Who else is prepared to cure their vampire characters after Greymoor goes live?

Stanx · May 2020

Cured my main yesterday. Actually like the idea that I won't need to be a vamp anymore

Dr_Ganknstein · May 2020

Varana wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

You also get more damage from fire damage and fighters guild abilities and horrible health recovery, or did you forget all the draw backs?

Don't matter in PvE.

It does in PVP and if you noticed the ESO logo is the Ouroboros displaying the three alliances at war with each other, not fungel grotto.

craybest · May 2020

I'm happy with the changes. Now vampire isn't just for everyone who wants a cheap passive. But those who want to actually play as one. It was before that was an issue.

Lotus781 · May 2020

Stage 1 all the way, which is a pity because the feeding animation looks like the best thing about the update.

Michae · May 2020

I have my vampire on stage one all the time because I like the looks and for rp purposes. I couldn't care less about some passives. I like my games to be fun, I don't need to look up spreadsheets of data to make my character hit with 1% more strength or have 1% more immunity to peanut allergy.

Gabrielzavadski · May 2020

Going to build a pvp Sap magblade with vampirism, ESOBuildEditor tooltips are too good to be true o.O

Dr_Ganknstein · May 2020

I bet most these people that are pro-vampire changes don't and will not play vampires anyway. They are angry people that are salty because they can't win in pvp or get out shined in pve.

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

Icky wrote: »

I bet most these people that are pro-vampire changes don't and will not play vampires anyway. They are angry people that are salty because they can't win in pvp or get out shined in pve.

I like your Gankstein videos, but you only win from vampire changes. There will be less vampires = easier to gank because less people with Mist and Undeath. You will have free extra 300 base WD for burst without even slotting anything, simply be a stage 2. You can now stealth at full speed without being stage 4.
If I am wrong, tell me what's wrong. So far nobody told anything reasonable about how new vampire is bad for PVP (for PVE tanks and stamdps, sure vamprisim is not an option anymore).

Varana · May 2020

Icky wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

You also get more damage from fire damage and fighters guild abilities and horrible health recovery, or did you forget all the draw backs?

Don't matter in PvE.

It does in PVP and if you noticed the ESO logo is the Ouroboros displaying the three alliances at war with each other, not fungel grotto.

ESO also claims to have "fast-paced combat". That excludes the PvP experience of one skill every five seconds.

I suspect many (or most) players who cry over losing free regen and mitigation, don't really care about PvP. Bringing up PvP-related disadvantages doesn't address that in any way.

huntgod_ESO · May 2020

I run vamp for two reasons, sustain and fast sneak...I will give the new vamp a try, but doubt I will keep it.

TheImperfect · May 2020

I'm going to try to keep my magicka dragonknight breton a vampire but it depends if gameplay is fun and effective. She is in a pretty good place right now but if this change makes her naff then I'll cure her but I'll certainly try it out and try to make it work.

Deathlord92 · May 2020

I’m going to try my very best to make vampire work on both my stamblade and magblade.

Dr_Ganknstein · May 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

I bet most these people that are pro-vampire changes don't and will not play vampires anyway. They are angry people that are salty because they can't win in pvp or get out shined in pve.

I like your Gankstein videos, but you only win from vampire changes. There will be less vampires = easier to gank because less people with Mist and Undeath. You will have free extra 300 base WD for burst without even slotting anything, simply be a stage 2. You can now stealth at full speed without being stage 4.
If I am wrong, tell me what's wrong. So far nobody told anything reasonable about how new vampire is bad for PVP (for PVE tanks and stamdps, sure vamprisim is not an option anymore).

Thats true, I only liked vampire mainly for the darkstalker passive. I'm glad they decreased the cost of non-vampire abilities to 3% from 5. I just looked at the recent changes such as that one and its looking a little better. Will have to see.

navystylz_ESO · May 2020

Djeriko wrote: »

Updates to vampires have been needed for a while. Cool animations are great. New abilities are very welcome. But at what cost? Some players became vampires mainly to assist with sustain on certain builds as vampires came with an increase in recovery on a passive. With the loss of the Supernatural Recovery passive, I've lost my reason to have any vampires. When Greymoor drops, instead of a tradeoff for lost health recovery but receiving increased magic and stamina recovery, I'll just lose health recovery. So I'll be cutting my losses. The priest in Bankorai will get a boom in business for a while. Cool story and new abilities aside, I've made it obvious that I think ZOS dropped the ball here. Feel free to disagree but I suspect I'm not alone in saying losing Supernatural Recovery is a bad idea.

I don't really feel for those who only wanted a passive for recovery. Those players don't want to be an actual vampire anyway. I feel for the people who will get a version that isn't playable for any serious content. A rework that has ridiculously moronic numbers that ZOS in some twist of mind boggling logic, felt was ok to go live. A rework that is even worse the higher the stage you go, making the few who were looking forward to the "all in" vampire style be penalized even worse with questionable gain.

And since the only reason I was going to look past Zos's horrible handling of all expansion chapters was the vampire rework, I refunded my Greymoor and 6 month sub. Speak with wallet, not coming on forums saying how disappointed I am while continuing to support these inane decisions 4 times a year.

merpins · May 2020

My only problem with the new vamp is the excessive new addition that increases the cost of non-vampire abilities. You already take a ton more damage from fire (a very common damage type in the game) and lose all (or most) of your health recovery. 20% increase (stage 4) to all non-vampire abilities? I believe, like the original Molag Kena helm, that that much is overtuned. No one used molag kena at 20% increase, and no one uses it at 8% (though more use it now with that change). I firmly believe that stage 4 should be somewhere between a 8% and a 12% increase, however I don't think an increase in cost is necessary at all.

It might be there to balance out the cost reduction of vampire abilities, but that's still covered by the fire damage and the hp regeneration decrease IMO. I'm going to test it out, see how often I can keep the Perfect Scion morph of the ultimate up and if that increases my overall dps, and if it still causes me to have problems with sustain, or it seems to lower my dps too much, I'll either keep it at stage 1 most of the time or get it cured on my main dps.

DreamsUnderStars · May 2020

I only made mine a vampire because I wanted to play her as a maomer.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun · May 2020

mavfin wrote: »

When a skill line is added by most players who use it solely just for 2 passives, and not the active skills, then it's good that they're making it more active

People keep saying this and I gotta ask, what's more, "active" about this rework than what we already had? Drain does what it always did. Mist Form does what it always did. Bloody Frenzy is passive effect. Blood Scion doesn't function any differently than Bat Swarm did.

So, what makes the vampire suddenly so active now? Spamming Eviscerate?

Gabrielzavadski · May 2020

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I only made mine a vampire because I wanted to play her as a maomer.

lolwut ??

Sephyr · May 2020

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

mavfin wrote: »

When a skill line is added by most players who use it solely just for 2 passives, and not the active skills, then it's good that they're making it more active

People keep saying this and I gotta ask, what's more, "active" about this rework than what we already had? Drain does what it always did. Mist Form does what it always did. Bloody Frenzy is passive effect. Blood Scion doesn't function any differently than Bat Swarm did.

So, what makes the vampire suddenly so active now? Spamming Eviscerate?

That's what they think. When they actually get stuck with it, I guarantee they'll cure it within a month because they're just tired of not being able to have a ranged spammable/stamina morph. Drain is also worse than what it is currently on live because there's no stun. Not even an off-balance. Blood Frenzy is also a death sentence no matter how you look at it due to it's exponential health cost increase per second.

WTB Pre-PTS vampire skill line please.

navystylz_ESO · May 2020

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

My only problem with the new vamp is the excessive new addition that increases the cost of non-vampire abilities. You already take a ton more damage from fire (a very common damage type in the game) and lose all (or most) of your health recovery. 20% increase (stage 4) to all non-vampire abilities?

They reduced it to 3/6/9/12 in PTS 6.0.3

But instead absolutely destroyed vampire ability reduction by almost 50% and destroyed Blood Frenzy in the process.

Vevvev · May 2020

Gabrielzavadski wrote: »

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I only made mine a vampire because I wanted to play her as a maomer.

lolwut ??

Its a typical thing roleplayers do. Get a Altmer character and infect them with vampirism. Then use the Oracle Eyes cosmetic and they'll look exactly like a Maormer NPC.

TropicsDelight · May 2020

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

They reduced it to 3/6/9/12 in PTS 6.0.3

But instead absolutely destroyed vampire ability reduction by almost 50% and destroyed Blood Frenzy in the process

That is the worst travesty of it all.

In an effort to placate the meta passive regen masses the devs gutted the vampire skill cost reduction and made many of the most costly tick per a second skills almost unusable. And for what? The people who wanted free passive regen still hate the changes and plan to quit it anyhow because it is the absolute opposite of meta at this point.

So now we have a vampire line with a virtually unusable skill set because of the nerf to the vampire skill cost reduction and skills that the devs knew full well from the start needed a pretty heavy cost reduction to be viable in actual play because of the steep cost/tick those skills have.

Now the skill set is going to be going to the live server in a mess and the actual game will become the vampire line test 2.0.

Flaminir · May 2020

Cureing all mine, just leaving it on one crafting alt so I have a character I can give free bites to guildies with if they want them.

Just feels like far too many sacrifices and far too situational to run considering I like to do a bit of everything in the game. It will be a hinderance to a big chunk of it now.

Nova_J · May 2020

TropicsDelight wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

They reduced it to 3/6/9/12 in PTS 6.0.3

But instead absolutely destroyed vampire ability reduction by almost 50% and destroyed Blood Frenzy in the process

That is the worst travesty of it all.

In an effort to placate the meta passive regen masses the devs gutted the vampire skill cost reduction and made many of the most costly tick per a second skills almost unusable. And for what? The people who wanted free passive regen still hate the changes and plan to quit it anyhow because it is the absolute opposite of meta at this point.

So now we have a vampire line with a virtually unusable skill set because of the nerf to the vampire skill cost reduction and skills that the devs knew full well from the start needed a pretty heavy cost reduction to be viable in actual play because of the steep cost/tick those skills have.

Now the skill set is going to be going to the live server in a mess and the actual game will become the vampire line test 2.0.

....omg are you serious???? This had nothing to do with people who wanted to keep the damn regen passives smh. I swear every single thing is always about "people want to play vamp with no drawbacks" or "you just want the regen passives!". How about they did it because it pigeonholed you into a single build??? How about they did it because vamps only have 5 skills now and people have 5 other skill slots to use??? How about they did it because you couldn't play anything outside of a dps past stage 1?? If you didnt have a mag dps toon then you weren't really even able to use the new skill line because of the cost increase. They didnt even completely remove it but apparently that's not enough for you guys because 3-12% still isn't enough of a "drawback". And because they reduced the regular skill.cost increase they reduced the vamp skill cost decrease. Anyone shouldve been able to see that they needed to adjust the new skill cost again to fit the vamps current passives. But instead the cost is still balanced around the old cost decrease system.

And blood frenzy was completely on the devs. People gave them numerous ideas to balance that skill so everyone wouldn't be able to abuse it at stage 1 with no drawbacks. But of course, they start with a hammer so now blood frenzy is hot garbage. Stop riding the "everyone wants the regen passive" train. I'm tired of seeing people blame the devs choices on them when they had nothing to do with it.

technohic · May 2020

Yeah I'm going to use it, at least at first; to take advantage of passive bonuses it gives to non-vampire stuff with no interest in really playing vampire. I think that's where they screwed it up out the gate. In stead of offering interesting vampire themed options in abilities, they threw in powerful extra damage buffs, sprint cost reduction, and invisibility passively. They could remove a lot of penalties buy moving that to active vampire abilities and make passives benefit vampire specifically.

navystylz_ESO · May 2020

Nova_J wrote: »

They didnt even completely remove it but apparently that's not enough for you guys because 3-12% still isn't enough of a "drawback". And because they reduced the regular skill.cost increase they reduced the vamp skill cost decrease. Anyone shouldve been able to see that they needed to adjust the new skill cost again to fit the vamps current passives.

Woah. Not one person thinks that reducing the normal cost penalty was a bad thing. On the contrary, every last one of us prior to 6.0.3 was saying those numbers needed to be tweaked so people could use their normal abilities.

The ISSUE is they completely gutted vampire cost reduction. You won't get anyone to believe destroying being a vampire was a necessary evil in order to reduce normal ability cost. The pendulum swinging the opposite direction, even harder than the ability cost increase, to completely gut the whole point of the damn skill line, wasn't the answer. You're meant to take the skill line *gasp* to be a vampire. Reducing the cost reduction to a max of 24% will insure no one seriously uses stage 4. The costs for vampire skill are high and the reduction is too little. No one is going to use the trash that is Vampire Lord after they ruined that as well. And while the reduction is a tiny smidge more than current live, all the abilities cost were raised so now you have a bunch of abilities that cost more than other similar abilities in game--just because.

So what are you left with? The people who want to use their normal abilities more than being a vampire, who will also stay at max stage 2. Congratulations. People will treat vampire similar to what is already on live and we STILL won't be encouraged to play as a penalty ridden stage 4 vampire.

So what do you get with new skill line:

Vampire abilities cost more
You get 0 health recovery now
Slightly less, but still increased fire damage taken
Higher normal ability costs
Same increased damage taken from fighter guild at all times
Loss of stamina/magicka regen
Main spammable melee locked on a line that mostly magicka will use
Increased damage from stealth
Increased damage toggle that kills you, and since you can't keep it up, nets way less damage increase to offset all the new penalties
Stubbing your toe on pebbles whittling your health away -- You WILL find many instances where you're sitting at 50-75% health unless you have a normal self heal slotted.
Way better feeding animamtion with blade of woe mechanics, but no longer heals
Sprint into stealth
Reduced damage starting at 100% health -- but also ignored by toggling frenzy

All the bolded items are just straight up penalties or things contrived to kill you easier in game just being a vampire. Also frenzy a bit buggy and clicking it off doesn't register sometimes and continues to kill you.

MailusExNihilo · May 2020

Old vampires were awesome, they could make any kind of build, and they werent pigeon holed into a very narrow, predictable, hardly viable minimal ammount of builds strictly related to being a vampire... The new ultimate looks cheap and ridiculous... Besides... So every single vampire is a vampire lord... GREAT, like syndrome say... When everyone's a super, nobody is"

As someone else commented, one of the strenghts of ESO was the ability to make your own build no matter how meta or functional they were... It wasnt so much making your class, as designing your hero.

I hope devs have the empathy, thoughfulness or foresight to bring back the old vampires, and have these new ones be a different type of vampire, since lore supports more vampire types than playable races available in the game... Why the hell break something that "just works" like Todd would say, with great flexibility, and not remotely op or gamebreaking and replace it by some stiff, hardly functional, highly disliked set of NERFS.

I´m still on the fence aobut buying greymoor, since i only play with my main, who is a vampire, and have negative interest in creating any other character... I am a subber, and bought the chapters... I can't even begin to comprehend the lack of foresight, and how shortsighted pushing these changes from the devs. Do they recieve feedback? Have they heard of how well productions that listen to the fans do? Look at the Sonic movie, a completely average movie that got praised so much, because of the good will of the crews involved to give the fans what they actually want... it isnt entitlement, as i said, have your new dreadful, non fun new vampires... But leave the old chad vampires too as an option for those with common sense that like to have fun in a videogame... what a crazy notion... "fun in a videogame"... Man, i must be losing my mind for thinking such thing...

If they don't want to bring the old vampires, remove that nonsense of cost reduction, that alone makes other builds utterly impossible. Just imagine the nonsense in conceptual terms... "nah, that sword swing is too exhausing... while im fully fed, and more powerful"... MAKE SOME SENSE PLEASE!

Stamina vampires are a thing of the past, GG.

Devs look at this thread, read the many points made by players with experience and a pulse, take back this ridiculous change, or simply allow to have 2 types of vampires, your lore supports it.

My condolences to all other vamp players, you deserve better... You had better, but it was simply taken from you.

Silaf · May 2020

A new skilline require skillpoints and time so it should be rewarded somehow. Vampirism at this point is a big demerit.

Salvas_Aren · May 2020

I will probably cure all chars that are not nightblades.

Vevvev · May 2020

Been seeing lots of people lining up for vampire bites today. Most of them I talked to are completely unaware of the new changes and some even argued with me and called me a liar saying that "Stage 4 doesn't have -100% health regen and NPCs do talk to you!".

Kept having to repeat I was talking about the rework arriving tomorrow. This is going to be.... Interesting to say the least.