There is nothing wrong with unkillable guards.

If you have an active bounty and a guard stops you then you either pay it and lose any stolen items or run away.

There are achievements for both of these actions too.

Edit: oh yes, sry, there is of course the 3rd option. Just let the guard kill you ...

robertthebard wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

I'm sorry if it's been brought up already, but why are people making the comparison to other NPC's when the OP specifically talking about guards?
It doesn't mean ALL NPC's should be kill-able. Quest givers, merchants, guild traders, essential NPCs etc shouldn't be killable because it stops the progression for players.
But guards? The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.
Killing guards for fun would be just as much of a thing as killing other NPCs are right now; it happens, but it's not some major issue that's causing every area to be completely desolate and void of NPCs.
On top of that, if ZOS made sure that guards have no loot, then it would further disincentivize people from killing them.
I don't understand this fear that having killable guards would mean completely empty cities. Someone care to explain?

Because if it's immersion breaking for guards, it stands to reason it's immersion breaking for all NPCs in towns. I've seen the aftermath of scenarios like this, been the cause of it on one occasion. Imagine trying to fast travel to a zone in swtor, only to find that everyone there is dead. We had a PVP griefer beating up lowbies on Tatooine once, and when we went after him, he ran to a base to hide, so we cleared the entire base. Anyone trying to turn in any quests there, or trying to sell stuff was just SoL, because we wanted to kill the griefer. We could have camped it all day if we'd wanted too. Clearing it was the hard part, keeping it cleared would have been easy.

I'm with you on the point that not every NPC should be a killable target. ESO can never be as immersive like other TES games, and I don't care much about immersion in ESO either. I tried in the early days and it just didn't work. I even tried playing in first person view.
But I do think that having killable guards would make thieving more fun and engaging. Across the board I'd like more depth to the existing systems. I'm not much of a fan for the horizontal progression when I can't find any immersion in the world.
Anyway, so your objection is about the reasoning for the proposed change and not the change in itself?

robertthebard wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

I'm sorry if it's been brought up already, but why are people making the comparison to other NPC's when the OP specifically talking about guards?
It doesn't mean ALL NPC's should be kill-able. Quest givers, merchants, guild traders, essential NPCs etc shouldn't be killable because it stops the progression for players.
But guards? The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.
Killing guards for fun would be just as much of a thing as killing other NPCs are right now; it happens, but it's not some major issue that's causing every area to be completely desolate and void of NPCs.
On top of that, if ZOS made sure that guards have no loot, then it would further disincentivize people from killing them.
I don't understand this fear that having killable guards would mean completely empty cities. Someone care to explain?

Because if it's immersion breaking for guards, it stands to reason it's immersion breaking for all NPCs in towns. I've seen the aftermath of scenarios like this, been the cause of it on one occasion. Imagine trying to fast travel to a zone in swtor, only to find that everyone there is dead. We had a PVP griefer beating up lowbies on Tatooine once, and when we went after him, he ran to a base to hide, so we cleared the entire base. Anyone trying to turn in any quests there, or trying to sell stuff was just SoL, because we wanted to kill the griefer. We could have camped it all day if we'd wanted too. Clearing it was the hard part, keeping it cleared would have been easy.

Kinda brings us back to "You're in a warzone" The sad thing is, factions don't matter on ESO outside of Cyrodiil (thanks One Tamriel) Would be cool to see this game be slightly less casual and allow us to have wars outside of cities.

World of Warcraft did exactly what you said, clearing it was hard, keeping it was easy.... Until 50+ Alliance teleported in and chased us Horde back to the spawn. These fights are what make a game remembered.

To prevent "guard farming" - maybe killing a guard should have even more serious consequences...

Rittings wrote: »

To prevent "guard farming" - maybe killing a guard should have even more serious consequences...

Has been suggested within the thread, I do agree with this.

I'd be okay if guards were killable, but only if you blade of woe them from behind. I think that would be a compromise I could live with.

I mean, I thought that we were the Heroes/Villains pf the game. Let them be killed. Slap us with a 100,000 fine KOS by all guards in Tamriel for a few days
... It'll be fun! Also, have them randomly spawn on roads of Tamriel and attack.

santhoranb16_ESO wrote: »

Guards should not be invincible, but hard to kill. Not a players goes and farm up killing guards - But if like say 12 players would decide to challenge up, the guard should be dead - without reward with quick respawn of the guard, but invincible shouldnt be needed.
That way it would feel way more "normal" and i can tell that after some days, player would ignore guards like before. Yes in the first days after the change you'd see same guard's killing spree's but that would settle down quick if there's no reward and no benefit of it, while still requiring a bigger group to kill.

Again, if they do, it shouldn't just be the guards, it should be every NPC in town. If invulnerability is immersion breaking, it's immersion breaking. Did another guild get your trading post you wanted? Just camp the NPC and kill it every time it spawns, that'll learn 'em, that is, of course, until someone does it to your guild, right? If it's going to be "but it should only apply to guards", then no.

Kalik_Gold wrote: »

I remember leveling on guards a few times in Everquest. Using an enchanter to have a guard fight another guard - or - killing them myself in the high elven city. (Kunark era).

It was a sign of oh he is a bad ass as the newbies were running to guards for defense, yet I’m killing them inside the city.

And screwing your faction all to hell. where you had to stay way from some cities or parts there of.

Casterial wrote: »

Kinda brings us back to "You're in a warzone" The sad thing is, factions don't matter on ESO outside of Cyrodiil (thanks One Tamriel) Would be cool to see this game be slightly less casual and allow us to have wars outside of cities.

World of Warcraft did exactly what you said, clearing it was hard, keeping it was easy.... Until 50+ Alliance teleported in and chased us Horde back to the spawn. These fights are what make a game remembered.

So basically, you want ESO to become Universal PvP, and to hell with the people who don't like PvP at all?

I guess, on the plus side, the servers wouldn't be so laggy anymore, once they're down to about 93 people.

mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »

I mean, I thought that we were the Heroes/Villains pf the game. Let them be killed. Slap us with a 100,000 fine KOS by all guards in Tamriel for a few days
... It'll be fun! Also, have them randomly spawn on roads of Tamriel and attack.

Actually this could be a super cool way to create some open world PvP, bounty hunting.

If a player attacks and kills a guard they get a huge bounty and can be killed by other players who might want to try to collect the bounty.

The player with a bounty can be attacked by any player or group of players and only once they are actively attacked by a person can they attempt to fight back. If a person kills that person with the bounty they get the bounty, if that person is killed by a group the people who killed them split the bounty based on a dmg done/healing done to the attackers formula.

The bounty reward is strictly gold and on being killed the player who was killed has the bounty gold amount removed from anywhere in their account (their character gold, bank, or even other characters on that account holding gold can have it drawn so there is no avoiding paying the bounty).

If a player worked up a 100k gold worth of bounty and only has 50k gold on their account the bounty the people who killed them is 50k and that person would now spawn with a 50k deficit that does not go away and as much gold as they get in their account becomes the increasing bounty for them again up to that remaining 50k.

The player flagged with a bounty results in a mark above that character that other people can see (much like the Dark Brotherhood hand marks over the targets). The current reward for that person (either the full bounty or the portion that person has in gold on their account at the time) is also displayed with the mark so people know the reward available for killing those people.

As a way to lessen gaming the system some implementation of limitations of the character such as blocking their ability to mail gold to other accounts would also be implemented. While a character could still go to fences to sell goods and buy supplies such places would become a hot spot for bounty hunters looking for their prey.

This would make killing guards extremely costly, effectively locking down any gold making on an account until that person has earned that gold and gotten killed for it until the bounty is paid off.

It would be a bit of wild west the good the bad and the ugly type of gameplay that would fairly fun to add. Although I think very few people would be killing guards at that point, which fixes a lot of the panic about guard slaughter.

Thoragaal wrote: »

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.

So basically you want to allow people to kill guards first and then go on a stealing and murdering spree?

Sorry, might be fun in a single player game but I would abosolutely hate it to see rampaging and murdering groups of players run around in all the game's towns town all day and have to step over piles of dead guards and other NPC's everywhere I go.
I would definitely quit the game if this were the case.
*

No.
People generally don't run around killing NPCs because it's "fun". They do it because they want loot from the NPCs..

Ah, so all we have to do to keep ESO analogue to the "Fires of Heaven" guild from getting rid of all the other people's guild traders is to make it so NPCs don't drop loot.
Now we only have to worry about the griefers; thank Azura there none of THOSE around. Totally extinct; nonexistant like bigfoot.

That was sarcasm, btw.

And that quote you took was from how the game is currently.
If you wanna make a thread about how killing NPCs in ESO should be removed entierly, feel free to do so.
For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!

...and the initial premise is because it's immersion breaking. Well, if one immortal NPC, or NPC type is immersion breaking, why are the others just fine? "But I can't steal indoors because of the guards"? I hate to be "that guy", but git gud? There are passives in the TG line, I think, maybe it's the DB line, that reduce the NPC detection range for illegal activities, they are well worth investing in. The same for Legerdemain. If it's going to be "but my build template that I copied from online doesn't allow me to allocate any points there", get a new build template, or, come up with your own. It's hilarious when I pull it off, but sometimes when I'm doing the get 3 /10 items via pickpocketing, sometimes I pickpocket the guards. Be sure to get Clemency too. Then when the guard approaches you, you can choose that dialog option, and just walk away.

Uryel wrote: »

As of today, guards hit like 10 years old, but take a beating that even Superman wouldn't take without a toll.

Makes me wonder how there was even a problem with Molag Baal and the planemeld. Just send a dozen guards to Coldharbour, problem solved.

There is a war in Cyrodiil ? Send a dozen guards, problem solved.

Dragons ? Send guards.

Well, I suppose you have two options:

Accept that maybe ZoS doesn't want people farming the guards, or

Find a game where you can farm the guards. I'd suggest swtor, as not only are they farmable, but there's even a weekly Conquest bonus for it sometimes.

Arunei wrote: »

If the guards were killable, it would also pretty much remove the only real potential risk of doing stuff like stealing and using the BoW

You mean there IS a risk ? Man, I can't even remember the last time I could NOT escape a guard. Several years ago, most likely...

Sevn wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

The guards have no purpose other than to stop you from stealing/murdering.

So basically you want to allow people to kill guards first and then go on a stealing and murdering spree?

Sorry, might be fun in a single player game but I would abosolutely hate it to see rampaging and murdering groups of players run around in all the game's towns town all day and have to step over piles of dead guards and other NPC's everywhere I go.
I would definitely quit the game if this were the case.
*

No.
People generally don't run around killing NPCs because it's "fun". They do it because they want loot from the NPCs..

Ah, so all we have to do to keep ESO analogue to the "Fires of Heaven" guild from getting rid of all the other people's guild traders is to make it so NPCs don't drop loot.
Now we only have to worry about the griefers; thank Azura there none of THOSE around. Totally extinct; nonexistant like bigfoot.

That was sarcasm, btw.

And that quote you took was from how the game is currently.
If you wanna make a thread about how killing NPCs in ESO should be removed entierly, feel free to do so.
For the 50th time, nobody is talking about anything other than guards!

Again, OP made this about immersion and his immersion doesn't trump anothers. Killable guards but that banker is immortal? Totally immersion breaking. If guards are made killable so should other NPC'S. Can't have it both ways.

Don't we already have it "both ways" though, as some NPCs are killable and others aren't? Clearly there are limitations to what people are asking for in terms of immersion.
Nobody says that his immersion is trumping others but that's why we're discussing things, right? If you're against it, so be it, but the thread isn not about having all NPCs being killable.
If we had killable guards and someone suggested "let's have all NPCs being killable" I'd be against it. But again, that's not what's being brought up.