Leads in IC; if you wanted us to hate PvP even more... this was it
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Ratinira✭✭✭✭So the steps I should make are:
- spend time to get special gear
- change skills at shrine
- learn how to use them
- leave trade/pve guild
- join pvp guild
- collect people who will help me with quests
- spend ~30 min to do questline
- leave pvp guild
- join back trade/pve guild
- change skills back at shrine
- throw gear away
Anything forgotten?- It takes about 15 minutes on TTC to find the gear, it is usually really cheap as well.
- I change skills quite often just for different PVE setups, so don't you do that already also?
- You don't need to know many skills, and if you don't already know your class/weapon skills, well then you aren't even good at PVE.
- Joining a PVP guild is optional, as I made perfectly clear, my guild runs open groups, as do many others. Try finding out when some good guilds from you alliance may be there and ask if you can hang with them to get your lead, you will probably be surprised how accommodating they will be. Joining a guild and quitting just to achieve a goal, would be a pretty low thing to do. Did you do that to achieve your PVE goals as well? Join a trial guild, gear up and quit them?
- Throw the gear away if you want, or like happened to me, you may have just made some new friends and found a new part of the game that was a lot more fun than you previously thought... since you took the time to do it correctly and didn't just dose yourself in gasoline and jump in the fire.
- No, I dont change skills, I have several characters for different roles I need.
- No, I wont join guild for half an hour, that was sarcasm
- I went to IC for a specific purpose, achieved it, and hope I will never ever return to that fun part of the game.3 -
Ratinira✭✭✭✭Game is forcing. If I need something from IC you must enter it. The same is about any other content.
The difference is if you need a stuff from boss in, lets say, Rift you have to kill that boss. If you need stuff from IC you have try to kill the boss and die dozens of time from people who attack you from back.
If I am standing in the farest corner, killing mobs and constantly getting backstabbed by players who just passing by I dont see them doing that not from joy of killing other player but from challenge of doing quest in a hard environment. I would never attack other player who is busy with ones own questing. But from your post I see that there are people who believe that killing player who is just standing in a corner is a challenge....
Hope you dont overwork doing that...
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
See, there you go again, the game isn't forcing anything on you and you don't "need" anything, you desire it. How can you need something that didn't even exist a month ago and you did fine without?
But yes, if you are going to enter a group PVP zone, totally unprepared as a solo player, it will not bode well for you. You don't even need to be targeted, as almost all PVP is about tossing as many AE's around as possible, so you will be collateral damage no matter what, especially if you are wearing PVE gear and basically have zero defense against other players.
If you really desire that item so much, then why are you not willing to take even the most basic steps to help yourself get it? You didn't run out to kill the boss mobs in vet dungeons for their items naked, so why would you expect that to work in IC or Cyrodiil?
Take a few simple steps and your experience will be completely different in those zones:- Get the right gear, even a green set is better than a gold PVE setup. Optionally, depending on your class, make an unkillable setup if you don't care about damaging other players. It took 6 of us a full minute to take down one solo guy yesterday, its doable.
- Don't run out solo, you are simply fodder then. Every PVP zone has a safe area, from which you can join groups. My guild has open groups running quite often when we are playing. Grouping with 20 other players who are in IC for the same reason and helping each other get the leads, is a lot more effective than trying to solo for them and chances are, you will not die so much.
- Join a PVP guild, they are not what you think. Mine is the second largest DC guild and our times together are a blast, they are really funny, super helpful and welcome everyone. According to our recruit message, we are "Casual" and my experience with them over the past couple of months agrees. They are very good casuals though, we win most of the time against overwhelming forces because we work together and use strategies. Sundays are for IC farming, my wife got her lead after about 30 minutes of us running around. I didn't, but I don't desire that lead anyways, so no biggy, I was there to just help.
Its pretty simple stuff. You don't do trials or vet dungeons in overland farming gear, so get the right gear for the job at the very least and maybe then your argument might carry some weight.
So the steps I should make are:
- spend time to get special gear
- change skills at shrine
- learn how to use them
- leave trade/pve guild
- join pvp guild
- collect people who will help me with quests
- spend ~30 min to do questline
- leave pvp guild
- join back trade/pve guild
- change skills back at shrine
- throw gear away
Anything forgotten?
I originally wanted to say something else but that'd probably get edited for baiting, so let's try another approach.
Let's have a closer look at those gankers (also are we still on gankers or just ANY PvPers trying to PvP in a PvP zone at this point?)
They didn't just log into the game on day 1 with 50k one-hit damage, you know. They
- leveled up a character (possibly with ideal race/class setup, a lot of people actually level dedicated chars for special roles such as this, so it's possible they actually had to level from scratch there, or at least pay for a race change on already existing character)
- theorycrafted or looked up a build (since ganking is a primarily solo activity, this gets a lot more important than when running with a crowd)
- set up their skills and gear into at least somewhat viable setup to farm PvE for the required gear, a lot of which tends to be BoP
- had to join a PvE guild in order to run dungeons to farm that special gear
- had to leave a PvP/trade guild in order to join that PvE guild for farming gear
- spent the time to get special gear (which may have taken quite a while given this gear is likely BoP and may even include (v)MA stuff)
- had to leave that PvE guild
- had to join back that PvP/trade guild
- set up their skills a special way, which likely eradicates their usefulness in any other role, meaning any time they wanna do something different they have to change skills at the shrine
- crafted fancy potions (which is far from cheap btw)
- died quite a few times trying to learn to do it properly (given ganking is a solo activity for the most part, there's no hope for a crowd support to fall back to there)
- spent their time waiting for that perfect occasion (I have seen oh so many a gank fail when tried at the wrong moment)
- etc (I do not actually have a gank character so there may be more to it; someone more experienced please correct me if I got anything wrong)
...and all of this just so they could go and have a shot at quickly killing someone like you. Or me. Or anyone else for that matter, just because this is their preferred activity in a PvP zone.
Now tell me...what is it that makes YOUR time so much more valueable and important than THEIR time that all their efforts should be nullified just so you don't have to put any in?
*shakes head* I never thought we'd come to this...me, of all people, defending ganking, a playstyle I have always hated with passion. But here we go.
You miss the reason. Its around the middle. "~30 minutes to do quest".
If people you describe do all of that for 30 minutes of ganking I envy them for the amount of free time they have
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Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
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You are quite right. If you die in pvp you can come back and die againyou know if you die in pvp you can come back and go at it again...
get out of your comfort zone and if you dont want to then dont demand that I get into yours
That is the whole reason why pvp players so much want pve players in pvp zones. For pve players though it simply means a waste of time, and a waste of time is never appropriate.
Getting out of comfort zone works in real life when you are getting a very good paycheck as well. In a game meant to be fun it is stupid.
There is a very small subset of PVP players that want "fodder", actual PVPers want to fight other PVPers. Our groups in Cyrodiil and IC commonly run right past solo players, they aren't worth the time to dismount for. We are after the keep at the end of the road and those guys defending it, or better yet, their scrolls. Of course, if you take a pot shot and knock one of us off our horse, woe be to you.
So basically, all PVPers are gankers when in reality 99% of them aren't? And BTW, we like killing gankers too, it is very satisfying after one of them just blew up 10 of you while you were killing that name for the lead. Its not like PVPers don't have the same exact issues the PVEers complain about, we just get payback instead of blowing up the forums about it!
Everyone enjoys the game their own way, try being a bit more accepting of others.6 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Looking over this thread I am surprised by the reaction of many pvp players.
Here is a short list of some dismaying trends;
1) Defending the exercise of, or even being excited about, attacking pve players who just want to get in and out as fast as possible is not a great look. I don’t see any justification for this other then you dislike other people.
Defending the exclusivity model seems disingenuous when many here seem excited of the thought of killing those players looking for leads.
“Too bad” and “The targeted killing of pve players is fine because pvp” are not compelling arguments for the exclusivity model.
2) I am surprised no pvp players have come forward with any ideas on how to avoid fighting other players.
Ideas might include times when population is low.
Campaigns times when various factions may be in power, Etc.
Here is a tip of my own;
Leads are account wide. If you must enter a pvp zone, strategically choose a character and faction that will make it the easiest for you to get the lead.
3) Finally the “Because the leads are in pvp areas they are intended for pvp gameplay” arguments. Beyond the obvious counter argument of “Monster helms and armor sets drop in trials and dungeons, so they are only intended for pve gameplay”, if a player wants “x” that should be justification enough. The “you don’t really need x” argument is hardy the point.5 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
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So PvPers should complain that they put exclusive leads (and other exclusive rewards) in dungeons?
I have stated many times in this thread, I don’t like exclusivities on either side of the aisle. Put monster sets in pvp rewards, I would not care and I believe many pvp players would appreciate it.
its selfsih of you to ask that zos change up a big part of their loot system to cater to a very small percent of people who seem to have a fear of pvp. you know if you die in pvp you can come back and go at it again...
get out of your comfort zone and if you dont want to then dont demand that I get into yours
To be clear, it’s selfish of me, a non pvp player, to argue that pvp players should get additional rewards for pvp gameplay. Rewards that they would not normally have access to without doing something they dislike, that makes me a selfish person. That is your assertion?
Ok. I think I am done with this thread. It’s just not worth it.Edited by BlueRaven on June 10, 2020 5:58PM1 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭Looking over this thread I am surprised by the reaction of many pvp players.
Here is a short list of some dismaying trends;
1) Defending the exercise of, or even being excited about, attacking pve players who just want to get in and out as fast as possible is not a great look. I don’t see any justification for this other then you dislike other people.
Defending the exclusivity model seems disingenuous when many here seem excited of the thought of killing those players looking for leads.
“Too bad” and “The targeted killing of pve players is fine because pvp” are not compelling arguments for the exclusivity model.
2) I am surprised no pvp players have come forward with any ideas on how to avoid fighting other players.
Ideas might include times when population is low.
Campaigns times when various factions may be in power, Etc.
Here is a tip of my own;
Leads are account wide. If you must enter a pvp zone, strategically choose a character and faction that will make it the easiest for you to get the lead.
3) Finally the “Because the leads are in pvp areas they are intended for pvp gameplay” arguments. Beyond the obvious counter argument of “Monster helms and armor sets drop in trials and dungeons, so they are only intended for pve gameplay”, if a player wants “x” that should be justification enough. The “you don’t really need x” argument is hardy the point.
I sure do defend it. ZOS made Cyrodiil and IC a "red is dead" zone. They didn't make the zones "Red is dead unless... (insert whatever excuse to play the innocent victim)". Whether you like it or not, I am a player who will attack solo people. I will attack zergs on the way to the keep. I will attack people fishing. I will attack people fighting in the keeps. Point being, I fight everybody who isn't EP. Why? Because I can. There isn't any rule made by the developers of this game that says I have to leave you alone because you want me to when you are in a pvp zone. None whatsoever.
So yes. Call me whatever. I see you fighting npcs and you are low on health. I'll take that low hanging fruit. If I see a zerg running by and there is a straggler, I'll pick them off to harass the zerg and hopefully get them to chase me to slow down their progress to the keep or resource. It is all part of the game ZOS made. /shrug3 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redgreensunset wrote: »3) Finally the “Because the leads are in pvp areas they are intended for pvp gameplay” arguments. Beyond the obvious counter argument of “Monster helms and armor sets drop in trials and dungeons, so they are only intended for pve gameplay”, if a player wants “x” that should be justification enough. The “you don’t really need x” argument is hardy the point.
Just quoting this one because the "but you don't need some such" is a problem not just for this issue, but on other topics as well. This excuse is used to justify bad game design and bad monetization strategies. "But it's optional!" is a deflection from valid customer complaints about a product. There are a number of questionable design decisions that were incorporated into antiquities. The system looses nothing if some of these PvP/PvE exclusive leads have a secondary source that better appreciates the diverse ways in which customers approach this game - most notably how not everybody wants to do everything. I'm fine with some things being locked behind certain types of content, but I really disagree with doing this for the mythic items and REALLY disagree with requiring customers to make additional purchases to find all leads for things like this.2 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Looking over this thread I am surprised by the reaction of many pvp players.
Here is a short list of some dismaying trends;
1) Defending the exercise of, or even being excited about, attacking pve players who just want to get in and out as fast as possible is not a great look. I don’t see any justification for this other then you dislike other people.
Defending the exclusivity model seems disingenuous when many here seem excited of the thought of killing those players looking for leads.
“Too bad” and “The targeted killing of pve players is fine because pvp” are not compelling arguments for the exclusivity model.
2) I am surprised no pvp players have come forward with any ideas on how to avoid fighting other players.
Ideas might include times when population is low.
Campaigns times when various factions may be in power, Etc.
Here is a tip of my own;
Leads are account wide. If you must enter a pvp zone, strategically choose a character and faction that will make it the easiest for you to get the lead.
3) Finally the “Because the leads are in pvp areas they are intended for pvp gameplay” arguments. Beyond the obvious counter argument of “Monster helms and armor sets drop in trials and dungeons, so they are only intended for pve gameplay”, if a player wants “x” that should be justification enough. The “you don’t really need x” argument is hardy the point.
I actually gave quite a few good tips on how to achieve the goal of obtaining the leads in IC, as did many others. I do not think that trying to "avoid" PVP is the answer though, that is like telling someone to avoid all the trash bosses in order to get their monster helm, it just isn't going to happen.
Almost no players in any PVE content go in under equipped with the wrong skills loaded and then gripe they couldn't achieve their goal. What makes IC/Cyrodiil different? From everything I have read here, some folks are so afraid and have so many PVP hangups, they are not even willing to take even the most basic steps to get what they claim the "need".
I am a PVE player, who dabbles in PVP, I lead a PVE guild that does PVE events. PVP in this game is actually really fun, and after some good experiences with it, my wife and I joined a PVP guild, which made it even more fun! The most fun since DAOC for me, which was the only other game I engaged in PVP in, because like most here, I have had horrible PVP experiences in most games, as I generally suck at it, am not a twitch gamer and end up being fodder.
ESO PVP is completely different than most games, by simply wearing the right gear and joining a group, it is incredibly fun and you don't need to be some PVP god all tricked out to play it and achieve goals. You can't solo a trial to get a lead there, you can't solo a vet dungeon to get a lead there, most folks probably can't solo world bosses to get leads there either, so why does the desire to solo what is basically a group PVP zone carry any weight? Those same players did what was required to obtain their PVE leads, why do they refuse to do so for the couple of leads in IC? Is simply putting on the right equipment and asking for help, too much to ask?7 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BTW, how anyone could have enough hang-ups about something to pass on the 50 transmute stone reward each month, which is obtainable in about 30 minutes of group PVP... is beyond me. I would think everyone would want those, as they are incredibly slow to earn in PVE and you need them constantly. Not to mention you get 4-20 more every day you PVP, so even with a single character you will earn about ~175 transmute stones a month for 30 minutes a day of running around in Cyrodiil.4 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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This activity is not fun. Putting pvp gear will not make it fun. Joining a group will not make it fun. Nothing will make it fun ever. So there is zero reason to do it.Is simply putting on the right equipment and asking for help, too much to ask?
Anniversary event gives many transmute stones.BTW, how anyone could have enough hang-ups about something to pass on the 50 transmute stone reward each month, which is obtainable in about 30 minutes of group PVP... is beyond me.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.4 -
jhnartb14_ESO✭✭✭Most of the regulars in IC are very cool and will help. I live in IC and running in zone chat asking if there is a boss group is the best way to go. Drop rate is rough, but any toon can get it for your account. Just load up a stam something with warrior poet and plague doctor, and bloodspawn, and get i a group. Also some trading guilds run IC as an event. They have 1 or 2 hardcore pvpers and a bunch of pve guildies achievement farming. They will be glad to help you along.0
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Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭redgreensunset wrote: »3) Finally the “Because the leads are in pvp areas they are intended for pvp gameplay” arguments. Beyond the obvious counter argument of “Monster helms and armor sets drop in trials and dungeons, so they are only intended for pve gameplay”, if a player wants “x” that should be justification enough. The “you don’t really need x” argument is hardy the point.
Just quoting this one because the "but you don't need some such" is a problem not just for this issue, but on other topics as well. This excuse is used to justify bad game design and bad monetization strategies. "But it's optional!" is a deflection from valid customer complaints about a product. There are a number of questionable design decisions that were incorporated into antiquities. The system looses nothing if some of these PvP/PvE exclusive leads have a secondary source that better appreciates the diverse ways in which customers approach this game - most notably how not everybody wants to do everything. I'm fine with some things being locked behind certain types of content, but I really disagree with doing this for the mythic items and REALLY disagree with requiring customers to make additional purchases to find all leads for things like this.
Personally, I think the mistake was allowing "Mythic" items, supposedly the most powerful items in the game, to drop anywhere but the hardest content in the game, PVE or PVP. Heck, there are crafting mats and recipes that require doing Trials to obtain, can my character who is only setup and geared for crafting and farming mats get those?!? I could very arguably say (based on this thread) that isn't fair at all. I like crafting and ONLY want to craft, why am I forced to partake in group trials in order to craft!1 -
Cres✭✭✭
Welcome to a MMO, grinding is generally not considered fun regardless of PVP or PVE. Its about going after the dangling carrot. If you want the carrot for whatever reason, you go after it. If not, you don't.
There has been plenty of suggestions here to help you achieve catching the carrot, and suggesting the possibility that you might have fun with it which in your case seems pretty unlikely. Noone else can make you have fun, they can just help you achieve the goal.2 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
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Personally, I do not find Vet Dungeons or Trials very fun, they are a straight up nasty grind to achieve a piece of gear I want for a build and it probably won't drop in the right weight/trait and I will have to endure the pain many times over. That said, I learned rotations, tweaked some well known builds to my own style of play, practiced on training dummies, sucked it up, found 3/11 other people to play with, went in and did them... as painful for me as it was.
That was 100% serious BTW. Is anyone in this thread having to go in to IC to get something they want, different in any way shape or form? No, it isn't.2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
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This activity is not fun. Putting pvp gear will not make it fun. Joining a group will not make it fun. Nothing will make it fun ever. So there is zero reason to do it.Is simply putting on the right equipment and asking for help, too much to ask?
Anniversary event gives many transmute stones.BTW, how anyone could have enough hang-ups about something to pass on the 50 transmute stone reward each month, which is obtainable in about 30 minutes of group PVP... is beyond me.
THIS. there are many ways to get transmute stones. many, maybe even most of us have limited time for leisure activities. spending half an hour of that time on things we actively dislike, and often times PAYING for that privilege (you know, via ESO +) is counterproductive. its like buying something at a grocery store that you never eat, because you hate the taste of it, and/or it makes your stomach hurt - but it was on sale 70% off!dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
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Personally, I do not find Vet Dungeons or Trials very fun, they are a straight up nasty grind to achieve a piece of gear I want for a build and it probably won't drop in the right weight/trait and I will have to endure the pain many times over. That said, I learned rotations, tweaked some well known builds to my own style of play, practiced on training dummies, sucked it up, found 3/11 other people to play with, went in and did them... as painful for me as it was.
That was 100% serious BTW. Is anyone in this thread having to go in to IC to get something they want, different in any way shape or form? No, it isn't.
meanwhile, some of us would rather just tweak the build until it works with gear that does NOT require hours of grinding content WE DO NOT ENJOY DOING.
you feeling compelled to run content you don't like does NOT make it a good design. and no its not different - which is the point! feeling compelled, cajoled, call it whatever - to do content you don't enjoy is NOT a good thing! playing a video game for fun should NOT feel like a chore.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭3) Finally the “Because the leads are in pvp areas they are intended for pvp gameplay” arguments. Beyond the obvious counter argument of “Monster helms and armor sets drop in trials and dungeons, so they are only intended for pve gameplay”, if a player wants “x” that should be justification enough. The “you don’t really need x” argument is hardy the point.
Actually you can buy monster helms and set items from the golden merchant in Cyrodiil for PvP currency. No dungeons required.
On the point of trial gear if you look at the five and three piece bonus on many trial gear sets it only works in trials and arena PvE, meaning the gear is designed and made specifically for trial progression and arena. For example the three piece bonus on a trial drop only set Aegis of Galenwe.
“Minor Aegis at all times, reducing your damage taken from Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%”Edited by Fur_like_snow on June 10, 2020 7:53PM1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
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2) I am surprised no pvp players have come forward with any ideas on how to avoid fighting other players.
Oh, I'm sorry. Let me go ahead and post my guides.
You'll find pretty detailed advice for people who want to avoid PVP or who want to prepare for PVP in each of those guides. The Imperial City one seems rather apt for the topic.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/469835/pvp-for-the-no-pvp-pacifists
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492278/pvpve-during-the-imperial-city-celebration-2019/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509397/midyear-mayhem-2020-for-no-pvp-pacifists-mostly-pvp-free-ways-to-get-your-event-tickets
But you know what else I tell people in those guides?
That they can't expect other players not to fight them in a PVP-enabled zone.Edited by VaranisArano on June 10, 2020 7:49PM4 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
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Personally, I do not find Vet Dungeons or Trials very fun, they are a straight up nasty grind to achieve a piece of gear I want for a build and it probably won't drop in the right weight/trait and I will have to endure the pain many times over. That said, I learned rotations, tweaked some well known builds to my own style of play, practiced on training dummies, sucked it up, found 3/11 other people to play with, went in and did them... as painful for me as it was.
That was 100% serious BTW. Is anyone in this thread having to go in to IC to get something they want, different in any way shape or form? No, it isn't.
meanwhile, some of us would rather just tweak the build until it works with gear that does NOT require hours of grinding content WE DO NOT ENJOY DOING.
you feeling compelled to run content you don't like does NOT make it a good design. and no its not different - which is the point! feeling compelled, cajoled, call it whatever - to do content you don't enjoy is NOT a good thing! playing a video game for fun should NOT feel like a chore.
As I have ended up doing as well, I still do not have all the monster helms that would complete some of my characters sets, and have long since given up even trying. I am counting on them one day being available on the Golden, which is how I obtained most of the monster sets I currently have. I do not need an item to the point of if I hate doing that content, I have to do it. I have been waiting over a year for the Golden to have what I want, maybe the folks that dislike IC so much should do the same. Maybe sometime in the future, those items will be available at a huge cost by some other means and they can just wait if they dislike entering a PVP zone so much. I like trading, crafting, overland content, public dungeons, helping friends get their gear and pretty much anything else I can relax while doing, like PVP. Having to learn/memorize a slew of different mechanics for every vet dungeon and trial, is not my idea of relaxation or fun. It wasn't fun in Mario Brothers and it isn't fun here.0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Game is forcing. If I need something from IC you must enter it. The same is about any other content.
The difference is if you need a stuff from boss in, lets say, Rift you have to kill that boss. If you need stuff from IC you have try to kill the boss and die dozens of time from people who attack you from back.
If I am standing in the farest corner, killing mobs and constantly getting backstabbed by players who just passing by I dont see them doing that not from joy of killing other player but from challenge of doing quest in a hard environment. I would never attack other player who is busy with ones own questing. But from your post I see that there are people who believe that killing player who is just standing in a corner is a challenge.... Hope you dont overwork doing that...
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
See, there you go again, the game isn't forcing anything on you and you don't "need" anything, you desire it. How can you need something that didn't even exist a month ago and you did fine without?
But yes, if you are going to enter a group PVP zone, totally unprepared as a solo player, it will not bode well for you. You don't even need to be targeted, as almost all PVP is about tossing as many AE's around as possible, so you will be collateral damage no matter what, especially if you are wearing PVE gear and basically have zero defense against other players.
If you really desire that item so much, then why are you not willing to take even the most basic steps to help yourself get it? You didn't run out to kill the boss mobs in vet dungeons for their items naked, so why would you expect that to work in IC or Cyrodiil?
Take a few simple steps and your experience will be completely different in those zones:- Get the right gear, even a green set is better than a gold PVE setup. Optionally, depending on your class, make an unkillable setup if you don't care about damaging other players. It took 6 of us a full minute to take down one solo guy yesterday, its doable.
- Don't run out solo, you are simply fodder then. Every PVP zone has a safe area, from which you can join groups. My guild has open groups running quite often when we are playing. Grouping with 20 other players who are in IC for the same reason and helping each other get the leads, is a lot more effective than trying to solo for them and chances are, you will not die so much.
- Join a PVP guild, they are not what you think. Mine is the second largest DC guild and our times together are a blast, they are really funny, super helpful and welcome everyone. According to our recruit message, we are "Casual" and my experience with them over the past couple of months agrees. They are very good casuals though, we win most of the time against overwhelming forces because we work together and use strategies. Sundays are for IC farming, my wife got her lead after about 30 minutes of us running around. I didn't, but I don't desire that lead anyways, so no biggy, I was there to just help.
Its pretty simple stuff. You don't do trials or vet dungeons in overland farming gear, so get the right gear for the job at the very least and maybe then your argument might carry some weight.
So the steps I should make are:
- spend time to get special gear
- change skills at shrine
- learn how to use them
- leave trade/pve guild
- join pvp guild
- collect people who will help me with quests
- spend ~30 min to do questline
- leave pvp guild
- join back trade/pve guild
- change skills back at shrine
- throw gear away
Anything forgotten?
I originally wanted to say something else but that'd probably get edited for baiting, so let's try another approach.
Let's have a closer look at those gankers (also are we still on gankers or just ANY PvPers trying to PvP in a PvP zone at this point?) They didn't just log into the game on day 1 with 50k one-hit damage, you know. They
- leveled up a character (possibly with ideal race/class setup, a lot of people actually level dedicated chars for special roles such as this, so it's possible they actually had to level from scratch there, or at least pay for a race change on already existing character)
- theorycrafted or looked up a build (since ganking is a primarily solo activity, this gets a lot more important than when running with a crowd)
- set up their skills and gear into at least somewhat viable setup to farm PvE for the required gear, a lot of which tends to be BoP
- had to join a PvE guild in order to run dungeons to farm that special gear
- had to leave a PvP/trade guild in order to join that PvE guild for farming gear
- spent the time to get special gear (which may have taken quite a while given this gear is likely BoP and may even include (v)MA stuff)
- had to leave that PvE guild
- had to join back that PvP/trade guild
- set up their skills a special way, which likely eradicates their usefulness in any other role, meaning any time they wanna do something different they have to change skills at the shrine
- crafted fancy potions (which is far from cheap btw)
- died quite a few times trying to learn to do it properly (given ganking is a solo activity for the most part, there's no hope for a crowd support to fall back to there)
- spent their time waiting for that perfect occasion (I have seen oh so many a gank fail when tried at the wrong moment)
- etc (I do not actually have a gank character so there may be more to it; someone more experienced please correct me if I got anything wrong)
...and all of this just so they could go and have a shot at quickly killing someone like you. Or me. Or anyone else for that matter, just because this is their preferred activity in a PvP zone.
Now tell me...what is it that makes YOUR time so much more valueable and important than THEIR time that all their efforts should be nullified just so you don't have to put any in?
*shakes head* I never thought we'd come to this...me, of all people, defending ganking, a playstyle I have always hated with passion. But here we go.
You miss the reason. Its around the middle. "~30 minutes to do quest".
If people you describe do all of that for 30 minutes of ganking I envy them for the amount of free time they have
This'd hold merit had this been the first, only and completely unique occurence. Like, wow, never before has this madness been seen and now SUDDENLY ZOS placed PvE stuff in PvP zone. But this is not, and every time this happens (and on a set interval when this doesn't) we get another one of those 'I hate this playstyle so there should be no content for it' threads.
There have been PvE quests in Cyrodiil towns since LAUNCH. There have been skyshards in Cyrodiil, some of them locked behind enemy gates, also since launch. IC has been added after launch and it's been added as a mix of PvE and PvP, and in all the time that's passed since then, there has been no PvE-only version added but instead - wow, would you look at that! - they have actually added something vaguely PvE-related (leads) in there. I don't think this is the last time either.
It's time you accept this, Zenimax WANTS people in this game to try out PvP. This is their view of the game - PvE-ers trying out PvP. And yes, it works, I know plenty of people who came to PvP from pure PvE for whatever reason (questing, skyshards, whatever) and then stayed there because they grew to like it. Personally, I like it, I think it's good for the health of the game. You clearly don't like that approach, that's fair enough. But in the end of the day, what matters is what Zenimax likes and they have shown time and again they want to encourage people to PvP and they think this strategy is good for their game. Personally, again, I agree with them - even in this thread you can see people acknowledging they went to Cyro with friends/prepared and actually liked it, this is exactly what this is for. You're of course entitled to your opinion, but you're also entitled to a choice - if you don't like the content, you don't do it. It is really as simple as that. There're things locked behind every type of content in this game, including fishing, this is how they encourage players to try all types of content and this is not going to change any time soon.
If you want something locked behind certain content badly enough to overcome your dislike for the content - get prepared and do it, them toxic PvP'ers have given you a gazillion good advices on how to do it in the easiest and quickest way possible but you don't want advice, you just want things to be the way you want them because that's how you want them.
This whole argument, in fact this whole thread seems to come down to this:
- I don't want to do this content
- So don't do it
- BUT I'M FORCED TO
- Okay, then here's what you can do...
- BUT I DON'T WANT TO
I don't understand this issue. It's like you're eating a cactus. You know, no one is actually forcing you to eat a cactus. But for some weird reason you choose to continue eating it and cry how much it hurts. I'm sorry but this is on you.
Edited by Magdalina on June 10, 2020 9:04PM5 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Except I am not
This whole argument, in fact this whole thread seems to come down to this:
- I don't want to do this content
- So don't do it
- BUT I'M FORCED TO
I don't understand this issue. It's like you're eating a cactus. You know, no one is actually forcing you to eat a cactus. But for some weird reason you choose to continue eating it and cry how much it hurts. I'm sorry but this is on you. Yes, ZOS is forcing me to do content I don't like. No, I am not doing it no matter the rewards. ZOS can give a whole house in the IC for going into IC, I will not do this. Yes, I am telling that this concept of forcing is wrong even if it doesn't work at me. This whole thread is about this. That this is wrong (and it is wrong no matter what side is forced, PVE into IC or PVP into (n/v)MA). The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.3 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Except I am not
This whole argument, in fact this whole thread seems to come down to this:
- I don't want to do this content
- So don't do it
- BUT I'M FORCED TO
I don't understand this issue. It's like you're eating a cactus. You know, no one is actually forcing you to eat a cactus. But for some weird reason you choose to continue eating it and cry how much it hurts. I'm sorry but this is on you. Yes, ZOS is forcing me to do content I don't like. No, I am not doing it no matter the rewards. ZOS can give a whole house in the IC for going into IC, I will not do this. Yes, I am telling that this concept of forcing is wrong even if it doesn't work at me. This whole thread is about this. That this is wrong (and it is wrong no matter what side is forced, PVE into IC or PVP into (n/v)MA).
This is good on you then, at least you're consistent
Is it also wrong then that there're BoP sets only acquireable from dungeons? Moreover, monster sets only acquireable from vet dungeons? Sets only acquireable from trials? Skins and titles only acquireable from vet dungeons/trials achievements? Hell, is this wrong that there's a furnishing locked behind Master Angler achievement? You know, I'd kind of like to have that boat but I can't stomach the idea of all that fishing...
Actually, if you spread this idea, there're also things locked behind questing. Like some titles and mementos and even pets you get for completing certain quests/quest chains. But surely not everyone likes all that questing. How is this fair on them?2 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
First, I think it is wrong that the only two boats are locked behind vet trial and fishing with pvp (fishing is already unsufferable grind to my taste, and with pvp it is a joke). Murkmire ones are too alien for almost any design except swamp house.
Except I am not
This whole argument, in fact this whole thread seems to come down to this:
- I don't want to do this content
- So don't do it
- BUT I'M FORCED TO
I don't understand this issue. It's like you're eating a cactus. You know, no one is actually forcing you to eat a cactus. But for some weird reason you choose to continue eating it and cry how much it hurts. I'm sorry but this is on you. Yes, ZOS is forcing me to do content I don't like. No, I am not doing it no matter the rewards. ZOS can give a whole house in the IC for going into IC, I will not do this. Yes, I am telling that this concept of forcing is wrong even if it doesn't work at me. This whole thread is about this. That this is wrong (and it is wrong no matter what side is forced, PVE into IC or PVP into (n/v)MA).
This is good on you then, at least you're consistent
Is it also wrong then that there're BoP sets only acquireable from dungeons? Moreover, monster sets only acquireable from vet dungeons? Sets only acquireable from trials? Skins and titles only acquireable from vet dungeons/trials achievements? Hell, is this wrong that there's a furnishing locked behind Master Angler achievement? You know, I'd kind of like to have that boat but I can't stomach the idea of all that fishing...
Actually, if you spread this idea, there're also things locked behind questing. Like some titles and mementos and even pets you get for completing certain quests/quest chains. But surely not everyone likes all that questing. How is this fair on them?
Second, I think that it is OK for titles to be locked behind specific content, because titles are very specific too. The same with trophies and busts, it is OK for them to be locked, because these furnishings represent your activity. The same with catapult furnishings, because they represent pvp activity. The same with motifs and outfit pages, if (and only if) they are connected with the activity.
Third, I think there should be no BoP sets. But at the same time I think that there are so many sets now that it is possible to find a replacement that is not ideal, but good enough. I was thinking of getting winterborn first, but then grind was too huge and I replaced it with Julianos (or I could use Ysgramor to reinforce the ice theme). It is not working with mythics (there are too few of them and they are too different) and with most furnishings (you can't replace Alessia with the Nerevar and you can't replace dragon with guar). What is more important, locked sets are usually (at least in pve) connected with the content. It is logical that to get a head of Skoria you need to kill Skoria. Still, I think that Golden is a good addition.
Concluding, I can say that I am against things being locked behind some content, but if it is locked, then there should be clear connection between the content and the locked thing. This connection will at least mask forcing players into every type of content.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Personally, I do not find Vet Dungeons or Trials very fun, they are a straight up nasty grind to achieve a piece of gear I want for a build and it probably won't drop in the right weight/trait and I will have to endure the pain many times over. That said, I learned rotations, tweaked some well known builds to my own style of play, practiced on training dummies, sucked it up, found 3/11 other people to play with, went in and did them... as painful for me as it was.
That was 100% serious BTW. Is anyone in this thread having to go in to IC to get something they want, different in any way shape or form? No, it isn't.
meanwhile, some of us would rather just tweak the build until it works with gear that does NOT require hours of grinding content WE DO NOT ENJOY DOING.
you feeling compelled to run content you don't like does NOT make it a good design. and no its not different - which is the point! feeling compelled, cajoled, call it whatever - to do content you don't enjoy is NOT a good thing! playing a video game for fun should NOT feel like a chore.
As I have ended up doing as well, I still do not have all the monster helms that would complete some of my characters sets, and have long since given up even trying. I am counting on them one day being available on the Golden, which is how I obtained most of the monster sets I currently have. I do not need an item to the point of if I hate doing that content, I have to do it. I have been waiting over a year for the Golden to have what I want, maybe the folks that dislike IC so much should do the same. Maybe sometime in the future, those items will be available at a huge cost by some other means and they can just wait if they dislike entering a PVP zone so much. I like trading, crafting, overland content, public dungeons, helping friends get their gear and pretty much anything else I can relax while doing, like PVP. Having to learn/memorize a slew of different mechanics for every vet dungeon and trial, is not my idea of relaxation or fun. It wasn't fun in Mario Brothers and it isn't fun here.
at least you have golden (which to be fair i've used myself a LOT, since you can buy things for gold or AP) there are no other options for antiquities yet. but... if those other options to show up at all? desire for them, demand even MUST be stated.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Except I am not
This whole argument, in fact this whole thread seems to come down to this:
- I don't want to do this content
- So don't do it
- BUT I'M FORCED TO
I don't understand this issue. It's like you're eating a cactus. You know, no one is actually forcing you to eat a cactus. But for some weird reason you choose to continue eating it and cry how much it hurts. I'm sorry but this is on you. Yes, ZOS is forcing me to do content I don't like. No, I am not doing it no matter the rewards. ZOS can give a whole house in the IC for going into IC, I will not do this. Yes, I am telling that this concept of forcing is wrong even if it doesn't work at me. This whole thread is about this. That this is wrong (and it is wrong no matter what side is forced, PVE into IC or PVP into (n/v)MA).
This is good on you then, at least you're consistent
Is it also wrong then that there're BoP sets only acquireable from dungeons? Moreover, monster sets only acquireable from vet dungeons? Sets only acquireable from trials? Skins and titles only acquireable from vet dungeons/trials achievements? Hell, is this wrong that there's a furnishing locked behind Master Angler achievement? You know, I'd kind of like to have that boat but I can't stomach the idea of all that fishing...
Actually, if you spread this idea, there're also things locked behind questing. Like some titles and mementos and even pets you get for completing certain quests/quest chains. But surely not everyone likes all that questing. How is this fair on them?
there is one key difference.
these other rewards tend to be locked between one specific type of content. mythics are locked behind 5 different types of content that are mixed up all over the place, so its all too easy to end up with an incomplete item. IMO - they should have kept them consistent and if something is meant for pvp - it can ONLY be acquired through pvp/pvp zones. for example. Cyrodill only furnishings. and if its meant for pve? it should ONLY be aquired through pve. you know... for the sake of consistency.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Except I am not
This whole argument, in fact this whole thread seems to come down to this:
- I don't want to do this content
- So don't do it
- BUT I'M FORCED TO
I don't understand this issue. It's like you're eating a cactus. You know, no one is actually forcing you to eat a cactus. But for some weird reason you choose to continue eating it and cry how much it hurts. I'm sorry but this is on you. Yes, ZOS is forcing me to do content I don't like. No, I am not doing it no matter the rewards. ZOS can give a whole house in the IC for going into IC, I will not do this. Yes, I am telling that this concept of forcing is wrong even if it doesn't work at me. This whole thread is about this. That this is wrong (and it is wrong no matter what side is forced, PVE into IC or PVP into (n/v)MA).
They are not forcing you to do anything, as has been pointed out a many times. Even the post you quoted told you, there is content locked behind every aspect of the game, and many people do not like all those aspects of the game, it is their choice now on whether to do it or not.
You can't go to Burger King because you like their burgers better, yet expect to receive a Happy Meal toy, life doesn't work like that.
It is also blazingly obvious that Zenimax's entire point of the whole scrying system was to get people back trying every single activity in the game, in order to bring new life to many of those long forgotten areas or give players new experiences they may not have tried yet. I seriously doubt they are going to change anything just because a subset of players have an issue with PVP, since their entire point was to try and temp you to give ALL those activities another try.
FYI, thousands of PVEers have gotten their leads in IC, while we have been going back and forth on this thread! 3 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agenericname wrote: »Looking over this thread I am surprised by the reaction of many pvp players.
Here is a short list of some dismaying trends;
1) Defending the exercise of, or even being excited about, attacking pve players who just want to get in and out as fast as possible is not a great look. I don’t see any justification for this other then you dislike other people.
Defending the exclusivity model seems disingenuous when many here seem excited of the thought of killing those players looking for leads.
“Too bad” and “The targeted killing of pve players is fine because pvp” are not compelling arguments for the exclusivity model.
2) I am surprised no pvp players have come forward with any ideas on how to avoid fighting other players.
Ideas might include times when population is low.
Campaigns times when various factions may be in power, Etc.
Here is a tip of my own;
Leads are account wide. If you must enter a pvp zone, strategically choose a character and faction that will make it the easiest for you to get the lead.
3) Finally the “Because the leads are in pvp areas they are intended for pvp gameplay” arguments. Beyond the obvious counter argument of “Monster helms and armor sets drop in trials and dungeons, so they are only intended for pve gameplay”, if a player wants “x” that should be justification enough. The “you don’t really need x” argument is hardy the point.
If they ask, I will and often do offer tips and sometimes go with them. If their first course of action is to attempt to label me a villain because I play in that content, then, no. That's mostly what this thread has been. Its not a "help" thread, it's a bash thread. It started with the OP was edited for baiting.
Enjoy your time in IC
^This. I also find the usage of a couple of people's baiting statements not enough reason to malign the character of anyone who partakes in the game mode just as toxic as the people they're trying to condemn. It furthers the narrative of the divide, it's not constructive in anyway, and it's an appeal to emotion simply because they don't want to get attacked in PvP while they get their lead. Yet what do the PvPers do? Offer up a ton of wonderful advice while being virtually spat on in the thread.2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »That would have been true if IC and Cirodiil were pure pvp locations. No NPC, no quests, no mobs, no bosses. Only other pvp-lovers who enjoy each other.
But that is not true. If I am forced to go there to kill a boss that does not mean I am there for pvp.
Thought I like the idea of locking all pvpers in there own jar so they deal purely with other pvp-lovers...
Most "pvp lovers" as you call them, play a well rounded game of PVE and PVP and like everyone else, had to run vet dungeons, trials and scry like mad to earn their gear. Honestly, it is the pure PVE players who are in a jar, put there by themselves and gripe when they have to leave the jar and experience the other half of the game. I can't remember the last time I saw a thread from someone who enjoys PVP, griping about having to enter a PVE zone to earn gear.
Enjoy the whole game, or enjoy half, that is a personal choice, no one is "forcing you" to go anywhere or do anything. You desiring something is also a personal issue, you made the choice to want it, knowing good and well what was required to get it and you apparently do not like what you see as the only option, when in reality, there are many option available to you, that you have simply chosen to ignore.
Why would removing all NPC's, quests, skyshards and everything else make those areas "pure", seems to me it would just make them boring. You thinking that gamers who enjoy PVP just want to kill each other and that is all they enjoy, is just your preconceived notion, with absolutely zero basis in fact. In reality, most of those players simply enjoy a challenge that a pre-programmed game mechanic can not yet deliver. AI just isn't at that point yet, but when it is, the PVE zones will be just like PVP zones today, with smart mobs making smart choices and you being able to walk up and whack them dead in a couple blows will be a thing of the past. I suspect you are going to hate it.
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
No thanks, the game is full of safe zones already, we don't need to mess with the only 2 zones left in this game where people have to take care of themselves (not counting battlegrounds since there are no quests or mats to farm there). If that happened IC would become a pve zone with some people just dueling.
If you want something from a zone prepare for it or don't go, no one is forcing you to pvp.
So, if you take away the fan of backstabbing a pve passerby that would kill pvp in game?
That tells alot about local pvp
What kills PvPvE zones like Imperial City, where one of the central mechanics is farming NPCs for Tel Var then being able to fight other players to take their Tel Var, is allowing players to reap all of the rewards with none of the risks.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens to the Tel Var economy when you let people flag themselves as safe and still farm for rewards.
I'd be fine with a "No- PVP flag" so you can have your story mode BUT you have to give up all the rewards. No Tel Var, no AP, no skyshards, no achievements. Nothing that ZOS fully intended for you to get while experiencing the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone.
So yeah, that's gonna include no leads. Because ZOS didn't "forget" that Imperial City is a PvPvE zone. And as far as ESO is concerned, not your other game, its really not fair for you to get the same rewards as people who did the content as intended while you take on none of the risk.
No problem. Want to farm TV, AP => be PvP, want to do story-mode => be non-PvP.
Will that ruine anything?
Like I said, I'd be fine with a reward-less story mode that disables all gains from a PvPvE zone if you disable PVP. If you are also fine with that, it sounds like we agree! That would solve a lot of the "I just want to experience all the stories!" problems. A rewardless story mode for dungeons and trials would be cool, for much the same reasons.
I find its mostly a problem with rewards. Its mostly folks feeling "forced" into PVP-enabled zones while looking for certain rewards, and then feeling very aggrieved when PVP happens and prevents them from getting their rewards as easily as they'd like. Like, take that up with ZOS. Just realize that ZOS intentionally put those rewards in a PVP-enabled zone despite hearing these same complaints every single time they put any rewards in a PVP activity. They know and intended for you to risk fighting other players for those rewards.
In the case of leads, yeah, ZOS didn't forget that Imperial City is a PvPvE zone. As aggravating as some players might find it to be prevented from getting that reward as easily as they'd like, ZOS is obviously okay with it.
The thing is, all the Story parts of IC are already in safe areas. It's just the going to and from that you are at risk of being attacked.The Moot Councillor1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
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Except I am not
This whole argument, in fact this whole thread seems to come down to this:
- I don't want to do this content
- So don't do it
- BUT I'M FORCED TO
I don't understand this issue. It's like you're eating a cactus. You know, no one is actually forcing you to eat a cactus. But for some weird reason you choose to continue eating it and cry how much it hurts. I'm sorry but this is on you. Yes, ZOS is forcing me to do content I don't like. No, I am not doing it no matter the rewards. ZOS can give a whole house in the IC for going into IC, I will not do this. Yes, I am telling that this concept of forcing is wrong even if it doesn't work at me. This whole thread is about this. That this is wrong (and it is wrong no matter what side is forced, PVE into IC or PVP into (n/v)MA).
This is good on you then, at least you're consistent
Is it also wrong then that there're BoP sets only acquireable from dungeons? Moreover, monster sets only acquireable from vet dungeons? Sets only acquireable from trials? Skins and titles only acquireable from vet dungeons/trials achievements? Hell, is this wrong that there's a furnishing locked behind Master Angler achievement? You know, I'd kind of like to have that boat but I can't stomach the idea of all that fishing...
Actually, if you spread this idea, there're also things locked behind questing. Like some titles and mementos and even pets you get for completing certain quests/quest chains. But surely not everyone likes all that questing. How is this fair on them?
there is one key difference.
these other rewards tend to be locked between one specific type of content. mythics are locked behind 5 different types of content that are mixed up all over the place, so its all too easy to end up with an incomplete item. IMO - they should have kept them consistent and if something is meant for pvp - it can ONLY be acquired through pvp/pvp zones. for example. Cyrodill only furnishings. and if its meant for pve? it should ONLY be aquired through pve. you know... for the sake of consistency.
You know, the most avid PvPers I know are also the best housing decorators. So I think it makes sense that there is one furnishing Antiquity in Cyrodiil/ICThe Moot Councillor2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
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Except I am not
This whole argument, in fact this whole thread seems to come down to this:
- I don't want to do this content
- So don't do it
- BUT I'M FORCED TO
I don't understand this issue. It's like you're eating a cactus. You know, no one is actually forcing you to eat a cactus. But for some weird reason you choose to continue eating it and cry how much it hurts. I'm sorry but this is on you. Yes, ZOS is forcing me to do content I don't like. No, I am not doing it no matter the rewards. ZOS can give a whole house in the IC for going into IC, I will not do this. Yes, I am telling that this concept of forcing is wrong even if it doesn't work at me. This whole thread is about this. That this is wrong (and it is wrong no matter what side is forced, PVE into IC or PVP into (n/v)MA).
This is good on you then, at least you're consistent
Is it also wrong then that there're BoP sets only acquireable from dungeons? Moreover, monster sets only acquireable from vet dungeons? Sets only acquireable from trials? Skins and titles only acquireable from vet dungeons/trials achievements? Hell, is this wrong that there's a furnishing locked behind Master Angler achievement? You know, I'd kind of like to have that boat but I can't stomach the idea of all that fishing...
Actually, if you spread this idea, there're also things locked behind questing. Like some titles and mementos and even pets you get for completing certain quests/quest chains. But surely not everyone likes all that questing. How is this fair on them?
there is one key difference.
these other rewards tend to be locked between one specific type of content. mythics are locked behind 5 different types of content that are mixed up all over the place, so its all too easy to end up with an incomplete item. IMO - they should have kept them consistent and if something is meant for pvp - it can ONLY be acquired through pvp/pvp zones. for example. Cyrodill only furnishings. and if its meant for pve? it should ONLY be aquired through pve. you know... for the sake of consistency.
You know, the most avid PvPers I know are also the best housing decorators. So I think it makes sense that there is one furnishing Antiquity in Cyrodiil/IC
I have zero problem with that, personaly. I'm fine with certain costumes being pvp only (both the ones that are tradable and the ones that are not) i'm fine with plethora of furnishings being behind pvp. and there is a VERy nice brazier that requires IC achievements to buy and can only be bought with Tel var stones.
and yes a chunk of people does pvp and pve. but... in this case.. they mixed them up in a much more integral way. where its multiple leads for a single item and those leads come with both modes. they are no longer kept separate.
also - not all IC story bits are in safe areas, and doing the things that advance the store are mostly not in safe areas.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1
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