ZOS, pls Re-Re-Work the Vampire

karekiz · June 2020

Vamp give FREE SPAM

Able!

Glurin · June 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

Issue with the Perfect Scion morph Glurin is that the Swarming Scion morph does the job better for several reasons.
The bat swarm's damage heals you which makes up for whatever health recovery debuff you're suffering through.

It applies pressure to everything around you with a very large AOE.

Mixes better with Blood Frenzy since you end up with more healing to keep it up longer.

Awards the same 10k health, stamina, and magicka perfect scion gives.

Sure there are times you might think Perfect Scion would be better but all its really doing in the end is reducing the flame damage you're taking and makes your non-vampire abilities cheaper. At stage 1 the thing is whopping 314 ultimate which means there are better ultimates out there for DPS, Healing, and Tanking. If you're staying stage 1 and using Perfect Scion to activate all of the stage based passives you only get them active for about 18 seconds due to the long transformation into the Scion form. That's a massive down time for very little gain.

That's why I said it's very niche. I wasn't saying perfect scion was all around better, just that it wasn't completely useless. To get the most out of it, you pretty much have to be someone who is in stage 4 all the time and use it to wipe out the downsides of vampirism as opposed to gaining the upsides. You don't get much at all out of the perfect scion morph if you're using it at stage 1. Even then, it's mainly about that non-vamp resource cost. If your recovery and resource pool is large enough to handle whatever your rotation is anyway, then perfect scion doesn't really add much of anything on that front. The health recovery debuff isn't really an issue either way because in combat you should have other sources of healing, so all you're really left with is the fire damage debuff, which of course is only useful if someone is throwing a lot of fire at you.

Another thing to consider is if you're using the vampire lord set, you'll probably see slightly more benefit. But that's pretty much putting a niche on top of a niche.

kaisernick · June 2020

No, i absolutly love my

red_emu wrote: »

I tried to make a vampire work in PvP. Tried all the skills and slowly took them off my bars, leaving only mist form, which was available pre-Greymoor.

The whole kiss-curse mechanic is pointless when you give us a set of completely useless skills!

1. Blood for blood is a melee spammable which costs magica and synergies best with mag builds. Guess what - most mag builds are ranged (bar DK, and even they have a 7m range)
2. Mesmerise never hits the enemy because they have to be facing you so perfectly. Either adjust the angle of what "facing the player" is or change it to work like the NB fear.
3. Vampiric drain. This one is pure lol. You can choose to die within 3 seconds while dealing 500 damage/s and healing for 20 health (most builds have higher health regen than the damage you can deal with it). The stam morph. Oh dear. Don't get me started.
4. Damage buff skill. I guess it's good for bombers only but useless for anyone else.
5. Mist form: the only useful skill due to the stage 2 passive.
6. Ultimate. While it's pretty cool to turn into a rubber figurine and deal crazy damage (very often a suicide mission), the duration is too short. Perfect scion morph is useless!
You ascend to stage 5 and get no drawbacks. Honestly, that is a completely useless morph. With pumped up stats while in the form, the draw backs basically do not matter. You have enough health and healing and mag pool, that by the time you run out of resources or get low on health, the transformation is over - taking you into a really long animation, allowing enemy players to all gap close you, while you can't move.

I'm guessing eventually we'll see some changes, but as it is, the vampire is an RP thing for me at this stage.

1.Blood for blood: It costs health you thinking of the other morph and it works very very well with a magicka Nb, the magicka morph is pretty pointless except for solo play and even then its not great, i think having a increased ranged or a stun would make it more useful.
2.Mesmerise:your point is null here as hypnosis morph allows you to sun enemies around you not just in front of you.
3.Vampiric Drain: yes i agree with you here it is useless.
5:Mist Form: its mostly a ultility spell for certain situations but i do think mist should drain more magicka but makes you inviable (at least as a morph)
6:Ultimate: I have to agree here that it is far to short witch unlike WW has no way to keep it going, now if vampiric drain increased your scion form that might make both more useful but i really dont think its a brilliant skill.

The passives are fine imo espically at stage one but i do think they need a alternate way to decrease your stages other than a drink as it does make the fantisity of being a vampire and feeding very off putting if you dont have the drinks or cant get hold of them, (i can make them but there may be people who cannot)

Jeremy · June 2020

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip]

[Edit for censor bypass.]

khajiitNPC · June 2020

Idk, at first glance I wasn’t feeling the changes to vampire, but having only one on magicka nb, I was like whatever.

But now, idk what changed on it, I just feel super strong. Vampire is a lot of fun to play. Enjoying it immensely. The one good thing about the chapter, or at lead the one thing that sticks out most for me.

Nova_J · June 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

Sephyr · June 2020

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

Agreed. More often than not, I'm using my class heals regardless of the cost because they keep me alive 10x better than the silly little drain.

Fata1moose · June 2020

Vampires suck and not in the feeding kind of way. I'm not the biggest fan of the skills although I do like having more as a basis, but my biggest disappointment is the appearance of the ultimate. It's too big and disimilar to the Vampire Lord which would have been a better look. I hope ZOS addresses the criticism.

Xologamer · June 2020

red_emu wrote: »

I tried to make a vampire work in PvP. Tried all the skills and slowly took them off my bars, leaving only mist form, which was available pre-Greymoor.

The whole kiss-curse mechanic is pointless when you give us a set of completely useless skills!

1. Blood for blood is a melee spammable which costs magica and synergies best with mag builds. Guess what - most mag builds are ranged (bar DK, and even they have a 7m range)
2. Mesmerise never hits the enemy because they have to be facing you so perfectly. Either adjust the angle of what "facing the player" is or change it to work like the NB fear.
3. Vampiric drain. This one is pure lol. You can choose to die within 3 seconds while dealing 500 damage/s and healing for 20 health (most builds have higher health regen than the damage you can deal with it). The stam morph. Oh dear. Don't get me started.
4. Damage buff skill. I guess it's good for bombers only but useless for anyone else.
5. Mist form: the only useful skill due to the stage 2 passive.
6. Ultimate. While it's pretty cool to turn into a rubber figurine and deal crazy damage (very often a suicide mission), the duration is too short. Perfect scion morph is useless!
You ascend to stage 5 and get no drawbacks. Honestly, that is a completely useless morph. With pumped up stats while in the form, the draw backs basically do not matter. You have enough health and healing and mag pool, that by the time you run out of resources or get low on health, the transformation is over - taking you into a really long animation, allowing enemy players to all gap close you, while you can't move.

I'm guessing eventually we'll see some changes, but as it is, the vampire is an RP thing for me at this stage.

so than u did something wrong i created a pvp vampire to and
1.i dont like nekro range spammable(my vampire is a nekro) and i have no problem going meele so i went for it and its dealig realy good dmg
2. if u dont hit a target its less the fault of the skill...
3. vampric drain in combo with other hots is a pretty strong heal and its a very nice ult reg to (so i go for the nekro ghost and than vampire drain and i can heal pretty much anythink)
4. i agree with u thats the only skill i wont use from vamp
5. agree to
6. yea for sure the stage 5 morph isnt as good as the other - the other is dealing realy great dmg giving very much reasources and the 19% life steal is pretty damn good so this ultimate is very good for offensive and defensive thats why i use it to

defnetly no rp thing but will get changes anytime (like everythink)

btw everone who cryes that 10% reg are lost... vampire isnt ur sustain *** its way better as it is right now where u actually have to play more like a vampire

LeHarrt91 · June 2020

I agree they should remove the non vamp cost increase, even if they dont add the recovery back, that alone is one of the reasons most people cured vampirism and is really my only dislike from being a vampire. Sure at stage 1 its somewhat manageable but the vampire skill kit is lacking, and needs to be completed with class skills.

They should add more incentive to be stage 4, and have as many vampire skills slotted. Like Wardens Animal Companion Passive. At Stage 2/3/4 each skill slotted does X/Y/Z.

red_emu · June 2020

kaisernick wrote: »

No, i absolutly love my

red_emu wrote: »

I tried to make a vampire work in PvP. Tried all the skills and slowly took them off my bars, leaving only mist form, which was available pre-Greymoor.

The whole kiss-curse mechanic is pointless when you give us a set of completely useless skills!

1. Blood for blood is a melee spammable which costs magica and synergies best with mag builds. Guess what - most mag builds are ranged (bar DK, and even they have a 7m range)
2. Mesmerise never hits the enemy because they have to be facing you so perfectly. Either adjust the angle of what "facing the player" is or change it to work like the NB fear.
3. Vampiric drain. This one is pure lol. You can choose to die within 3 seconds while dealing 500 damage/s and healing for 20 health (most builds have higher health regen than the damage you can deal with it). The stam morph. Oh dear. Don't get me started.
4. Damage buff skill. I guess it's good for bombers only but useless for anyone else.
5. Mist form: the only useful skill due to the stage 2 passive.
6. Ultimate. While it's pretty cool to turn into a rubber figurine and deal crazy damage (very often a suicide mission), the duration is too short. Perfect scion morph is useless!
You ascend to stage 5 and get no drawbacks. Honestly, that is a completely useless morph. With pumped up stats while in the form, the draw backs basically do not matter. You have enough health and healing and mag pool, that by the time you run out of resources or get low on health, the transformation is over - taking you into a really long animation, allowing enemy players to all gap close you, while you can't move.

I'm guessing eventually we'll see some changes, but as it is, the vampire is an RP thing for me at this stage.

1.Blood for blood: It costs health you thinking of the other morph and it works very very well with a magicka Nb, the magicka morph is pretty pointless except for solo play and even then its not great, i think having a increased ranged or a stun would make it more useful.
2.Mesmerise:your point is null here as hypnosis morph allows you to sun enemies around you not just in front of you.
3.Vampiric Drain: yes i agree with you here it is useless.
5:Mist Form: its mostly a ultility spell for certain situations but i do think mist should drain more magicka but makes you inviable (at least as a morph)
6:Ultimate: I have to agree here that it is far to short witch unlike WW has no way to keep it going, now if vampiric drain increased your scion form that might make both more useful but i really dont think its a brilliant skill.

The passives are fine imo espically at stage one but i do think they need a alternate way to decrease your stages other than a drink as it does make the fantisity of being a vampire and feeding very off putting if you dont have the drinks or cant get hold of them, (i can make them but there may be people who cannot)

I don't think you understood my post.

1. I am talking about both morphs and their issue being melee, not the actual damage.
2. Mesmerise only works on enemies that face you but the angle of the enemy facing you is too narrow. I can have people staring right into my soul and the stun will still miss them due to the servers not being able to tell who is where and facing which direction.

Tessitura · June 2020

Lixiviant wrote: »

NOOOOOO! I was going to get a Vampire bite today!

The OP is being overly dramatic. Vampire is viable, and I am guessing he is just upset because he can no longer passively build around it. If you like any of the skills and think you can get some use out of them, then go for it. The biggest problem with vamp right now is the melee focus without a built in gap closer. If you can make up for that you will be fine in pvp and in pve you can get use out of the passives if you build to compensate for the cost increase.

ccfeeling · June 2020

I cured all 4 vamps , I have no idea what ZOS doing .

Jeremy · June 2020

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

So tell me then, for example: if you were a Templar Tank with a small magicka pool and let's say concentrated more on building your health and resistances - what class heal do you have that is better than the Vampire Drain?

Jeremy · June 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

Agreed. More often than not, I'm using my class heals regardless of the cost because they keep me alive 10x better than the silly little drain.

The only time I would use any of my class heals would be if I just wanted to waste my magicka. Because that is literally all it would accomplish.

LIke I said, it depends on how you build your character. But the Vampire Drain is very nice for certain set ups and enables people to play their characters in different and more effective ways then they otherwise could. If you have better class options - then more power to you - don't slot it. But for others, it's definitely worth using - and gives us a way to effectively heal ourselves when we otherwise could not.

Commandment · June 2020

When ESO gives more skills, and all people do is complain.

Nova_J · June 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

So tell me then, for example: if you were a Templar Tank with a small magicka pool and let's say concentrated more on building your health and resistances - what class heal do you have that is better than the Vampire Drain?

Dont templar tanks have that mega shield skill(forgot what it was called) and the ritual rebirth? I know that skill is expensive though but temps have almost no sustain issues. I dont know if that scales with max mag or not but with enough points into blessed it should enough to get you out of trouble, if you pop the shield skill first at least. But hey,you may be right, I'm ignorant to templar tanking. But I've seen peeps use them and they had no problem healing themselves when they needed. Plus you always have monster sets like earthgore if you dontfeel like running a burst.

Spectral_Force · June 2020

I love how so many people trying to defend the vampire rework say that everyone is mad because the sustain passive is gone.
No one is saying that, but keep punching that strawman.

Glurin · June 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

So tell me then, for example: if you were a Templar Tank with a small magicka pool and let's say concentrated more on building your health and resistances - what class heal do you have that is better than the Vampire Drain?

I'm unfamiliar with Templar as they're not really my style, but lets see. There's Rushed Ceremony, Healing Ritual, and Cleansing Ritual. Probably others, but I'm just looking at what seems to be the healing tree for now. I'd take any one of those over Drain any day for tanking. Sure, Drain is cheap and can potentially heal for a good amount if you let it run it's course, especially if you get dangerously low on health. But three seconds is a long damn time to stand there with your defenses down.

Glurin · June 2020

Spectral_Force wrote: »

I love how so many people trying to defend the vampire rework say that everyone is mad because the sustain passive is gone.
No one is saying that, but keep punching that strawman.

Actually there have been a few that have come forward saying exactly that.

ZaroktheImmortal · June 2020

Some stuff I like from it like being able to turn invisible when running at stage 4 but with the downsides of stage 4 doesn't really feel worth it to me. They really ramped up the downsides to being a vampire even at stage 1 non vamp abilities cost more, you lose health regeneration(by stage 4 there is no health regeneration) and fire damage. Vampire abilities seem to be aimed at only magika dps role so if you're anything else it's not as helpful especially when the abilities you'd have to use in say a healer role are costing more. So while the new effects and such look cool and all it's a thing of a lot will be turned off from it. And it really should make people want to play this role I mean it doesn't have to be a you have to be this to be the best but as is seems it has more downsides than up. I've kept mine as vampire as I like the whole vampire look and such but for the most part it seems to have a lot of negatives.

YandereGirlfriend · June 2020

In a dynamic combat game such as ESO channeled skills that aren't damage spammables feel awful to use and usually aren't worth the opportunity cost to cast them.

Drain is a huge offender in this category and I would never slot the skill in either PvP or PvE.

Turn at least one morph (the extra-useless Stamina morph) into a (bat-themed!) DoT and leave the ultimate generation morph for the PvE tanks that want to use it in theme builds.

That way everyone can be happy.

ZaroktheImmortal · June 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

The main issue is they created a toolkit that is mostly utility and then geared all the debuffs and passives to make being a vampire an active play style as if it was its own separate class. What we get is an incomplete mess like this that forces players to pick the abilities they need, but then fix all the issues with their class, weapon, and guild skill lines. It makes for a very unfun play style that is very unadaptable to different situations.

I honestly didn't worry too much about the changing of the recovery passive but the addition of the non-vampire cost increases was going way too far. This is an example of ZOS's love for over tweaking things and we all know what happened during and after the DoT meta. Getting rid of the non-vampire cost increases would be a step in the right direction for making vampire more fun and viable again, and then they could revert the old values on the PTS the vampire cost reduction buff was at to encourage players to use more of the skills. These two things combined would make players want to feed to progress their stage instead of sit at stage 1 like many are doing now.

Another thing they should do is either ramp up the damage of vampiric drain or have it heal a % of your max health instead of a % of your missing health. As it is right now there is a diminishing return the longer you keep the drain on and its a huge risk because you can be interrupted.
Also with Mesmerize they should really make the angle your target has to be at to be "looking at you" to something like 180 degrees instead of 90 degrees, because that's the same angle required in order for the game to have a character's head look at something. This means a character's head could be pointed at your character, but because you're like a couple degrees off from that 90 degree arc in front of them that they don't count as "looking at you". Its honestly ridiculous and stupid. Please change the rules of this skill ZOS.

^This. I also love how people are going "It's a curse, get over it" without actually understanding what the actual problems are with the current iteration of vampirism. We accept that there's a curse. That's not the point, nor the issue. The issue is that there are too many downsides for little to no reward. There's no power fantasy in being a suicidal thing that doesn't even feel vampiric. I'd rather take sun damage at this point for something better.

Well if they want it to be a curse well sure but then lets make vampires uber powerful cause they're vampires make them stronger than any others by that same logic. Then you'll have the same people going it's a curse get over it wanting it nerfed..

idk · June 2020

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Different people see things differently. They clearly have explained they find some specific skills in the new design useful. That should not be mind-boggling by any means.

Spectral_Force · June 2020

Glurin wrote: »

Spectral_Force wrote: »

I love how so many people trying to defend the vampire rework say that everyone is mad because the sustain passive is gone.
No one is saying that, but keep punching that strawman.

Actually there have been a few that have come forward saying exactly that.

You're right, I now recall some people saying this. In any case, for every one of them there is five people who have legitimate concerns.

Still, this "y'all just mad cuz you wanted to min-max"-style of defense is used to dismiss valid criticisms, like vampirism discouraging the use of regular abilities despite skill line not being a complete toolkit, the fact it shoehorns you into being a mag DPS, overcosted ultimate, the gutting of Drain, lazy visuals and uninspired direction in general, etc.

Sephyr · June 2020

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

The main issue is they created a toolkit that is mostly utility and then geared all the debuffs and passives to make being a vampire an active play style as if it was its own separate class. What we get is an incomplete mess like this that forces players to pick the abilities they need, but then fix all the issues with their class, weapon, and guild skill lines. It makes for a very unfun play style that is very unadaptable to different situations.

I honestly didn't worry too much about the changing of the recovery passive but the addition of the non-vampire cost increases was going way too far. This is an example of ZOS's love for over tweaking things and we all know what happened during and after the DoT meta. Getting rid of the non-vampire cost increases would be a step in the right direction for making vampire more fun and viable again, and then they could revert the old values on the PTS the vampire cost reduction buff was at to encourage players to use more of the skills. These two things combined would make players want to feed to progress their stage instead of sit at stage 1 like many are doing now.

Another thing they should do is either ramp up the damage of vampiric drain or have it heal a % of your max health instead of a % of your missing health. As it is right now there is a diminishing return the longer you keep the drain on and its a huge risk because you can be interrupted.
Also with Mesmerize they should really make the angle your target has to be at to be "looking at you" to something like 180 degrees instead of 90 degrees, because that's the same angle required in order for the game to have a character's head look at something. This means a character's head could be pointed at your character, but because you're like a couple degrees off from that 90 degree arc in front of them that they don't count as "looking at you". Its honestly ridiculous and stupid. Please change the rules of this skill ZOS.

^This. I also love how people are going "It's a curse, get over it" without actually understanding what the actual problems are with the current iteration of vampirism. We accept that there's a curse. That's not the point, nor the issue. The issue is that there are too many downsides for little to no reward. There's no power fantasy in being a suicidal thing that doesn't even feel vampiric. I'd rather take sun damage at this point for something better.

Well if they want it to be a curse well sure but then lets make vampires uber powerful cause they're vampires make them stronger than any others by that same logic. Then you'll have the same people going it's a curse get over it wanting it nerfed..

No one's talking about making them uber 'powerful'. I don't know where you're getting that idea from and I don't appreciate words being put in my mouth. What I distinctly said was that there are a TON of problems with the current iteration.

There is NO incentive to be at Stage 4 at all. Literally none. You want to sneak around? It's safer to pop a potion or cast cloak. Stamina included.
Blood Frenzy looks good on paper, but mechanically speaking with the current performance track record, you're lucky if you just have to double tap the ability to get it to stop.
The Drain literally has no mechanical BiS use aside from very super niche playstyles (apparently), but class heals are better used regardless.
There is no incentive to use the ultimate. Wow, a free 10k Magicka and Stamina that stalls me out for 2.5-3 seconds that makes the DPS super marginal and is usually a death sentence in PvP.
Let's also look at the fact that Elusive Mist is no longer a 70% increase to movement speed and you can literally sprint FASTER than the morph. What's the problem with this? Most things can pull you OUT of Mist Form compared to it's previous iteration.
Clouding Swarm from the old iteration had a gap closer. Where is it in this toolkit? Spoiler alert, it's nowhere.
Feeding on NPCs doesn't heal you.
Eviscerate has a bug where if you swipe at someone, your resources are drained and they don't even take damage.
The majority of the vampire community stays at Stage 1-2 and doesn't have to engage with the rest of the skill line aside from feeding.
Mesmerize barely works in combat and it's super dodgey with it's essential NPC environmental effect.

What we're asking for is something more uniform, something that properly works, and something that legitimately ticks all the boxes of what it means to be a vampire. There's no "LOL LET'S MAKE IT OP".

Jeremy · June 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

Agreed. More often than not, I'm using my class heals regardless of the cost because they keep me alive 10x better than the silly little drain.

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

So tell me then, for example: if you were a Templar Tank with a small magicka pool and let's say concentrated more on building your health and resistances - what class heal do you have that is better than the Vampire Drain?

Dont templar tanks have that mega shield skill(forgot what it was called) and the ritual rebirth? I know that skill is expensive though but temps have almost no sustain issues. I dont know if that scales with max mag or not but with enough points into blessed it should enough to get you out of trouble, if you pop the shield skill first at least. But hey,you may be right, I'm ignorant to templar tanking. But I've seen peeps use them and they had no problem healing themselves when they needed. Plus you always have monster sets like earthgore if you dontfeel like running a burst.

Yes they have a shield, but that doesn't get your health back and relying on your ultimate to heal can be very risky. That drain saves my life all the time. If I take a big hit, I can throw up my shield then drain my health back. It's incredibly useful, trust me.

But I'll meet you half way (since you were gracious enough to concede I may be right when it comes to Templar tanking) and concede it may not be as useful on some of the other classes. So it may very well suck by comparison for others as you say. But for a class like Templar that has no reliable way to heal themselves independent of investing significantly into Magicka it's a nice option to have.

Jeremy · June 2020

Glurin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

So tell me then, for example: if you were a Templar Tank with a small magicka pool and let's say concentrated more on building your health and resistances - what class heal do you have that is better than the Vampire Drain?

I'm unfamiliar with Templar as they're not really my style, but lets see. There's Rushed Ceremony, Healing Ritual, and Cleansing Ritual. Probably others, but I'm just looking at what seems to be the healing tree for now. I'd take any one of those over Drain any day for tanking. Sure, Drain is cheap and can potentially heal for a good amount if you let it run it's course, especially if you get dangerously low on health. But three seconds is a long damn time to stand there with your defenses down.

Templar heals require a significant investment to be worthwhile. So they are difficult to utilize effectively as a tank. Drain doesn't and heals me far more effectively and efficiently then any of those heals. So I'll take drain any day over those you mentioned.

idk · June 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Nightlbades also have a nice health-based heal. Other classes (like Templar for example) don't. So it gives everyone access to an effective health-based heal. That's not a joke, Nova. It's handy, trust me. I use it on my Templar tank all the time and it saves my [snip].

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Every class has a heal that's better than drain. The ult regen on a tank is useful( if you somehow are struggling with ult regen which you shouldn't be). But on my necro or warden tank?? Lmaoo why would I use that when I can use scythe or polar winds? A burst heal that heals for much more vs. a channel skill that has diminishing returns and can be interrupted? Which would you use? And this skill in pvp? Lol just no. They should've made the skill so much more versatile and had it synergize more with the rest of the skills.

"This morph restores 5% of your missing stamina"
Lmaoo ^^ see that is a joke.

So tell me then, for example: if you were a Templar Tank with a small magicka pool and let's say concentrated more on building your health and resistances - what class heal do you have that is better than the Vampire Drain?

I'm unfamiliar with Templar as they're not really my style, but lets see. There's Rushed Ceremony, Healing Ritual, and Cleansing Ritual. Probably others, but I'm just looking at what seems to be the healing tree for now. I'd take any one of those over Drain any day for tanking. Sure, Drain is cheap and can potentially heal for a good amount if you let it run it's course, especially if you get dangerously low on health. But three seconds is a long damn time to stand there with your defenses down.

Templar heals require a significant investment to be worthwhile. So they are difficult to utilize effectively as a tank. Drain doesn't and heals far more effectively then either of those heals you mentioned. So I'll take drain any day over those two you mentioned.

For a tank, this is very much correct. Their stat investment is more into max health and sustain which means heals that scale off of max Magicka and spell damage are pretty small compared to a healer build. It is why heals that scale off of missing health are popular for tanks.

This has been the case since Morrowind when Zos removed much of the sustained benefit that came from having max stats. Pre-Morrowind when the amount of stam we got from shared was based on our max stam and the mag we got from orbs was based on the casters max Magicka we did go for max stats. Vigor was a popular heal for tanks then because it was a hot. Today it is less popular because it is to small with the way we build now.

Nova_J · June 2020

idk wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

schlaflos_inWien wrote: »

it is not only about numbers.. its about usefullness! those numbers just represent, what the gameplay as vampire is now. at the end a vampire now runs out of resources very quickly. the vampire basically got a double-nerv now. not only we lost the reg, now we also have cost increase.

because you just want to be a vampire for passives using non-vampire skills as usual but vampire is a playstyle now and you must play vamp skills or don't be a vamp. and even if vampire is underachieving it's a problem only for ppl who want to have max numbers everytime

Lol you literally are gimping yourself if you use the other skills outside of BfB. These changes are underwhelming af and we saw this coming from miles away.

Drain is a great way for certain builds to get their health back and Mist Form is good for PvP. I use Vampire Skills outside of Blood for Blood all the time and they in no way "gimp" me.

Drain is a joke lol. It does give alot of heal but I have better heals on my mag blade that arent interuptable and actually provide more than just health. I swear it is so mind boggling that so many people are satisfied with these skill when they couldve been sooooo much more smh.

Different people see things differently. They clearly have explained they find some specific skills in the new design useful. That should not be mind-boggling by any means.

Indeed perspective is a big part in it. But I find these skills mediocre, a small shadow of what they should actually be. People waited so damn long for these changes to come and this is what they get? Lol I couldve come up with better changes in half the time. There is no reason why a morph of the drain skill only gives 5% of your missing stam back. That is a literal joke and shouldn't have made it passed live. And for being an such an iconic skill, it should be much more powerful. Mesmerize, blood frenzy, BfB (yes I include this because it completely renders the other morph obsolete, there are already too many ways to get high crit), and the passives all need massive changes. My vamps are bougie af and dont like using crappy moves.