Olauron wrote: »

Different furnishings are like different sets. What you are saying is "Why are you upset that you should do master writs to get BIS sets? There are plenty sets in the dungeons. Those sets are worse, but you should deal with it."

We all like different furnishings so there's nothing BiS. ZOS does what it wants based on what it believes to be best - we can adapt to their changes in direction or miss out on content that the silent majority of players will happily just get on with. They won't not do content out of principle. I think I'll just conclude with this similar thread containing people less polite than I am.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531141/yeah-no-zos-i-asked-you-what-you-think-is-so-much-fun-about-pressing-one-button-for-hours/p1

StevenIV wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

I would say that Housing is one of the core aspects of the game, the Homestead was released the same way as Orsinium. In addition to the activity locks like pvp or trial we also have a pay to win aspect with crown-only furnishings, so it is understandable that when in addition to huge monetary investments we are expected to engage in some other modes that we don't like, we are not amused.

That is true. But core or no, housing has a far smaller community than PvP and end-game PvE. The more overlap with those the better, as it'll mean more furnishings . When adding content ZOS will always try to provide for as many people as possible.

That makes no sense. Locking furnishings behind PvP does the opposite.

There are people who like PvP, there are people who like housing; there are people who like both. Locking furniture behind PvP excludes people who like housing and only appeals to people who like PvP and housing both. Similarly, adding a furnishing to PvP adds nothing to people who enjoy PvP but aren't interested in housing. So rather than creating more overlap and more furnishings, ZOS just alienate whole parts of their demographic.

Because let's be honest, why would a player who likes both PvP and housing insist that a furnishing come from PvP? When the vast majority of furnishings don't and it still doesn't stop them from enjoying those (and indeed those allow many other players to enjoy them too)? They don't PvP for the furnishing, they PvP because they enjoy it.

And no, any argument towards 'prestige' or 'earning' furnishings as a proud reward (e.g. BG achievement furniture) that would try to justify gating these behind PvP is immediately invalid due to the totally random arbitrary RNG-ness of the drops. There is nothing prestigious in getting getting a low-drop rate statue lead from the first daily BG box your character ever did. Just like I've gotten 4 wasted copies of the Malacath's Ring Mythic fragment in Bethnikh while farming a Drum furnishing lead.

Leads (or furnishings) should have just been tradeable. Simple as that. Because there is no point in creating this wasteful situation that involves the tedious grinding of hated game modes due to luck, with no skill involved whatsoever (and yes that includes the other complaint threads you mentioned like mas-Fishing for Mythics).

StevenIV wrote: »

Also best to not forget that the vast majority of furnishings will remain accessible through easy PvE. The notion that having a few new furnishings locked behind PvP is somehow outrageous just boggles me.

You can replace set X with set Y and lose some percent of DPS, that does not really matter for most activities (especially for skillful player), but even when it matters, both sets are about DPS and comparable.

You can't replace statue of Alessia (for example) with the statue of Guar (for example). They are not comparable at all. Sure, if we could get medium statue of Alessia from one source and bigger statue of Alessia from another source, then locking that bigger statue behind activity that is not wanted will be not such a big deal. It would be possible to work with lesser furnishings the same way it is possible to play with less DPS.

Olauron wrote: »

You can't replace statue of Alessia (for example) with the statue of Guar (for example). They are not comparable at all.

Yes, but now we're really just getting off track and getting into the business model used by ZOS - which is about how to make MMO content last as long as possible.

We of course see what you mention with superior and inferior versions of items with crown store exclusives, which is the same premise of some being prepared to do certain things for furnishings where others might refuse. You can buy a Dibella statue the size of a house or get a tiny model. They of course won't do that for every item as that would come at the expense of development time for different furnishings.

The antiquity system was clearly designed to have some grind to make the content last longer, and you achieve that even more by spreading it out across the entire game to ensure you aren't getting a bunch of the new content by total accident. I don't think it's surprising in an MMO and so I don't think ZOS cares about complaints about it. They obviously consider it economically necessary for the longevity of the housing community, and they're still releasing new furnishings for crowns, gold, writs and achievements. Now they're adding some exclusively behind PvP and PvE grind.

Not a big deal. Obviously it'd be just grand to get quickly get every item from the sources we prefer for minimum effort on our parts, but they do things for a reason. Might be greed due to a desire to do the bare minimum, might be necessity from people not buying enough crown furnishings to cover the effort needed to make them. Complaining on the forum about MMO grind won't turn any heads.

Yes, but with the exception of a few dlc related antiquities and furnishings we'll get with the Q4 dlc, we won't get the sort of huge furnishing drop like we just received until next year's chapter.

Personally, despite the 'grind' I have already received most of the furnishings I was really looking forward after a week, and I am already thinking forward to what I'd like to see added to my existing houses. Just as I am not totally representative of housing, not everyone has a spring clean every few months and starts over, and ZOS certainly won't move heaven and earth to help either group do that when there are far more pressing issues facing the future of the game than a handful of antiquities being put in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds. We'll have to wait our turn and suffer the grind like everyone else.

You strictly PvE guys can just pick a low pop PvP campaign (or go no cp, no one wants that) and get what you want in Cyrodiil and probably not even see another player. You get so comfy in your no death play - so what if your character gets killed anyway. What’s the big deal?

PvP guys have to grind for their monster sets in vet dungeons too, just like PvE players.

Olauron wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

You get so comfy in your no death play - so what if your character gets killed anyway. What’s the big deal?

PvP guys have to grind for their monster sets in vet dungeons too, just like PvE players.

What is the big deal? Death is not a problem in PVE, because death blocks nothing in PVE. You simply revive at the same place and keep doing what you were doing (or even skip this place in ghost form). Death in PVE will make you spend 10 seconds and this is it.
In PVP death means preventing doing what you were doing. You need to waste many minutes to ride to the place you want to get and you have no guarantee that this new spending of the time will be not wasted by another death.
As you can see, in PVE death doesn't block you progress. In PVP death blocks progress, and it may block progress indefinitely. This is inappropriate from the point of time management.

That’s why you do a low pop campaign. I cleared all of the delves in Cyrodiil solo with a PvE build and got the skyshards too. That took me a day or so. What was stopping me from succeeding? Nothing - I died a few times because the map was not favorable to my faction. I have a fully upgraded horse, just a minor setback.

EDIT:

I even managed to get the four skyshards behind the other factions gates. There is no more difficult achievement than that in PvP. I am proud of that, but my point is not just boasting. Getting one antiquity is surely much, much easier. If you really want it, it can be done.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

That’s why you do a low pop campaign. I cleared all of the delves in Cyrodiil solo with a PvE build and got the skyshards too. That took me a day or so. What was stopping me from succeeding? Nothing - I died a few times because the map was not favorable to my faction. I have a fully upgraded horse, just a minor setback.

So your choice was to put yourself in a dependant position, to look for low pop campaign, to depend on what other players do and what they allow you to do. I don't agree with this. If some activity puts you into dependant position, ignore this activity.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If you really want it, it can be done.

"If you really want it, you will do anything and suffer anything?" Sorry, I consider it wrong mentality. This is a game. There is nothing in a game that you can really want, there is nothing in a game that can make you suffer doing content you don't like. When developer creates such situation, the right choice is to explain that it is a provocation and don't follow this provocation.