ItsJustHashtag wrote: »You can get good enough sets that drop overland or craftable to get started in pvp. Getting end game pvp gear shouldn’t be handed to someone just starting out just as end game pve gear isn’t.
ImmortalCX wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »You can get good enough sets that drop overland or craftable to get started in pvp. Getting end game pvp gear shouldn’t be handed to someone just starting out just as end game pve gear isn’t.
Im not talking about endgame pvp gear. Just something to let them survive and have a good time.
The difference is that new players can walk into a dungeon with found gear and be successful. The same is not true of PVP.
The barrier to PVP is actually higher than crafting/buying a meta set. If you plan to continue doing PVE, you actually need a second character with proper CP allocation and skills.
CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »There is a lot more variety in PvP builds. Far, far more.
Remember. PvP is very different to PvE. Nothing is static. No enemy is the same.
You cannot expect one build to work on everything. Because it won't. And if you don't have the skill, you won't get anywhere regardless.
That is why I find PvP far more enjoyable. You can't just read a guide and know it all.
ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
ImmortalCX wrote: »The barrier for entry to PVP is getting geared. A good meta pvp set will cost 500K gold or more. Finding this information means going to alcast and looking for a build.
The observation is that you can run PVE dungeons and have success with pretty much any set you find. (The DLC and veteran dungeons may require a little more thought, but the sets are not expensive.) But the same is not true of PVP. If you attempt pvp as a new(poor) player with found gear, they will wipe the floor with you.
Maybe this exists, but there should be a bright flashing neon sign that says "Equip this gear and you will have a good time", with prices a novice can afford, without having to collect pvp currency. Of course they wouldn't be meta, but they would keep people alive.
ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
In PvP the only steps of this kind to cater to lower tiers of players is how absurdly strong groups of players are now adays. If a newer player doesn't want to run into better players they must avoid them. Player versus Player generally implies that you are to be matched against another opponent to see who is better. When you lose, no matter to how different the skill gap was, there is always something to learn. What hinders people is when they blame everyone other than themselves. No matter the situation there was always one action/choice you could have made that would have let you survive longer or out burst the enemy.
ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
In terms of this statement,
In PvE the content is at whatever level you play it. For instance new players can find themselves in normal dungeons and do fine without gear. However this wont cut it for vet dungeons or normal trials. Then the next stage is vet dlc dungeons and vet trials. Then the next stage is vet+ trials.
In PvP the only steps of this kind to cater to lower tiers of players is how absurdly strong groups of players are now adays. If a newer player doesn't want to run into better players they must avoid them. Player versus Player generally implies that you are to be matched against another opponent to see who is better. When you lose, no matter to how different the skill gap was, there is always something to learn. What hinders people is when they blame everyone other than themselves. No matter the situation there was always one action/choice you could have made that would have let you survive longer or out burst the enemy.
@ImmortalCX PvP has little to no barriers to entry especially with the recent trait changes with impen running divines is easily viable. As for sets, unless you want to really do some theory crafted 1% build you can be effective just using crafted sets like New Moon Acolyte, Stuhn's, Seducer, Critical Riposte, Spell Parasite, Clever alch.
I'm a 6 year player that has almost exclusively played pvp and I can assure you there is no reason you can't be near Bis within an hour or two of crafting.
.
VaranisArano wrote: »Honestly?
Grab yourself some Impen gear and go PVP.
You're gonna die a lot no matter what gear you wear because you just don't know what you are doing when you are new. Impen just helps you not die the second someone looks at you funny. The "meta" gear won't help you have a good time. The only thing that will really help is a good attitude about dying repeatedly while you learn.
My first "PVP set" was impen Plague Doctor. On a healer. It sucked in terms of the meta, but it let me survive long enough to figure out what was killing me.
ImmortalCX wrote: »
New players should have an option where they can equip some heavy armor with stam regen and decent damage stats, so they can survive and learn. They will get 2x 5pc bonuses. It should be almost free (or free).
gatekeeper13 wrote: »In PvP the only steps of this kind to cater to lower tiers of players is how absurdly strong groups of players are now adays. If a newer player doesn't want to run into better players they must avoid them. Player versus Player generally implies that you are to be matched against another opponent to see who is better. When you lose, no matter to how different the skill gap was, there is always something to learn. What hinders people is when they blame everyone other than themselves. No matter the situation there was always one action/choice you could have made that would have let you survive longer or out burst the enemy.
Totally agree with what your wrote. But there are circumstances where I don't know what I can learn or do. E.g. I have a glass cannon bow nightblade (and only bow), full divines and faced a tanky stamina DK today. I was as buffed as I good be, had around 5.2K weapon dmg and 7.000 penetration and attacked him first with Toxic Barrage. Result? He didnt even drop below 80% of his health. Then I went on to use everything I got till I run out of stamina and got killed. He just wouldnt go below 80-70% health. And not only that but he also recovered his lost health immediately.
I know that bow builds are not strong enough on themselves or ideal for 1v1 but Jesus Christ.... How can I surpass so much dmg mitigation? Some builds are insanely tanky, imho. So tanky it makes no sense...
ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
ImmortalCX wrote: »The barrier for entry to PVP is getting geared. A good meta pvp set will cost 500K gold or more. Finding this information means going to alcast and looking for a build.
The observation is that you can run PVE dungeons and have success with pretty much any set you find. (The DLC and veteran dungeons may require a little more thought, but the sets are not expensive.) But the same is not true of PVP. If you attempt pvp as a new(poor) player with found gear, they will wipe the floor with you.
Maybe this exists, but there should be a bright flashing neon sign that says "Equip this gear and you will have a good time", with prices a novice can afford, without having to collect pvp currency. Of course they wouldn't be meta, but they would keep people alive.
So when looking to progress try to figure out what aspect is hindering you. Build? meta? abilities? skill? At a certain point if it feels like you are not improving, one of these factors is limiting you. Maybe there is a set of gear that would give you a slightly better 1% advantage that lets your skill continue progressing. Maybe running a terrible race is limiting how your stats compare against someone elses, so they are always 1% better than you.gatekeeper13 wrote: »In PvP the only steps of this kind to cater to lower tiers of players is how absurdly strong groups of players are now adays. If a newer player doesn't want to run into better players they must avoid them. Player versus Player generally implies that you are to be matched against another opponent to see who is better. When you lose, no matter to how different the skill gap was, there is always something to learn. What hinders people is when they blame everyone other than themselves. No matter the situation there was always one action/choice you could have made that would have let you survive longer or out burst the enemy.
Totally agree with what your wrote. But there are circumstances where I don't know what I can learn or do. E.g. I have a glass cannon bow nightblade (and only bow), full divines and faced a tanky stamina DK today. I was as buffed as I good be, had around 5.2K weapon dmg and 7.000 penetration and attacked him first with Toxic Barrage. Result? He didnt even drop below 80% of his health. Then I went on to use everything I got till I run out of stamina and got killed. He just wouldnt go below 80-70% health. And not only that but he also recovered his lost health immediately.
I know that bow builds are not strong enough on themselves or ideal for 1v1 but Jesus Christ.... How can I surpass so much dmg mitigation? Some builds are insanely tanky, imho. So tanky it makes no sense...
ImmortalCX wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
In terms of this statement,
In PvE the content is at whatever level you play it. For instance new players can find themselves in normal dungeons and do fine without gear. However this wont cut it for vet dungeons or normal trials. Then the next stage is vet dlc dungeons and vet trials. Then the next stage is vet+ trials.
In PvP the only steps of this kind to cater to lower tiers of players is how absurdly strong groups of players are now adays. If a newer player doesn't want to run into better players they must avoid them. Player versus Player generally implies that you are to be matched against another opponent to see who is better. When you lose, no matter to how different the skill gap was, there is always something to learn. What hinders people is when they blame everyone other than themselves. No matter the situation there was always one action/choice you could have made that would have let you survive longer or out burst the enemy.
At least half of the difference between new and experienced pvper is gear.
New players should have an option where they can equip some heavy armor with stam regen and decent damage stats, so they can survive and learn. They will get 2x 5pc bonuses. It should be almost free (or free).