Vampire players really should get access to the unique bat-swarm gap closer NPCs get
-
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The evidence in the game, in the story mission tell us where these vampires came from.
Still doesn't stop the fact Lamae's bloodline has the powers of several other bloodlines. Mistform and control over bats have been powers displayed and used by her bloodline since it was first introduced into ESO. There is nothing really stopping the players from having these abilities from a lore point of view, and it is really disappointing the combat team thought that Secret World/Hollywood style blood magic was "Vampiric". It doesn't fit into the lore of TES vampires at all and makes them more into feral mindless beasts than sophisticated undead that are feared because of their ability to reason and siphon life from the living.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK3 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Getting a vampire gap closer would be super cool tbh I was hoping we was going to get it when vampire re work was announced.0 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭These skills belong to the Antogonist vampires, another clan. Or do you want to be traitors to your clan?
Do you have proof of that? Because as far as I'm seeing, there's nothing in any of the new bits of lore that says that the 'abilities' are 'specific' to any 'clan'. You're gravely mistaken there. And note: Just because an NPC uses it and the PC doesn't isn't any indication. That just means you can't use said abilities.
The evidence in the game, in the story mission tell us where these vampires came from.
Okay, but Im still waiting for an explanation as to how a clan that has a lot to do with bats (lamae's clan) in lore can't have a bat-swarm dash.
Where these vampires came from is irrelevant. Vampire powers are vampire powers. And as seen with the Volkihar vampire lord, turning into a swarm of bats isn't exactly a unique clan thing.Edited by Noxavian on June 1, 2020 7:58PM5 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭These skills belong to the Antogonist vampires, another clan. Or do you want to be traitors to your clan?
Do you have proof of that? Because as far as I'm seeing, there's nothing in any of the new bits of lore that says that the 'abilities' are 'specific' to any 'clan'. You're gravely mistaken there. And note: Just because an NPC uses it and the PC doesn't isn't any indication. That just means you can't use said abilities.
The evidence in the game, in the story mission tell us where these vampires came from.
That isn't evidence and I agree with others--not only is it irrelevant what line a vampire comes from, you have not explained one fundamental principle that all of these lines, including Lamae's line, has...
They all have used bats at some point or another, not to mention similar powers and abilities. If you think their abilities are 'unique', you've really must have skipped much of the game's vampires, let alone Skyrim.3 -
Merca✭These skills belong to the Antogonist vampires, another clan. Or do you want to be traitors to your clan?
Do you have proof of that? Because as far as I'm seeing, there's nothing in any of the new bits of lore that says that the 'abilities' are 'specific' to any 'clan'. You're gravely mistaken there. And note: Just because an NPC uses it and the PC doesn't isn't any indication. That just means you can't use said abilities.
The evidence in the game, in the story mission tell us where these vampires came from.
That isn't evidence and I agree with others--not only is it irrelevant what line a vampire comes from, you have not explained one fundamental principle that all of these lines, including Lamae's line, has...
They all have used bats at some point or another, not to mention similar powers and abilities. If you think their abilities are 'unique', you've really must have skipped much of the game's vampires, let alone Skyrim.
The Lamae clan can call for a swarm of bats to help themselves, which they do, in one of the morphs of ultimatic ability.
And what you want is to turn into a swarm of bats and move a certain distance. It 's another ability.
Calling for and turning into something are different things.
Answering other questions. We can 't take vampire experience from the third and fourth era. Because many clans are extinct, others have appeared. The same thing happened to anthogonist vampires. They 're extinct, but they 're trying to recover. As if now they started growing dinosaurs using their genome. If you look in other regions, there vampires do not have the abilities that new vampires have.Edited by Merca on June 2, 2020 3:57AM0 -
Josira✭✭✭✭Look
They have changed so much of the lore
that "bloodlines and clans' mean nothing
Valenwood vampires where the ones meant to turn into mist..or illiac bay ones? cant remember. but it was a spesific clan
Volhkihar vampires where meant to be able to pull people through the ice and underwater
but you dont see that because of..well limitations
Either way
We should of gotten a gapcloser.
"BlooD FReNZy TicKS aLL thE BoXes of WhaT iT mEanS tO bE a VaMpiRe"4 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭I think vampires could get different skins for certain abilities. That way classes won't lose their abilities, and vampire players can have their own flair.0 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭These skills belong to the Antogonist vampires, another clan. Or do you want to be traitors to your clan?
Do you have proof of that? Because as far as I'm seeing, there's nothing in any of the new bits of lore that says that the 'abilities' are 'specific' to any 'clan'. You're gravely mistaken there. And note: Just because an NPC uses it and the PC doesn't isn't any indication. That just means you can't use said abilities.
The evidence in the game, in the story mission tell us where these vampires came from.
That isn't evidence and I agree with others--not only is it irrelevant what line a vampire comes from, you have not explained one fundamental principle that all of these lines, including Lamae's line, has...
They all have used bats at some point or another, not to mention similar powers and abilities. If you think their abilities are 'unique', you've really must have skipped much of the game's vampires, let alone Skyrim.
The Lamae clan can call for a swarm of bats to help themselves, which they do, in one of the morphs of ultimatic ability.
And what you want is to turn into a swarm of bats and move a certain distance. It 's another ability.
Calling for and turning into something are different things.
Answering other questions. We can 't take vampire experience from the third and fourth era. Because many clans are extinct, others have appeared. The same thing happened to anthogonist vampires. They 're extinct, but they 're trying to recover. As if now they started growing dinosaurs using their genome. If you look in other regions, there vampires do not have the abilities that new vampires have.
Really? You think they're going to pay that close attention to lore? The Lamae clan has an affinity with bats. Enough said. Whose to say summoning and turning into *bats* don't have some correlation? Especially for vampires?
0 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Look
They have changed so much of the lore
that "bloodlines and clans' mean nothing
Valenwood vampires where the ones meant to turn into mist..or illiac bay ones? cant remember. but it was a spesific clan
Volhkihar vampires where meant to be able to pull people through the ice and underwater
but you dont see that because of..well limitations
Either way
We should of gotten a gapcloser.
This guy gets it.
@Merca doesn't understand that small, trivial bloodline details get changed all the time. Now if Lamae's line had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with bats, you might have a case. But the fact of the matter is abilities are shared among clans.
Care to explain why these new vampires can *also* summon swarms of bats as well as turn into them?
Yet apparently you say there is no relation.2 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bradyfjord wrote: »I think vampires could get different skins for certain abilities. That way classes won't lose their abilities, and vampire players can have their own flair.
That would be very cool and I'd take this.2 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is totally a place for, throw Blood Frenzy in Trash Bin put the Bat Gap closer in its place and we are all set.Edited by Thevampirenight on June 2, 2020 5:49AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.3 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »There is totally a place for, throw Blood Frenzy in Trash Bin put the Bat Gap closer in its place and we are all set.
Can very much agree. Blood Frenzy has to be the absolute worst skill concept I've ever seen ever.
It is genuinely TRASH.
I hate the design of it because it's so simple and lacks any and all creativity. Ooooh a toggle that drains hp for extra dmg! Literally disgusting.
Worst part is that they THINK this skill is what it means to be a vampire.
4 -
nesakinter✭✭✭✭No vampire does not need a gap closer. It will be OP in PvP. The moment you add an universal gap closer, magicka builds will have pretty much the same mobility as stamina in PvP while also having a range advantage. Right now, only classes with non-weapon gap closers are NB and Templar, not counting DK Chains for obvious reason. NB makes sense due to the fact that they are supposed to have very high mobility.
As for Templar, there are tons of nerf requests for Toppling Charge ever since it was fixed.
Right now, only class with a teleport gap closer is NB. You guys are legit asking for something very similar being added universally at the cost of class identity. As if vampire already did not steal from NB class identity.1 -
Ankaridan✭✭✭But... but...
Vampire used to have a gap closer - the previous incarnation of Bat Swarm (clouding swarm morph) let you teleport across massive distances. No one used it because they all wanted the devouring swarm heal.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. Vampires literally had a gap closer before Greymoor and NO ONE used it.4 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Look
They have changed so much of the lore
that "bloodlines and clans' mean nothing
Valenwood vampires where the ones meant to turn into mist..or illiac bay ones? cant remember. but it was a spesific clan
Volhkihar vampires where meant to be able to pull people through the ice and underwater
but you dont see that because of..well limitations
Either way
We should of gotten a gapcloser.
This guy gets it.
@Merca doesn't understand that small, trivial bloodline details get changed all the time. Now if Lamae's line had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with bats, you might have a case. But the fact of the matter is abilities are shared among clans.
Care to explain why these new vampires can *also* summon swarms of bats as well as turn into them?
Yet apparently you say there is no relation.
Exactly. There's also the fact that there are bosses pre-Greymoor that also turn into a flurry of bats and zip around the battlefield. I guess those are all Gray Host now too, amirite?
1 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »There is totally a place for, throw Blood Frenzy in Trash Bin put the Bat Gap closer in its place and we are all set.
Can very much agree. Blood Frenzy has to be the absolute worst skill concept I've ever seen ever.
It is genuinely TRASH.
I hate the design of it because it's so simple and lacks any and all creativity. Ooooh a toggle that drains hp for extra dmg! Literally disgusting.
Worst part is that they THINK this skill is what it means to be a vampire.
This ability is what I call a suicide toggle, it might not be that way all the time. However running it makes you vulnerable to death if your not careful and its high risk makes it so unvampiric. It would be great for I'm taking you with me builds where you proc something when you die and it kills the enemy that killed you.
This ability is supposed to represent blood magic. One thing they could change while its active it converts all magical or stamina abilties depending on morph to use your health pool and by doing this doing more damage. However the ability shouldn't be a toggle but like a buff that runs for like 15 to 20 seconds in between its time activated you can use it as a bat gap closer.
The extra damage it grants to abilties should be ten to twenty percent more damage but not as much as it currently gives. So the ability should be used in times when you want to use an ability but not cast like magicka or stamina but switch over to health. So it can be viable in those types of situations.
So if Zenimax wanted to they could redeem and rework Blood Frenzy to be an actual blood magic ability that grants actual access to blood magic that allows you to use your own health to power spells instead of the thing it is now.
Blood Magic would be very cool, but the way its done right now isn't what I call vampiric.Edited by Thevampirenight on June 2, 2020 8:48AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.1 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »There is totally a place for, throw Blood Frenzy in Trash Bin put the Bat Gap closer in its place and we are all set.
Can very much agree. Blood Frenzy has to be the absolute worst skill concept I've ever seen ever.
It is genuinely TRASH.
I hate the design of it because it's so simple and lacks any and all creativity. Ooooh a toggle that drains hp for extra dmg! Literally disgusting.
Worst part is that they THINK this skill is what it means to be a vampire.
This ability is what I call a suicide toggle, it might not be that way all the time. However running it makes you vulnerable to death if your not careful and its high risk makes it so unvampiric. It would be great for I'm taking you with me builds where you proc something when you die and it kills the enemy that killed you.
This ability is supposed to represent blood magic. One thing they could change while its active it converts all magical or stamina abilties depending on morph to use your health pool and by doing this doing more damage. However the ability shouldn't be a toggle but like a buff that runs for like 15 to 20 seconds in between its time activated you can use it as a bat gap closer.
The extra damage it grants to abilties should be ten to twenty percent more damage but not as much as it currently gives. So the ability should be used in times when you want to use an ability but not cast like magicka or stamina but switch over to health. So it can be viable in those types of situations.
So if Zenimax wanted to they could redeem and rework Blood Frenzy to be an actual blood magic ability that grants actual access to blood magic that allows you to use your own health to power spells instead of the thing it is now.
Blood Magic would be very cool, but the way its done right now isn't what I call vampiric.
@Thevampirenight 600 weapon/spell damage translates to around 10% more damage, which you can see in build editors and ingame. Also, bloodmagic in eso is all about sacrificing your own health not the other way around. Check the NB skill lines for examples. Their burst heal costs health.0 -
kinguardian✭✭✭✭I am glad you wrote this topic because I thought it was something that was now possible. I really want to te the vampire but the looks keep putting me off. Now I saw all these cool effects happening and I thought fluff it I go for it. But now I read this topic and I think it is a disappointment.
Is being a vampire much better and a lot more fun then before not?1 -
Spectral_Force✭✭✭But... but...
Vampire used to have a gap closer - the previous incarnation of Bat Swarm (clouding swarm morph) let you teleport across massive distances. No one used it because they all wanted the devouring swarm heal.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. Vampires literally had a gap closer before Greymoor and NO ONE used it.
We've actually talked about it extensively on the PTS forum. The problem with no one using Clouding Swarm (even though some people actually were using it) was because Devouring Swarm was just a better choice in most situations. But if this was to be moved away from the Ultimate slot and onto one of the Skill slots, it would actually see some use. Hell, add this to Perfect Scion and people might actually start using that morph.I've unearthed the Legendary Antiquity of Mêlée Island and all I got was this stupid T-shirt!1 -
Josira✭✭✭✭But... but...
Vampire used to have a gap closer - the previous incarnation of Bat Swarm (clouding swarm morph) let you teleport across massive distances. No one used it because they all wanted the devouring swarm heal.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. Vampires literally had a gap closer before Greymoor and NO ONE used it.
I did. I think I mentioned it in a few threads
I used the hell out of it. In battlegrounds it was amazing for putting pressure on people,especially nightblades and people running away. I used it on my mag Dk a lot.
"BlooD FReNZy TicKS aLL thE BoXes of WhaT iT mEanS tO bE a VaMpiRe"0 -
Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭So many great suggestions. [snip]
[Edited to remove Bashing]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 2, 2020 1:26PMCrown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Either that or the very interesting Bat AOE skill the NPCs get. Imagine having access to an AOE that you give a target and it'll chase after that target and deal damage ((And maybe even snare)) anything that gets inside its effect. I can imagine it being useful against stationary targets and forcing the more maneuverable foes to stay on their feet lest they get damaged by the swarm. Would make it a very unique skill tailored to the vampire play style and give players like myself that missed bat swarm something cool to use.
Would also give us another damage dealing option on top of Eviscerate so you're not spamming the same thing over and over again.
Honestly I'd take this too! Ideally both could be a part of the same skill, just different morphs?
Getting one or the other would be fine though.
Sound great rather than the lame gargoyle lookin garbage geap with bad skills we got0 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But... but...
Vampire used to have a gap closer - the previous incarnation of Bat Swarm (clouding swarm morph) let you teleport across massive distances. No one used it because they all wanted the devouring swarm heal.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. Vampires literally had a gap closer before Greymoor and NO ONE used it.
This is because it was tied to a 7 second ultimate.4 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nesakinter wrote: »No vampire does not need a gap closer. It will be OP in PvP. The moment you add an universal gap closer, magicka builds will have pretty much the same mobility as stamina in PvP while also having a range advantage. Right now, only classes with non-weapon gap closers are NB and Templar, not counting DK Chains for obvious reason. NB makes sense due to the fact that they are supposed to have very high mobility.
As for Templar, there are tons of nerf requests for Toppling Charge ever since it was fixed.
Right now, only class with a teleport gap closer is NB. You guys are legit asking for something very similar being added universally at the cost of class identity. As if vampire already did not steal from NB class identity.
I think you're wrong here.
Flat out.
Vampire has a melee spammable. I'd agree with you if they were ranged base. Then yeah, they wouldn't need a gap closer. But the FACT of the matter is that they are magicka melee dmg focused. Without a gap closer on some classes, like necromancer, playing as a vampire feels like ***. Best part is when you blood scion ult, people can just run away from you because you have 0 mobility.
Also fun fact: GAP CLOSERS ARE NOT A CLASS IDENTITY. And if you think such, you are kidding yourself. Giving the vampire 1 gap closer that requires a charge up and that isn't targetable would be worse than the NB and templar gap closer because it can be dodged. But at the very least they would have a gap closer.
As long as they don't make it instant, there is literally 0 downsides to giving vamps a gap closer.
Also if you think them having one would be busted, ok, go into PvP right now and use vampire skills + nightblade's gap closer. I think you'll find that it isn't as busted as you think. And the gap closer vamps would be getting would be worse than the NB one.5 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »There is totally a place for, throw Blood Frenzy in Trash Bin put the Bat Gap closer in its place and we are all set.
Can very much agree. Blood Frenzy has to be the absolute worst skill concept I've ever seen ever.
It is genuinely TRASH.
I hate the design of it because it's so simple and lacks any and all creativity. Ooooh a toggle that drains hp for extra dmg! Literally disgusting.
Worst part is that they THINK this skill is what it means to be a vampire.
This ability is what I call a suicide toggle, it might not be that way all the time. However running it makes you vulnerable to death if your not careful and its high risk makes it so unvampiric. It would be great for I'm taking you with me builds where you proc something when you die and it kills the enemy that killed you.
This ability is supposed to represent blood magic. One thing they could change while its active it converts all magical or stamina abilties depending on morph to use your health pool and by doing this doing more damage. However the ability shouldn't be a toggle but like a buff that runs for like 15 to 20 seconds in between its time activated you can use it as a bat gap closer.
The extra damage it grants to abilties should be ten to twenty percent more damage but not as much as it currently gives. So the ability should be used in times when you want to use an ability but not cast like magicka or stamina but switch over to health. So it can be viable in those types of situations.
So if Zenimax wanted to they could redeem and rework Blood Frenzy to be an actual blood magic ability that grants actual access to blood magic that allows you to use your own health to power spells instead of the thing it is now.
Blood magic would be very cool, but the way its done right now isn't what I call vampiric.
@Thevampirenight 600 weapon/spell damage translates to around 10% more damage, which you can see in build editors and ingame. Also, bloodmagic in eso is all about sacrificing your own health not the other way around. Check the NB skill lines for examples. Their burst heal costs health.
You didn't mention that the vampire NPCs in game use plenty of blood magic that doesn't sacrifice their HP. But I imagine you forgot that. So, of course, naturally that means blood frenzy is ok.5 -
Klad✭✭✭✭Vampire characters are already catered to more than any other demographic
They deserve nothing0 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vampire characters are already catered to more than any other demographic
They deserve nothing
Oh really? Have any proof on that statement? The recent reworks would disagree with you, seeing as how werewolf got an improvement and vamp is over all quite meh.
It took them 6 years to touch on a boring skill line. But yes, go on, explain how vampire characters are catered to.4 -
propertyOfUndefined✭✭✭✭✭"Cool factor" aside, I just wish the skill tree had access to a gap closer. I was hoping for something like the teleport we had with the pre-greymoor ultimate. This would make melee magicka builds more viable outside of DKs and NBs. It would also make the skill line as a whole more enjoyable and feel more "complete", imho.5 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭propertyOfUndefined wrote: »"Cool factor" aside, I just wish the skill tree had access to a gap closer. I was hoping for something like the teleport we had with the pre-greymoor ultimate. This would make melee magicka builds more viable outside of DKs and NBs. It would also make the skill line as a whole more enjoyable and feel more "complete", imho.
Can agree! The skill line would feel complete if it had a gap closer. It's so bad in PvP to transform into a scion only to be kited for 20 seconds because certain classes literally have no gap closers3