Leads in IC; if you wanted us to hate PvP even more... this was it
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Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »That would have been true if IC and Cirodiil were pure pvp locations. No NPC, no quests, no mobs, no bosses. Only other pvp-lovers who enjoy each other.
But that is not true. If I am forced to go there to kill a boss that does not mean I am there for pvp.
Thought I like the idea of locking all pvpers in there own jar so they deal purely with other pvp-lovers...
Most "pvp lovers" as you call them, play a well rounded game of PVE and PVP and like everyone else, had to run vet dungeons, trials and scry like mad to earn their gear. Honestly, it is the pure PVE players who are in a jar, put there by themselves and gripe when they have to leave the jar and experience the other half of the game. I can't remember the last time I saw a thread from someone who enjoys PVP, griping about having to enter a PVE zone to earn gear.
Enjoy the whole game, or enjoy half, that is a personal choice, no one is "forcing you" to go anywhere or do anything. You desiring something is also a personal issue, you made the choice to want it, knowing good and well what was required to get it and you apparently do not like what you see as the only option, when in reality, there are many option available to you, that you have simply chosen to ignore.
Why would removing all NPC's, quests, skyshards and everything else make those areas "pure", seems to me it would just make them boring. You thinking that gamers who enjoy PVP just want to kill each other and that is all they enjoy, is just your preconceived notion, with absolutely zero basis in fact. In reality, most of those players simply enjoy a challenge that a pre-programmed game mechanic can not yet deliver. AI just isn't at that point yet, but when it is, the PVE zones will be just like PVP zones today, with smart mobs making smart choices and you being able to walk up and whack them dead in a couple blows will be a thing of the past. I suspect you are going to hate it.
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
No thanks, the game is full of safe zones already, we don't need to mess with the only 2 zones left in this game where people have to take care of themselves (not counting battlegrounds since there are no quests or mats to farm there). If that happened IC would become a pve zone with some people just dueling.
If you want something from a zone prepare for it or don't go, no one is forcing you to pvp.
So, if you take away the fan of backstabbing a pve passerby that would kill pvp in game?
That tells alot about local pvp
What kills PvPvE zones like Imperial City, where one of the central mechanics is farming NPCs for Tel Var then being able to fight other players to take their Tel Var, is allowing players to reap all of the rewards with none of the risks.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens to the Tel Var economy when you let people flag themselves as safe and still farm for rewards.
I'd be fine with a "No- PVP flag" so you can have your story mode BUT you have to give up all the rewards. No Tel Var, no AP, no skyshards, no achievements. Nothing that ZOS fully intended for you to get while experiencing the risk of PVP in a PvPvE zone.
So yeah, that's gonna include no leads. Because ZOS didn't "forget" that Imperial City is a PvPvE zone. And as far as ESO is concerned, not your other game, its really not fair for you to get the same rewards as people who did the content as intended while you take on none of the risk.
No problem. Want to farm TV, AP => be PvP, want to do story-mode => be non-PvP.
Will that ruine anything?
Like I said, I'd be fine with a reward-less story mode that disables all gains from a PvPvE zone if you disable PVP. If you are also fine with that, it sounds like we agree! That would solve a lot of the "I just want to experience all the stories!" problems. A rewardless story mode for dungeons and trials would be cool, for much the same reasons.
I find its mostly a problem with rewards. Its mostly folks feeling "forced" into PVP-enabled zones while looking for certain rewards, and then feeling very aggrieved when PVP happens and prevents them from getting their rewards as easily as they'd like. Like, take that up with ZOS. Just realize that ZOS intentionally put those rewards in a PVP-enabled zone despite hearing these same complaints every single time they put any rewards in a PVP activity. They know and intended for you to risk fighting other players for those rewards.
In the case of leads, yeah, ZOS didn't forget that Imperial City is a PvPvE zone. As aggravating as some players might find it to be prevented from getting that reward as easily as they'd like, ZOS is obviously okay with it.
personaly I would LOVE this. SWTOR does something very similar (its not completely rewardless, but rewards are minimal and it has its own set of achievements) and it takes sooooo much of the pressure off. you do the story in solo mode so you can do it as immersively as you'd like, so that when/if you go to further modes - you don't feel like you are missing out on anything.
as for the leads in IC.... people don't like going to IC. ZoS makes it free. people STILL don't like going there. ZoS adds more rewards to cajole players to go there. its not going to work long term. most people simply don't like IC. and I personaly don't know any way to change it in a way that doesn't make it less fun for a few people who do like it.
P.S. I avoid IC like a plague not because of "fear mongering threads like this one" but because I used to go there and personal experiences even with "helpful" people soured me so much on it that I am willing to forgo any and all rewards no matter how tempting to keep staying away from that place.Edited by Linaleah on June 10, 2020 2:46PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »And some players do both PvP and PvE but the way you’re describing it assumes it’s one or the other. Basically your comments don’t encourage players to try out a mode they have no experience with. I’ve helped players get their leads since the DLC dropped their was nothing exploitive or “sucking the willingness” about it. You’re just acting creepy about a game mode you obviously don’t enjoy but that’s your personal perspective.
And I’ll continue to help PvE players get their leads which is much more than the anti-PvP crowd can say they’ve done to help. How many of you have actually stepped into IC since the patch and can say firsthand what it was like?
Agreed. The way it sounds is like anyone who PvPs is a vicious psychic vampire who will stop at nothing to ruin everyone's day simply because of a game mode. That's the epitome of fear-mongering.
It is?BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!StamPlar_1976 wrote: »Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
Oh but gankers do care! They love to harrass someone who won't fight back. I LOVE the actual PVP'ers, the ones I played with during MYM, who worked together to accomplish something and were very nice and welcoming to a PVE'er who had no idea what she was doing for a solid few hours.
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
You were red. In a pvp zone. It is there right to attack you. They did. You knew going there that the possibility of being attacked was there. I don't see the issue. There isn't any rule whatsoever that says they have to leave you alone because you don't feel like pvping. Don't want to get attacked, don't go there. How hard is that to understand?
Hmmm... 🤔
Right, so you can't gank or PvP in a PvP zone. Thems the rules now.
Just wondering if it’s “fear mongering” if there appears that be pvp players in this thread who are quite happy at the thought of attacking pve players going after leads.Edited by BlueRaven on June 10, 2020 2:46PM7 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »And some players do both PvP and PvE but the way you’re describing it assumes it’s one or the other. Basically your comments don’t encourage players to try out a mode they have no experience with. I’ve helped players get their leads since the DLC dropped their was nothing exploitive or “sucking the willingness” about it. You’re just acting creepy about a game mode you obviously don’t enjoy but that’s your personal perspective.
And I’ll continue to help PvE players get their leads which is much more than the anti-PvP crowd can say they’ve done to help. How many of you have actually stepped into IC since the patch and can say firsthand what it was like?
Agreed. The way it sounds is like anyone who PvPs is a vicious psychic vampire who will stop at nothing to ruin everyone's day simply because of a game mode. That's the epitome of fear-mongering.
It is?BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!StamPlar_1976 wrote: »Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
Oh but gankers do care! They love to harrass someone who won't fight back. I LOVE the actual PVP'ers, the ones I played with during MYM, who worked together to accomplish something and were very nice and welcoming to a PVE'er who had no idea what she was doing for a solid few hours.
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
You were red. In a pvp zone. It is there right to attack you. They did. You knew going there that the possibility of being attacked was there. I don't see the issue. There isn't any rule whatsoever that says they have to leave you alone because you don't feel like pvping. Don't want to get attacked, don't go there. How hard is that to understand?
Hmmm... 🤔
Right, so you can't gank or PvP in a PvP zone. Thems the rules now.
Just wondering if it’s “fear mongering” if there appears that be pvp players in this thread who are quite happy at the thought of attacking pve players going after leads.
So two people who are 'excited' about ganking people who are complaining gives someone the right to malign the character of an entire community surrounded by a game mode rather than the individuals in question. Wow. And PvPers are toxic? Pot, meet kettle.Edited by Sephyr on June 10, 2020 2:54PM6 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Sirona_Starr wrote: »Since antiquities is a PVE activity, putting leads in PVP is just a guaranteed frustration. If they were going to put PVE activity leads in PVP, then they should have put the leads, especially the IC ones, in safe zones, where all factions can do the pve thing without gankers and other sorts around. That makes sense.
But the Mythic items (which are the ones that have some leads in IC) are mostly a PvP build thing, so I think it's perfectly fine for them to be in a zone that has the risk of PvP.
I'll get them all eventually. I'm just not in a hurry to get them all in a week or two.
A) No not really, most antiquities gear are both pvp and pve.
B ) There is more to Antiquities then gear.
No serious DD is running the band in trials. It IS a PvP mythic.
Uh huh.
I have a very defensive orientated tank who has abysmal damage. The ring would be great for dailies and the like. I am sure there are healers who would like the damage increase for dailies as well.
I do dungeons and trials at most 3-4 times a week. The other times I am doing overland content. The extra dps would make doing that much less tedious. (Or they can buff tank dps back to what it used to be which would be nice.)
Sshh you! She said "serious." Players who play in pools like ours aren't "serious."
Frankly, they can keep their "serious" pool. I think they put the wrong sign on their pool, but... eh, they can call it what they want. I think I'll call mine the "seriously fun" pool...
Yeah, the numbers of people who do pvp and the numbers who do “serious” end game pve are incredibly small. It’s odd how many people only view the game through their tiny section of the game.
I don't think you're right on 'incredibly small', it seems this community has actually grown over the years, but you're definitely right about this being a smaller part of the playerbase than 'casual' players. And of course, there's nothing wrong with being casual, and your opinions are important, HOWEVER...
On the casual (open world questing, RP, housing, normal dungeons perhaps, etc) level a huge number of game design choices are simply irrelevant. ZOS can go and, say, buff Crystal Frags raw damage by 300% tomorrow and just throw all of the game's competitive PvE and PvP to hell, but this would have close to 0 effect on your ability to quest etc. Playing casually gives you more freedom because you can choose suboptimal skills and sets just for their looks, but it means you get no say on the game balance because you simply don't know much about it, you don't know what optimal setups there are out there, how they work with each other, what kind of content they're more effective in and which of them are over- and under- performing - and, ultimately, most of this doesn't matter to you as it doesn't concern your gamestyle.
It's impossible to balance the game around every random setup someone might like, so it is getting balanced, and design choices are being made, around how *optimal* setups work with each other and the world. If you want to put it this way, around 'serious' PvE and PvP. And that logic, among other things, does in fact dictate that Malacath's Band is much more useful for PvP than PvE. Does this mean it can't be used in PvE, especially when soloing? No, absolutely not. Does this mean it must be wholly put in PvE just because this is your preferred content? Also absolutely not.
I'll also re-iterate what has already been said to @BlueRaven. You're of course free to use that ring however you like, but if damage increase on a PvE tank is your main goal, there're WAY better options there. % increases only work well on already decent damage builds, 25% damage increase on 4k dps will still be 5k dps. Swapping out a 5 pc (especially if that includes a non-s&b weapon) for an offensive one may easily increase your dps by, Idk, 100%? 200%?4 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »And some players do both PvP and PvE but the way you’re describing it assumes it’s one or the other. Basically your comments don’t encourage players to try out a mode they have no experience with. I’ve helped players get their leads since the DLC dropped their was nothing exploitive or “sucking the willingness” about it. You’re just acting creepy about a game mode you obviously don’t enjoy but that’s your personal perspective.
And I’ll continue to help PvE players get their leads which is much more than the anti-PvP crowd can say they’ve done to help. How many of you have actually stepped into IC since the patch and can say firsthand what it was like?
Agreed. The way it sounds is like anyone who PvPs is a vicious psychic vampire who will stop at nothing to ruin everyone's day simply because of a game mode. That's the epitome of fear-mongering.
It is?BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!StamPlar_1976 wrote: »Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
Oh but gankers do care! They love to harrass someone who won't fight back. I LOVE the actual PVP'ers, the ones I played with during MYM, who worked together to accomplish something and were very nice and welcoming to a PVE'er who had no idea what she was doing for a solid few hours.
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
You were red. In a pvp zone. It is there right to attack you. They did. You knew going there that the possibility of being attacked was there. I don't see the issue. There isn't any rule whatsoever that says they have to leave you alone because you don't feel like pvping. Don't want to get attacked, don't go there. How hard is that to understand?
Hmmm... 🤔
Stand by what I said. It's a pvp zone. Meaning you are flagged to be attacked by other players at any time for whatever reason. I didn't make the rules. ZOS did. I'm playing the game as ZOS dictates. As I keep repeating, if you have a problem with the way ZOS made the zone or the rules, take it up with them. I am free to kill anybody in that zone who isn't EP. Just like DC and AD are free to kill me no matter what my reason for being there is.5 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bring some friends. My guild has done nightly runs to help guild members get their lead. If your group gets attacked by another player destroy them. And if that’s not enough join your faction zerg it takes less than an hour on average to get the lead. Have any of you even been into IC this patch?5 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Bring some friends. My guild has done nightly runs to help guild members get their lead. If your group gets attacked by another player destroy them. And if that’s not enough join your faction zerg it takes less than an hour on average to get the lead. Have any of you even been into IC this patch?
There it is. The answer to all your problems. /thread2 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Bring some friends. My guild has done nightly runs to help guild members get their lead. If your group gets attacked by another player destroy them. And if that’s not enough join your faction zerg it takes less than an hour on average to get the lead. Have any of you even been into IC this patch?
That's the strange thing, a little digression here. The time it takes. Have you noticed that it takes you longer to get a majority of the PvE ones locked behind lockboxes, fishing, and dungeons than it does the IC ones? I really want to see these drop rates. 1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You were red. In a pvp zone. It is there right to attack you. They did. You knew going there that the possibility of being attacked was there. I don't see the issue. There isn't any rule whatsoever that says they have to leave you alone because you don't feel like pvping. Don't want to get attacked, don't go there. How hard is that to understand?Yep, you are 100% correct however my point about going OUT OF YOUR WAY to attack someone when they obviously are not engaging in PVP remains valid. How hard is that to understand?
People have the right and ability to limit their own understanding. I wish it wasn't used so often, but there you go.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
mavfin✭✭✭✭As I've said before, gankers will always find a way to justify focusing on easy prey that doesn't even want to fight them. Eight forbid they might have to fight someone that might hurt them.
It's just how PvP players are, most of them.11 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭Yesterday I had an exciting but cringeworthy PVP encounter with my pve stamblade.
Running dailies in Vlastrus (I haven't been to Cyrodil since grinding for the assault skills), the town was under AD control. As of a couple days ago, the town closest to DC wasn't listed.
I was using invisibility pots to sneak to the front door of the cabin, so I could go inside and get quests from the NPC.
I was inside the cabin, had just taken an invisibility pot and was moving towards the door to leave, when in comes an AD pet sorc.
The pet sorc bee lined to the quest giver, so I thought I would make my escape, didn't want any trouble. Sadly, when opening a door, the invisibility goes off momentarily, and the sorceres pet (the big tanky one) detected me and attacked (I dont think the sorc attacked me.)
Oh great, and now I cant even operate the door because I'm in combat!
So I rush to the sorc for melee attack, and I get stuck between the chairs and table. The sorc runs to the back of the cabin, is attacking me from afar and the pet (dont know its name) is in my face. I'm spam attacking the pet while jumping to try to get out of the being snagged by the table.
I eventually get free about the same time I kill the pet and dodge roll to the back of the cabin. I'm landing shots and eventually wore the sorc down, be he had me below half health at one point.
The only reason I won, I realize, is because stam toons have about 3x the stamina pool and I can keep roll dodging as much as I want. And in a cage match a sorc will be at a disadvantage.
It was cringey but satisfying.
2 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Game is forcing. If I need something from IC you must enter it. The same is about any other content.
The difference is if you need a stuff from boss in, lets say, Rift you have to kill that boss. If you need stuff from IC you have try to kill the boss and die dozens of time from people who attack you from back.
If I am standing in the farest corner, killing mobs and constantly getting backstabbed by players who just passing by I dont see them doing that not from joy of killing other player but from challenge of doing quest in a hard environment. I would never attack other player who is busy with ones own questing. But from your post I see that there are people who believe that killing player who is just standing in a corner is a challenge....
Hope you dont overwork doing that...
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
See, there you go again, the game isn't forcing anything on you and you don't "need" anything, you desire it. How can you need something that didn't even exist a month ago and you did fine without?
But yes, if you are going to enter a group PVP zone, totally unprepared as a solo player, it will not bode well for you. You don't even need to be targeted, as almost all PVP is about tossing as many AE's around as possible, so you will be collateral damage no matter what, especially if you are wearing PVE gear and basically have zero defense against other players.
If you really desire that item so much, then why are you not willing to take even the most basic steps to help yourself get it? You didn't run out to kill the boss mobs in vet dungeons for their items naked, so why would you expect that to work in IC or Cyrodiil?
Take a few simple steps and your experience will be completely different in those zones:- Get the right gear, even a green set is better than a gold PVE setup. Optionally, depending on your class, make an unkillable setup if you don't care about damaging other players. It took 6 of us a full minute to take down one solo guy yesterday, its doable.
- Don't run out solo, you are simply fodder then. Every PVP zone has a safe area, from which you can join groups. My guild has open groups running quite often when we are playing. Grouping with 20 other players who are in IC for the same reason and helping each other get the leads, is a lot more effective than trying to solo for them and chances are, you will not die so much.
- Join a PVP guild, they are not what you think. Mine is the second largest DC guild and our times together are a blast, they are really funny, super helpful and welcome everyone. According to our recruit message, we are "Casual" and my experience with them over the past couple of months agrees. They are very good casuals though, we win most of the time against overwhelming forces because we work together and use strategies. Sundays are for IC farming, my wife got her lead after about 30 minutes of us running around. I didn't, but I don't desire that lead anyways, so no biggy, I was there to just help.
Its pretty simple stuff. You don't do trials or vet dungeons in overland farming gear, so get the right gear for the job at the very least and maybe then your argument might carry some weight.6 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MorganaBlue wrote: »I can't believe some of the stuff I've read here - ImMeRsIoN breaking. LOL
I'd really love to find a form of PvE ganking of PvP players so I can offer the same experience and help them feel at home outside of Cyro and IC.
You think that doesn't exist? How about all those azzhats that loot a master chest or resource node out from under you while you are almost dead clearing the spawn? That is the worst type of PVE ganking IMHO.5 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As I've said before, gankers will always find a way to justify focusing on easy prey that doesn't even want to fight them. Eight forbid they might have to fight someone that might hurt them.
It's just how PvP players are, most of them.
So you guys are cool with being an easy prey rather than trying to get better at the game?
Gotcha 4 -
Ratinira✭✭✭✭Game is forcing. If I need something from IC you must enter it. The same is about any other content.
The difference is if you need a stuff from boss in, lets say, Rift you have to kill that boss. If you need stuff from IC you have try to kill the boss and die dozens of time from people who attack you from back.
If I am standing in the farest corner, killing mobs and constantly getting backstabbed by players who just passing by I dont see them doing that not from joy of killing other player but from challenge of doing quest in a hard environment. I would never attack other player who is busy with ones own questing. But from your post I see that there are people who believe that killing player who is just standing in a corner is a challenge.... Hope you dont overwork doing that...
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
See, there you go again, the game isn't forcing anything on you and you don't "need" anything, you desire it. How can you need something that didn't even exist a month ago and you did fine without?
But yes, if you are going to enter a group PVP zone, totally unprepared as a solo player, it will not bode well for you. You don't even need to be targeted, as almost all PVP is about tossing as many AE's around as possible, so you will be collateral damage no matter what, especially if you are wearing PVE gear and basically have zero defense against other players.
If you really desire that item so much, then why are you not willing to take even the most basic steps to help yourself get it? You didn't run out to kill the boss mobs in vet dungeons for their items naked, so why would you expect that to work in IC or Cyrodiil?
Take a few simple steps and your experience will be completely different in those zones:- Get the right gear, even a green set is better than a gold PVE setup. Optionally, depending on your class, make an unkillable setup if you don't care about damaging other players. It took 6 of us a full minute to take down one solo guy yesterday, its doable.
- Don't run out solo, you are simply fodder then. Every PVP zone has a safe area, from which you can join groups. My guild has open groups running quite often when we are playing. Grouping with 20 other players who are in IC for the same reason and helping each other get the leads, is a lot more effective than trying to solo for them and chances are, you will not die so much.
- Join a PVP guild, they are not what you think. Mine is the second largest DC guild and our times together are a blast, they are really funny, super helpful and welcome everyone. According to our recruit message, we are "Casual" and my experience with them over the past couple of months agrees. They are very good casuals though, we win most of the time against overwhelming forces because we work together and use strategies. Sundays are for IC farming, my wife got her lead after about 30 minutes of us running around. I didn't, but I don't desire that lead anyways, so no biggy, I was there to just help.
Its pretty simple stuff. You don't do trials or vet dungeons in overland farming gear, so get the right gear for the job at the very least and maybe then your argument might carry some weight.
So the steps I should make are:
- spend time to get special gear
- change skills at shrine
- learn how to use them
- leave trade/pve guild
- join pvp guild
- collect people who will help me with quests
- spend ~30 min to do questline
- leave pvp guild
- join back trade/pve guild
- change skills back at shrine
- throw gear away
Anything forgotten?2 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭Game is forcing. If I need something from IC you must enter it. The same is about any other content.
The difference is if you need a stuff from boss in, lets say, Rift you have to kill that boss. If you need stuff from IC you have try to kill the boss and die dozens of time from people who attack you from back.
If I am standing in the farest corner, killing mobs and constantly getting backstabbed by players who just passing by I dont see them doing that not from joy of killing other player but from challenge of doing quest in a hard environment. I would never attack other player who is busy with ones own questing. But from your post I see that there are people who believe that killing player who is just standing in a corner is a challenge.... Hope you dont overwork doing that...
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
See, there you go again, the game isn't forcing anything on you and you don't "need" anything, you desire it. How can you need something that didn't even exist a month ago and you did fine without?
But yes, if you are going to enter a group PVP zone, totally unprepared as a solo player, it will not bode well for you. You don't even need to be targeted, as almost all PVP is about tossing as many AE's around as possible, so you will be collateral damage no matter what, especially if you are wearing PVE gear and basically have zero defense against other players.
If you really desire that item so much, then why are you not willing to take even the most basic steps to help yourself get it? You didn't run out to kill the boss mobs in vet dungeons for their items naked, so why would you expect that to work in IC or Cyrodiil?
Take a few simple steps and your experience will be completely different in those zones:- Get the right gear, even a green set is better than a gold PVE setup. Optionally, depending on your class, make an unkillable setup if you don't care about damaging other players. It took 6 of us a full minute to take down one solo guy yesterday, its doable.
- Don't run out solo, you are simply fodder then. Every PVP zone has a safe area, from which you can join groups. My guild has open groups running quite often when we are playing. Grouping with 20 other players who are in IC for the same reason and helping each other get the leads, is a lot more effective than trying to solo for them and chances are, you will not die so much.
- Join a PVP guild, they are not what you think. Mine is the second largest DC guild and our times together are a blast, they are really funny, super helpful and welcome everyone. According to our recruit message, we are "Casual" and my experience with them over the past couple of months agrees. They are very good casuals though, we win most of the time against overwhelming forces because we work together and use strategies. Sundays are for IC farming, my wife got her lead after about 30 minutes of us running around. I didn't, but I don't desire that lead anyways, so no biggy, I was there to just help.
Its pretty simple stuff. You don't do trials or vet dungeons in overland farming gear, so get the right gear for the job at the very least and maybe then your argument might carry some weight.
So the steps I should make are:
- spend time to get special gear
- change skills at shrine
- learn how to use them
- leave trade/pve guild
- join pvp guild
- collect people who will help me with quests
- spend ~30 min to do questline
- leave pvp guild
- join back trade/pve guild
- change skills back at shrine
- throw gear away
Anything forgotten?
Not like the game doesnt allow you to be in five guilds at once 🙄
Or you could just, you know, say LFG in IC zone chat. But go ahead and keep making up excuses for why you can't get what you want while every one else is using the tools available to get the shinies they want.3 -
Imryll✭✭✭✭✭
So PvPers should complain that they put exclusive leads (and other exclusive rewards) in dungeons?
3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
So PvPers should complain that they put exclusive leads (and other exclusive rewards) in dungeons?
yes actualy. IMO those leads should have other sources. make the dungeon drops higher, make it 100% chance if dungeon is done on vet HM. add another non dungeon source - maybe even pvp source, that has a much MUCH lower drop rate, but it has it.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So PvPers should complain that they put exclusive leads (and other exclusive rewards) in dungeons?
We did, but it's 'not the same thing'.0 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭there are 3 confirmed leads in IC. 2 of them are for pvp mythic items and the third is a furnsishing item... so whats the big deal here? that out of hundreds of leads a few are located in a pvp zone and have to do with pvp items and you dont like it? IC is mainly empty nowadays. I was able to get 2 malacath rings in one day and spent maybe an hour in IC.
Get over it. ZOS not gonna change it.3 -
Ratinira✭✭✭✭StamPlar_1976 wrote: »Game is forcing. If I need something from IC you must enter it. The same is about any other content.
The difference is if you need a stuff from boss in, lets say, Rift you have to kill that boss. If you need stuff from IC you have try to kill the boss and die dozens of time from people who attack you from back.
If I am standing in the farest corner, killing mobs and constantly getting backstabbed by players who just passing by I dont see them doing that not from joy of killing other player but from challenge of doing quest in a hard environment. I would never attack other player who is busy with ones own questing. But from your post I see that there are people who believe that killing player who is just standing in a corner is a challenge.... Hope you dont overwork doing that...
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
See, there you go again, the game isn't forcing anything on you and you don't "need" anything, you desire it. How can you need something that didn't even exist a month ago and you did fine without?
But yes, if you are going to enter a group PVP zone, totally unprepared as a solo player, it will not bode well for you. You don't even need to be targeted, as almost all PVP is about tossing as many AE's around as possible, so you will be collateral damage no matter what, especially if you are wearing PVE gear and basically have zero defense against other players.
If you really desire that item so much, then why are you not willing to take even the most basic steps to help yourself get it? You didn't run out to kill the boss mobs in vet dungeons for their items naked, so why would you expect that to work in IC or Cyrodiil?
Take a few simple steps and your experience will be completely different in those zones:- Get the right gear, even a green set is better than a gold PVE setup. Optionally, depending on your class, make an unkillable setup if you don't care about damaging other players. It took 6 of us a full minute to take down one solo guy yesterday, its doable.
- Don't run out solo, you are simply fodder then. Every PVP zone has a safe area, from which you can join groups. My guild has open groups running quite often when we are playing. Grouping with 20 other players who are in IC for the same reason and helping each other get the leads, is a lot more effective than trying to solo for them and chances are, you will not die so much.
- Join a PVP guild, they are not what you think. Mine is the second largest DC guild and our times together are a blast, they are really funny, super helpful and welcome everyone. According to our recruit message, we are "Casual" and my experience with them over the past couple of months agrees. They are very good casuals though, we win most of the time against overwhelming forces because we work together and use strategies. Sundays are for IC farming, my wife got her lead after about 30 minutes of us running around. I didn't, but I don't desire that lead anyways, so no biggy, I was there to just help.
Its pretty simple stuff. You don't do trials or vet dungeons in overland farming gear, so get the right gear for the job at the very least and maybe then your argument might carry some weight.
So the steps I should make are:
- spend time to get special gear
- change skills at shrine
- learn how to use them
- leave trade/pve guild
- join pvp guild
- collect people who will help me with quests
- spend ~30 min to do questline
- leave pvp guild
- join back trade/pve guild
- change skills back at shrine
- throw gear away
Anything forgotten?
Not like the game doesnt allow you to be in five guilds at once 🙄
Or you could just, you know, say LFG in IC zone chat. But go ahead and keep making up excuses for why you can't get what you want while every one else is using the tools available to get the shinies they want.
And who said I am not in 5 guilds already?
Yes, I can say "lfg" in chat and I will get what, group that will do my main quests with me? You tried to use it exactly in that case or ..?2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
So PvPers should complain that they put exclusive leads (and other exclusive rewards) in dungeons?
I have stated many times in this thread, I don’t like exclusivities on either side of the aisle. Put monster sets in pvp rewards, I would not care and I believe many pvp players would appreciate it.4 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭
So PvPers should complain that they put exclusive leads (and other exclusive rewards) in dungeons?
I have stated many times in this thread, I don’t like exclusivities on either side of the aisle. Put monster sets in pvp rewards, I would not care and I believe many pvp players would appreciate it.
its selfsih of you to ask that zos change up a big part of their loot system to cater to a very small percent of people who seem to have a fear of pvp. you know if you die in pvp you can come back and go at it again...
get out of your comfort zone and if you dont want to then dont demand that I get into yours4 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So the steps I should make are:
- spend time to get special gear
- change skills at shrine
- learn how to use them
- leave trade/pve guild
- join pvp guild
- collect people who will help me with quests
- spend ~30 min to do questline
- leave pvp guild
- join back trade/pve guild
- change skills back at shrine
- throw gear away
Anything forgotten?- It takes about 15 minutes on TTC to find the gear, it is usually really cheap as well.
- I change skills quite often just for different PVE setups, so don't you do that already also?
- You don't need to know many skills, and if you don't already know your class/weapon skills, well then you aren't even good at PVE.
- Joining a PVP guild is optional, as I made perfectly clear, my guild runs open groups, as do many others. Try finding out when some good guilds from you alliance may be there and ask if you can hang with them to get your lead, you will probably be surprised how accommodating they will be. Joining a guild and quitting just to achieve a goal, would be a pretty low thing to do. Did you do that to achieve your PVE goals as well? Join a trial guild, gear up and quit them?
- Throw the gear away if you want, or like happened to me, you may have just made some new friends and found a new part of the game that was a lot more fun than you previously thought... since you took the time to do it correctly and didn't just dose yourself in gasoline and jump in the fire.
3 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh well, just dont do it........ I see no problems people that enjoy the content to get an incentive. You know how many pvpers avoided vdsa or certain dlcs?1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Game is forcing. If I need something from IC you must enter it. The same is about any other content.
The difference is if you need a stuff from boss in, lets say, Rift you have to kill that boss. If you need stuff from IC you have try to kill the boss and die dozens of time from people who attack you from back.
If I am standing in the farest corner, killing mobs and constantly getting backstabbed by players who just passing by I dont see them doing that not from joy of killing other player but from challenge of doing quest in a hard environment. I would never attack other player who is busy with ones own questing. But from your post I see that there are people who believe that killing player who is just standing in a corner is a challenge.... Hope you dont overwork doing that...
Dont remember the game now, but there was one I played where if you want to be engaged in pvp you have to rase spesial "flag". You did that - other players can attack you. Otherwise they cannot. For me that is the perfect sustem. Want challenge of constant threat - press the button and enjoy. But you can mess only with ones you enjoy it. Others are immune to your aggression.
See, there you go again, the game isn't forcing anything on you and you don't "need" anything, you desire it. How can you need something that didn't even exist a month ago and you did fine without?
But yes, if you are going to enter a group PVP zone, totally unprepared as a solo player, it will not bode well for you. You don't even need to be targeted, as almost all PVP is about tossing as many AE's around as possible, so you will be collateral damage no matter what, especially if you are wearing PVE gear and basically have zero defense against other players.
If you really desire that item so much, then why are you not willing to take even the most basic steps to help yourself get it? You didn't run out to kill the boss mobs in vet dungeons for their items naked, so why would you expect that to work in IC or Cyrodiil?
Take a few simple steps and your experience will be completely different in those zones:- Get the right gear, even a green set is better than a gold PVE setup. Optionally, depending on your class, make an unkillable setup if you don't care about damaging other players. It took 6 of us a full minute to take down one solo guy yesterday, its doable.
- Don't run out solo, you are simply fodder then. Every PVP zone has a safe area, from which you can join groups. My guild has open groups running quite often when we are playing. Grouping with 20 other players who are in IC for the same reason and helping each other get the leads, is a lot more effective than trying to solo for them and chances are, you will not die so much.
- Join a PVP guild, they are not what you think. Mine is the second largest DC guild and our times together are a blast, they are really funny, super helpful and welcome everyone. According to our recruit message, we are "Casual" and my experience with them over the past couple of months agrees. They are very good casuals though, we win most of the time against overwhelming forces because we work together and use strategies. Sundays are for IC farming, my wife got her lead after about 30 minutes of us running around. I didn't, but I don't desire that lead anyways, so no biggy, I was there to just help.
Its pretty simple stuff. You don't do trials or vet dungeons in overland farming gear, so get the right gear for the job at the very least and maybe then your argument might carry some weight.
So the steps I should make are:
- spend time to get special gear
- change skills at shrine
- learn how to use them
- leave trade/pve guild
- join pvp guild
- collect people who will help me with quests
- spend ~30 min to do questline
- leave pvp guild
- join back trade/pve guild
- change skills back at shrine
- throw gear away
Anything forgotten?
I originally wanted to say something else but that'd probably get edited for baiting, so let's try another approach.
Let's have a closer look at those gankers (also are we still on gankers or just ANY PvPers trying to PvP in a PvP zone at this point?)
They didn't just log into the game on day 1 with 50k one-hit damage, you know. They
- leveled up a character (possibly with ideal race/class setup, a lot of people actually level dedicated chars for special roles such as this, so it's possible they actually had to level from scratch there, or at least pay for a race change on already existing character)
- theorycrafted or looked up a build (since ganking is a primarily solo activity, this gets a lot more important than when running with a crowd)
- set up their skills and gear into at least somewhat viable setup to farm PvE for the required gear, a lot of which tends to be BoP
- had to join a PvE guild in order to run dungeons to farm that special gear
- had to leave a PvP/trade guild in order to join that PvE guild for farming gear
- spent the time to get special gear (which may have taken quite a while given this gear is likely BoP and may even include (v)MA stuff)
- had to leave that PvE guild
- had to join back that PvP/trade guild
- set up their skills a special way, which likely eradicates their usefulness in any other role, meaning any time they wanna do something different they have to change skills at the shrine
- crafted fancy potions (which is far from cheap btw)
- died quite a few times trying to learn to do it properly (given ganking is a solo activity for the most part, there's no hope for a crowd support to fall back to there)
- spent their time waiting for that perfect occasion (I have seen oh so many a gank fail when tried at the wrong moment)
- etc (I do not actually have a gank character so there may be more to it; someone more experienced please correct me if I got anything wrong)
...and all of this just so they could go and have a shot at quickly killing someone like you. Or me. Or anyone else for that matter, just because this is their preferred activity in a PvP zone.
Now tell me...what is it that makes YOUR time so much more valueable and important than THEIR time that all their efforts should be nullified just so you don't have to put any in?
*shakes head* I never thought we'd come to this...me, of all people, defending ganking, a playstyle I have always hated with passion. But here we go.Edited by Magdalina on June 10, 2020 5:19PM4 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Now tell me...what is it that makes YOUR time so much more valueable and important than THEIR time that all their efforts should be nullified just so you don't have to put any in?
The same mindset that gives out trophies for "participation". In my day, you had to try out for the little league team and many didn't make the cut and get on a team at all. Those that did make the cut, didn't get any trophies unless they actually won.
Everyone wants something for little to no work nowadays. Heck, my last company couldn't even hire decent programmers unless we gave them free stuff like lunches, gym memberships, unlimited time off, etc... What ever happened to having to actually earn something?
1 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You are quite right. If you die in pvp you can come back and die againyou know if you die in pvp you can come back and go at it again...
get out of your comfort zone and if you dont want to then dont demand that I get into yours That is the whole reason why pvp players so much want pve players in pvp zones. For pve players though it simply means a waste of time, and a waste of time is never appropriate.
Getting out of comfort zone works in real life when you are getting a very good paycheck as well. In a game meant to be fun it is stupid.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.11
This discussion has been closed.