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Unpopular Opinion: Killable Guards
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robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭
So basically you want to allow people to kill guards first and then go on a stealing and murdering spree?The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.
Sorry, might be fun in a single player game but I would abosolutely hate it to see rampaging and murdering groups of players run around in all the game's towns town all day and have to step over piles of dead guards and other NPC's everywhere I go.
I would definitely quit the game if this were the case.
*
No.
People generally don't run around killing NPCs because it's "fun". They do it because they want loot from the NPCs..
Ah, so all we have to do to keep ESO analogue to the "Fires of Heaven" guild from getting rid of all the other people's guild traders is to make it so NPCs don't drop loot.
Now we only have to worry about the griefers; thank Azura there none of THOSE around. Totally extinct; nonexistant like bigfoot.
That was sarcasm, btw.
And that quote you took was from how the game is currently.
If you wanna make a thread about how killing NPCs in ESO should be removed entierly, feel free to do so.
For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!
Again, OP made this about immersion and his immersion doesn't trump anothers. Killable guards but that banker is immortal? Totally immersion breaking. If guards are made killable so should other NPC'S. Can't have it both ways.
Don't we already have it "both ways" though, as some NPCs are killable and others aren't? Clearly there are limitations to what people are asking for in terms of immersion.
Nobody says that his immersion is trumping others but that's why we're discussing things, right? If you're against it, so be it, but the thread isn not about having all NPCs being killable.
If we had killable guards and someone suggested "let's have all NPCs being killable" I'd be against it. But again, that's not what's being brought up.
So it's ok to discuss it, so long as we only go along with your opinion on the matter. That's not a discussion.2 -
Rovaeden✭✭✭Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.
This would be fine if you couldn't accidentally steal items, or be a Necromancer and use abilities.
Guards should be killable. Sure, they don't need to be an easy encounter, but sure enough you should be able to put up a fight and fight them.
One problem:
Adding Necromancer for example and forcing them to get a bounty for using skills is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you
Great Examples of Guards:
Look at games like World of Warcraft. Guards dismount, root, slow, and stun you. You can kill them, but if you fight 10+ you usually start to go down.
In Comparison:We don't need to make it so 10+ to kill you, but we can at least make Guards have more utility and fit into the city? For example, why don't guards give you directions to things, why don't guards answer questions, why aren't the intractable unless they want to kill you?
In Summary:
Make guards killable, tune them to be like a mini boss fight, something you really should run away from, but can fight if you really want to.
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Our thieving system would be cool, but it feels more punishing than anything else with unkillable god-mode guards.
Completely agree!
0 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »
So basically you want to allow people to kill guards first and then go on a stealing and murdering spree?The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.
Sorry, might be fun in a single player game but I would abosolutely hate it to see rampaging and murdering groups of players run around in all the game's towns town all day and have to step over piles of dead guards and other NPC's everywhere I go.
I would definitely quit the game if this were the case.
*
No.
People generally don't run around killing NPCs because it's "fun". They do it because they want loot from the NPCs..
Ah, so all we have to do to keep ESO analogue to the "Fires of Heaven" guild from getting rid of all the other people's guild traders is to make it so NPCs don't drop loot.
Now we only have to worry about the griefers; thank Azura there none of THOSE around. Totally extinct; nonexistant like bigfoot.
That was sarcasm, btw.
And that quote you took was from how the game is currently.
If you wanna make a thread about how killing NPCs in ESO should be removed entierly, feel free to do so.
For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!
Again, OP made this about immersion and his immersion doesn't trump anothers. Killable guards but that banker is immortal? Totally immersion breaking. If guards are made killable so should other NPC'S. Can't have it both ways.
Don't we already have it "both ways" though, as some NPCs are killable and others aren't? Clearly there are limitations to what people are asking for in terms of immersion.
Nobody says that his immersion is trumping others but that's why we're discussing things, right? If you're against it, so be it, but the thread isn not about having all NPCs being killable.
If we had killable guards and someone suggested "let's have all NPCs being killable" I'd be against it. But again, that's not what's being brought up.
So it's ok to discuss it, so long as we only go along with your opinion on the matter. That's not a discussion.
Hahahahah, what?
All I'm saying is that having killable guards (to offer more immersion, or for what ever reason) doesn't automatically equal to having every NPCs being a killable target. Which is what you're trying to equate and I'm not buying your arguments for it.
But what ever, I'll go along with what you said
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.0 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Yeah, that's why I said "potential" risk haha. The guards are the only real 'risk' to the Justice System. Being able to kill them removes all the risk without affecting the reward, and the argument of 'immersion' is still a flimsy one because again, there are a lot of things in this game that breaks immersion for a lot of other people that will never be removed simply because of breaking immersion. And the main point is guards being unkillable isn't a matter of immersion either way, it's a mechanic designed to prevent people from cheesing the Justice System.
What if you could kill guards but that guard respawned literally the second they died? You'd have one hell of a bounty on you and immediately get jumped again because of it, but hey, at least you can kill them and your 'immersion' isn't affected, right?Character List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!0 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »
So basically you want to allow people to kill guards first and then go on a stealing and murdering spree?The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.
Sorry, might be fun in a single player game but I would abosolutely hate it to see rampaging and murdering groups of players run around in all the game's towns town all day and have to step over piles of dead guards and other NPC's everywhere I go.
I would definitely quit the game if this were the case.
*
No.
People generally don't run around killing NPCs because it's "fun". They do it because they want loot from the NPCs..
Ah, so all we have to do to keep ESO analogue to the "Fires of Heaven" guild from getting rid of all the other people's guild traders is to make it so NPCs don't drop loot.
Now we only have to worry about the griefers; thank Azura there none of THOSE around. Totally extinct; nonexistant like bigfoot.
That was sarcasm, btw.
And that quote you took was from how the game is currently.
If you wanna make a thread about how killing NPCs in ESO should be removed entierly, feel free to do so.
For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!
Again, OP made this about immersion and his immersion doesn't trump anothers. Killable guards but that banker is immortal? Totally immersion breaking. If guards are made killable so should other NPC'S. Can't have it both ways.
Don't we already have it "both ways" though, as some NPCs are killable and others aren't? Clearly there are limitations to what people are asking for in terms of immersion.
Nobody says that his immersion is trumping others but that's why we're discussing things, right? If you're against it, so be it, but the thread isn not about having all NPCs being killable.
If we had killable guards and someone suggested "let's have all NPCs being killable" I'd be against it. But again, that's not what's being brought up.
So it's ok to discuss it, so long as we only go along with your opinion on the matter. That's not a discussion.
Hahahahah, what?
All I'm saying is that having killable guards (to offer more immersion, or for what ever reason) doesn't automatically equal to having every NPCs being a killable target. Which is what you're trying to equate and I'm not buying your arguments for it.
But what ever, I'll go along with what you said
It's really very simple:
OP makes a post that claims that immortal guards are immersion breaking.
The rest of us wonder, if that's the case, why are the other NPCs that can't be killed ok? Is it because it might be your guild's merchant? A quest giver? The stable owner? If one subset of NPCs being immortal is ok, then all of the ones that are immortal are ok too.
So no, the guards are fine as they are. As we can see, just from your replies alone, all of the other immortal NPCs are fine as they are, so the guards must be too.2 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!
Ah, so you admit to not having read the thread. Let me give you a rundown of the people who are talking about killing all NPCs, since you're so adamant nobody is talking about that:Kinda brings us back to "You're in a warzone" The sad thing is, factions don't matter on ESO outside of Cyrodiil (thanks One Tamriel) Would be cool to see this game be slightly less casual and allow us to have wars outside of cities.
World of Warcraft did exactly what you said, clearing it was hard, keeping it was easy.... Until 50+ Alliance teleported in and chased us Horde back to the spawn. These fights are what make a game remembered.TropicsDelight wrote: »You see though, this is where developers can actually start to create a world that makes more sense.
Joe Shmoe the beat guard who walks around town yelling at teens and arresting people who steals apples is probably not a beast of a fight.
The Queens guard on the other hand? Yeah, in this instance you can be pretty certain you are getting your head lobbed off right quick. They could still be killable but this would be a fight like having 6 world boss level guards attacking you all at once. And your reward for doing it anyhow? Massive bounty, KOS in all cities in that faction, the inability to complete quests, dailies, ect... in that faction.
Despite all the "OMG noes! people would be killing guards all the time!" posts it simply does not actually happen that way in every game that has killable guards. It is a novelty that wears off real quick and then you are left with a world that functions as normal and is slightly more realistic.TropicsDelight wrote: »But.. this is Tamriel, the world is at war, there are NPC raiding parties and groups all over the place, some cities are in ruins and overrun with monsters or NPC groups who destroyed the city and slaughtered the citizens or chased them out.
The only problem with the above? All of that content is static. We never see a city overrun or under attack, we only see peaceful cities that never get attacked or we see overrun cities that were taken over before we got there.
Part of the power of a MMORPG is the fact that player driven content like a raid can actually be both entertaining and bring extra life and vibrance to the world, adding some dynamic content to an otherwise very static game world. This should not be feared by MMORPG designers, this should be embraced.
In Everquest the Velious expansion actually went so far as to create 3 factions and you could make friends with one of the factions and they would function as towns for you while the other two became raiding areas. It was all dynamic and you could change your factions slowly over time by killing the other factions to repair rep in one area or another. It was very cool.
Should I keep going?1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. Just don't steal and don't use illegal abilities in town.
I say that as someone who often steals coins from the banker without meaning to.
This, exactly.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything that grants them a bounty. No one forces anyone to steal. No one is forcing a necromancer to use a skill that will grant a bounty.
Of course, there is the other option that Zos originally considered. Players being able to kill someone who has a bounty and able to claim the reward. Players are killable so it seems like a fair trade off.Edited by idk on May 29, 2020 11:05PM0 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the guards need to be buffed. When i get caught stealing i ALWAYS manage to run away unless i stand there and wait to die.
We who get caught, just suck being thieves and need to get better
>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<1 -
Rovaeden✭✭✭
We who get caught, just suck being thieves and need to get better
Right.... Cuz we have SO much control over RNG deciding that we fail at a 90% pick pocket chance 5 times in a row.....
Master Thief,
max rank ledgermain, full passives.
makes no difference.
The RNG systems is dumb.
Guards NEED to be killable.
Period0 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!
Ah, so you admit to not having read the thread. Let me give you a rundown of the people who are talking about killing all NPCs, since you're so adamant nobody is talking about that:Kinda brings us back to "You're in a warzone" The sad thing is, factions don't matter on ESO outside of Cyrodiil (thanks One Tamriel) Would be cool to see this game be slightly less casual and allow us to have wars outside of cities.
World of Warcraft did exactly what you said, clearing it was hard, keeping it was easy.... Until 50+ Alliance teleported in and chased us Horde back to the spawn. These fights are what make a game remembered.TropicsDelight wrote: »You see though, this is where developers can actually start to create a world that makes more sense.
Joe Shmoe the beat guard who walks around town yelling at teens and arresting people who steals apples is probably not a beast of a fight.
The Queens guard on the other hand? Yeah, in this instance you can be pretty certain you are getting your head lobbed off right quick. They could still be killable but this would be a fight like having 6 world boss level guards attacking you all at once. And your reward for doing it anyhow? Massive bounty, KOS in all cities in that faction, the inability to complete quests, dailies, ect... in that faction.
Despite all the "OMG noes! people would be killing guards all the time!" posts it simply does not actually happen that way in every game that has killable guards. It is a novelty that wears off real quick and then you are left with a world that functions as normal and is slightly more realistic.TropicsDelight wrote: »But.. this is Tamriel, the world is at war, there are NPC raiding parties and groups all over the place, some cities are in ruins and overrun with monsters or NPC groups who destroyed the city and slaughtered the citizens or chased them out.
The only problem with the above? All of that content is static. We never see a city overrun or under attack, we only see peaceful cities that never get attacked or we see overrun cities that were taken over before we got there.
Part of the power of a MMORPG is the fact that player driven content like a raid can actually be both entertaining and bring extra life and vibrance to the world, adding some dynamic content to an otherwise very static game world. This should not be feared by MMORPG designers, this should be embraced.
In Everquest the Velious expansion actually went so far as to create 3 factions and you could make friends with one of the factions and they would function as towns for you while the other two became raiding areas. It was all dynamic and you could change your factions slowly over time by killing the other factions to repair rep in one area or another. It was very cool.
Should I keep going?
I was gonna give a serious reply, but I'm too tired for it. You're taking things out of context and I suggest you go back to where I wrote "I'm sorry if it's been brought up already, but why are people making the comparison to other NPC's when the OP specifically talking about guards?" and then you follow the conversation to the point where you jumped.
"Nobody [...]" was refering to the OP and people who were staying on topic.
The topic is about killable guards, so let's try to keep it that way.The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.0 -
Rovaeden✭✭✭No. Just don't steal and don't use illegal abilities in town.
I say that as someone who often steals coins from the banker without meaning to.
This, exactly.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything that grants them a bounty. No one forces anyone to steal. No one is forcing a necromancer to use a skill that will grant a bounty.
Of course, there is the other option that Zos originally considered. Players being able to kill someone who has a bounty and able to claim the reward. Players are killable so it seems like a fair trade off.
[snip]
If this argument were in any way valid then by the same token no one is forcing anyone to pvp, but lots of people cry when some other class beats them. "Nerf this! Nerf that!" They cry.
No one is forcing anyone to engage in pve combat, exploration, crafting, indeed, no one is forcing anyone to even play the game.
Given that ALL of these things, including theft (duuhhhhh, gee, look.. Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content.... must be here by accident... better pretend I didn't see it so I don't GET FORCED to enjoy it) is part of the entire package of gameplay.
[Edited to remove Rude Comment]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 30, 2020 1:14PM0 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »
So basically you want to allow people to kill guards first and then go on a stealing and murdering spree?The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.
Sorry, might be fun in a single player game but I would abosolutely hate it to see rampaging and murdering groups of players run around in all the game's towns town all day and have to step over piles of dead guards and other NPC's everywhere I go.
I would definitely quit the game if this were the case.
*
No.
People generally don't run around killing NPCs because it's "fun". They do it because they want loot from the NPCs..
Ah, so all we have to do to keep ESO analogue to the "Fires of Heaven" guild from getting rid of all the other people's guild traders is to make it so NPCs don't drop loot.
Now we only have to worry about the griefers; thank Azura there none of THOSE around. Totally extinct; nonexistant like bigfoot.
That was sarcasm, btw.
And that quote you took was from how the game is currently.
If you wanna make a thread about how killing NPCs in ESO should be removed entierly, feel free to do so.
For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!
Again, OP made this about immersion and his immersion doesn't trump anothers. Killable guards but that banker is immortal? Totally immersion breaking. If guards are made killable so should other NPC'S. Can't have it both ways.
Don't we already have it "both ways" though, as some NPCs are killable and others aren't? Clearly there are limitations to what people are asking for in terms of immersion.
Nobody says that his immersion is trumping others but that's why we're discussing things, right? If you're against it, so be it, but the thread isn not about having all NPCs being killable.
If we had killable guards and someone suggested "let's have all NPCs being killable" I'd be against it. But again, that's not what's being brought up.
So it's ok to discuss it, so long as we only go along with your opinion on the matter. That's not a discussion.
Hahahahah, what?
All I'm saying is that having killable guards (to offer more immersion, or for what ever reason) doesn't automatically equal to having every NPCs being a killable target. Which is what you're trying to equate and I'm not buying your arguments for it.
But what ever, I'll go along with what you said
It's really very simple:
OP makes a post that claims that immortal guards are immersion breaking.
The rest of us wonder, if that's the case, why are the other NPCs that can't be killed ok? Is it because it might be your guild's merchant? A quest giver? The stable owner? If one subset of NPCs being immortal is ok, then all of the ones that are immortal are ok too.
Yeah, so it was like I asked you earlier. It's about the reason behind the change (immortal NPCs = immersion breaking) not the change itself "[...] Anyway, so your objection is about the reasoning for the proposed change and not the change in itself?".
Which I asked you about 4 days ago
robertthebard wrote: »So no, the guards are fine as they are. As we can see, just from your replies alone, all of the other immortal NPCs are fine as they are, so the guards must be too.
I think it's ok, but it would be even Better if the guards were killable. Like I said in the same post 4 days ago "I'm with you on the point that not every NPC should be a killable target. ESO can never be as immersive like other TES games, and I don't care much about immersion in ESO either. I tried in the early days and it just didn't work. I even tried playing in first person view.
But I do think that having killable guards would make thieving more fun and engaging. Across the board I'd like more depth to the existing systems. I'm not much of a fan for the horizontal progression when I can't find any immersion in the world."The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.1 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
No, they don't. What needs to be fixed is the RNG. You want the guards to be killable so there's no repercussions to your actions. You engage in the Justice System, you take the cruddy RNG with the rewards, but don't expect to be able to kill the guards because of an action you decided to do failed, even knowing the RNG isn't going to be on your side.
We who get caught, just suck being thieves and need to get better
Right.... Cuz we have SO much control over RNG deciding that we fail at a 90% pick pocket chance 5 times in a row.....
Master Thief,
max rank ledgermain, full passives.
makes no difference.
The RNG systems is dumb.
Guards NEED to be killable.
PeriodCharacter List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »
So basically you want to allow people to kill guards first and then go on a stealing and murdering spree?The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.
Sorry, might be fun in a single player game but I would abosolutely hate it to see rampaging and murdering groups of players run around in all the game's towns town all day and have to step over piles of dead guards and other NPC's everywhere I go.
I would definitely quit the game if this were the case.
*
No.
People generally don't run around killing NPCs because it's "fun". They do it because they want loot from the NPCs..
Ah, so all we have to do to keep ESO analogue to the "Fires of Heaven" guild from getting rid of all the other people's guild traders is to make it so NPCs don't drop loot.
Now we only have to worry about the griefers; thank Azura there none of THOSE around. Totally extinct; nonexistant like bigfoot.
That was sarcasm, btw.
And that quote you took was from how the game is currently.
If you wanna make a thread about how killing NPCs in ESO should be removed entierly, feel free to do so.
For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!
Again, OP made this about immersion and his immersion doesn't trump anothers. Killable guards but that banker is immortal? Totally immersion breaking. If guards are made killable so should other NPC'S. Can't have it both ways.
Don't we already have it "both ways" though, as some NPCs are killable and others aren't? Clearly there are limitations to what people are asking for in terms of immersion.
Nobody says that his immersion is trumping others but that's why we're discussing things, right? If you're against it, so be it, but the thread isn not about having all NPCs being killable.
If we had killable guards and someone suggested "let's have all NPCs being killable" I'd be against it. But again, that's not what's being brought up.
So it's ok to discuss it, so long as we only go along with your opinion on the matter. That's not a discussion.
Hahahahah, what?
All I'm saying is that having killable guards (to offer more immersion, or for what ever reason) doesn't automatically equal to having every NPCs being a killable target. Which is what you're trying to equate and I'm not buying your arguments for it.
But what ever, I'll go along with what you said
It's really very simple:
OP makes a post that claims that immortal guards are immersion breaking.
The rest of us wonder, if that's the case, why are the other NPCs that can't be killed ok? Is it because it might be your guild's merchant? A quest giver? The stable owner? If one subset of NPCs being immortal is ok, then all of the ones that are immortal are ok too.
Yeah, so it was like I asked you earlier. It's about the reason behind the change (immortal NPCs = immersion breaking) not the change itself "[...] Anyway, so your objection is about the reasoning for the proposed change and not the change in itself?".
Which I asked you about 4 days agorobertthebard wrote: »So no, the guards are fine as they are. As we can see, just from your replies alone, all of the other immortal NPCs are fine as they are, so the guards must be too.
I think it's ok, but it would be even Better if the guards were killable. Like I said in the same post 4 days ago "I'm with you on the point that not every NPC should be a killable target. ESO can never be as immersive like other TES games, and I don't care much about immersion in ESO either. I tried in the early days and it just didn't work. I even tried playing in first person view.
But I do think that having killable guards would make thieving more fun and engaging. Across the board I'd like more depth to the existing systems. I'm not much of a fan for the horizontal progression when I can't find any immersion in the world."
You are not with me, that's my point. I think that if we're going to remove immortality from the guards, we need to remove it from all NPCs, especially when the topic stems from "immersion". That will cause immeasurable amounts of griefing, and I even listed an example: Some other guild gets a guild's preferred merchant, so they just spawn camp it, not allowing the guild that owns it to make money off of it, and if you think "well that would never happen", you're fooling yourself. People will absolutely go on killing sprees, killing any and everyone, simply because they can. There's a reason these NPCs are immortal, after all, to keep this from happening.1 -
godagarah5000✭✭✭well if we make guards killable can we also have the option to make them into vampires/werewolves by turning their captain as well? me likes this idea0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭why would you need killable guards when you can run from them so easily? After all, they can't be that tough now, as occasionally I go into a city literally littered with 100+ NPC bodies, that these fine guards failed to protect.
IMHO
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Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭barney2525 wrote: »why would you need killable guards when you can run from them so easily? After all, they can't be that tough now, as occasionally I go into a city literally littered with 100+ NPC bodies, that these fine guards failed to protect.
IMHO
This comes up when would be thieves gets caught/killed while trying to steal indoors, losing a bunch of high value loot and now wants killable guards because immersion.
Im sure "some" folks in favor most likely want to kill all guards in town and then drain the city of valuables with zero repercussions, though most will never admit that.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway2 -
LoneDrkWolf✭✭✭I believe this is a good idea. They actually took out some good things when the got rid of skyrim. Like the ability to lose heat/bounty by killing ALL witnesses. This is where killing a guard or 2 would be useful. Also, yes we do get caught thieving. When you only have 2 guards, it would be nice to have z fighting chance NOT to lose gold or valuables. Not saying make it easy, also don't want to clear a city. Just a good fighting chance. But since I know they base npcs off of devs and programmers I can see why they want to protect. I won't go into anymore detail since some thing will tell me "you've been warned", you can't talk bad about them, they can't handle criticism. Just my 2 cents.0
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Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭I feel like the 'killable guards' idea would really only work if it was a pvp server. And there would still be forum qq for it, only much less so than if we implemented this on the current megaservers.Edited by Bradyfjord on June 3, 2020 1:37AM0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bradyfjord wrote: »I feel like this idea would really only work if it was a pvp server. And there would still be forum qq for it, only much less so than if we implemented this on the current megaservers.
Not really, because the existence of a PvP server implies the existence of a non-PvP server, which means y'all could have your killable guards and town wars and whatever else people get out of open world PvP, and we could have our PvE-only Cyrodiil and IC. Sounds like a perfect solution for everyone.0 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭Bradyfjord wrote: »I feel like this idea would really only work if it was a pvp server. And there would still be forum qq for it, only much less so than if we implemented this on the current megaservers.
Not really, because the existence of a PvP server implies the existence of a non-PvP server, which means y'all could have your killable guards and town wars and whatever else people get out of open world PvP, and we could have our PvE-only Cyrodiil and IC. Sounds like a perfect solution for everyone.
Sure, why not?0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bradyfjord wrote: »Bradyfjord wrote: »I feel like this idea would really only work if it was a pvp server. And there would still be forum qq for it, only much less so than if we implemented this on the current megaservers.
Not really, because the existence of a PvP server implies the existence of a non-PvP server, which means y'all could have your killable guards and town wars and whatever else people get out of open world PvP, and we could have our PvE-only Cyrodiil and IC. Sounds like a perfect solution for everyone.
Sure, why not?
Well.....
If you had an All PvP server and an All PvE server, you would be splitting the total population.
IMHO - the All PvP server would have a much lower population than the All PvE server. Additionally, All PvP server questing would be minimal. Who wants to go into a dialog scene, and when you come out of it, you are Dead? Who wants to fight a dragon when the characters near you decide to kill you instead? Same with Dolmens and any WBs ?
Eventually, the game would be put back into the situation we currently have - with specific areas designated for PvP, simply because it would not make sense to try and run 2 servers, when 1 would do.
The problem with the 'All PvP' crowd is that they seem to think you can just flip a switch and make the game all PvP - and everything would work just fine. They don't seem to want to acknowledge that there is much more to a game than that. If your game is going to be All PvP, it has to be completely designed from the ground up, from that perspective. And it has to be advertised as such.
ESO was Never designed to be All PvP. Therefore, you can't simply make a server that is All PvP and expect everything to be just fine.
IMHO
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robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »Bradyfjord wrote: »Bradyfjord wrote: »I feel like this idea would really only work if it was a pvp server. And there would still be forum qq for it, only much less so than if we implemented this on the current megaservers.
Not really, because the existence of a PvP server implies the existence of a non-PvP server, which means y'all could have your killable guards and town wars and whatever else people get out of open world PvP, and we could have our PvE-only Cyrodiil and IC. Sounds like a perfect solution for everyone.
Sure, why not?
Well.....
If you had an All PvP server and an All PvE server, you would be splitting the total population.
IMHO - the All PvP server would have a much lower population than the All PvE server. Additionally, All PvP server questing would be minimal. Who wants to go into a dialog scene, and when you come out of it, you are Dead? Who wants to fight a dragon when the characters near you decide to kill you instead? Same with Dolmens and any WBs ?
Eventually, the game would be put back into the situation we currently have - with specific areas designated for PvP, simply because it would not make sense to try and run 2 servers, when 1 would do.
The problem with the 'All PvP' crowd is that they seem to think you can just flip a switch and make the game all PvP - and everything would work just fine. They don't seem to want to acknowledge that there is much more to a game than that. If your game is going to be All PvP, it has to be completely designed from the ground up, from that perspective. And it has to be advertised as such.
ESO was Never designed to be All PvP. Therefore, you can't simply make a server that is All PvP and expect everything to be just fine.
IMHO
This disregards how often pure PvP servers are shut down due to low populations. Swtor went from 3 to "well, you can enter a PvP instance on every server" because the PvP servers would be screaming about needing a merge, they'd get one, and within a week, you guessed it, they needed another one. Aion went from PvPvE, as it was advertised, to a "Fast Track Server" where there's no PvP. You could opt out of that, but you'd find a vast empty world, or lots of bots, or a lot of maxed level enemy toons, farming lowbies because they were bored, once the level caps were removed from rifts. It would seem as if it's really popular to comment on how popular PvP is in MMOs, but really hard to financially support it on it's own servers.0 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭What, there aren't enough pure PvP games out there for you to pick from; you have to turn this one into an all-PvP game too?
This is why I give side-eye to so many PvPers. It's not enough to kill people who actually want to fight you and who are prepared to fight you; gotta get the thrill of taking out scrubs who are geared to run Caldwell's Silver too.0 -
AmoralOne✭✭✭✭I have a 3k gold bounty on my head in Clockwork city from stealing the stuff, and doing the things for Spring Loaded Infusion food. Did i die to guards? yes. Should I have? yes.
Will I return to Clockwork and pay that bounty? Not a chance LOL I may have 5M gold but that 3k is not going to the clockwork government to fund their argonian slave trade.PC NA - EP's Greatest Support0
