chest, which up to that point was locked and unpickable, to get your reward. This chest can only be successfully looted once, and is available for every player in the area at any given time to access for their own loot?
No more bots in dungeons.....
I like this one.
I have just told you more than I know.1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭per.lundlib16_ESO wrote: »Just set the value of soulgems to 0, there's nothing else in there worth spending time farming.. unless you want some blues to breakdown, and the exp is abysmal after the first kill.
You can't take this approach. The farmers will just park the bots elsewhere until that mob is nerfed. Then the next and the next. Meanwhile we as players lose more and more options. It would just be a snake eatings own tail. In the end, the bots will still be in the game and we are the losers. A different approach must be taken.
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Corew✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »per.lundlib16_ESO wrote: »Just set the value of soulgems to 0, there's nothing else in there worth spending time farming.. unless you want some blues to breakdown, and the exp is abysmal after the first kill.
You can't take this approach. The farmers will just park the bots elsewhere until that mob is nerfed. Then the next and the next. Meanwhile we as players lose more and more options. It would just be a snake eatings own tail. In the end, the bots will still be in the game and we are the losers. A different approach must be taken.
Tbh, I'm not sure it can be done.. just look at a game like WoW, 10 years in it's just as infested as it's ever been. Standing outside The botanica one can see an endless train of bots, like lemmings, going to and from the vendors below ;p0 -
Leesha✭✭✭There are bots being used by players (non gold farmers) as well because they don't want to put in any effort. All it takes is a google search to find forums discussing the various bot programs and which one is "safer" and less obvious. Of course "fgfgfgfgr" is a gold farmer bot but today I've seen actual normal player names botting as well. They are almost always templars and ALL of them walk the same path and have the exact same glitches. I'm one of those players who will farm a public dungeon boss on occasion when I'm in there. If the bots are going to kill it for me, I'll tag it for easy loot. I don't have an issue with actual players farming the bosses but those bots frustrate me.
Public dungeon bosses are perfect for bot programs because those bosses spawn relatively fast and more often than not are in a safe area where nothing else is within aggro range. Soul gems sell incredibly well and stack to 100. In 30 mins you can get over 50 soul gems. Imagine how much gold a bot can make just off of soul gems in a 24 hour period.
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