Yep, it alredy has a lot of counters. In fact it would probably win a contest if you would ask:Cloak is literally the one ability in the tool kit that doesnt need to change.
Fur_like_snow wrote: »Cloak is strong against bad players who don’t have a counter but very weak against groups or good players. Unfortunately as long as cloak exists you’ll probably never see any meaningful buffs to NB. Moving away from cloak is the best thing NBs could ask for their class.
Fur_like_snow wrote: »Cloak is strong against bad players who don’t have a counter but very weak against groups or good players. Unfortunately as long as cloak exists you’ll probably never see any meaningful buffs to NB. Moving away from cloak is the best thing NBs could ask for their class.
One solution would be to make cloak universal skill, maybe in vampire skill line or a new illusion skill line. Then give NBs something to replace cloak.
Fur_like_snow wrote: »In oblivion my 2H wielding Orc warrior used illusion magic to some degree not much different than cloak in ESO. Now vampires can passively turn invisible. Other classes can use invisibility potions, like a sorc who streaks X3 then hits his pot. In many ways that’s better than a NB using cloak.
You guys clutch at cloak like someone snatching your pearls because you think the class would disappear without it(no pun intended). But that’s my point, NB wouldn’t die off. Zeni would have to give NB something else to work with if cloak went universal. They would have to rebalance the toolkit. Open your minds guys this isn’t the same game from launch day they didn’t have wardens and Necros running around back then with all their crazy buffs and debuffs.
If you want your class to be better ask ZeniMax to move away from cloak not doubling down on the BS.
Fur_like_snow wrote: »In oblivion my 2H wielding Orc warrior used illusion magic to some degree not much different than cloak in ESO. Now vampires can passively turn invisible. Other classes can use invisibility potions, like a sorc who streaks X3 then hits his pot. In many ways that’s better than a NB using cloak.
You guys clutch at cloak like someone snatching your pearls because you think the class would disappear without it(no pun intended). But that’s my point, NB wouldn’t die off. Zeni would have to give NB something else to work with if cloak went universal. They would have to rebalance the toolkit. Open your minds guys this isn’t the same game from launch day they didn’t have wardens and Necros running around back then with all their crazy buffs and debuffs.
If you want your class to be better ask ZeniMax to move away from cloak not doubling down on the BS.
Fur_like_snow wrote: »In oblivion my 2H wielding Orc warrior used illusion magic to some degree not much different than cloak in ESO. Now vampires can passively turn invisible. Other classes can use invisibility potions, like a sorc who streaks X3 then hits his pot. In many ways that’s better than a NB using cloak.
You guys clutch at cloak like someone snatching your pearls because you think the class would disappear without it(no pun intended). But that’s my point, NB wouldn’t die off. Zeni would have to give NB something else to work with if cloak went universal. They would have to rebalance the toolkit. Open your minds guys this isn’t the same game from launch day they didn’t have wardens and Necros running around back then with all their crazy buffs and debuffs.
If you want your class to be better ask ZeniMax to move away from cloak not doubling down on the BS.
What your saying might more or less be true, but then it wouldnt be a nightblade, and then more or less half of us wouldnt play this game anymore.
Cloak is not even close to being overpowered. Heck i dont even think its the noobs that are complaining about it. Its the mid teir guys who feel offended that their easy kill managed to escape. The same people who call nightblades the cowards class because for some reason a player escaping death just offends them so.
Ironically those narrow escapes are half the fun of the class and the distraction power is immense.
The true power of cloak is its ability to split a zerg group in half because its members cant stand to let a single piddly nightblade get away. Incidentally its those same players who get side tracked by the trolls who cry the loudest that cloak needs to be nerfed.
Fur_like_snow wrote: »One solution would be to make cloak universal skill, maybe in vampire skill line or a new illusion skill line. Then give NBs something to replace cloak.
Fur_like_snow wrote: »In oblivion my 2H wielding Orc warrior used illusion magic to some degree not much different than cloak in ESO. Now vampires can passively turn invisible. Other classes can use invisibility potions, like a sorc who streaks X3 then hits his pot. In many ways that’s better than a NB using cloak.
You guys clutch at cloak like someone snatching your pearls because you think the class would disappear without it(no pun intended). But that’s my point, NB wouldn’t die off. Zeni would have to give NB something else to work with if cloak went universal. They would have to rebalance the toolkit. Open your minds guys this isn’t the same game from launch day they didn’t have wardens and Necros running around back then with all their crazy buffs and debuffs.
If you want your class to be better ask ZeniMax to move away from cloak not doubling down on the BS.
I'm flabbergasted at this point why players think they can do better than ZOS when they propose complete reworks of a class or at least a major feature, such as Cloak. May I ask your credentials? Do you personally have problems with NBs?MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Nightblades in general are in a current state of identity crisis of which most of the community agrees. Of that there is no question. However, when it comes to NB's, there is one skill in their whole kit that repeatedly is the source of much contention and disagreement... CLOAK.
Some players argue that it is too strong and are calling for even more nerfs to the skill, whereas others are saying it is too easy to be revealed and too expensive to use, particularly on Stamblades. I asked myself, "Why is the community on one extreme or the other?" I have spent a long time thinking about this, and the only conclusion I keep coming back to again and again, is that the skill itself is not really doing what it should be doing.
So the question is, "What should cloak do and how should it work?" I think we as a community and ZOS need to come to some sort of agreement on this, otherwise its going to be a constant back and forth 'buff cloak, nerf cloak' argument that never ends. I propose a complete rework from the ground up on this ability, obviously I think that this should be done at the same time as a full NB rework as otherwise you run the risk of messing things up. With that being said I would like to pitch one direction that ZOS could take this ability and after explain my reasoning behind it. So here it is.
Shadow Cloak:
Cloak yourself in shadow to become permanently invisible. Attacking an enemy target, taking damage or reveal effects will break cloak. You cannot reactivate this ability for 8 seconds once cloak has been broken.
Shadowy Disguise:
When you activate this ability you cannot be revealed by outside effects for the first 2 seconds. Breaking invisibility with an attack will cause that attack to always be a Critical Strike. If you are below 25% health, the cool down of this ability is reduced by 4 seconds.
Dark Cloak:
Shroud yourself in protective shadow to heal for XX every 1 second, over 10 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your highest resource. You gain Minor Protection while shrouded, reducing your damage taken by 8% and remove up to 2 negative effects. No longer has a cool down.
Things that break cloak:
1. Any damage attack or heal ability activated by the NB themselves.
2. Taking any direct AOE damage, damage from ground effects or enemy channeled damage effects.
3. Reveal effects from certain skills and NPC's with detection.
Things that do not break cloak:
1. Any damage over time or ground effect activated by a Nightblade BEFORE cloak activation.
2. Non- damage skills such as buffs and debuffs, examples include 'Mark Target, Grim Focus, Blur, Siphoning Strikes, Weakness to Elements, Momentum etc etc.'
3. Any direct damage over time effects on the NB applied before cloak activation EXCEPT the Burning Status effect.
Reasons for the above change:
1. Currently I believe the current contention is due to the ability being too spammy while also being too easily revealed the above change would remove its spammy nature while giving ample time to get out of trouble if used tactically and not out of panic.
2. The cool down reduction at 25% Health would be for emergencies but against good players would not be so useful as 25% health is easy to burst down in a 4 second window.
3. The Dark Cloak morph changed to scale with highest resource would make it an option for all builds and not just tanks. The cleanse makes it even more appealing and a viable alternative when losing the option of going stealth.
Conclusion: The nature of the ability would have changed, making it more of a setup ability to use while you get in position and buff up before opening on an unsuspecting target, while at the same time giving an opportunity for counter play from enemy players. You could argue that it ignores PVE, but having a permanent cloak would be great in PVE, allowing a player to move through areas without hindrance. Besides, Vampires are getting permanent cloak anyway so is this really going to hurt? This would separate cloak and make it stand out on its own and give NB's in general a little bit of the flavour they have lost.
Your opinion.MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Cloak SHOULD be permanent until it is broken, but then put on a cooldown.
What if I don't agree with your premise? The class is what it is. I don't care what you call it.This without question moves the class CLOSER to the assassin playstyle not away from it.
That is what ZOS have moved towards, possibly because Gilliam played a bruiser. Weird steps like the resistance buildup on Grim Focus explicitly moved it in that direction. You know why? Because stamblades WERE assassins. There were many players who built heavily into damage, because TTK was short and that made ganking viable. The players who only did that, who were powerful when they had Minor Berserk and Major Fracture and Defile, became shadows of themselves when I ran into them more recently. ZOS' nerfs worked and they were deliberate. The casuals have spoken: They don't want to be so easily assassinated.The class does not 'feel' like an assassin and as others have said, to PVP properly with NB's you are better off building a bruiser.
But that is what any nightblade still does today, without problems, and will kill their target. I don't think that's where most nightblades feel they have a problem. Most complain about lack of 1v1 performance and of not fitting into BG metas. I suppose 2 seconds of guaranteed Cloak inside an AOE would help, but the NB won't have that, because she jumped into the fight from Cloak for the crit opener (and Caluurion in my case), then can't cloak to get out. She will need Shadow Image. She won't be able to dodge roll and rely on speed and Cloak, like I do.Assassins are all about picking their target and ambushing stragglers or enemies in vulnerable positions.
I certainly was not thinking that.If anything I think Cloak in its current form is underpowered, so if you think I was complaining about it being OP think again.
Here's another problem. Healing Ward and Regen currently uncloak you. So you believe ZOS will catch that one and adjust it? Or you're telling me I have to find a rock to hide behind so I can cast my healing out of sight, wait for 8 seconds, then reenter the fight? All the while stamblades can Rally, because that does not uncloak you? What if I want to top off resources with Meditate for a second? What if I want to use Purge to clean off sorc curses and the like? I have to wait 8 seconds to reenter cloak? No thank you.
Here's another problem. Healing Ward and Regen currently uncloak you. So you believe ZOS will catch that one and adjust it? Or you're telling me I have to find a rock to hide behind so I can cast my healing out of sight, wait for 8 seconds, then reenter the fight? All the while stamblades can Rally, because that does not uncloak you? What if I want to top off resources with Meditate for a second? What if I want to use Purge to clean off sorc curses and the like? I have to wait 8 seconds to reenter cloak? No thank you.
Moonsorrow wrote: »Here's another problem. Healing Ward and Regen currently uncloak you. So you believe ZOS will catch that one and adjust it? Or you're telling me I have to find a rock to hide behind so I can cast my healing out of sight, wait for 8 seconds, then reenter the fight? All the while stamblades can Rally, because that does not uncloak you? What if I want to top off resources with Meditate for a second? What if I want to use Purge to clean off sorc curses and the like? I have to wait 8 seconds to reenter cloak? No thank you.
This so much.
And to the OP, leave my Cloak alone.
To quote someone legendary: "Stop ruining my playstyle!"
In fact i think Cloak should be BUFFED.
There. I said it. Make it cost more (for obvious reasons) but give it 1 more second on duration.
Also, since NB fear is now worse than universal Fear Evil skill that anyone can use.. give our Fear either Minor Breach & Fracture.. or.. make it give us 6 seconds of Minor Evasion. *dreamy eyes*
Dark cloak used to be exactly like that:MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »