Open letter to the ZoS team, re. Greymoor and game status

Nick_Balza · May 2020

I will add my opinion about all this. Anyway nobody except forum members will not read it

The letter is great and describes all points more than correctly.

Things I want to add are:

Terrible PR/ORM department. I understand that people, who are working in the community have another roles and I will never bite them for some flaws, which came from poor expertise of PR department. Allowing streamers play, when everyone else were watching loading screen is a terrible PR for company and streamers.
Case, where everyone had access to paid content, decreases the value of paid customer.
Such small things like questions about group BG were here starting from winter. And only at May 20 we got short response about urgent question, which was in many ways key reason to buy/not to buy new chapter. Same as a place, where people are discussing NB class. Developers noted that they are "keeping a close eye" on the thread. 2 years without response from people who are keeping an eye. Even after people left the game and cancelled subscriptions, there wasn't any reaction on it.
"Performance updates" doesn't provide any details except the fact that performance is getting worse straight after the big update, when all players had to download client again.
"No refunds" policy is just doesn't need to be commented.

Things I am mentioning are business/marketing/game design issues. I can add many more. And they are too obvious and already caused big amount of problems to business. Pay attention to your departments/business and take a control on what's going on in the studio. Product (and company) now is looking very chaotic, what means the chaos and miscommunication between departments. What is irresponsible to yourselves first of all. Because on this depend your salaries and ZOS's income. Do a favor to yourself and give your customer a reason to pay for your content.

Best regards!

Dr_Sinister · May 2020

copito wrote: »

It is our own damn fault. Many of us keep buying the DLCs and keep paying the monthly subscriptions. We keep rewarding ZOS for yet another failed patch update and the never ending server performance issues. The only way for things to change, is when we stop subscribing, stop buying the DLCs and last, stop playing the game for a while. This will then force ZOS to take care of things and take care of their customers.

This is every business tho. McDonalds make *** burgers yet millions still flock to their stores for those *** burgers. You can stop going there, I can stop going there but there's millions of sheep who will gladly hand out their money to places like this

Azurya · May 2020

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

ZOS isn't quite there yet, but they are catching up to Funcom in terms of launch day "prowess". That being Said, Funcom was much better at communication. At the very least, they apologised for the inconvenience.

An apology admits fault, any American company knows better. Apologies admit liability.

Almost every major game has growing pains with DLC launch. Especially something that changed as much as this one did.

true, it changed from almost playable to not able to access................

craybest · May 2020

why people want an apology so bad? I very much prefer the issues to be fixed and better communication overall.

Mancombe_Nosehair · May 2020

agegarton wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just wanna say that I have zero sympathy for most people complaining on these forums.

Firstly, why would you pay for something that you can’t yet access? A mount!? A pet!? Any individual of even minimal skills of comprehension can see that these things are tools for the sellers to guarantee ‘bank’ even if stuff like this happens. If players waited to pay when they knew they could actually consume said product this kind of situation would decrease greatly as the sellers would need it to work correctly on release to ensure investments were protected.

And secondly, how did none of you predict this, it was borderline inevitable? If you are a brand new player then maybe you could get a pass and your first experiences with this product may hold some weight. The devs might actually care about that kind of feedback. But 99% of you are not. This kind of thing is all too common here, and greatly accepted by most of the community, and even defended by some.

They still only have one log-in server for the whole world. They broke more than they fixed the last performance focused patches. Like, HELLO!!!

It's just not terribly constructive, is it?

They do have a point though. Anyone who has played here more than a year or another mmorg would have known that is was almost certainly going to happen.

I logged in at 1am two night ago to pick up the daily rewards, in expectation of the servers falling over. Whilst not everyone can do that, the whole situation should have been expected.

On the plus side, the forum has been providing excellent entertainment though;)

casparian · May 2020

I don't hold anything personally against the people who work at ZOS. I'm sure they work very hard on the game. But it's clear at this point that they have simply lost control of ESO. They can't make it work as they intend for it to work at even the most basic level, and don't know how to fix it.

Dr_Sinister · May 2020

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

On the plus side, the forum has been providing excellent entertainment though;)

You should read the Steam forums for ESO. It's spectacular lol

agegarton · May 2020

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just wanna say that I have zero sympathy for most people complaining on these forums.

Firstly, why would you pay for something that you can’t yet access? A mount!? A pet!? Any individual of even minimal skills of comprehension can see that these things are tools for the sellers to guarantee ‘bank’ even if stuff like this happens. If players waited to pay when they knew they could actually consume said product this kind of situation would decrease greatly as the sellers would need it to work correctly on release to ensure investments were protected.

And secondly, how did none of you predict this, it was borderline inevitable? If you are a brand new player then maybe you could get a pass and your first experiences with this product may hold some weight. The devs might actually care about that kind of feedback. But 99% of you are not. This kind of thing is all too common here, and greatly accepted by most of the community, and even defended by some.

They still only have one log-in server for the whole world. They broke more than they fixed the last performance focused patches. Like, HELLO!!!

It's just not terribly constructive, is it?

They do have a point though. Anyone who has played here more than a year or another mmorg would have known that is was almost certainly going to happen.

I logged in at 1am two night ago to pick up the daily rewards, in expectation of the servers falling over. Whilst not everyone can do that, the whole situation should have been expected.

On the plus side, the forum has been providing excellent entertainment though;)

I guess there is a point in that some of us have continued to spend cash, play, and support the game - but most of us do so in the hope that things will improve. In fact, we're regularly promised improvements - occasionally we take a step forward, but then we take two steps back! And look, I do appreciate that a lot that we all want to do in the game works just fine.

I'm not sure it's fair to say that we "should have expected it [the Greymoor launch]" to be a disaster. Maybe that's just me being unusually optimistic, but I was genuinely hoping for a smooth launch this time around. I was hoping that the improved communication and the published improvement strategy was going to work out.

Mancombe_Nosehair · May 2020

agegarton wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just wanna say that I have zero sympathy for most people complaining on these forums.

Firstly, why would you pay for something that you can’t yet access? A mount!? A pet!? Any individual of even minimal skills of comprehension can see that these things are tools for the sellers to guarantee ‘bank’ even if stuff like this happens. If players waited to pay when they knew they could actually consume said product this kind of situation would decrease greatly as the sellers would need it to work correctly on release to ensure investments were protected.

And secondly, how did none of you predict this, it was borderline inevitable? If you are a brand new player then maybe you could get a pass and your first experiences with this product may hold some weight. The devs might actually care about that kind of feedback. But 99% of you are not. This kind of thing is all too common here, and greatly accepted by most of the community, and even defended by some.

They still only have one log-in server for the whole world. They broke more than they fixed the last performance focused patches. Like, HELLO!!!

It's just not terribly constructive, is it?

They do have a point though. Anyone who has played here more than a year or another mmorg would have known that is was almost certainly going to happen.

I logged in at 1am two night ago to pick up the daily rewards, in expectation of the servers falling over. Whilst not everyone can do that, the whole situation should have been expected.

On the plus side, the forum has been providing excellent entertainment though;)

I guess there is a point in that some of us have continued to spend cash, play, and support the game - but most of us do so in the hope that things will improve. In fact, we're regularly promised improvements - occasionally we take a step forward, but then we take two steps back! And look, I do appreciate that a lot that we all want to do in the game works just fine.

I'm not sure it's fair to say that we "should have expected it [the Greymoor launch]" to be a disaster. Maybe that's just me being unusually optimistic, but I was genuinely hoping for a smooth launch this time around. I was hoping that the improved communication and the published improvement strategy was going to work out.

I wrote on the forum on 5th April that there would likely be a login queue for pc eu on the introduction of Greymoor. I'm sure I wasn't the only prophet:0

agegarton · May 2020

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just wanna say that I have zero sympathy for most people complaining on these forums.

Firstly, why would you pay for something that you can’t yet access? A mount!? A pet!? Any individual of even minimal skills of comprehension can see that these things are tools for the sellers to guarantee ‘bank’ even if stuff like this happens. If players waited to pay when they knew they could actually consume said product this kind of situation would decrease greatly as the sellers would need it to work correctly on release to ensure investments were protected.

And secondly, how did none of you predict this, it was borderline inevitable? If you are a brand new player then maybe you could get a pass and your first experiences with this product may hold some weight. The devs might actually care about that kind of feedback. But 99% of you are not. This kind of thing is all too common here, and greatly accepted by most of the community, and even defended by some.

They still only have one log-in server for the whole world. They broke more than they fixed the last performance focused patches. Like, HELLO!!!

It's just not terribly constructive, is it?

They do have a point though. Anyone who has played here more than a year or another mmorg would have known that is was almost certainly going to happen.

I logged in at 1am two night ago to pick up the daily rewards, in expectation of the servers falling over. Whilst not everyone can do that, the whole situation should have been expected.

On the plus side, the forum has been providing excellent entertainment though;)

I guess there is a point in that some of us have continued to spend cash, play, and support the game - but most of us do so in the hope that things will improve. In fact, we're regularly promised improvements - occasionally we take a step forward, but then we take two steps back! And look, I do appreciate that a lot that we all want to do in the game works just fine.

I'm not sure it's fair to say that we "should have expected it [the Greymoor launch]" to be a disaster. Maybe that's just me being unusually optimistic, but I was genuinely hoping for a smooth launch this time around. I was hoping that the improved communication and the published improvement strategy was going to work out.

I wrote on the forum on 5th April that there would likely be a login queue for pc eu on the introduction of Greymoor. I'm sure I wasn't the only prophet:0

You want to give me next week's lotto numbers ?

Twilanthe · May 2020

As someone familiar with the corporate world I can say that they will not offer an apology, as that opens them up to liability. It would be nice, but I do not foresee that happening.

And in all honestly, I don't personally need an apology. If they just want to actually fix the issues, quietly and without admitting everything was ever wrong, I'd be OK with that. I don't really care about blame, and apologies and plans and the like. I'd just rather have them fix it and move on.

Destai · May 2020

craybest wrote: »

why people want an apology so bad? I very much prefer the issues to be fixed and better communication overall.

Personally, I'd just love to see some self-awareness from a company that constantly insulates themselves from any criticism. I get that ZOS is probably frustrated, but I feel like they're constantly making missteps.

They should have delayed this expansion until Covid-19 wound down. I sure wouldn't have faulted them. They should have just devoted the summer to stabiizing this game before introducing a whole new set of content right now. Many MMOs launches have issues, but the volume of issues we've been seeing this whole year is really reflecting poorly on ZOS. Couple that with the history of bugs and tone-deafness, I think the community at large is owed an apology at this point. One month of ESO+ or something more than just a little bug pet (ironic choice), plus a public statement.

This year has not been the best for ESO and I'm just hoping it gets better.

BloodMagicLord · May 2020

JJBoomer wrote: »

wanders_the_swamps wrote: »

@JJBoomer agreed. people unhappy with the state of the game should simple stop the eso+ sub until zos gets the message and tries to improve on customer satisfaction. im done with my sub coz they wrecked my main class and race so that's it from me.

the thing is, people are never happy with the state of the game no matter what ZOS does. I don't blame them for not engaging with players more. Whats the point if everyone is unhappy no matter what happens? and thats the thing. Every update, every patch people are on here bemoaning how things aren't perfect, lamenting about coding and programming not being a perfect science, yet could barely do better themselves if they tried; because they're too busy playing a game, shoveling cheetos into their mouths while obsessing about breasts to actually go to school to become an actual game developer and instead getting their degrees from their computer chairs.

Frankly its the complaining and bashing ZOS has gotten old and pathetic. Either accept that there are going to be bugs with this game or leave. If 6+ years of screaming your frustrations, then 6 more years isn't going to change anything. Play the game with all its flaws or don't. that is a choice everyone has.

You obviously don't play end-game content. It hasn't worked properly due to server problems, for months. If you think complaining about that is not fair on ZOS then you simply do not have a reasonable position on this issue.

themaddaedra · May 2020

This is a well written post. However;

Steev_z wrote: »

You know you don't have to be here right?

this summarizes ZOS' stance on the matter so well. They are just not kind of company that admits mistakes, dives deep into their problems to find permanent solutions, cares for their image on people who pay to them etc. They've just proven it over and over again, that they won't preoritize anything over the flowing money.

Just look at their marketing preferances, social media promotions etc, it's not hard to see. The chapter came out as a total, unplayable, unacceptable mess, yet all they do is to keep promoting stuff like nothing serious is going on.

I don't know, i feel like they've repeatedly told us to leave and let them be with their flow from false-advertised products.

ZOS_Ragnar · May 2020

We have removed a few posts from this thread that were determined to violate the forum rule against baiting posts.

agegarton · May 2020

........and more maintenance. I think this is a new record.

shaielzafine · May 2020

@themaddaedra I think the quote you're referring to in that is also something one of the game directors has said before. He said it on these forums years ago & it's still pretty consistent with the way they are communicating now.

http://imgur.com/gallery/JDDu06m

Jaimeh · May 2020

JJBoomer wrote: »

Frankly its the complaining and bashing ZOS has gotten old and pathetic. Either accept that there are going to be bugs with this game or leave. If 6+ years of screaming your frustrations, then 6 more years isn't going to change anything. Play the game with all its flaws or don't. that is a choice everyone has.

The OP was expressing their opinion and frustration about the game in a constructive manner, there's a huge difference between that and bashing, for example, you calling them 'pathetic' could be considered as bashing.

To get back on topic, nicely written OP, agree with most points. It's sad times that players feel they have to write imploring messages to the devs to fix their game, but that's what it has come to. From the view point of a somewhat end-game PvE-er, the continuous performance issues, the back-to-back combat changes (which in some cases were introduced, and then again reversed in the following patch, and so on), combined with some bizzare, unjustifiable nerfs to skills and sets, the addition of more grinding in the form of perfected weapons, but most of all the stuttery, slugish, lagfest of a combat situation has made many raid groups retire, and a lot of communities feel empty, disengaged and reluctant to play. What's the point of having all that wonderful content if you can't actually play it to the fullest, and if the devs seem, by way of their decisions, so out of touch with their own combat system and playerbase... I doubt they will take any of this into consideration, it's sad because ESO's community is so involved, and provides so much intelligent testing and feedback.

Jakx · May 2020

Actually didnt buy Greymoor because I did not see these issues getting better. Could have never predicted how bad it would all become.

I did my part. ESOVIP email from Bethesda asked me for feedback as to why I quit. I gave them two pages of examples of how game performance has entirely degraded and combat, a core tenet, has become unplayable. I received a copy/paste response back for my efforts. That doesn't sound like a company interested in getting better. I was no longer valued because I stopped paying but I am pretty sure I was never valued in the first place beyond my head count.

Cya.

The_Lex · May 2020

Jakx wrote: »

Actually didnt buy Greymoor because I did not see these issues getting better. Could have never predicted how bad it would all become.

I did my part. ESOVIP email from Bethesda asked me for feedback as to why I quit. I gave them two pages of examples of how game performance has entirely degraded and combat, a core tenet, has become unplayable. I received a copy/paste response back for my efforts. That doesn't sound like a company interested in getting better. I was no longer valued because I stopped paying but I am pretty sure I was never valued in the first place beyond my head count.

Cya.

I didn't even bother submitting mine. I knew it would end up being a waste of time.

Berek_Bloodfang · May 2020

This couldn’t be a more accurate post.

agegarton · May 2020

Just a quick thanks for the positive comments

Leslik · May 2020